UKCruiseJeff

Where do they get their entertainers from?  

Maplin!

Lirio,

Such a shame to hear about the cancellation.  Reading what happened it sounds like you have had a narrow escape to what sounds like almost certain disappointment

Those platters are impressive particularly with the cheese knife set and is that walnut loaf … with a touch of honey perhaps?

Tonight’s supper was  Mortadella and salad with mayo in focaccia panini and a mug of house white. 

Just now, spinnaker2 said:

PEAS! I love peas.

Mange tout mon cher petit pois.

Love your humour Fletch.  Do keep it up.  The humour that is. 😀

2 hours ago, highplanesdrifters said:

All of your comments once again are spot on!  Especially the one above.

 

A very smart woman!  Suite 801 is our favorite of all time.

 

Again, brilliant comments. Thanks.

Thanks so much for the kind comments!

She was right about 801.  We had most of our meals there and in those days you could order what you wanted and everything was wonderful.  It was like having your own boat without any of the palaver. Or cost.  Or noisy neighbours!  No one passes 801. 

For a couple of ports we were able to grab 802 which was vacant and had it set out boardroom style and in those days you could easily invite guests on board for the day.  And to my surprise, no charges. SS considered it marketing. 

We had clients and friends who joined us in Barcelona, Monaco etc etc and SS put up a great seafood table and manned our private bar for us on each day and never has our client meetings gone so exceptionally well and so fluidly. I think the cruise more than paid for itself a few times over.   Not many people have gone to work in 801/2.  It certainly killed the idea of my own boat.

To salivate, here is “wife on a shelf” and some more.  

Thanks again.

Jeff

17 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

If you made it a day ahead, sliced the layer horizontally and soaked the cut sides with Amaretto, and then reassembled it with whipped cream in between and on top – it would be ever better!  [And if you did it with four half-layers and molded it into a large round bowl, it would be what my DW's dessert called 'the bomb' – actually adapted from a recipe for trifle, but things have a way of shifting with her baking just like CC threads often do...]

One thing I have learned, is that sometimes “Less is More”

😄

Jeff

Good afternoon Coolers,

Today was chicken in white wine sauce with mash and peas!  As an aside.  My memory just sparked up.  Did someone use to pop up in Cooler history and shout out “PEAS!” every time I posted a piccy of peas?  🤔

Anyway, in sympathy with Rojaan19 we have smaller portions for the dietary compromised.  😦

I’m proud of the parsley because a year or so back I was bored and we got heavily into hydroponics for fresh stuff and as a result we have been overtaken by stuff including parsley.  Hydroponics is a wonderful thing.

Today it was house wine.

Jeff

2 hours ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

I think you hit the nail on the head and explained the current situation perfectly.  

 

Add in:

Along with new cruisers there are also the upgraders.  Will folks find the upgrade from Oceania, Viking, etc. worth it?

Lots of folks trying expedition, will all the new ships get supported?

Will the excessive marketing to a younger demographic work? Enough with all the influencers on board!

 

Although we currently have 4 expeditions booked I'm actively looking for alternatives. 

 

Hi,

The issue that might be factored into your thoughts is that an entrant into the uber-luxury game needs to be clear what it wishes to achieve.  

I’m so distant from the innards that I can only go on my instinct.  It seems to me that the general upscale opportunity in cruising isn’t in expedition.  I say this because it seems to me that the opportunity for even higher diems is low - it’s already quite high and the limiting factor of the  size of ship is inevitably small’ish so there are no scale savings and the opportunity for quality improvement therefore is limited because there might not be so much revenue increase opportunity. 

It seems to me that the opportunity is the larger opportunity of mainstream ocean cruising. You mention upgraders and to me that implies something “a bit better”.  I think the opportunity is in way more.  I think it is for what is now currently routinely promised and not provided by anything I read about.  It is where SS started.  I mean genuinely exceptional in all respects.

There is also a ship size sweetspot  which seems to increase each year and I believe there is a growing pent-up demand for something better than what’s currently on offer. Your point seems if I have understood you predicated on the idea that a luxury line needs a high volume of defectors from cheaper lines.  In fact it seems to me that it needs a much smaller number of people looking for exceptional product and aren’t too bothered about the cost within justifiable reason. For example our move to our first cruise with SS was my wife’s insistence that I should stop nagging about having my own cruiser but instead have a better experience and save money by booking 801 on Whisper for our first trial cruise. She was right.  It was a stunning experience.

