mimip

Is it worth the upgrade to eat at Blu

7 minutes ago, Big Tiger Fan said:

I apologize for the last post. I just saw the posted warning about political statements. The Devil made me do it and I did not resist as I should have.

I won’t do it again...on CC.
 

😂🤣😅😆

52 minutes ago, Big Tiger Fan said:

Well, folks. We can always do what our Beloved Leader says and stop testing so many people. That way the number of people testing positive will drop. 
Problem solved!!

🙀

😷💕

Thankfully the fit to travel letter is no longer required.

12 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Absolutely correct.  But along with rights come responsibilities.  Posting false information such as Princess or the CDC requiring 'Fit to Sail' letters and other misinformation as 'facts' is worse than not being helpful.

I was the one who discussed “Fit to Sail” letters but specifically said that they were a requirement of Celebrity, Royal Caribbean and Norwegian.  Never did I see it in reference to Princess.

When searching for information on this topic, I was directed to this site.  It has been very helpful, even though I am not booked on Princess.  So very sorry.

6 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

You're writing on a Princess Forum.  If you're posting information about Celebrity on this forum, you're creating some confusion as some of what you are posting here doesn't apply to the readers of this forum.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky to you, I'm just asking that you be a little more selective as to the information you post for us Princess cruisers.  🙂 

Two forums were merged, so this is not just a Princess forum.

8 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Is your Alaska cruise on Princess?  Princess has not issued any 70+ letter requirement and the new CDC order is very specific as to what conditions will need to be met.  70+ letter was not one of the conditions required by the Federal Government.  If Princess cancels the cruise, then you will be entitled to a refund of the deposit.  It was only non-refundable if you cancelled the cruise before Princess does.

8 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

No, we are on Celebrity, which requires this letter, downloaded from their site.  Norwegian has one too, but it is not so detailed.  I have spoken to Celebrity and have been told they do not know how long their requirement will last.  And no, the CDC did not order this.  It was the cruise line that put it in place.

2 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

mimip;  with all that's happening in the world;  we are about to see a lot of things we think unfair.  We are about to enter into the new normal.  What will it look like?  No one can tell right now.  The entire travel industry is going to go thru a full makeover

Yes, many people are just struggling to eat and keep a roof over their heads.  So this is minor in the scheme of things.

2 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

mimip;  do the math.  Apr 9 was the order; add 100 days.  That would take us to July 17th.  

Sorry.  Had only seen the 100 days, not the whole CDC order with starting date.

We are booked July 31st to Alaska.  Our deposit is nonrefundable (something I neglected to make note of).  We can apply it to FCC.  However, if the 70+ doctor’s letter is still required, we will not be able to use it as my husband is 70 with has well controlled diabetes.  That doesn’t seem fair. 

2 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

The CDC issued an order that cruise ships are suspended through July.  So don't see anyone going anywhere this summer. 

Through July what?

On 4/11/2020 at 11:47 PM, npcl said:

I do not recall seeing any about the age restrictions in the document coming from the CDC. Though there is nothing that prevents the CLIA from including it in their plan

See post #490...

7 hours ago, npcl said:

I do not recall seeing any about the age restrictions in the document coming from the CDC. Though there is nothing that prevents the CLIA from including it in their plan

See post #490...

5 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Right, I've seen them but does anyone know if the government is making the form a requirement?

The government is requiring the cruise lines to come up with some safeguards.  The letter for those 70+ is one that some of the lines have instituted.  I can’t find out how long this requirement will last.  If it is permanent, many of us will not be cruising.  I have no issues but my husband has diabetes.  We have three cruises booked in 2020, and our March one was cancelled (thankful for that).

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I haven't read the entire CDC order.  Does anyone know if it even references fit to sail documents for PAX 70 and above?

I found Celebrity’s form on their website.  Norwegian also has their form posted.

