jackinbox

About the only new requirement that I would be OK with is the vaccine passport.  Everything else needs to be like it was pre-COVID.  That includes masks need to be optional.

I would advise making reservations for ATD. We just got off the Regal on Sunday and the first two nights were a disaster. We waited almost an hour to get a pager, then another 30 minutes once we had the pager. After the first two nights, everything was normal (5-10 minute wait). I'm not sure if this was just an anomaly, but we've never experienced anything like this before.

And raucous in the theater, no control of children & teens--even openly GIVING teens wine. (No I'm not the booze police, but the staff turned a blind eye too.)

The legal drinking age in Italy is 16 and it is customary for wine to be served at dinner to those even younger than 16. It's just a culture difference. They don't have the same puritanical view on alcohol over there.

Not sure they would change their flight from FLL to MIA. MIA is always more expensive to fly in & out of thatn FLL. At least it is when we fly from Detroit to either one.

Well, he did say that he works for a competing airline in the department that handles schedule changes. My guess is that he knows what he is talking about.

 

:D

Jacksonville has the same bridge issue.

But they only have one major cruise line.....Carnival. Tampa has four. If Carnival were the only line cruising out of Tampa, I'd say it would be far more difficult to make a case for doing something about the imminent problem. Jacksonville would be another Mobile if Carnival pulled out of there.

 

Mobile was a reaction to the post 9-11 fallout with people afraid to fly. It was primarily a drive to port drawing from FL, AL TN and GA. It had about a 7 million population base to draw from. The airport is pitiful though, and once flying came back into favor with the traveling public, Mobile's case as a drive to port was over. Tampa will continue to lose ships as the smaller ones retire and infrastructure beats the hell out of desire.

That's an interesting take and make a lot of sense.

 

The issue here in Tampa isn't with Carnival it's with the bridge and the various options that the Port of Tampa must address and correct so as to allow any future "mega" ships from calling the port home when smaller / midsize ships are no longer afloat.

Exactly. If anything, Carnival is far less affected by this than RCCL as they have gone gangbusters with building megaships and retiring the smaller ones. Carnival is doing so as well, but not on the scale as RCCL

 

After all, they built a good bridge, but why did the cruise lines then build ships that they knew could not fit under it?

I don't think the cruise lines are going to pattern their business model (which nowadays is bigger ships = higher yield) on the logistics of a single port. The cruise lines want to be in Tampa Bay, but the financial rewards of the megaships far outweigh the revenue that would be lost by not being able to sail from Tampa any longer.

 

Why is that local cities / states always have to be the sole providers of money in order to support cruise lines registered / incorporated in foreign countries? So you can have a nice cruise on the latest and greatest?

They aren't asking for money. They are simply saying "We're building bigger ships now and retiring the smaller one. We want to be in Tampa Bay. We hope you'll have a place available for us to dock."

 

I suppose you think that they should never have expanded the runways at TPA to accommodate jetliners several decades ago. Why would the airlines build these big jetliners that couldn't land at Drew Field?

 

What if one of these foreign cruise lines built a ship that could not fit under the Verrazano Narrows bridge in New York? Should the Port Authority of NY/NJ tear down the bridge and build a new one for several billion$ just so "Behemoth of the Seas" can get under it and you can enjoy the ship's new ski slope and mountain climbing range?

The Port Authority of NY/NJ expanded the pier size at the Brooklyn Terminal a few years back to accommodate the Queen Mary 2. Should they not have done that?

 

Besides, you are comparing apples and oranges. Cruise lines NEED to be in the NYC market. They don't NEED Tampa. They want to be in Tampa, but they don't need to be.

 

And you think you can snap your fingers and rebuild one of the largest bridges in the state, eh?

No, I'm advocating for building a new terminal with a couple of piers West of the Skyway.

As Mobile and then Baltimore (for a while) found out.

 

Based on Carnival's record of pulling out of home ports, much thought needs to be put into this.

Mobile is a completely different situation for several reasons.....

 

1. It was too close to New Orleans.

 

2. Very little local population base to build from.

 

Tampa Bay Metro Population: 2,870,569

Mobile, Alabama Metro Population: 414,079

 

3. It was only served by Carnival. Tampa has Carnival, RCCL, NCL and Holland America. This obviously indicates there is a demand for cruises out of the Tampa Bay area. Mobile was a case where demand was never really proven. It was more of an experiment that failed.