Re expeditions.  I’m lucky,  I’m not nimble and the idea of getting off of a ship into a dingy so I can see some penguins seems a daft idea when I can stay at home and watch them on youtube with some cake and some booze and my own bed at nights.  But I’m just a lethargic.

Jeff

54 minutes ago, spinnaker2 said:

I think that was the intent of Manfredi. But so far the hay hasn’t been spun into gold.

Hi Spins,

You may recall as we've both been here for a while that we worked with Manfredi and SS for a while on this very topic ie CS and how to best "harvest" high-value relationships ie us punters  for the longer-term.  He was incredibly proud of his line and I wonder how many of the senior people that were appointed over time supported his visceral motivations. I was thrilled that we worked with them for a while. 

What I can say is that he was totally 100% emotionally committed to expanding and growing his line whilst preserving exceptional quality.  To remind you with the contemporary context, this was at a time when the only viable competitor too SS's first few ships was SB, but they didn't have balconies. I think in those days it was Wind, Cloud, Whisper and Shadow but my memory isn't what it was. These were great days to be an SS customer.  I saw the long-term opportunity as an open goal. I believed then that SS had an extraordinary opportunity.  However there is a difference in the way that you can grow.  You can grow organically and grow in line with your customer growth ie only building ships when you believe you can fill them at a viable diem and therefore can guarantee you can afford to protect the high level of quality you need.  This is the best way of growing ie in sync with your growing customer base and therefore gives you the best long-term shot IMHO.  It is slower but self-sustaining.

Or you can make your aspiration for say 11 ships as quickly as possible being your guiding impetus.  This implies you running after the volume you need to underpin the growth which inevitably (and in my view invariably) compromises quality. It has always seemed to me that this inevitably means moving down market.  The problem is that as you crawl down market to sustain your debt-base and you inevitably increasingly disappoint and lose your existing loyal customer base.

This is where I think following growth overly aggressively will almost always compromise your long-term goals.  I remember very clearly expressing it at the time as being.  "You have a choice.  You can grow aggressively and force yourself to compete below the clouds with all the lower cost lines to steal some of their volume or you can go above the clouds where there is currently no competition and grow more slowly but more certainly - but with the advantage of little or no competition".  It was this exact philosophy that won us the relationship.

It was clearly accelerated growth rather than organic growth that was the strategy that was pursued and you and I and others have therefore been left as orphans and deprived of somewhere to spend our hard-earned cash.

I remain sadly and pathetically upset that such an enormous opportunity has still yet to be grasped permanently by any line.  But what do I know.

Jeff

1 minute ago, spinnaker2 said:

Thanks for your good thoughts Jeff. We canceled our cruise before any further penalty. We will take some time out and reflect on the new approach/philosophy of Silversea. 

Thanks Spins,

FWIW, as a result of some lines too aggressively “making hay whilst the sun shines” I have no doubt at all that the extraordinary surge in cruisers converging with the overly compromised quality issues will inevitably open up in time an enormously attractive and highly profitable opportunity for a cruise-line to fill the vacuum with a top-notch product roughly where SS was when it started. There is an enormously lucrative market for the taking,  This is inevitable,  When is the question.

Good luck with your plans. 

Jeff

12 minutes ago, Port Power said:

No. I have coeliac disease and adhere to a gluten free diet.  There used to be a wonderful patisserie that made delicious pies and an excellent Italian loaf, but they shut up shop years ago.  I lost my recipe for orange almond cake.  Boiling whole oranges is a great way to start making a cake!   

Only recently (it turns out that I am a very slow learner …..) had I decided to write down exactly what I do when making stuff so that I can then make adjustments for “next time” rather than relearn from scratch every time.

So what I did was:

1.  Boil two whole extra large oranges for one hour, then cut open and de-pip and then blend it all to a fine pulp.

2. Blend 5 eggs with 250gms of ground almond and 250 gms caster sugar with a squirt of honey and a teaspoon of baking powder - and add the orange pulp and bake.

I’d not adjust this recipe when I make it next.  I don’t think the baking powder will harm you.  

This makes two loaf cakes. 

Jeff

5 hours ago, Port Power said:

 

I wish I could eat bread!   I never see gluten free bread that looks this good.  I have baked my own GF bread in the past, but I don't eat enough of it to make that a regular past time.

It’s a real shame that you need GF. Can you tolerate a small amount of gluten? 

