cautery

4 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Please point out in the contract where it says anything about timely refunds or refunds at all. If it's not in the contract, specifically spelled out, then it's not a contract violation. Not paying interest charges isn't really a savings except maybe in the eyes of a marketer, you can avoid interest charges by not making the charge to begin with (or by paying the charges in full before the end of the billing cycle). It would be different if you were talking about some sort of credit for using a particular card, such as cash back or points, but as noted above for Amex they take that credit back if you receive a refund for the charges. I'm not blaming you for anything, but as I pointed out others might not be so charitable. I've already addressed your idea of first in/first out.

Here is a link to the Carnival Ticket Contract in effect on MY cruise:  Carnival Ticket Contract

6.CANCELLATION BY GUEST, REFUNDS established that for MY booking, the day on which I cancelled provides for a 100% refund.  (91 days or more before Sail Date for a 6 day or more itinerary)

WRITTEN letter from Carnival to me dated 03/22/2020, lists NO PENALTY applied and states:

"A refund of the government fees and taxes will be processed to the original form of payment within 10-14
business days."

I STILL have not received that refund.  That written document constitutes a "written and approved" modification of the original CCL Ticket Contract under US Law.

CCL's Contract says I am entitled to a refund.  I complied with the terms of the contract to cancel the booking and requested a full refund back to original payment sources.  Carnival ACKNOWLEDGED and AGREED to MAKE the refund, again the Cancellation Letter...

The Question at hand is what law governs how long CCL can LEGALLY hold my money rather than return it AS AGREED.

As for all their attempts to limit the Buyer's Rights under their boiler-plate contract, et al. I suspect a Federal Judge would set those aside, based on the fact that it IS a boiler-plate contract where only ONE-SIDE had a reasonable opportunity to "negotiate".

CCL cannot simply "exempt" themselves from the law.  I'll guarantee you that there is a law somewhere that defines the maximum term a merchant can hold funds AFTER it has agreed to make a full refund.

Not paying interest charges isn't really a savings except maybe in the eyes of a marketer, you can avoid interest charges by not making the charge to begin with (or by paying the charges in full before the end of the billing cycle).

You don't have much experience in capital management, do you?  I have terms where EVERY purchase I make over $99 is 6 months deferred interest INDIVIDUALLY tracked by purchase.  As long as I pay THAT purchase off in under 180 days from date of purchase, I pay NO INTEREST at all.  It is effectively a 6 month no-interest loan.  At CC interest rates (mine are average 10% or less), that is a significant savings.  It is NOT marketing.... it is MATHEMATICS and finance.

I don't really care what YOUR opinion of FIFO is, I pretty much only care what a court will say when the lawsuits start hitting.

Based on what I am hearing, Carnival may well not survive this.  I wouldn't book a cruise with them now if my life depended on it.


 

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

First, you get a refund and you're still ticked off about it. Second if your conclusion is correct you're complaining about things has delayed things for the rest of us. I'm not upset by that because I'm still working but I imagine that others who aren't so lucky feel differently.

You bet I'm still ticked off, as every single CCL customer who has been made to wait to get their money back IN VIOLATION of a LEGAL CONTRACT.

Had Carnival refunded my money in the time frame THEY quoted on the written cancellation confirmation THEY provided, I would not have been deprived of the deferred interest terms on the $1532.90.  For me, that means a loss of several hundred dollars that is UNRECOVERABLE.

For a small businessman who is 1) trying to stay alive financially, and 2) trying to put food on the table, several hundred dollars is significant.

Would YOU voluntarily set 3 crisp $100 bills on fire and let them burn without doing ANYTHING to stop it?

And don't even THINK about blaming ME (or any other customer) for ANY delay for ANYONE.  Carnival had my money to use for FREE for almost a year.

The only truly equitable method for refunding monies would have been FIFO....  First IN, First OUT....  IAW:  Refunds SHOULD have been scheduled based on the date CARNIVAL took possession of the funds.

1) Booked on March 7th, 2019 - Paid $718.00 for Vacation protection, Prepaid Gratuities, deposit.  MASTERCARD (Citi)

2) Paid entire remaining balance on June 30th 2019 = $1532.90  VISA (Synchrony Financial/PayPal)

3) Cancelled March 22nd, 2020 - IAW Contract, prior to 90 days before sailing date, I am entitled to a 100% refund back to original forms of payment.

4) Received a Cancellation Confirmation stating that I would receive FULL refunds within 10-14 business days.

On MAY 10, 2020, I FINALLY received a refund of the $1532.90 on Synchrony/PayPal credit card.  PayPal applied it to my outstanding 6 months deferred interest purchases until it was gone, depriving me of the REASON I use that card (essentially a 0% interest loan).  Thus, CCL indirectly screwed me out of even more money>

STILL have not received the refund of the initial $718 I spent....  (Dispute Credit has been applied conditionally since 11 April or so).

