SpartacusMD

2 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

Well, liberty is more important to me than safety from a virus with a greater than 99% survival. I’m vaccinated so I’m not worried but I certainly understand people hesitation with allowing people to discriminate based on personal  health decisions. 

Liberty is a two way street. Actually it's more like a multi-way spider web.

You have the liberty to not get a vaccine and royal Caribbean has the liberty to require a vaccine. You also have the liberty of going to a resort somewhere that has taken the liberty of allowing non vax guests.

The government has to keep order when multiple people's liberties conflict. And they won't please everyone but at least they'll keep the order and that's their job. That's why we pay them.

13 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

It's interesting to observe the same people who advocated for ridiculously strict government mandated lockdowns and restrictions on businesses all for the greater good now don't want a govt. having any say in how a business runs it's business. Even when that govt is attempting to protect fundamental civil liberties all for the greater good.

I think that's an oversimplification. The people who wanted lockdowns want maximum safety. And quite frankly, if you are vaccinated then you should be able to do whatever you want..

The problem is that somehow this all became political.

I'm not sure how and why masks and vaccines became political.

5 hours ago, Biker19 said:

For others who may not have read it:

 

Frank Del Rio expressed disappointment in his first read of the CDC's newly issued cruise guidelines and called Florida's order banning businesses from asking for documentation of COVID-19 vaccination 'an issue.'

 

Most of all, he stressed the power of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings' commitment to 100% crew and passenger vaccination on top of the Healthy Sail Panel's protocols as an 'iron-clad' approach.

 

It's unclear, Del Rio said Thursday, if the 'numerous and onerous' items spelled out in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's new guidance apply to vaccinated voyages as well.

 

A 'preposterous' masking example

In the agency's highly detailed and prescriptive operations manual for simulated and restricted voyages, one mask-related point states: 'While the order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this order.'

 

Del Rio considers that 'preposterous' for a fully vaccinated ship.

 

'In between bites of your meal and sips of your drink, you have to put on and take off masks. So nobody should order soup, because your mask may get sloppy,' he said.

 

'It's not in the spirit of where the country is headed, where President Biden wants to open the country. Seventy percent of Americans will be vaccinated by the beginning of the third quarter. We hope we're reading it wrong. We hope there'll be clarifications. We hope some of these more onerous requirements in Phase 2B only apply to cruises, ships, brands that are not going to vaccinate ...'

CDC loophole for COVID introduction to crew

And when it comes to vaccination, Del Rio can't fathom CDC's call for 98% of crew and 95% of passengers in order to bypass trial voyages. He thinks it should be 100%.

 

'I don't understand 98%. You have a big ship, You have 1,800 crew members on board, and you're going to vaccinate 1,764 of them, but not 36? What a loophole to allow potential COVID to be introduced in the crew area.

 

'One hundred percent, at least in the beginning, I believe, should be the model. If the CDC and the rest of the industry wants to go in another direction, great. We want to go 100%,' Del Rio stressed.

In any case, NCLH doesn't plan any trial voyages because it's going the fully vaccinated route, and everywhere. That applies to all ships and geographies, even outside the US.

 

In contrast, some major lines with vaccination mandates are taking one ship and geography at a time. 

 

No chance now to put additional ships out by July

There's no opportunity to put additional vessels out by July, Del Rio told analysts during today's business update, because it takes 90 days to start up a ship. When NCLH came out with its full vaccination plan and asked CDC to waive the conditional sailing order on April 6, there was time to get ships in service by July. Now, a month later, CDC hasn't addressed that so it's not going to be possible. As a result, the company is focused on starting up its first six ships outside the US in July, August and September.

Perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged

Why cruising is being singled out from airlines and other businesses leaves Del Rio 'perplexed, flabbergasted and outraged ... We're willing to vaccinate every single person on a cruise ship. There isn't another venue on Earth, not a school, not a factory, not your office or apartment building, much less an entertainment venue like a casino, hotel or resort can make that claim. We will be the safest place on earth by definition.'

 

On top of the vaccination mandate are the Health Sail Panel protocols.

'That one-two punch is unbeatable,' Del Rio asserted. 'No one else has it, yet, the CDC continues continues to treat us differently, unfairly.' He added it's not like the CDC has managed the virus so well in the US, which ranks No. 1 for deaths and hospitalizations.

