tjt87

17 hours ago, Warm Breezes said:

I'm not complaining because they are complaining.  I am honestly confused on why someone would waste their time complaining about a company, which has no personal loyalty to you, making a business decision based on their marketing research and bottom line.  It is not personal.    I get that they are changing something that some people like.  Some people will hate that decision and some people will love that decision and some, like me in this case, are not affected either way.  That happens with every business decision they make.  No business can please every person all the time.  Not possible.  They need to make their decision based on their market research and bottom line.

 

The difference between me and some of the other posters in this thread (and I am not complaining about them but I am expressing my honest confusion about them since I literally can not think that way) is that I don't take these business decisions personally and if I don't like the changes made then I will not waste my time constantly complaining and getting myself worked up and upset about it.  I have too many other choices out there.  It is up to me to find something that meets my wants.  It's not like there aren't a ton of other options out there in the cruise industry and NCL is the only company that sells that type of product.  I don't understand getting myself so worked up and upset about things like this.  IMHO there are so many bigger things in this life to get upset about.  I've had to live through many of them.  A business decision by a company to change their product is not one of them.

It makes no sense to me why people complain about people complaining.

Unless of course you're me who is complaining about someone complaining about someone complaining about someone complaining

17 hours ago, boatseller said:

What bothers me most about these posts is the trivialization of terms like "class" and "segregation".

We don't live in a cast system and no one is forced to the 'back of the bus'.

The only differentiator is the money you pay, which is a choice everyone can make (yes, some easier than other, so just don't).

And it goes both ways.  I can afford The Haven, but have no desire to because everything I like about cruising happens outside the bubble.  Even sitting on my balcony, I get terrible FOMO.  I get what I pay for and don't get what I'm not willing to pay for.  Everyone's happy.

 

If you don't think the class system is based on money you don't know the class system

26 minutes ago, Warm Breezes said:

I'm sure NCL has done a lot more research on what the current cruising market is and what their current targeted customer base is looking for than you have.  It appears that you may not be the targeted customer base that NCL is looking at for their current dry docks and new builds.  That doesn't mean that targeted customer base is not out there and willing to spend money on what NCL is currently offering.  It just means you are not part of it.

 

You are not happy because they currently are not catering to your wants and needs on their future dry-docks and new builds.  So make yourself happy and find another ship or line that better suits you.  It makes no sense to me why someone would rather waste their time complaining that they can't get what they want from some company rather than going out and finding a way to get what they from another.  It is not NCL's job to make YOU happy.  That is your job.  It is NCL's job to find a strong target market, try to make the majority of them happy with what they offer, and make a profit for their shareholders.

It makes no sense to me why people complain about people complaining.

Unless of course you're me who is complaining about someone complaining about someone complaining

1 hour ago, Ronin23 said:

Long live class cruising. I shouldn’t have to mix with the riff raff and lower lifes if I am cruising in the Haven. They should be kept well away....less chance of getting sick also is a bonus. 👍

Come the revolution comrade, you'll be the first. LOL

5 hours ago, GA Dave said:

OMG, you can afford internet access???  You must be rich!!!

Very compared with lots of people I've seen around the world who live well below the poverty line, and that includes people in England and the U.S

1 minute ago, elwood_98034 said:

Nope. Pieminster is way under seasoned. They are horrible. And they do that weird British thing of puttingcarrotss in the beef pies. A sweet beef pie?! Yuk. Greggs rule, plus they are a lot cheaper, so you can buy 6. And eat them...

 

If you are ever in Borough Market, go to the duck confit place, face the counter, and do a 180. There is a little pie place right there that has way better pies, and an old Scottish lady who will scold you if you ask for tomato sauce. She's hilarious. She gets really wound up about it. 

Sounds like the place for me.

Go to lots of market towns in the north (Wigan) that no tourist  would go to, and you will see bumber stickers that say "No pies left in this vehicle overnight" anyway I digress

7 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Believe it or not, we sometimes see UK ones in different places. I always grab a few and stick them in the freezer.

What are they called in the US I know milky way is "Three musketeers

2 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

We only cruise to Alaska because we don't like the heat and the sun. That is why we liked London. The 16yo Haven sundeck rule is a bit of a drag, but we wouldn't have been up there sitting around much anyway. I doesn't really have much value to me. I am just so grateful to be able to have a week off work and have someone else do the cooking.

