Bon.Vivant

We have been picked up right near the ship using private tour companies.

 

Keith

Keith: Can you recommend any companies. We will be on the Crystal Serenity in August, which does Rome. We're considering a private tour from Civitavecchia to Rome. Thank you!

I'm really not sure how not having to book solves anything..... other than a mad rush to get in early on a first come first served basis for a table.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. There is still not enough capacity across the most popular restaurants to serve the number of passengers who would want to eat there and at a reasonable time. I can also envision a mad dash and lots of competition, and lots of bad feelings and frayed nerves. The "solution" may cause even more problems. I think a major overhaul is needed, not this easy fix.

BV,

 

The question anyone concerned about how solos are going to be treated in future on Muse have to realistically ask themselves what options SS have open to them., and which of those they are likely to choose.

 

With a level of oversll capacity that has proved itself constrained, it seems to me that one thing they will wish to do all they can to avoid is having singles occupying tables for two. So that leaves either seating them together to optimise tables, or tagging them on to other larger open tables where several couples and larger groups have said they wish to meet others.

 

The second option seems better than the first but that requires the MD knowing in advance that he will reliably have such tables. It also requires trouble and effort. Also an early single arriver, will they place a single at such an open empty table early by themselves before other diners have arrived at that table and risk a seat left over, or wait until it's full with only one seat remaining. And will a single feel uncomfortable sitting at a large open table waiting for unknown others to arrive at an unknown time by themselves, as they may feel uncomfortable as it looks a bit odd. Do they order food or wait.

 

Will MDs in reality take the trouble or take the line of least and easiest resistance of doing what they appear currently to do and leave the job to a host to herd singles around in a group hoping to find tables irrespective of what individuals would prefer. I don't think you need to see what they are likely to do.

 

On a cruise with low occupancy the issue is eased and probably dissapears.

I agree, Jeff. I don't think there will be many options for accommodating solos, especially when the ship is at high occupancy. And it will get very complicated for MD's to try to incorporate singles into tables of couples or into groups open to having people join them, when seating space is limited on a busy cruise. Much easier to just stick all the solos at their "special" table -- if one can be found. And the vision of being herded around by a host in hunt of a table is mortifying. Sad that SS don't seem to value their solo passengers -- yet we read that there is an increasing number of solo travelers who want to go on cruises.

I am so sorry I did not mean to offend to the level that I made you use the word "pariah". As I am not single soI do not feel qualified to comment further other than suggest, if you have not done already, feed back to SS what has worked for you in the past, I do not see they can create a "main dining room" but they surely will try to accommodate and make solos feel welcome as this appears to me to be a large proportion of some cruises especially longer voyages.

 

Apologies again if I offended it was not intended.

My apologies Davidc32. I didn't intend to say you were offending with your idea, although my strong words did make it sound like that's what I was saying. What you suggested regarding dining for solos has been brought up before. I don't think it would be satisfactory to many of us, - I think it would make people start to feel like they are part of a group of outcasts, separated from the rest, and relegated to a special table with their own kind. And yet, under the current dining structure, this may be the best they can do to accommodate solos who don't want to eat alone. Not satisfactory at all.

I don't think you were being offensive. I think SS, in their design for dining on the Muse, is offending solo travelers.

I can understand solo travellers may fine the new arrangements less than friendly, we travelled on the Inaugural Venetian sailing with many solo world cruisers who also felt the same. I think they could adopt some flexibility in Atlantide which in terms of menu and style is "like" the main dining option, they have a couple of large tables and could make it known that these are available for solos. ...

When I read your suggestion for solos, well forgive me, but the word "pariah" jumps into my mind. Is this is the best the Muse can do for solos -- put us all at a large table in Atlantide every night for the whole cruise like a group of outcasts. And, considering the whole dining system, perhaps this is the "best" they can do if a solo doesn't want to eat alone at a table or in their cabin. Very off-putting to me for booking on the Muse as a solo.

Honestly it really is very flexible just book the rough time you would normally dine and if you need change it wasn't an issue at all......

