bjlaac

Does anyone know the time, cost and best way to get from Amtrak south station to the cruise port?

Never done it, so any insight would be appreciated

8 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

First, "emerald on NCL"? Sorry, but there is no such thing as "emerald on NCL", and even if there were, it likely wouldn't be relevant to your question.

 

Second, "cruising routinely but just not on NCL" actually IS relevant to your question. It is, of course, a business, and must cater to the supply and demand of the market. When people choose "not on NCL", the demand goes down and the line leaves for greener pastures. Thus you lose the option to cruise them from that port.

 

In short, NCL can make $x by sailing out of NY in the winter, and $y by sailing elsewhere in the winter. Obviously, in this case, $y > $x.

Good catch on Emerald, actually Sapphire, I always mix those stones up, must be my old age LOL  I already said it wasn't relevant. 

We take lots of cruises on lots of different lines so to say by "us" not sailing on NCL has contributed the drop off in bookings is silly.  All of the cruise lines had reduced bookings and only NCL couldn't make NY work? If its because of reduced bookings then there are lots of people bailing on the brand in NY.  I already could see there was a reduction in NY choices and was just trying to find out if there was an official word from NCL on their strategy.

We were on NCL twice in 2023 and the ships were basically full with all the available sailing dates last  year so the reduction makes no sense.

I guess its just best to keep an eye opened but for those of us who book a year in advance, 2024 is shaping up to year we bypass NCL altogether which is unfortunate.

We are emerald on NCL but since the start of covid in 2019 have just started to sail on NCL again in 2023.  We have been cruising routinely but just not on NCL for a number of reasons which are irrelevant to my question.  Typically we sail in the winter months, December through February out of New York.  We were going to book cruises for 2025 and noticed that except for a cruise here and there, NCL has no routine sailings during the winter from NY, the same holds true for 2026.

Gone are the routine 10 day cruises in December, January February and March and the same holds true for 2026.

MSC and RCCL seem to have a thriving NY winter business  yet NCL is disappearing, anyone know what's going on?

We have been on lots of cruises over the years, close to 100 in actuality.  Gratuities/tips have morphed considerably over the decades and from my perspective not in a good way.  Whatever side of the discussion you are on is irrelevant, there is on right or wrong answer.  Removing them does not make you a cheapskate and leaving them on does not make you a blind fool following the company's sob story.

We generally leave them on but don't hesitate to remove them either if warranted, and to answer some questions, no, service is not different, there is no list singling you out , the staff treats you the same no matter what.you choose to do.

However, we have reached the spill over point with reductions in food quality and room service and never ending increases in gratuities and we are changing our MO.  From now on all prepaid gratuities will be removed and we will tip accordingly to those that actually serve us.  I expect those amounts to be equal to the prepaid amounts that go to the cabin stewards, waiters, and assistants.  No we don't tip the laundry or any other behind the scenes workers.  

The cruise line made the their labor deals and its up to them to keep their employees happy and paid.  Tips need to be earned so by my definition they should never be prepaid even though I went along with that concept for a long time.

Its been a few years since we sailed NCL but will be onboard in a few weeks.  It has always been our habit to purchase two Cruise Next certificates ($500) every time we sail.  The last time we did we received the two certificates and $250 onboard credit for the purchase of the certificates.  Typically we would use that $250 onboard credit and add another $250 to pay for the $500 cost.

I thought I read somewhere over the past year or so that NCL has stopped allowing the use of that onboard credit to pay for the $500 cruise next certificates.  This resulted in a new $500 charge onboard as well as $250 onboard credit that must be used for something else before disembarking.

Is that correct or did I mis read something?

12 hours ago, fizzywm said:

Yes, like server jobs in restaurants can be competitive once the tips are factored in.

 

I'll give an example:

The basic wage per ILO is $653 per month.

Maybe that is competitive in the Philippines per the post earlier in this thread.

Most of my room stewards on past cruises were Indonesian.

 

The median salary in Indonesia is around $669/mo according to many sources including this one: https://www.salaryexplorer.com/average-salary-wage-comparison-indonesia-c101

 

Do you really think that's competitive for someone working overseas 7 days a week for 6 months? Of course it's not. The tips are what make the job pay competitively just like restaurant pay in the US.