Bottom Line, it would appear that they are either NOT refunding by "Sail Date" (mine was in October 2020), OR they bumped mine up the queue due to the pending dispute.

They have until 12 June to address the Citi Master dispute.

1 hour ago, The Critical Cruiser said:

I agree, I don't think they are refunding by cruise date, I think they are refunding by the date of the requested refund.  

I surely hope so, but I see no evidence to point at any consistent policy in the matter.
It would seem to me that a consistent policy AND proper communication from the company to those affected would be the prudent pathway to NOT losing customers.

Apparently, CCL does not see it that way.

8 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Yeah, I saw your plan a few pages back. You can intend all you want to but at the end of the day all a court is likely to give you is a refund of your cruise fare, if it even makes it into court (since there is an arbitration clause in the cruise contract, among other things). You would need to show malice in order to even have a chance of recovering extraordinary damages and since all of the cruise lines are doing the same thing that Carnival is doing it's unlikely that you'd succeed in that regard. 

Arbitration clauses contained in boiler plate contracts are routinely set aside by courts as precedent dictates that boiler plate contracts are to be interpreted in favor of the party that did NOT draft the contract.

I have never sued anyone in my life, though I have had valid causes of action to do so.  But I am making an exception here, because Carnival's conduct in the matter is IMO particularly egregious.

And @jennas_mum....  I saw your response before it was deleted.  You have completely missed the point.

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

Regardless of how anyone thinks it should be done CCL is doing it their way and we don't get a vote.

Until the lawsuits start hitting the courts....  <wink>

46 minutes ago, bury me at sea said:

 

I think they aren't following FIFO.  The refund I am waiting for is FTTF booked March 22, 2019. The cruise itself was booked July 17, 2018.

Clearly they aren't....

Frankly, I see no rhyme or reason to the pattern.

IMO, refunding by sail date is inherently unfair.

Legally, the refunds should be made according to FIFO...

First IN, First OUT....  Refund in order of the date the monies were transmitted to Carnival's "care"...  the money should have been maintained in escrow to begin with.  ESPECIALLY for a company using accrual based accounting which generally ALL corporations are required to utilize.

1 hour ago, kimco93 said:

Those that have already gotten a refund when was your cruise & when was refund asked for?  My cruise was May 24 & I asked for refund on March 9.  Still nothing.  Wonder if they are going by cruise date or refund request date.  

Man, I surely hope it is not by cruise date....  My sail date was 25 October 2020.... That is a LONG time to wait.

2 hours ago, buckeyefrank said:

Stock prices themselves have NO impact on liquidity for the company.  You're confusing the cause for the effect.  The CAUSE of the lowering stock prices is because of the lack of cash.  The low stock price does not cause a reduction of cash.

Ever been a CFO of a large corporation trying to secure financing when your common stock was under attack by short raiders?

Me either, but I've owned stock in two such companies.  ONE of them beat the shorts and crushed the attack because they had guts and a metric crap tonne of cash BEFORE the attack.

The second company. not so much.  Their stock went under $5.00; they got delisted; financing dried up, and they wound up being purchased out of bankruptcy.  THOUSANDS got screwed....  About the only folks made whole were the bond holders first in line.

Trust me, the stock price CAN and DOES affect a companies ability to raise private capital.

3 hours ago, momof4boys said:

Carnival has so much better customer service. 

My experience, as well as that of many others, does not tend to support your assertion.

Carnival Glory Cruise for 10/25/2020 Sail Date:

1) Booked on March 7th, 2019 - Paid $718.00 for Vacation protection, Prepaid Gratuities, deposit.  VISA (Synchrony Financial/PayPal)

2) Paid entire remaining balance on June 30th 2020 = $1532.90  MASTERCARD (Citi)

3) Cancelled March 22nd, 2020 - IAW Contract, prior to 90 days before sailing date, I am entitled to a 100% refund back to original forms of payment.

4) I am in receipt of a Cancellation Confirmation stating that I would receive FULL refunds within 10-14 business days.

5) Called on 14th Business Day:  April 9th, 2020 and inquired as to why I have not been paid back yet.  Carnival employee was EXTREMELY rude and told me "if you are lucky, you MIGHT see a refund in 90 days or so".
I asked to speak to a supervisor.  Supervisor was likewise rude and told me there was nothing he could do and HUNG UP IN MY EAR without another word.