 

'Yet they pick on the cruise industry in the extreme.'

The NCLH chief expressed his hope that the twice-weekly calls with CDC will improve the situation, as he said happened with Phase 2A. During this afternoon's call, his company plans to communicate that the newly published Phase 2B and 2C are 'unacceptable in many areas.'

Florida's vaccine passport ban could drive away ships

As for Gov. Ron DeSantis's vaccine passport ban —  his April 2 executive order states that 'Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon or service from the business' — it's a classic state-federal legal conflict, Del Rio said.

NCLH is talking with the governor's office and Del Rio said lawyers believe federal takes precedence here. But he hopes it doesn't become a legal or political football.

 

'There are other states we do operate from, and we can operate from the Caribbean with ships that would have sailed from Florida. We certainly hope it doesn't come to that. Everyone wants to operate out of Florida. It's a very lucrative market. It's a close drive market. But it's an issue. We can't ignore it. We hope everyone in pushing in the same direction. We want to resume cruising in the safest possible manner.'

 

Del Rio pokes holes CDC cruise stance, Florida vaccine passport ban (seatrade-cruise.com)

Further proof that Florida continues to lag behind in common sense.

Why would you be opposed to a private company mandating vaccinations?!? 

On 4/24/2021 at 2:22 PM, BirdTravels said:

Because 100% of the vaccinated people on board can catch COVID and potentially spread COVID. The vaccine does not prevent you from catching COVID. It only reduces the chance of you having moderate or serious symptoms when you catch COVID, thus reducing the time when you potentially spread the disease. So, in your US domestic airports and on your domestic connecting flights (packed like sardines in a tin can) you can catch COVID if you are careless and bring it onboard with you. That COVID would not be detected until a few days into the cruise. 

As a physician, I'd like to stay that you are spreading misinformation. Please go read up before you post disinformation like this.

The vaccines reduce your chance of getting and spreading covid to what is essentially an insignificant number.

having a hard time deciding between sabor and giovanni's. I havent been to either and I'm just looking for a unique and GOOD experience.

Remember no meat on fridays. See food only!!

huh?

First time on RCI in less than 2 weeks on NOS! Was wondering what food items from the buffet, MDR, or room service are "must haves." Carnival has their chocolate melting cake so what does RCI have?!?!:D

If you get the soda package, can you use it to get a coke while you are at Johnny Rockets???

The upgrade fairy has visited me today on my very first trip on a royal ship, navigator of the seas to be specific, and I was upgraded from an interior stateroom to a large oceanview!! :) Whats the difference between a large oceanview and a regular one? Looking at the deck plans they look like exactly the same thing...

Spartacus,

 

I am on the March2 sailing with you. Unfortunately my DH is in that 50's crowd you were talking about on the roll call...I am 49 and holding as of this year...:D but we both love all kinds of music. Everything from old rock and roll to the new stuff. George Strait is from TX but so is ZZ Top!! In my book age is just a number...it's the mind that matters:cool:! I am pretty sure we could request any songs we want from the bands or DJ so don't hesitate to ask. Our cruise will be what we make it so let's go have a great time! See you on 3/2!

Its not an age thing I swear!!! Haha, we will definitely have a blast. See you in a few weeks :)

Thanks guys! That was informative. So excited!

I read that on the blog too!!!

I'm not trying to downplay anyone's musical preferences but country western is just about my least favorite genre. I do very much hope my experience on the navigator won't be affected by this. I know its in Texas and all but some of us are trying to get away from the states and I was hoping for a more "neutral" ship experience.

Another point is that the Navigator took away some free public spaces for the new pay restaurants. No more deck 14 card room and Cloud 9, or deck 3/4 disco. I think the Viking Crown on deck 14 is the disco now, which I guess means one less place for live music at night.

This is true and all, but they also did add the flow rider. Overall public space did decrease on the ship but not in areas where most people would notice. From my understanding the old nightclub the "dungeon" wasn't very popular anyways and the deck/card rooms were under utilized.

So while it is easy to say they just replaced public space with private fee places, I think they did strike a good balance.

Then maybe you shouldn't make baseless accusations you can't or won't back up. It seems the only one here who has been intolerant of differing opinions is you.