That's very interesting indeed that it wasn't an issue for you, when it was for a number of other people who experienced the opposite -- a lack of flexibility in being able to change pre-set arrangements and dine with new-found friends.

Like a number of others, I am following this topic with interest before deciding whether or not to venture on the Muse.

We have friends who like the ship but feel exactly the same.

 

 

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It is a shame, because it sounds like a lovely ship in most other respects. But the dining situation is a deal-breaker.

We have friends who like the ship

 

It is a shame, because it sounds like a lovely ship in most other aspects. But the dining situation is a deal-breaker.

What a shock!!!

Indeed.:D

There's a new post in the Cruise Reviews section regarding the Muse. Yet more passengers who found the new dining arrangement on Muse to be unsatisfactory -- to the point where they will never come back to the Muse if the dining set-up remains the same.

This is the new trend in cruise ships. So to but it bluntly "Not a Chance"

Who else is doing it? I'm not aware of any other ships sailing without a main dining room.

I followed the development of the product as closely as one can. It sounded like several restaurants and cuisines and each eveing you would wander around and see what you fancied and then sat down and ate. It sounded so good, and we were certain it would suit us, but it is the absolute opposite. I don't like the unspontaneous nature of it all and I don't like treating MDs like gods.

 

You need to join us on one of our street food safaris to Singapore. We use to go three times a year for a few weeks each time, but now it's just one. It use to just be a stopover on the way to Oz, but then we cut Oz out.

 

You could always join us on our nut and punch safari this December in Vienna! That is fun. :)

Sounds like a lot of fun, Jeff. There are more options for vacationing other than cruises, for sure! I think I will start checking them out.

Les,

 

As far as I'm aware I have been interested in the logistics of the problem that Soapy and others have posted on and unlike you cannot offer advice because I haven't been on Muse and I do not see a resolution. I had hoped that the informality of Muse would tempt us back but it's now clearly isn't for us. I don't like planning six months ahead for anything let alone what I am going to eat every night for a week or two and I don't respond to dissapointments well. Anyway,you've described my opinions as "absurd" so let's leave it there.

 

 

Jeff, like you, I have decided that the Muse is not for me, and I'm sure we are not alone. I don't think it's a matter of giving time for the Muse to iron out "the kinks". I think the whole dining concept is faulty for a cruise ship environment, and in the way that Silversea is doing it. For one thing, there's not enough room to accommodate everyone in the restaurants that will be the most popular; many people don't want to be required to plan when and what they want to eat months down the road or risk going without; there's not much flexibility in the set-up to accommodate changes of plan; it's not going to work for solo travelers. I can go on, but the problems have already been discussed and are numerous. Although there are only a few reports at this point from passengers that have actually sailed on the Muse, their reports bear out our concerns.

 

I will certainly not go on Muse for my next cruise. Most cruise ships are not operating their dining this way. And if it happens that this is where they all will go, then I will consider options other than cruising for my holidays.

It was on Crystal On line you choose date and time for MDR you can walk in but the wait can be long Unlike when we where on the Wind and the Whisper Just walked in no wait

I don't understand this?? I was on Crystal Symphony three weeks ago. I was at late sitting for 8:30 every night and sat at the same table. I never had to make a reservation beforehand for dinner, and I never saw people lined up waiting to get in the main dining room. Are you talking about Crystal, and their MDR? Or another cruise line?

Mass markets MDR have had anytime dining for years . We have been on mass, Silver Seas twice and Crystal in Feb. It seems like the Muse is going like Crystal is . You have to make a reservation for the MDR in advance or if you do not you have to wait and see . In the alternative dining room we got to dine one time each and if you wanted a second time you had to pay. In certain categories. On Silver Sea we just went down and walked in small ship can do that . That was great but to many formal nights . It was like when we where on Cunard Vista- fjord, many moons ago . Times change people change wait till Silver Seas goes

Elegant casual there will be a great disturbance in the Force.