According to this source https://worldsalaries.com/average-hotel-staff-salary-in-indonesia/

a waiter with 1 to 3 years experience in indonesia earns a salary ad bonus of $478/month with the average waiter earning $605/month, both below the the $653 cruise line salaries before tips.

An entry level hotel worker earns $128/month with an average hotel worker earning $271/month.  Well below what the $653/month cruise salary affords before any gratuities are added.

So no, they are not underpaid except in the minds of those falling for RCCL and any other cruise line sob stories.

Its a game to extract as much dollars as they can folks....nothing more.

So if you want to tip above the gratuities go ahead, if you want to remove them and tip in cash fine, heck...even if you remove everything and tip nothing the crew is not being stiffed

14 hours ago, Wolf 8 said:

I also think folding gratuities into the fare is the best answer.  It weeds out the crowd who stiff the crew and that alone will enhance the onboard atmosphere for both crew and guests.  We would still have the power to report really bad service (and if it's not made right, go elsewhere next time) and, of course give cash tips for excellence.

As someone on the other side of your position I respectfully disagree with rolling tips into the fare as it no longer becomes gratuities that are earned.  For over 30 years we paid prepaid tips on cruise ship and always added extra too.  Its the constant increases year in and year out and the BS about tipping behind the scenes that have crossed the line.  I never bought into that concept but let it slide as the changes were often just 50 cents or so.

Just look at the previous info posted here, if minimum cruise wages are going up $8 per month ($658 to $666), that represents a 1.2% increase, yet the $2 increase in gratuities from $16 to $18 represents a 12.5% increase, where's the justification in that?

Its out of control and rolling up these fees into the fares just hide little tidbits of info like this. 

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Lots of misleading or incorrect o formation here. 
GUARANTEED MINIMUM wage for a crew member is  $658 per month (going to $666 on Jan 1)  The cre gets this amount regardless of tips. 

288 hours is the MAXIMUM that can be worked in a month, as governed by international law (not 360)

 

Using the Philippines as an example, since they are one of the highest ethnicities represented on cruise ships; the average salary for a job such as housekeeping is $175 USD per month. Median salary in the Philippines is USD $308. 

The guaranteed minimum on the ship is over DOUBLE what could be made at home (and working similar hours). I suppose that is why you run into so many crew members that spend decades working on the ships. 

 

Stop making it sound like the crew is being  taken advantage of or not compensated fairly. Stop viewing the financials of the crew through a North American or Western European eye. 
 

I will tip, in cash, those that I interact with directly. Those “behind-the-scenes” people are doing just fine, and do not, in my opinion, warrant a gratuity from me.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head here with why those of us pushing back on the auto gratuities and never ending increases don't want to play anymore.  Yet it goes beyond culture and and the financial circumstances of each crew member.  RCCL, as well as the other cruise lines, are playing us all for sentimental fools.  They've got us believing we need to compensate the poor disadvantaged crew members who are making double the average salary in their own country, get free room and board and the only expense other than personal items is internet.

I've already shown in an earlier post that the auto tips, if you pay them, is 30% of the the normal vacation expenses that by US standards would be subject to the typical 18% to 20% tip rate in the United States.  In addition, that also includes the many areas (i.e behind the scenes) that no one in their right mind would tip anywhere else besides a cruise ship and if removed, the 30% would be that much higher.

So folks, do what your wish, after all its your money, but its mine too and after 30+ years of paying the auto tips and more I've said no more.  From now on, I'll be removing every auto gratuity charge and tipping directly those who serve me, if earned, and not what RCL or NCL or Carnival tells me to, but what is warranted based on service.

20 hours ago, skittl1321 said:

So even he doesn't know, which means he isn't reporting it.

Yeah, the calls get recorded; but the supervisors aren't listening to every single call to see what feedback was provided. So if the call representative isn't classifying and filing feedback, it's going nowhere.

And even when they do, it's often just 'noted'.  

Often there is a threshold of x% of calls are complaints about a single issue that a company then starts trying to figure out how to deal with that issue.  But often that is just better messaging around it, not fixing anything.