 

I'm sorry that I don't agree with you. I completely respect your opinion, I just don't happen to share it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having differing opinions. And when someone has a differing opinion, they usually share WHY. That is what has happened here. You propose that this trend will stop if we all object to it. And you are likely correct. However, I do not believe you have given any merit to the fact that a good number of us do not WANT to see this trend stop. However all you've done is dismiss those dissenting opinions as somehow belittling you.

 

Tell you what, if your preference is to express your opinion and only hear from people who agree with you, this might not be the best forum. It's really a shame you can't get past this, because this thread actually has a lot of great thoughts from BOTH SIDES of the debate in it. But somehow, you've taken the whole thing as some sort of affront to you personally. This might not be the right forum for you.

Many people in this thread have disagreed with me. Few people have disagreed with me AND used childish name calling while doing it. You sound like a very angry person. I really hope everything works out for you because this is just a thread in a forum about restaurants on cruise ships. First world problems, check yourself dude.

Please feel free to reference ANY post I have made that has in any way insinuated mine is the only opinion that counts. I'll wait here patiently for you to do so.

I have better things to do with my time. Plus, no matter what I show you, I doubt you'll be convinced.

 

 

This would carry more credibility if you had not responded to such comments with insults of your own. The argument "he started it" hasn't worked since kindergarten and it doesn't work now. Your hands are just as dirty, so you don't get to walk the high road now.

This is a thread I started and the original post is my opinion...I'm sorry but I really don't need you to verify my "credibility" whatever that means when we're talking about opinions. Although you have been pretty much belligerently stating this entire thread that yours is the only opinion that counts. There is no he or she did it first...there is my original post and then there were multiple comments about what a whiner I am. End of story.

I have not read the thread in its entirity but the first few pages suggested the direction of cruise line to consumer manipulation of "what is and should be consumed" at least to fill the bottom line.

 

That is the point though, the bottom line, and thus the opposite of what the OP suggests. Allow me to digress a bit from the subject at hand and to make a comparison to my market which is programming. I have been accused of manipulating but the truth be told my clients want X,Y,Z or I lose out and so I have to meet the demand or not have demand at all.

 

Without getting too boring, cruise lines are meeting demand, it is us the consumer that create this, not the cruise line down to the consumer. If the demand were not there, the speciality restaurants would fail.

 

So let me handle the likely rebuttal:

The food in the MDR is now lower (on purpose) and so speciality restaurants are sought out.

well, i have been on carnival many times, the supper club(signature, chef's table) is more like say going to Tony's here in Houston vs say Outback steakhouse. Does my demand for MDR get supplemented to the Supper Club? No.. It's a one time treat usually. But let's take a look at other speciality restaurants, like Guy's Burger joint or Sushi, Ji Ji Asian or BBQ for example... but these are normally their own worlds of food, adding to the variety outside of MDR or the buffet. Can a cruise line be everything to all taste buds for free? That is the question, i would say, very hard to do, especially take with RCI, i love the sushi on Izumi and they specialize in that, should the MDR as well? Should the MDR on RCI specialize in what Sabor does?

 

If we read the boards here many times posters will say how boring cruise x will be if they keep going to the same ports or do x, y or z... the opinions here should be logic enough to tell you that indeed cruise lines are trying to be all things to as many of us as they can, but it can't be done for free.

 

That said, another point, I would say the demographics while strong for speciality are not there in sufficient number. On every cruise i have been room service seems to be the largest hit followed by the buffet. I think speciality has a long way to go supplement "free."

 

Another example, RCI now allows unlimited alcohol for individuals again to meet demand of frustrated consumers complaining about "not everyone in the same stateroom wants it." I have a hard time of seeing consumer manipulation, just the opposite.

You should have read further then because we're long past that discussion. The discussion devolved into name calling, bickering, and just general stupidity by those who think this is a discussion not worth having and that "if you don't like the specialty restaurants, don't go" or "to each his own" or "stop complaining." All of these comments miss the point......which you correctly addressed in your post.

I agree that the consumer creates the demand. I tried hinting at this earlier. Now that you've taken a bite..I'll ask the obvious question: Instead of creating demand for restaurants we must pay for, why don't we create a demand for higher quality food in the MDR that is included in the price?

Really?? just a bit dismissive don't ya think?