By coincidence yesterday I made some lovely orange almond cake that was very good.  It is gluten free and although it is unphotogenic it is extraordinary.  

It seemed a waste to have it with tea and so Amaretto is a proper substitute. 

6 hours ago, FlyingScotSailors said:

@UKCruiseJeff Jeff, as you probably saw, we thought your analysis of current cruise pricing/offerings was very astute.

 

Back to this thread (😳), here is our pizza dinner tonight.  A bit of pent up passover demand.

 

 

 

Not as fancy as your oven, but it reaches 700F and produces a nice pie in about 9 minutes.

 

That dough edge is something you should be proud of.  A very nice pie! 

🙂

Jeff

Supper was rusticly simple.

On 4/30/2024 at 2:04 PM, spinnaker2 said:

We noticed many changes onboard our last several cruises. So many that we cancelled a long cruise. We did also write to Silversea corporate but have heard nothing. Are you of the opinion that RCI will listen to the pax who have voiced their dismay over the changes? 

Hello Spins.

Your question isn't directed at me but I wanted to be helpful because I've been thinking about this topic for a while and simply wanted to help by suggesting some opinion that I haven't seen fleshed out and which you might wish to factor into your decision making.  You have an extremely tough decision and actually I don't believe anyone can provide you with the degree of reassurance you seek in order to rationally decide.

FWIW, I don't think this issue is about WHETHER RCI or any line are listening.  I think they certainly listen but at the moment they might not be responsive in the way you hope.  I think your question might not be IF they are listening but WHEN (if ever) they might respond and change in the way you need to be confident about future bookings. I think your question might better be "Will RCI upgrade my experience to my level of aspiration within the time-frame I need".  I can't answer that but offer a summary of my take on what is going on and the factors you need to resolve for yourself.

The Covid issue has provided two converging factors that to me seem to be pertinent. 

Firstly there is a compelling need for all lines to make up for lost ground.  This isn't a "nice to have"  but existential for all players to manage extraordinary debt as well as financing future plans.  This issue is enormous.  This means making as much money as they can to refill their heavily depleted coffers as quickly as possible.  Secondly, at the same time there has been a post-Covid surge in bookings from the pent-up demand from existing cruisers who have had a couple of years plus of no cruising opportunity and "cruise bereavement" plus the unprecedented extraordinary demand from first time cruisers who are entering the pool for the first time.  This is a (probably) unrepeatable opportunity for the industry.

These factors mean that the lines currently do not consider the need for nurturing loyalty from their base because they can both fill the ships at premium rates and reduce costs at the same time.  I don't think that from their point of view there is a downside to this approach for a while.  What "a while" means is unknown. What you need to calibrate is at what point in the future do you believe that the quality of the product will be brought into high focus because that initial avalanche of loyal and new customers post-covid is reducing and makes delighting earlier customers and new customers who might not even have experience the quality that you have -  important for their future business.  It's my sense that this is not imminent. In summary I don't think at the moment any line needs to look after long-term loyal customers. In fact it is more profitable to let them go for the time being.  They can ride the wave of the inexperienced and gullible for some time yet.  Your question is for how long and might I have better value if I go down market for a while,  If you get my drift.

I have no idea whether what I've said is helpful or intelligible or founded on sound thinking. I just felt your pain and hoped I might offer some considerations for you to discard. 

Bestest wishes and good luck with your thoughts.

Jeff

58 minutes ago, lincslady said:

Are you still doing the annual trips to Singapore, Jeff?  I used to enjoy seeing how it has changed since I was last there some 30 years ago.  And the food stories of course.

 

Lola

Good afternoon L.

The very short answer is that as you know we use to go two or three times a year for a few weeks at a time and it was a really important core part of our lives.    However for several reasons post-covid we have reluctantly decided that these trips probably have ended for us and any more are unlikely.  There are many reasons that all converge to a “no”.

We’ve been extremely fortunate to have experienced what we did, as is true of so much of our lovely travels and I suspect that for example your memories of an earlier Singapore is something we’d have loved to experience.  

Many of us I fear have might have to reluctantly come to terms with the idea that so much of the joys of travel and the destinations aren’t where we left them and it is sometimes better to shrug and move on and simply enjoy the memories.

We are probably very much a minority in these ideas.

Jeff  

12 hours ago, Lirio said:

Finally in Auckland in my favorite hotel......During the flight an amazing experience I would like to share.