 

Now, what is the chance you could organise Greggs to do a deal with NCL and install a kiosk on all the ships?  Just no Pieminster. They were horrible.

I'd love to see a Greggs window on an NCL ship like the Ice cream window, I could sit there all day and watch people reaction, The North's version of Margaritavillle. And by the way I like Pieminister,, and I think you know too much about Leeds 😉

10 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Mars bars have shrunk too, but I don't go mental about it.

And they're not Mars bars in the US 😀

1 minute ago, elwood_98034 said:

We can do Alaska on the Haven for just over $12k. We went to London last year, and it cost us $20k. 

You are so lucky, to be able to just get on a train and be there in a couple of hours. Or Paris, of Scotland, or Ireland. I haven't been to any of those places, and probably never will. Plus, you have Mars bars, and fish and chips. Meat pies, sausage rolls, Greggs...

I envy you.

That is true 😂 and we have a Gregg's factory in Leeds, you need to try the vegan sausage roll.

2 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Mars bars have shrunk too, but I don't go mental about it.

I'mnot going mental about it, go poke another bear 😴

11 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Thank goodness for the ignore feature.

Not for you because I guess you are ignoring me, but that is the point only your opinion matters

7 hours ago, Nic6318 said:

Hi

 

If someone wants to call it class cruising, they can, who cares. It just doesn't matter.

 

If I am satisfied with basic accommodations and don't want to pay for any extras, I can go on a very inexpensive trip. If someone wants more, they will have to pay more. Why should it bother me. People are willing to pay extra for anything and everything. Whether it is for an upgrade cabin, as well as  alcohol, gambling, photos, premium dining, whatever else any cruise line charges for. The reality is that they are subsidizing those that aren't willing/don't need to spend anything extra.

 

The cruise line wouldn't be making a profit if everyone on the ship were paying less than $500 for a week of cruising and wasn't spending extra. We all spend what we choose every day of our lives. If you want to spend $10000 for a car while someone else wants to spend $100000 for a different car, who cares. It's still going to get you to the same place. Just like the ship.

 

If someone wants to spend $5000 for their cruise and I choose to spend $500, again who cares. I can go on ten cruises for the same amount. Almost one a month... sounds pretty good to me. That's one of the great thing about having choices, and about the cruising industry. There is something for every budget. 

 

This would be true if they weren't taking something away from you that you had in the past

8 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

1. Different people define "wealthy" differently.

2. There are people who save $50 per week pp for a year in order to pay for the Haven.

3. There are people who book a balcony then win a bid to the Haven.

4. A person making $11 per hour could win $5k on a scratch-off and decide to take a "once in a lifetime" cruise in the Haven.

 

It is impossible to determine what a person is like and the lifestyle that they have for 51 weeks per year based on them spending 1 week in the Haven.

Still wealthy 1st world problem

8 hours ago, david_sobe said:

All of this because of an expanded Vibe?  There is no class system but there is a giant fee system.  People all over the ship including inside cabins routinely shell out money for eating, some entertainment, spa, and other excursions.  The irony is even if you book a Deluxe Owners Suite (notice wheels I used the word deluxe) at $20,000 you still must pay for the same upcharges including the spa.  For $20,000 you should be able to dine and shower with the captain IMHO.  All cruise lines are doing this but NCL really has taken it to a new level.  Many things are not even worth the upcharge.  Last time on Getaway the magic show was basic and would be included in the cheapest cruise line entertainment.  The mind readers are cool but have existed on cheap cruise lines since the 1970s.  NCL charged for admission to the show and gave a very MDR meal that actually made MDR meals look and taste like specialty dining.  10 years ago if you booked a specialty dining restaurant on NCL the cost was low because you got credit for your daily meals.  Yes now they have go carts, galaxy pavilion, and an adults only sundeck which all require fees.

No class system since people from all category of cabins book these things.  I hate it too but its not a class system.  When FDR took over he stated he wanted to get another $50 from each passenger but it appears he has set his eyes on $500.

I agree with much of what you say but isn't a class system and giant fee system the same thing?

22 hours ago, Kingkonig said:

I don’t think NCL (or really any of the other big lines) are returning to “class” cruising.  Sure you get more perks when you spend more money, but that’s how things work everywhere else in life too.