I've been on Crystal Symphony several times recently. You certainly do NOT need a reservation for the MDR. It's traditional set-seating with early and late sittings -- which I think works far better than what the Muse is doing -- at the least, you can be sure that you will (and when you will) be well fed and from a nice menu that has a number of options to chose from and which varies each night. Everyone has the option to go once to each of the two specialty restaurants, one Asian and the other Italian. They're fine once, but I haven't seen people rushing to return frequently to the specialties. They are nice, but it's the same menu and the same theme (Asian or Italian) every night. Unless they have very restricted tastes, most people would not be satisfied if they were limited to a few "specialty" restaurants for their entire cruise. This, to me is another problem with the "specialty restaurant" idea -- the lack of variety. On the Muse, if you don't want a for-charge restaurant, and you don't want to eat outside, that leaves only four restaurant options - each with a set theme ( Asian, Steak & Seafood, etc.) and likely a menu that doesn't change often. For many of us, this would get rather boring, especially on a long cruise.

Someone suggested that Silversea just needs to work out the "kinks", but I can't imagine they would have many options because the whole arrangement is so flawed on many levels. The dining system on the other ships seems to have been working fine -- "If it ain't broke........" :(

Indeed. The under occupation figure can be the killer. We use to have an 85 seater restaurant in our club. All tables seated four and so we'd join them together for anything more than five people. From recall our under occupancy would be on a good night say 15% and on a bad night 25% or more. SS will do better than that because they have a range of tables available. So if it were just 15%, then out if the 50 seats left unbooked in a 140 seater, 15% (of 140) say 20 seats might be wasted. So that takes the 50 down to 30 before you even consider the hosted tables and those held back.

 

It puzzles me, that's for sure.

You'd think that the planners/designers would have anticipated some of these potential problems. Apparently not. Another case of barreling ahead with a "vision" without getting the ducks in a row beforehand?

BV, re capacity, I think the situation is a touch more demanding than that for the following reasons. All small, but what is left is small, and these things all add up.

 

Although a relatively small number, the number of diners is more than the number of passemgers as there are also an unspecified number of staff that are entitled to eat in restaurants. Presumbly a number of them have fixed reservations in specific restaurants where they expect to host tables. The number seated at those tables in addition to the host is therefore removed from the pool of say 35% non-bookable that remain for passengers to take. So a 140 seater might have 90 prebooked leaving a remainder of say 50 if it were possible to have every seat occupied, which of course it would not be. Out of that 50 will be seats wasted when couples wish not to share or groups of three sitting at four-seaters, seats held back by the MD, hosted tables that will tend to seat more etc.

 

That doesn't seem to me to theoretically leave much flexibility for those without bookings.

Whoa... The problems and complications inherent in the whole dining set-up are mind-boggling, once you start thinking it all through! :eek: And why didn't the creative designing geniuses think it all through?

I don't think the number of seats in a restaurant is the same as the number of possible bookings, since the seats can be turned over at least twice in an evening. Thus a seating capacity of 140 is actually at least 280 bookings. True?

As Wripro pointed out, there can only be two seatings if most people booked either early or late. I assume most people would book for around 7:00 pm. Allowing for 2.5 hrs per seating, there would not be enough time before or after for another seating. I don't think many would want to dine at 4:30 or at 9:30 pm. Silversea may have to go to a traditional two-seating system in the restaurants -- early and late seatings at 6pm and 8:30 pm. Or they will have to limit the length of time you could stay at you table (perhaps limiting us to 1.5 hrs per sitting, before you have to leave the table.) Otherwise, there will not be enough capacity to ensure that a good chunk of passengers will not be relegated to eating outside or in their cabins, or forced to use a for-charge restaurant if they don't want to.

;p

 

I think that it is easy to forget the human aspects of when this sort of thing goes wrong. I don't think Sophia will mind me giving my take of what happened to her on the night she came to grief with all this.