The flight is Rio de Janeiro (4 hours) to Santiago (2 hours on ground) to Auckland (12 hours). After Auckland (with 2 hours on ground) more 4 hours up to Sydney-Australia. My mission finished in Auckland.

Just behind us in the 1st leg we noticed 2 senior ladies which seems mother and daughter.

We noticed that the flight attendants were very keen to the ladies. Right before we landed in Santiago, one flight attendant mention, for the surprise of all business class passengers (just 3 rows with 4 seats in each row), that the mother is 102 years old and a frequently flyer!

We arrived in Santiago and went straight to the Latam Lounge (very, very good) and later arrived in the gate for embarkation to find the 2 ladies preparing to board. I could not believe that the 102 years old lady would face more 12 hours in a plane!

Well, we chatted a bit and not only the 12 hours, but all the way to Sydney where she lives. And the daughter told me that a month ago they were in Egypt. The mother loves to travel!

 

Immediately I advised my daughter that is the new target for us!

Lirio,

That's a really lovely story and a real reminder to wimps like me that feel totally defeated by long-haul travel and even shorter travel.  It sounds to me like this lady has had and is enjoying the life of three more sedate and normal people. 

I'll have to look at some travel again .....

Thanks for posting the story.

Jeff

Coolers,

Some lovely young gouda arrived today from  my favourite award winning British cheese master.  He has promised me that when he has a moment he is going to make me some young cumin gouda.  Sadly the Dutch seem to like mature gouda and getting young Komijnekass seems impossible. It is odd that so much of the very best gouda now seems to be made in Britain now.   This is good because buying from Holland use to be so unpredictable quality-wise.  

So inevitably the cheese delivery of course meant some more onion, nigella and Guerande salt ficelle which was an extremely scrummy marriage. 

For those boring people like me who are of a doughy disposition, I have not been able to get out of my mind making some sweet malt lite baguettes which I’ve just roughly scraped together and put in the fridge to doze and plan to try it in the next day or three.  I want it to have an open crumb and not be stodgy hence some time in the fridge.  I think it would be nice with rasberry jam.  And probably even cheese.  

Don’t I lead the most exciting of lives? 🙂

17 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

That's the thing about doing a "live from" or giving one's personal experiences and thoughts: there'll always be someone prepared to let you know you're wrong. 

“Never explain — your friends do not need it, and your enemies will not believe you anyway.” – Elbert Hubbard.

Or as improved on by our wonderful late Queen always said “Never complain, never explain”

Perhaps I learned a bit too late ….. 🙂

Jeff

1 hour ago, mauimary said:

 

Thank you for the nice welcome. 

 

It turns out that you’ve found some new drinking chums and received a really great and wonderful welcome from the wonderful  Cooler Clux Clan!  See what you’ve missed!

I don’t wish to alarm you and sound like a vampire but some new fresh blood is particularly welcome and I don’t mean to push you but do you by any chance make loaf cakes of any description?  Or cook in any way.  Even if just beans and toast.  That will do to start.  Post a piccy. 

Loaf cakes is the way to go.  Round cakes are a completely daft idea and totally impractical.  Pie v Pi. 

Today’s fruit loaf cake to join afternoon Twinnings. It is a monster and I think might have a week’s width. 

Jeff

1 hour ago, mauimary said:

Hello to all the coolers. I’ll come forward as being one of those lurkers   for probably close to ten years! Yes in the wings!   It all started years ago on a cold winter day I was browsing the boards and came across the cooler.  I found the cooler to be interesting, informative and entertaining and just a really nice group of posters.    I loved reading about everyone’s interesting travels to many different areas of the world.  Loved reading about Jeff’s breads.   Very impressive how Jeff started the water cooler and it has lasted all these years.  All do to a great group of contributors.  
We have not cruised on Silver Sea  yet but have been looking at a few itineraries closely.  We have been predominantly Celebrity Cruisers  but are looking to branch out to a different line of smaller ships. 

Welcome …. and thanks for responding to the call!  

Where do you normally take your vacations?

I’m so pleased you mentioned me and my bread! I hardly need an excuse to post my daily bread. 

Tonight was a couple of 5 day onion and nigella ficelles which were made with some Aberdeen Angus Beef with horseradish. They were good.  I hope you can taste it.

Jeff

All due to my time working for a large US Corporation when much of my time was better spent around the Cooler than having formal meetings!

🙂 

1 minute ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Maybe you're not quite as old as you think:  it's only around 40,000 posts...