Building bigger ship presents a problem at many ports in the Caribbean.

So far, that's only an issue for RCCL's Oasis and Allure. I'm not aware of any others. There are no issues with any of Carnival's mega-ships. The Dream, Magic and Breeze seem to be able to dock anywhere. NCL's Epic can certainly dock all over the Western Caribbean.

 

Plus, lots of cruisers prefer small to medium sized ships. I thought the Legend was the perfect size for Tampa.

There may be some passengers who prefer that, but ships the size of the Miracle aren't being built anymore. Even Holland America (who has long focused on small ships) has a new ship coming onboard in February of 2016 that most likely is too large for Port Tampa.

 

Here is a quote from HAL CEO Stein Kruse:

 

"It will be a large ship, but still an intimate ship. The bigger you get, the costs come down. We are a premium company and we need to drive a premium yield. We want to balance the benefits of building a bigger ship with the customer experience."

 

When speaking about why Seabourn (which Kruse is also the CEO of) was dumping smaller ships in favor of larger ones:

 

The brand disparity between the smaller ships and the Odyssey class ships was becoming very apparent. We'd have people going from the smaller ships to the larger ones, but not the other way round.”

 

Link

 

I'm sure there were customers who thought the Fantasy Class ships were too big when they were first introduced. Some may have thought the Jubilee was the perfect size. Whether they were right or wrong, those days are long gone. The same will eventually happen with Fantasy and Spirit class. It may be a ways off, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that neither Carnival or RCCL have built a ship small enough for Tampa in the last 10 years. There also isn't a single cruise ship currently on order from Carnival, RCCL, NCL, Princess, or Celebrity that will fit under the Skyway. Good or bad, that is the reality of the situation.

 

Hate to say it, but the Paradise is in Tampa now. She and the Inspiration switched home ports. I expect the Paradise until 2017-2018 out of Tampa.

Right, I forgot about that.

 

Sadly, a big part of the problem is also local politics. The Tampa Bay Area does not work/play well together. A new port on the western side would require St Pete, Pinellas County, Hillsborough County and the port authorities to all come together and act together. Sadly, this is very unlikely given the competing interests.

 

For a comparison, look how much in-fighting there is regarding where the Rays play and potential new sites.

 

Even if the sides were to come together, there are still tremendous environmental and logistical obstacles to overcome.

 

That said, hope a solution is found.

Agreed. I could care less which county owns the land that they put it on, but it needs to be West of the Skyway. Getting into a tug-of-war over bragging rights is only going to ensure that both counties will lose in the long run.

 

The sad thing is there are 4 major cruise lines wanting to keep sailing from the Tampa Bay area and doing nothing is only going to make certain that they will leave.

 

For an unknown reason, only a handful of Tampa based ships ever have Key West on their itinerary, an area ridiculously difficult and expensive to visit from here.

There are a limited number of ships allowed there and many of the residents are fighting to keep any more from coming in. It's been a huge controversy for a few years now.

 

A fair amount of locals, myself included have less than zero interest on visiting anywhere in Mexico, or the assorted Central American countries where either its often too tough to tender, or the locals (well, the ones who stayed behind and havent yet crossed into Arizona and California) would cut your heart out.

Well, that pretty much leaves Grand Cayman as your only port that's reachable from Tampa on a 7-day cruise.

 

We are tinkering with the idea of having our grown kids and their spouses or signficant others join us on a five day out of Canaveral, but if the prices keep escalating, even by Carnival's lower numbers, we may be landlocked for awhile.

I don't expect you're going to see prices continue to be this low in the foreseeable future. I'm finding deals that in many cases are lower than I've seen in years.

To me that would require some kind of "drawbridge" option on either the northern or southern approaches that do not affect the center span and keep the port in Tampa and close® to the airport rather than moving it to the coast some 45 minutes from the airport.