As someone who managed a large call center in the NY/NJ/CT area I can tell you exactly how those recorded calls are handled in the system.  Yes, every call is recorded in most robust systems and none of them are ever listened to unless there's a serious issue/complaint against the CSR (Customer Service Rep), the CSR is new and the manager is evaluating the employee or oversight teams are randomly listening in on live calls.

All CSRs end a call with a wrap code meaning they choose from a list of 20 codes in order for management to have daily/weekly/monthly list of why folks are calling.  That list is only as good as the CSR as sloppy reps will use the same 2 or 3 codes for every call regardless of the callers original issue.  Unless a particular category moves drastically, the list is rather useless in identifying a specific issue.  For instance, even if coded correctly 100% of the time, if RCL just raised gratuities and the codes about gratuities call up substantially, management will put the two pieces of information together and shrug it off as expected.

23 hours ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

You raise a pertinent question: "Who in the 'other' gets that money?" It represents quite a large percentage of the charges. 

 

Similar to New Jersey State when they say a new tax or fee is "going into the general coffers."

 

The General Coffers is a euphemistic black hole that lacks any specific reason except for the politicians to go to it for their pet projects.

Yeah, here in CT they call it the rainy day fund and its always raining for stupid projects 😄

I don't doubt if the list is authentic, but does it really tell you anything more than you already know?  Stewards and waitors were always getting a piece but over 40% is listed as other.  When other is the biggest category it definately looks like they are trying to hide something and whether its people you wouldn't normally tip or a cash grab by RCCL it makes no difference, its not money I'm willing to continue paying.

11 hours ago, bonsai3s said:

Went to GS before dinner tonight (Symphony) and asked for a copy of the current tip breakdown.

 

 

Late to this conversation but I've been involved in others for many years like most of you.  We've for the most part paid the daily gratuities plus some extra on most of our cruises for years.  As I've stated before, we remember when it was recommended amounts per waiter, steward and bus boy and handed cash to each of them.  Then the cruise lines started collecting those amounts via daily services charges which you opted in if you wished and they would provide vouchers you actually handed to the stewards and waiters with extra cash if you were so inclined.  If they left it that way it would have been fine.

Then the mumbo jumbo started predicated with an increase in the daily  service charge and the sob story of its not only the waiters and stewards but laundry and behind the scenes workers too so there's no need to hand these vouchers back to the stewards and waiters as RCL will distribute accordingly.  This coupled with no breakdown of where these monies go with the never ending increases just about every year has led us to today's discussions.

I for one believe these charges are out of hand already, before the latest scheduled increase, and with a little analysis came up with some interesting numbers.  In 2022, RCCL onboard payroll was $1.3 billion which should include every person from the captain to the waiter, bus boy, bar service, laundry, officers etc..  The total cost of food was $0.6 billion which I might point out includes the specialty restaurant foods.  That totals $1.9 billion dollars of expenses where gratuities would normally be calculated even though its ectremely the high end as I've already mentioned it includes people you would not normally tip (Captain, Engineers) or expenses that have another stream of gratuity revenue such as the booze plan and specialty venues. 

Take a standard 20% gratuity on the $1.9 billion and you get $380 million in service fees.  In 2022, RCCL had 5.5 million passengers who took a total of 35.1 million days at sea, they sailed at 85.1% capacity.  Divide the $380 million by the 35.1 million sea days and the daily service charge should be around $11 per person per night at a 20% tip rate.

All of these numbers are in the annual report and as you can see, the daily service charge at $16 is already at a 30% rate even before backing out people you would not normally tip or expenses that have additional gratuities built in already.

I started this thread because while we all knew prices were increasing I'm not sure any of us are seeing the overall RCL picture.  There have been lots of reply's here with great information.  Some seeing increases and other decreases which is great to see. Like most of you, I can only speak or post on trips I've booked, or interested in booking, and we are getting priced out, at least with RCL.

Now you can never really compare cruise lines because they off different things that might be gold to me and crap to others,  but generally speaking, RCL, NCL, Hal and even Carnival are similar mainstream cruise lines.  We generally sail out of NY/NJ on longer cruises and since we've been to just about every Island south of NY and could care less about itinerary.  We are loyal to no one cruise line, have over 100 sailing days on multiple lines and just like being at sea. 