 

The way the earlier segments were archived, I can't get to a screen that would show total views, sorry.  I could find that post #1 in segment 1 was on August 9, 2013.

I could never add up. 🙂

7 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Greetings to you Jeff and thanks for starting this Cooler enterprise!

 

I did a little sleuthing for you and was able to determine the following statistics about the five segments of the Silversea Water Cooler:

#1     5,264 posts     2013-2015

#2     5,035 posts     2015-2016

#3     5,118 posts     2016-2017

#4     5,188 posts     2017-2018

#5     20,319 posts   2018-present

 

When Cruise Critic was running under the old software (probably using vacuum tubes and hamsters spinner mini-generators!), threads got very unwieldy above 5,000 posts so it was necessary to cut them off and start another segment.  The new software, for all its own limitations, doesn't seem to have such upper limits so this segment will presumably go on forever.  

 

I added the dates to show that once the cooler caught on activity has been pretty consistent at around 5,000 posts per year, even in the latest segment and despite economic booms and busts and plagues and other disasters.  I thought that was pretty amazing!

 

Keep up the good work everyone!  And, as Jeff says, let's all work to keep the Cooler a welcoming happy place.

Thanks so much for taking that trouble as I thought it might be impossible to do.  Good Grief Host J!  60,000 posts'ish.  And thanks for the kind words, which are very much appreciated.  I'll pluck up courage and ask whether it is possible to ascertain the total views? 200k?  And when was the first post?  I can't seem to find it and the 60k posts sparked interest. 

I feel so much older.  Silverseas has of course changed since the  Cooler started and isn't where many of us have affectionately left it - and of course so have all of us got older and for some lucky people even wiser.  So much has happened and changed our horizons including Covid and now even Burgergate. 🙂

I must admit I thought The Cooler might last for a drink or two around the bar and might fizzle out or be shut down after a month or two.  My motivation was purely experimental to see whether an online small community to simply be congenial and now it seems to fulfill the needs of evolving and slightly changing memberships  and it is what the current inmates want of it. 

My only slight disappointment is that more haven't joined who might really want to and it worries me that there must be some who visit and who vicariously  sit in a dark corner by themselves and it would be wonderful if they felt comfortable and posted. They don't have to say anything profound really - it can be about whatever is their interest.  Although I asked before that people only focused on the post rather than the poster (I think not doing say has damaged so many communities avoidably which form cliques and simply swap likes with friends)  - it would be nice if first posters received a really effusive welcome from everyone who happens to be around to encourage the nurture and friendship and say thanks for the first post in order to nurture.  Even more so in a way, I'm acutely aware as we all get older of my own good fortune to have long-suffering company but we all know that some do not and it would be great real role for the Cooler if it helped with some peoples' isolation who we may not yet know.  If some who are solo didn't feel intimidated and joined.  That isn't to decry those like me who have a partner and in my case when I do post these days all I ever talk about is my going on about bread and lunch and avoid those topics that are sort of out of bounds like the deteriorating nature of stuff around us.  I hope we can collectively do that because it would be a real achievement.

Anyway thanks again for your effort.  I'm off to bake this evenings ficelle

Bestest

Jeff x

17 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

You are plenty worthy Lola.

 

As to explaining it – me?  I don't even see the same numbers you all do.  [When a post is hidden it reduces the count for the public, but Hosts still see the hidden post so our numbers are always higher.  When I want to refer to a post by number I have to log out and check the public number...]

Good Morning,

Your post made me wonder, and it may be that this question isn't possible to answer as so much stuff has probably been vaulted and may be lost for good.  I do remember the first few posts but cannot remember when that was!

I think all of us are a bit surprised that The Cooler has survived and been vibrant for so long.  Who would have thought?! 

Are you able to estimate how many posts and views there has been since Cooler #1 through 2,3,4,and #5 until today.  'ish?

To add my Greetings to all Coolers and may I add the wish and aspiration that any lurkers make the jump and make their first and second post and participate however rare and join in.  It is nice to have "newness" and variety of interests even if it is only idiots like me obsessed with bread and food and  trivia.

To that end may I express the hope that all contributions from anyone and everyone should continue to be made to feel welcome ( ... it should be the post not the poster that is liked) and  the hope that the Cooler never accidentally morphs into any form of cliques or partizanism and remains true to the unique and precious ethos that encouraged every participant make their very first posts and continue to always being generously spirited and  welcoming to all and everyone. 

🙂

Jeff