 

She was looking after a great friend of hers who was older and worthy of the sort of respect all of us would understand. Both ladies had dressed up for a meal that they were anticipating would be a glittering evening of fine food and company of a few other friends. I think Sophia felt that she was looking after her friend and felt sort of responsible in that she felt she had let her friend down for what was a disaterous evening but out of her control. The group, hoping to eat together went from place to place asking or begging for a table but in the end they had to split up with Sophia and her friend dressed up for a proper meal eating a substandard pizza in the cold. The way they were "handled" was also rude. Two elegant mature ladies eating out in the cold a meal not of their choice is not a nice thing. This isn't what you pay SS prices for. And then to hear someone boasting that they had secured without prior booking a favoured table in their choice of restaurant for the whole cruise because they bribed the MD was the icing on the cake.

 

I think all of us can understand how Soapy felt. She is far too nice to say all this, but clearly I'm not. :)

Nobody should have to endure such experiences on a luxury cruise -- or any cruise, for that matter.

What may give some "temporary relief" would be to loosen the in-suite dining menu restrictions, and perhaps allowing the 24 hour menu in the pizza place etc. At least this would take one element out of the doubly whammy of not having a seat anywhere and being told to burger off.

 

Perhaps if any suites are unsold then at a pinch having them reconfigured for "private dining" and offering them to floating groups unable to dine anywhere and sold as a sort of La Champagne experience plus.

Great solutions! I'm ROFL :D.

I'm unable to see how they can wholly resolve this, but I can see how it happened, On paper it is an extremely attractive idea to offer more choice. But this model can only work if you have considerably more restaurant capacity than might be practically deliverable. So you have created a whole set of new expectations you can possibly never satisfy to an acceptable degree of certainy. It is a big ship scheme that cannot work with the reduced numbers on Muse.

 

With the old model there was no real need to reserve in advance except for the odd night in Terraza or Champagne and you knew with absolute certainy there was a table for you in MD. Now you have to scurry around 6 months out and try and predict what you'll want to eat and prebook in competition with many others for every night or risk a high possibility of dissapointment, and really be in a position of being told what and where you will eat. Under the old rules spontoneity was possible because you knew that if you met some nice people in the bar you'd probably get a table in the MD and you knew what to dress up in before you left your suite. Now, I don't think the new arrangement has the flex in it for you to simply expect with the same degree of certainty that you can add a couple of places at your pre-reserved restaurant because the MD won't want to do it until he knows whether everyone else who has booked is arriving. And under the old scheme you knew if you were dressed up you would certainly get a seat in the MD.

 

When you decide to up your game - which is a good thing if it works - and offer greater choice you must ensure that you can practically deliver otherwise you will have created a situation (when you didn't need to) of dissapointing people and upsetting them. The problem is that the line has needlessly created a set of reasonable expectations that it looks like it cannot deliver with the degree of certainty customers will expect.

Well said, Jeff! "More choice" is a nice idea in the abstract, but essentially not deliverable in this circumstance, and in the way it has been done. In fact, Silversea's result ends up going in the opposite direction - less choice. It seems to me that it's another example of management rushing forward with a new idea, without carefully thinking it through.

BV,

 

What adds particularly to the problem is that if up to 65% of seats are pre-reserved, in some of the smaller venues you need to ask yourself how many of the remaining 35% of a small number is going to be held back by the MD for "appreciative" customers.

 

On land you wander around and patrons are desperate to welcome you and you are customer and king. And you can keep wandering until you find something you want. There is basically no limit to the amount of choice and number of establishments. The Muse arrangement places you in the weak position and it seems to be that nothing is guaranteed and you are at the mercy of the MDs and are to an unacceptble degree insufficiently in control of your choices. The power base is reversed.

 

You don't get a refund if you feel you paid for a silver service meal but are told you are either eating pizza in a cafe or a burger in your suite.

I'm sure you are correct, Jeff. The whole set-up seems ripe for the kind of shenanigans you allude to, where the "appreciative" customer will

have the advantage in a situation of low supply. Our choices onboard are limited. Thus, as you say the power base is reversed -- we can't exactly take our business somewhere else on most evenings. Plus, we shouldn't have to - we've already paid for fine dining onboard. To have to accept a burger or pizza is ...well, just unacceptable.