We moved over to RCL exclusively just as the pandemic was ending mostly because the menus on RCL far exceeded NCL and have been sailing 3 and 4 times a year with them.  Then with the recent menu changes last January (we hated it), gave NCL a try and discovered the pendulum on food has swung back int their favor in our opinion.  We still sail RCL as we like the solarium for the winter cruises so RCL has its pluses too.

So what's my point about pricing?  Try booking a winter cruise in January 2024 on either line out of NY or NJ and you will find a 10 Getaway sailing on NCL and an 11 say sailing on RCL  The cheapest NCL pick you own cabin balcony for 3 is $4,225 which includes their booze plan, remove the booze plan and free dining offers and that drops to $3,531.  Thesame comparable cabin on the anthem is just under $5,000 and includes nothing but port taxes.  So on a per night basis RCL $454 per night compared to NCL's $353 ($422 with booze) per night.

Something is just not right with RCL pricing in this partof the world.  Whether it be excess vouchers or pent up demand, I don't know but there are other options that folks like me will be exercising.

ps: I chose 3 person Balcony cabin example because we have the same cruise booked in December on the getaway out of NY for 3.

We usually book 6 months to a year in advance and currently have 3 cruises booked.  Started to look into next year and the prices are nuts.  The January 2024 Anthem sailings, only 3 months away, are between $1,483 and $1,550  per person (including Taxes) for a sail away interior cabin depending which of the 11 day cruises you choose   Add taxes and the range becomes $1,691 and $1,795.  If you want to pick your cabin that adds another $143pp making an interior cabin for two totaling between $3,668 and $3,876.  Six or so months ago we booked two of those cruise, picking our own interior stateroom for $2,122 and $2,060, respectively.  That's 70% to 75% increase depending on the 11 day cruise.

So I thought to look further into the future to January 2025 when the odyssey replaces anthem thinking booking earlier will generate better pricing.  For the first two 11 nighter's price are basically the same, maybe a little higher, however, the January 27th sailing is beyond ridiculous. It becomes an 12 nighter and comes in at $5,379 for a sail away interior cabin and balconies over $10,000 for 2.  What the heck is going on?

I know prices are going up but at this rate I might never sail again. 

We learned a lesson on our very first cruise which happened to be on Holland America.  This was late 70's early 80's for a reference.  At that time Holland America advertised with the slogan to the effect of "no tipping policy", your cruise fare was all inclusive.  Being a novice at the time, we did not tip any of the waiters or stewards on that cruise and when we disembarked, could not find our luggage.

After 30 minutes or so, a long shoreman helped us find our luggage which was tucked in a corner with all of the identiying tags "missing".  Naively we asked what happened and he responded did you remeber to tip the stewards and waitors?  After replying its a no tipping cruiseline, he looked at us as if we each had teo heads.  Now we never really knew for sure what happened but from then on we always tipped accordingly.

I bring it up because while the idea that rolling up gratuities into the fare makes sense on some level, it does not always result in the desired objective.  Like Holland America learned back then, the staff eventually "forgets" they are automatically being tipped and eventually expects more.  Holland America eventually had to abandon that no tipping policy.

I suspect if the lines did in fact roll that up in the fare we would be back to the crew expecting more.  Just think of your last raise, great feeling for all of one week before you are looking for the next one.  It"s the same with the crew and it doesn't help the cruise line constantly bombard you with tipping "extra" for good service througjout the voyage.

I don't know what the answer is, but perhaps its somewhere inbetween. 

12 hours ago, RD64 said:

Agreed - the cruise lines don’t want the loyal customers. They would prefer to fill their ships with new cruisers.

 

The loyal cruisers can be the most demanding and expect every free perk possible - they want their free laundry, access to loyalty lounges, their free drink coupons. People on these boards take pride in getting on a ship and not spending a dime.

 

I recently met a couple that were doing their  third cruise to Alaska this year - they openly boasted about the fact that they had no extra charges. Their biggest beef was that they would have to do one more cruise before they reached the loyalty level for free laundry. 
 

The cruise lines want passengers who will purchase shore excursions, shop in the shops, buy the drink and specialty dining packages, go all out at Coco Cay, use the Internet etc. These are the true profit centres for the cruise lines. The fact that they can also charge high rates is just icing on the cake.