You don't seem to get the Op's point here. well or anyone's for that matter.:)

A lot of people in this thread are having a hard time making the distinction between being unhappy and ungrateful and happy and grateful but speculative about the future.

You MUST accept that the ala cart experience is superior otherwise you are labeled a whiner and complainer.

The title of this thread is "MY VIEW ON...." Why some people have been belligerent in this thread is just beyond me.

I strongly disagree with your insinuations. First of all, I was not calling it "banquet food" as a knock.

I really can't take anyone seriously when they say things like "MDR food is a step above Denny's." So when people say things like that their credibility goes out of the window. I'm not sure what kind of banquets you've been going to but I would consider banquet food to be a positive thing. I think the person you replied to ha a different experience and thats why theres a discrepancy there.

Either way, 35$ pp, + 18$ for the aged beef +the price of the meal at the MDR which I won't be eating that night is never ever going to happen in my family. A ruth's chris meal winds up costing less.

I'm just curious ...... How many of the folks slamming the MDR for being low quality or banquet-like cook at a gourmet level each night at home? How many actually care to have that gourmet edge to the food each meal? :confused:

We tend to order dishes in the MDR that I don't normally cook at home - stepping out of our normal menu comfort zones- and have been, on the whole, very happy with the MDR menus.

 

Reading this thread one would believe that the food in the MDR "sucks" and I don't believe that's the case. There are posters in this thread who make it sound like there is something less than acceptable that someone might actually enjoy the MDR dining experience. We enjoy it .... and there are 100's and 100's of folks eating in the MDR who are very happy with the experience, the choices and quality.:cool:

To a new cruiser or someone considering their first cruise the attitudes toward the MDR are very off-putting. One would believe that if you're not prepared to pay for specialty dining each and every evening you may well go hungry. Just MHO

 

PS ... I'm glad there are choices for everyone - but demeaning the choices of those who don't go along with your opinions just isn't fair.

I don't think anyone in this thread ever said the MDR food sucks, at least I didn't.

In fact I'm arguing the opposite, I'm fearful the MDR by become a relic of the past.

Anyways, I better go back into hiding before the fanboys come out and start bashing me for having an opinion and "complaining."

if you have a galaxy s4...it will allow you to play around with the inputs of any tv :D

Anyways, it seems like some people are REALLY REALLY REALLY attached to the ala cart and speciality dining experience lol. Enough so that a conversation about whether this is a good or bad thing is simply not possible.

I'm out guys. Take care!

Given your thumbs down in the title and the content of your post (after reading it twice), I understand what you're saying but I think it's hard for anyone to come away thinking your not complaining.

So you want to play semantics then?Would it make you feel better if I said I were complaining? Can we then have a discussion where people aren't putting rolleyes emoticons everywhere and insulting me?

Oh, so that big "THUMBS DOWN" symbol you put in the subject means you AREN'T complaining. Now I get it.

 

That's like me saying your being narrow minded and stupid. But I INSIST that I am not insulting you.:rolleyes:

Having an opinion is not the same thing as complaining. Whats my gain to complain? I'm not sure how stating an opinion (which many have agreed with) is narrow minded and stupid. You're just pissed off that I have a different opinion than you. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wow. Coming off a bit arrogant, aren't we?

 

So what if everything goes ala cart? As long as the base price of cruising continues to go down relative to inflation like it has for the last 30 years, the overall out of pocket cost per person will still need to beat inflation in order to cover rising expenses for the company to still make it's profit margins.

 

Some people will pay as little as they possibly can, just like they do now, and be happy with it.

 

Some people will pay for more premium options, essentially subsidizing the costs of the people who pay as little as possible, and be happy with it.

 

Which is pretty much what has always happened.

 

How is it any different than cabin categories when you look at it solely on the basis of cost per square foot?

 

 

Disclaimer: I've been on 5 cruises, and have dined in 1 specialty restaurant 1 time, and also did the sushi making class in Izumi.

Arrogant? Go back and read his quote "You can't do simple math" and then proceeded to tell me to take an econ 101 class when I teach a class 5 levels above that. Its not arrogance, I'm just putting out my credentials so no one else tries to teach me "simple math."

Your other points are valid and hey thats an opinion. Izumi sounds really really good and I'm tempted to try it!