6) On April 9th, 2020, I filed a dispute with Citi, claiming failure to refund monies for services not received.  I included ALL relevant documentation including the cancellation letter, the online cancellation policy, AND the boiler plate "Cruise Contract" with applicable passages highlighted.... in the total amount of $1532.90

7) On April 9th, 2020, I filed a similar dispute with Synchrony Financial in the amount of $718.00

8.  On April 10th, Synchrony confirmed receipt of dispute and documents.

9) On April 11th, Citi confirmed receipt of dispute, and requested documentation (that had ALREADY been submitted).

10) On April 15th, I filed a complaint with the Louisiana Attorney General's office against CCL for failure to refund for services not rendered and failure to maintain required escrow funding.

11) On April 15th, I lodged complaints with my Louisiana State Rep and Senator.

12) On April 15th, I lodged complaints with my US Representative, and both Senators.

There is NO balance on these cards to suspend.  I pay my bills in full EVERY month, regardless of the circumstances.
Carnival Cruise Lines should do the same.  IF I owed THEM $2,250.90, they sure as heck wouldn't let ME have 90+ days or forever...

Carnival has an accounting issue.  WE have a "putting food on the table" issue, as we, like many of you, have lost ALL sources of income.

What Carnival, et al. are doing is reprehensible and tantamount to criminal theft.

I am billing Carnival for the use of my funds at 22.5% interest calculated on an average daily balance method.

They will pay the full refund AND interest in excess of the MAX 14 business days THEY quoted to me IN WRITING, or I will place a lien on the Carnival Glory and sue them for the funds AND the pain and suffering they are causing my family.

I will never sail on Carnival Cruise Lines again....  EVER!
 

Yup...  first on the list is letting "my bartender" know that I will be getting ALL of my DW's drinks for her.
It has never been an issue.

I pay EVERYTHING I can ahead of time...  but that's just me.
But I ALSO take a couple hundred in ones (2 fresh stacks from the bank) JUST for tipping (and some fives, tens, and twenties brand new too).  I tip pretty much everyone as I go when their service warrants it.... and wouldn't you know it... I have remarkable luck in getting beyond excellent service almost everywhere we go.

I generally pick out a primary bar tender, and the wait staff (clubs/bars) typically compete to take our orders.
I have a conversation with the cabin steward (ess) and the supervisor (in private) on the first day.  I tell them what I want and that I plan to tip them extra for receiving the extra attention.  I give them approximately half the anticipated extra gratuity UP FRONT, and the rest as we leave for debarkation (or the night before).
Same with the waitstaff in the dining room and steak house.
It's not about looking like a big shot.... I do it to make sure my wife has the best time possible...  top service, fast, and friendly.

IF there is a problem with NON-bar service at any time during the cruise, I address it immediately at the desk.  IF it is corrected, I leave my PRE-PAID gratuities un-adjusted.  If the problems are not corrected, I adjust the pre-paids down at the end of the cruise with a detailed written critique (with suggested solutions) included.  I have never had to adjust the gratuities.  I ALWAYS provide a written review to the CD before I debark.

NOTE: I do ALL of this in private and on my own.  My DW never has to see or deal with "issues".

We keep our S&S and Driver's Licenses (both punched) on a lanyard and keep that generally inside our shirts.
The lanyard has a safety breakaway feature which prevents a strangling accident if caught on something while we do all the active stuff.

For me...  it is a peace of mine thing....  If I lose my wallet or get robbed, I have my ID and card to get back in port and on the ship.

On board, I never have to worry about carrying anything else.

ALWAYS leave the fridge cabinet open.... ALWAYS.

IF it is their 1st cruise, they should stick to an interior room, amidships.

Balconies are great, but once you go to a balcony, IMO and experience, it is almost impossible to go back again.
We did interior on our honeymoon...  we never noticed.  We were otherwise occupied either in or out of the room.

Second cruise, we jumped to a balcony on the SPA deck....  We will never go back!

Put that $240 on their sail and sign account.... they will need it!!  🙂

On cruise #1, (our honeymoon), my wife and I easily broke $1.5k bar tab...  don't remember the exact number.  Not counting bar tabs off-ship.
On cruise #2, (3rd Anniversary), we were being less "party minded", but still easily exceeded the cheers cost by a comfortable margin... even though we had "supplemental supplies".

Cruise #3 in 597 days, (10th Anniversary), and I can ASSURE you that even with the price increases and the 15 drink limit, we will still save a ton of money buying the Cheers sticker.

We karaoke every night, piano bar, catch every show, hang out in the hot tub on the Lido...
Easily 10-12 drinks a day (max on a couple of days) PLUS an equal amount of water.

Disappointed in this! It was nice to be able to get into the hot tubs with out the kids playing and splashing.

+1 on this. Not trying to be curmudgeonly or anything, in fact, I dig kids... well behaved kids that is. Behavior aside, kids like to splash and scream when in close proximity to a pool... Sometimes this is awesome, but most of the time these days, I prefer to do my pool time sans the special effects. ;)