I have been very vocal about wanting reassurance that there will be accommodations for single cruisers. So let's all hope that these same "powers that be " will consider how miserably uncomfortable solo passengers will be if there aren't concrete plans to include them.

 

Between not having a Main Dining Room and having to make advance dining reservations, the people traveling alone are being put in a very frightening situation.

 

I can't count the numbers of times I have reassured nervous singles that SS is exceptional at making them feel welcomed. Come on Silversea, please keep your tradition of " Dine whenever and with whom you like". To me, this has always been more than a motto. It's a guarantee of both spontaneity and luxury.

 

I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but I feel like I must keep this issue alive...not just for me, but for other folks who also need to feel welcomed. For more than 20 years, my late husband and I so loved our many SS experiences. I don't want to give it all up.

'

CruisinPashmina, I have exactly the same concerns, and have expressed that in several posts. This kind of dining arrangement does not work for solo travelers. Most of us would like to dine with other people -- but we haven't yet met these people pre-cruise and thus can't make reservations with them in advance. And it doesn't sound like SS has done anything to accommodate solos.

I think the whole dining situation is full of problems. It's complicated and inflexible. Plus, it seems that there's not enough capacity to accommodate everyone in the more desirable venues. I quote Silver Spectre who pointed out: " If I understand this correctly evening covers are as follows:

Indochine seats 180

Atlantide seats 140

La Terrazza seats 140

Say we have a nearly full ship, 560 or so, it's a cold/windy evening and there's not much uptake on the charged restaurants. That leaves somewhere like 100 guests stuck with pizza, room service or the Silver Note, or maybe in a queue waiting for a table clear in one of the restaurants."

I can just imagine the scrambling and competition to secure a dining spot if you don't want a charged restaurant, and don't want to eat outside or in your cabin.

Way to go SS!, on making the dining experience what I'm sure will be a disappointing experience for many.

Summary and Conclusions

".....Obviously the big issue is the capacity for dinner. On the first night one couple wandered round the various dining venues begging for food like Oliver Twist, because everywhere had been pre- booked either online in advance of embarkation, or on embarkation day. A single lady ended up shivering in Hot Rocks!......"

 

 

I'm sure that this won't be the only time such things happen. And people are paying luxury cruise prices for such experiences! The dining situation sounds complicated, poorly thought-out and likely unworkable, especially for solo guests. It sounds like there isn't enough capacity in the venues people prefer, so you have to reserve well in advance to avoid pizza in the cold. Also the system is too inflexible to accommodate people wanting to change plans, or wanting to dine with new friends. For a solo traveler, all this makes the dining experience something anxiety-provoking and unpleasant to say the least. And, dining should be one of the highlights of a luxury cruise.

It's very clear that lots of members have found and used a TA to take care of their itineraries and make their recommendations through personal experiences which is great and not in question. However don't assume all travel agents are equal. On my last cruise we used a TA and annoyed that further discounts offered by the cruise line were not being passed on. On the one I have coming up, we not only negotiated a good deal, but after paying in full , we were able to obtain through promotions a two cat upgrade and $1000 on board spend without quibble. People on the rollcall who booked through a TA were told they weren't entitled to it.

 

It's a shame the boards don't allow info to be passed on TA. I'm not against using one, but the two examples above is why I'd always book direct. (Until I'm confident I've found a TA that will be acting on my behalf!)

I haven't had much luck in finding a TA willing to give me any Ship Board Credit or discount at all. The last TA I used promised a small rebate and never came through. So, now I book direct with the cruise line, and usually get some SBC. So, I'm perplexed by what I'm reading on this thread. Last year, I phoned around again to various TA's in my area, and nobody was willing to give me more than $50 in credit or rebate (even though I had done all the work already, and all they needed to do was take over the booking).

An advantage of booking direct is that you can phone or email your cruise consultant to ask questions. It's more efficient than having to track down your TA, telling them your questions, and waiting for them to get back to you after they contact the cruise line. Why should I bother going through this, if the TA isn't even giving me any incentive for dealing with them.