Of course the cruise lines want exactly what you describe that's the nature of business..maximize profits!.  However if you sail often enough you quickly realize the repeat cruiser is at half of the ship's customers and they tend to be older folks with the time and money (with some limitations) to take multiple annual trips.

At some price point  those repeaters just aren't going to return if they perceive the cost unjustifiable.  Take me for instance, travel 3 or 4 times a year, mostly in an inside cabin and an occasional balcony.  Depending on the length of cruise the inside run between $2,000 and $2,500 and a balcony $3,000 or more if we take our son with us.  Overall we spend $10,000 annually on cruise fares for the 4 trips. 

Fast forward to 2025 bookings and one of the two cruises we normally would book is over $5,000 for an inside cabin for two people.  At that price point, more than double the current rates we are paying, we will not book any cruises in 2025. 

Is that sustainable, I'm not sure, but a lot of the 50% of the customers that are repeaters feel the exact same way.  Either they are moving to different cruise lines or not sailing at all.   To make up for our loss, RCL now needs to find 4 first time cruiser willing to pay those rates, and if they are "free Spenders", they will be expecting access to specialty restaurants, beach beds at coco cay and many more capacity that just dones not exist if the ship is full of first time cruiser.

Prices are completely nuts, not sure what RCL is trying to accomplish but seems they are on the wrong path.  Because of the prices we only have 2 cruises we previously booked this past May.  They are both 11 nights on the anthem in January.2024.  Both cruises are priced almost identical at $2,100 for and interior, all inclusive of taxes and port fees.  This morning, a new booking would be $3,100 for one and $2,800 for the other.

Then to make matters worse, the January 29th cruise, if you wanted to book it in 2025 where its a 12 night on the Odyssey (replaces Anthem in 2025) its over $5,000 for an interior cabin.

This is really getting out of control and they are pricing out loyal customers.

On 8/28/2023 at 8:02 PM, vision14k said:

I get it, but at the end of the day they’re a business and it’s only about making money.  They really don’t care about any of us.  When demand drops, so will the prices.  Until then, while people pay the high prices, they will remain high.  They offer a “perceived by some” superior product that people are apparently willing to pay for and that likely won’t change.

I use to think that way too...vote with your wallet and eventually the cruise lines will learn their lesson, but the truth is they rarely, if ever, reverse the changes they make.  As booked as these ships are over half of the passengers on every cruise I've been on (and I've been on close to 100) are first timers.  Their starting perspective is a lot different than a seasoned cruiser. To them paid specialties or one day cabin service or $1.50 ice cream in the windjammer is the norm, so when the cruise line makes a change that seems ridiculous its shrugged off as no big deal.

To me, and a lot of folks on these boards, I really question the value of a cruise these days.  We have two booked in January but nothing after that.  For us, the turning point was the menu changes last January and now coupled with less cabin service and charges for simple ice cream in the windjammer is pushing us away, at least from RCL.

We originally sailed NCL mostly and then tried RCL and found the food superior and sailed exclusively with RCL for 3 or 4 years, enough to make Diamond in that time.  Recently we tried NCL again and discovered the pendulum has tilted back to NCL in the food department.  Of course that's subjective, but the point being for 4 years we were perfectly content to be exclusive to RCL and now "they" have given us incentive to look elsewhere with the recent changes so many are dismissing as insignificant.  Yes a lot of cruise lines are making similar changes which makes them less and less different.

Will that make RCL reverse some of these decisions or miss us, I doubt it, but they are losing the dedication of a couple that cruise 3 to 4 times a year.  We've been replaced by new clients with a whole new perspective and expectation of baseline cruising and as long as they are returning year after year nothing will change.

I never understood why NCL doesn't offer something else for those of us that live near the port or an option to opt out like you can with the dining and beverage package.  It seems to me folks not needing airfare are subsidizing those that do through higher fares.

Now I know there are lots of things on a cruise ship that many folks don't or can't use, but this is a $1,200 benefit out of pocket savings. Just does not seem fair.

On 7/28/2023 at 11:46 AM, RocketMan275 said:

Is it your intention to save money by tipping less than the DSC as you go along?

The DSC covers persons you won't have personal contact with, persons who clean the ship, do your laundry.  How would  you tip them as  you go along?