The definition of class cruising here

10 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I guess I'm confused why this is an issue.  When you stay at a good hotel, there are suites and concierge levels and those guests get things that those not in those rooms or floors get.  When you fly, there is first class, business class and those in economy don't get anything extra, unless they pay for a few inches of extra leg room or drinks.  When you go to a sporting event, there are suites who get things that those in regular seats don't get.  And at some sporting events, some seats get beverage and meal service, while others have to walk up and get their own.  I've never heard anyone say that sporting events have a class system or hotels or airlines, so why is it that if cruise lines do the same thing, it is a class system.  I wouldn't never think of any of this, including cruise lines as a class system, I would say it is "you pay for what you get".  I've cruised in suites, balcony cabins an ocean view cabins, in my over sixty cruises and I've never felt that I didn't get what I paid for and never considered myself traveling in a class above anyone or a class below anyone else on the ship. 

Sporting events, hotels and airlines have a class system. There you go now you have 😗

2 hours ago, RickinNYC said:

When we were younger and not making much money, we sailed in inside cabins.  When our income and priorities changed, we started booking ocean view, then followed by balconies.  Now that we're in our 50's and have a much higher income, we now sail in Haven class.  Are we now wealthy?  Not by any stretch.  But my husband and I work damn hard throughout the year, so we intend to spend our time and money in a manner that suits us. We certainly won't apologize, and if the OP wants to view the various cabin levels as class levels, that's on him.

If you cruise Haven you are wealthy

11 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

We have a Haven two bedroom coming up. Against $25k for the DOS I feel decidedly second class. By definition we are second class. They get all the good stuff. They even have a fireplace to go along with their three (!) balconies. But we only paid half that price, so I guess I should just be grateful to be out floating around with someone else cooking my Three Cheese Ziti for a change.

One big issue is that we are travelling with a 13yo, so we can't use the Haven sundecks at all. See you by the main pool.

Another one poking the bear

19 hours ago, Laszlo said:

Your the one crying Mikey about the changes. And it is that simple. Their are plenty of other cruise line you can do business with. 

You've an awful lot of posts to your name and a lot appear to be poking  the bear. I get the impression you like to see the bear react. I think you need to get outside more.

1 minute ago, NLH Arizona said:

Well, then you should be excited about giving more space for those entitled people, because if they have more private space, they won't be out and about on the ship, so you don't have to interact with them.  Seems like a win win for everyone.

 

That doesn't stop them invading the rest of the ship just the plebs invading theirs.

10 hours ago, Greenpea2 said:

I wish people would stop with the “steerage” nonsense. That is insulting to everyone in my opinion. And frankly, it comes across as sour grapes (as my mom used to say, lol).

Sorry you feel that way, but the more areas that are roped off, Extra fee, or just not available to the standard fare paying passenger the more I fell like I'm a steerage passenger. It makes me feel uncomfortable or not worthy, It increases the number of entitled people on the cruise,  something I vacation to get away from.

One reason why I am reconsidering my travel options.

Like it or not there is a class system onboard the NCL mega ships and the gap is getting wider. 

18 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

So if you're not willing to pay absurd upcharges for access to parts of the ship that had been/should be open to all passengers,  and which by taking off limits substantially reduces the quality of life for most people on the ship in order to benefit a small group, then cruising is a "bad idea"? 

No I don't think cruising is a bad idea. I was replying to some one who thought it was a good idea because there would be more vibe passes. I hate the fact that they eating away at all the space up top that was once, and should be available to all.

After my next (Paid for) BA cruise I'll be trying another cruise line mega ship. Now if enough people did that with their cruise dollars things may change. If people continue to pay for things that were and should be included we can only expect to see more of the same.

4 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I understand why many think that it's bad but an expanded VIBE also mean that more people can get VIBR-passes. That's a good thing.

A) Only for people who can afford them

B) If you can get them

and C) at the expense of the rest (Majority) of the PX

13 hours ago, Kingofcool1947 said:

 

Are you certain it’s the “baby boomers” (non-Americans) that don’t get the tipping culture in the U.S.A.?   Having never sailed with NCL,  do “baby boomers” make up  the majority of the NCL cruising demographic?

.

OK add generation X to the mix (Plus some younger) and they are the ones from UK that I think don't get the tipping culture so much.

You can also add those who are just to tight to pay up, and it's not just the Brits and Europeans. Have you ever seen the line for guest services on Carnival for those not wanting to pay.