I don't think the distance from the airport is a problem. As I said in a different thread, it's 28 minutes from TPA to Tierra Verde and the Howard Frankland is rarely bad on Saturdays or Sundays. I doubt the distance from Orlando keeps people from cruising Port Canaveral. Pinellas just makes the most sense logistically. There's several other issues too. The fog in the bay is a problem at times. Plus, if they're going to do something, they need to think far in the future. Someday the port in Havana is going to open up to American ships. It would be helpful to get rid of the 3+ hours each way of extra time it takes for a ship to go all the way in and out of Tampa. 6-7 hours per cruise means more fuel usage as well.

 

Either way this is something that MUST be done or the cruise port will dry up. :eek:

I agree.

 

I am afraid that many of the options would take years to implement - assuming the politicians acted promptly. I think a better solution would be for Carnival to build another Spirit class ship. Many people like this class of ship, and I think that the big mega-ships have been over-produced. A smaller brand new Spirit class ship would be a great addition to Tampa and/or Baltimore.

I don't think there's any sign that any of the major lines are going to be building small ships anymore. The survival of a port in the Tampa Bay area is not just going to depend on Carnival. Royal and NCL are building ships as big as they can build them. Newer Princess and Celebrity ships are getting bigger. Even Holland America is starting to get bigger. Bigger is the trend and I'm sure it's all about money. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a new ship built from one of the majors that will fit under the Skyway. I'd put money on it.

 

There's still time as these smaller ships will be around for a few more years, but the clock is indeed ticking. Do you really think the Inspiration is still going to be sailing in another 10-15 years?

 

There are plenty of people (like me) who prefer smaller ships, and having one or two or even three of these, might draw a certain clientele, who either live in the area, or like to travel to the area and combine a land vaca with a cruise vacation.

If any line is going to cater to those customers, it'll be Holland America. But even they are building bigger ships. The port needs more than that. It'll end up resembling the St. Pete airport if all the big guys pull out.

A "Port of Pinellas" would be great however it just seems a bit far from "the" major airport (TPA)

A little bit. It's roughly 30 minutes from the Tampa Airport to Tierra Verde via the Bayway. It'll take a little longer during rush hour, but it's still much closer than:

 

Orlando International Airport >> Port Canaveral

Houston Intercontinental Airport >> Port Of Galveston

Los Angeles International >> Port Of Long Beach

BWI Airport >> Baltimore Cruise Port

 

and of course just where to build it is yet another issue altogether.

I thought they had a location picked out in Tierra Verde. I remember reading the article in the Times, but that's been several months ago. Perhaps it was just a general location.

an alternate port beyond the Skyway

That's the ideal way to deal with the problem. The proposed port in Pinellas would not only bring in the bigger ships, but it would also provide an ideal stop for ships out of Galveston, New Orleans, etc. There's just not much to do in downtown Tampa. The Channelside Shops and the Aquarium are about it. Building a new port over in Tierra Verde would provide close access the beach at Pass-A-Grille, Ft. De Soto, St. Pete Beach, John's Pass, etc.

 

It would also eliminate the problem of the random days where the ships can't come into the bay due to the fog in addition to reducing travel time by about 3 hours in each direction.

 

Whether or not it gets built, who knows? Instead of working together, the two sides of the bay have a history of fighting over everything. I'm sure the city of Tampa would fight a Pinellas port kicking and screaming.

By all means do not waste the money.

 

In the extremely unlikely circumstance that someone needs to go to the hospital (or a similar emergency), the U.S. Consulate will issue you a one-time "Emergency Limited-Validity Passport". These are usually issued the same day. It costs the same and when you get back home you can apply for a regular passport at no additional charge.

 

I just don't see wasting that kind of money on something that really is just going to amount to $355 in souvenirs.

 

The passport cheerleaders on this board got all excited when Carnival had to fly all of their passengers home from St. Maarten (I think this was on the Dream). People were claiming how all those stupid people without passports were going to be stuck in St. Maarten for days while they had to obtain one. Guess what? They all got to fly home just the same as the passport holders did. For many years around here, it was speculated that if an incident such as this were to occur, those without passports would be seriously inconvenienced. They weren't.

 

From Carnival's own Q&A on their website regarding this incident:

 

Q: What are you doing to help passengers without passports?

 

A: We have already addressed this issue with the relevant authorities and the guests will not have an issue traveling without passports.

 

I would take that $355 and spend it on something worthwhile.

We heard all sorts of bad things about Jamaica but loved Montego Bay. I'm hoping to do Ocho Rios someday and try the falls.