Do you intend to tip as you go along in the buffet? 

Personally, advice from a TA such as that would be  red flag and I would find another TA.

This is where a lot of folks disagree with the whole concept of the gratuity system on cruise lines. No where in the world do you tip the person doing dishes, working in a buffet or washing linen and other non server functions yet we are brainwashed by NCL, RCL, Carnival and many more that its absolutely the correct thing to do.  I would really like to know from any of you that vacation other than on a cruise, if you always leave $80 per night (family of 4) on a 7 night vacation.  Do you just leave $560 on the night stand in the hotel when you leave?  Do you split it and give half to the maid or perhaps give it to the hotel desk manager for the laundry room, waiters and busboys?

I'm serious in the question as I've never seen, let alone even heard of, a family leaving nearly $600 for gratuities.  Yet the cruise lines somehow think this is normal and the customer needs to folk over this cash for what exactly?  Are they not paying minimum wage?  Are they subsidizing their costs on the back of its customers?

Somewhere in the last 20 years it became a money grab and until I know exactly where the $20 goes each night I reserve the right to modify the amount either up or down.  Don't like it, make it mandatory but my guess is there are many reasons they won't. 

After all, it is discretionary.

On 7/27/2023 at 2:33 PM, MacGuffin3 said:

"Illegally?"  NCL promotes unlimited beverages, that's their marketing choice.  Obviously there are asterisk's involved, but ultimately it should be about keeping the customer happy.  If I had to pay for something I wasn't using I wouldn't be happy.  IF they don't make an effort to solve problems, they shouldn't be surprised when people try to solve them themselves, one way or another.

One of the reasons we rarely sail on NCL these days is their prices are higher than other options we have living in the northeast.  But your argument about being forced to pay for something you can't use or that NCL should make the customer happy is too narrowly focused.  We never use the "free" airfare, but rest assured part of our fare has that cost built into it.  I have no kids that qualify for free passage (when its offered) but again that cost is factored into my fare.  I'm sure the list goes on.

The whole cruise experience is made up of choices you make, some included for free and some for an additional fee and we are free to make our own specific choices that make up our individual vacations.  Unfortunately, too many people cheat making rules like the drink plan seem unfair.

Now I'm no NCL fan and think they nickle and dime every chance they get.  I have three cruise next certificates that I'm struggling to find a use for given their product and cost.  So I'm not surprised many folks think they should make accommodations on a case by case basis or that some of their policies are unfair.  Its the same argument about booking early and then complaining the price is hundreds of dollars less after the final payment date passes. 

The rules are there plain to see and if you can't use something that costs extra, just cancel it.  Try to get them to waive their rule if you must, but after cruising for over 40 years, I can honestly tell you, they rarely do.

In a nut shell, You have a choice of dinner for two at either the french specialty or steakhouse and  dinner for two at either the Italian or Brazilian venues.  This might change slightly depending on ship.  You also get a free bottle of wine at one of the dinners, I think its only available at the French or Steakhouse but I could be wrong.  Its a very limited list of wine choices but you will find something.

Also, the benefit is per cabin so there's no double benefit if both you and your travel partner are the same level.

Finally, the menu choices are limited to one each of an appetizer, main course and desert.  If you were paying for the specialty they use to let you choose more than one appetizer if you liked.  Have not sailed NCL since the reboot so things may have changed a little.

Hope that helps.

I know they are enforcing the ban on extension cords, at least at cape liberty which results in a shortage of outlets.  Has anyone used the european outlet on the Anthem with and adapter and is it 115V or 220V? 

Thanks

So here's what's going on in reality with once a day cleaning.  Just got off an eleven night cruise on the Gem.  Upon boarding told all cabins not ready until 3:00 PM.  At 3:30 PM a mandatory lifeboat drill was called while most passengers were trying to unpack.

Throughout the Cruise room stewards (at least on our deck) did not start until 10:00 AM each morning.  Multiple passengers complained during the cruise their room steward didn't show up to make their rooms until 4:00 PM on many days.

Lots of complaints at customer service.

Somehow I don't think this is working especially at $20 a night, heck I wouldn't settle for it at $16 a night in gratuities.  The only thing that's going to make this nonsense stop is to remove the pre-paids and tip accordingly.