46 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

Hi, I'm Little Dave and I'm 5 years old.  My dad, Big Dave, tells me that cruising is great fun -- but only if you're old enough.  Some cruise lines don't even allow toddlers like me -- that's unfair!  And I don't get to drink what my dad calls the "hard stuff" -- that's discrimination!  I'm so angry, I would file a lawsuit -- if I only knew what that was.

😂🤣😅😆

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Age makes those health conditions worse.

The fact that some think this is age discrimination does not mean the courts will agree.  The commonly applied definition is the one by the EEOC.  

Not necessarily.  And apparently you haven’t been keeping up with the statistics.  Younger people are getting Covid 19 AND dying in greater numbers now.  

33 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You left out the good part.  From the EEOC website:  "An employment policy or practice that applies to everyone, regardless of age, can be illegal if it has a negative impact on applicants or employees age 40 or older and is not based on a reasonable factor other than age (RFOA)."

 

For an action to be considered 'age discrimination' you must prove it was not 'based on a reasonable factor other than age."  It is easy to argue that since age is a very significant factor in who gets the coronavirus and the health outcomes of the virus that these reasonable factors exist.  The proposed policy does not state that no one over seventy can cruise.  That would clearly be age discrimination.   It states that those over seventy with certain comorbidities, ie, reasonable factors, must have a doctor's statement that they are 'fit to cruise'.

Again, you are referring to employment which has nothing to do with our discussion.  
And it has now been found that it is the health condition, not the age that seems to be an issue with Covid 19. 😷

20 minutes ago, nini said:

 

"Age discrimination is the result of actions taken to deny or limit opportunities to people on the basis of age. These are usually actions taken as a result of one's ageist beliefs and attitudes. Age discrimination occurs on both a personal and institutional level."

 

This one is from LAW.Com and their legal dictionary.

discrimination

n. unequal treatment of persons, for a reason which has nothing to do with legal rights or ability. Federal and state laws prohibit discrimination in employment, availability of housing, rates of pay, right to promotion, educational opportunity, civil rights, and use of facilities based on race, nationality, creed, color, age, sex or sexual orientation. The rights to protest discrimination or enforce one's rights to equal treatment are provided in various federal and state laws, which allow for private lawsuits with the right to damages. There are also federal and state commissions to investigate and enforce equal rights.

 

👍🏻 That works!

17 minutes ago, Potstech said:

Maybe some day an actual Civil Rights lawyer will post hereto explain the law.

👍👍👍

29 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If  you want to claim that this is illegal discrimination, then the EEOC definition is the important one.  Any claim of age discrimination would have to pass muster with the EEOC.  Without the EEOC, your case would face a very large hurdle in the courts.

Thanks for the correction:  My dictionary suggested a misspelling of comorbidity:  "In medicine, comorbidity is the presence of one or more additional conditions co-occurring with a primary condition; in the countable sense of the term, a comorbidity is each additional condition. The additional condition may also be a behavioral or mental disorder." Wikipedia.  I think my misspelling was close enough for the meaning to be apparent.  

Obviously, it wasn’t.  That’s why I researched it and couldn’t find it.  Now, since all cruises are cancelled for another hundred days (effective today), I have plane tickets, hotels and a cruise to cancel!  Over and out!

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Fairness isn't the issue.  Whether there is a rationale reason to treat some differently is the issue.

At this time, more people of color and younger people are being affected.  So where is your rationale that excluding those over 70 with controlled issues is not discrimination.  And if you google discrimination there are other meanings besides those expressed by the EEOC.  We are not talking employment.  And what are cormordalities?  It didn’t show up in my dictionary.

5 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Are you saying that those states that do require an eye test after a certain age are age discriminatory?

Since these letters do apply to both blacks and males as well as white females, your hypothetical questions are irrelevant.

This hypothetical statement is not irrelevant.  It is just pointing out how unfair it would be to discriminate on sex and race when deciding who needs this “letter”.

I am very familiar with the definition of age discrimination!  Are you?