ejammer

Yes, HAL did come through with flying colors, and our first cruise was an absolutely AMAZING experience filled with wonderful memories that will last a lifetime! The entire trip was much more than we could have ever expected, and to simply say it was well worth the wait is such a tremendous understatement. HAL has certainly succeeded in completely erasing any ill feelings, resentment, or otherwise negative memories from our first attempt. :)

 

Along with all the typical cruiser shipboard, port, and shore excursion adventures, my wife, and I just can't say enough good things about the courtesy, expertise, and professionalism of the entire Eurodam amenities, staff, and crew. Everything was first class all the way. I have really never seen so many genuinely happy smiling workers in one place before in my life. They must have a special "Happy Smiling Faces" training school or something. Whatever their secret, it works! It will be a long time before we will be able to wipe those contagious smiles off our own content faces. :)

 

Yes, to say it was all well worth the wait would be a tremendous understatement! Thank each of you so much who contributed your advice, feedback, and support. Thank you travel ombudsman Christopher Elliot for you advice and contribution. Thank you Congressman Phil Roe, and your expert congressional staff, for assisting me with obtaining my CRBA and passport. And especially, thank you Holland America Lines for helping make our first dream cruise become a reality! :)

 

Finally, as a special bonus, one of the many shipboard activities offered aboard the Eurodam were several Digital Workshop seminars. I attended a few of those, and learned a lot about editing in Photo Gallery and Movie Maker from the ships techspert, Jane. This is my first attempt at using some of what I learned by creating a short movie of our departure from St. Thomas. Until next time...:)

Since everyone loves a happy ending, thought I should share an update. Everything worked out terrifically! My wife and I are flying out of Knoxville tomorrow headed for our 2nd attempt on the exact same ship and destinations we were headed for last winter. Amazing, I know. Will post more later, AFTER, we actually accomplish our much anticipated adventure. :)

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=40683237&postcount=151

ejammer --

 

Did you ever contact HAL at any other time, besides the referenced online chat, to discuss required documentation for your cruise, as intimated in the blog?

 

Yes. A few days after the chat convo, when I was having a problem figuring out the online early registration, I called the HAL documentation department. They asked me to email the question to them. We exchanged a few emails. The final one they sent me included a list of detailed questions concerning my birth history. I replied back to them with the answers. I also called my travel agent to inform her of this.

 

A day or so later my travel agent called to inform me she had been in contact with the docs folks and everything was taken care of, and that my German birth certificate and Tennessee drivers license would be acceptable. She also recommended I take a translated copy of my BC, and any other documentation that might help establish my residence to perhaps help speed up the process at the port. She then mailed us our boarding passes a couple days later. I never heard anything else to the contrary from HAL until we got to the pier.

I haven't read through all 18 pages of replies to this thread and was unable to read the JPEG of the transcript from the OP, so don't fault me if this has been explored already.

 

I was referred to this discussion from Christopher Elliott's article, in which he references the chat transcript:

 

He sent me the chat transcript.

 

Here’s an excerpt:

 

Purkey: I have the original birth certificate. Will this be OK?

 

HAL: YES, that is totally fine.

 

 

So, what I am wondering is what exactly the HAL rep understood by the term "original birth certificate". Was there further conversation describing the special circumstances regarding the OP's birth certificate? If not, then the HAL rep probably understood the passenger to mean that he held his original birth certificate from a birth in the United States.

 

Is the HAL rep who chatted with the passenger the same rep that noted the booking in POLAR?

.

 

One of the more readable versions of the complete transcript can be found on page 10, post #183 of this thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=37171785#post37171785

 

I think it will answer most of your questions. Not sure why Chris only posted that brief part in his story. Perhaps, to elicit responses. If so, it worked well.

 

P.S. What the hecks a POLAR, and what's that got to do with it anywho? I've never been to the North Pole either! Does Santa need a passport too?! Or is he covered in the closed loop loophole? Don't dare ask Dana!!:rolleyes:

Thank you, sapete. Sounds great! I'm on board with that idea. :) Adding it to the list of several excellent suggestions I've found on here.

There are HAL staff that read the CC boards; some of them actually know who some of us are ;) As staff member once told me he knew who I was on CC. I am sure it was more a case of figuring it out from actions (e.g. organizing the Meet and Greet) that some other "sinister" way. :)

 

I know that someone from the Excursion Desk on a previous cruise monitored the boards to see what comments are made and how it could help to improve things.

 

I think the proper way to handle specific issues is direct contact between the passenger and HAL, not a message board.

 

Dear HAL staff message board reader, I realize Mr. Kruse must be much busier than Mr. Del Rio, however, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could please ask him to have someone, have someone, have someone, at least reply to the direct email I sent him 9 days ago! Although I have never organized a Meet and Greet ;), I do know a LOT of folks, and have an extensive sphere of influence. I would be eager to consider becoming one of Holland America Lines most vocal cheerleaders if given a fair chance.

 

P.S. In case there really are no HAL staff message board readers on here, could one of you Oceania thread followers please cell Mr. Del Rio, and ask him to please text Mr. Kruse for me?:rolleyes:

You're correct. In the course of this very long and involved thread, I was misled by (or misinterpreted) the information in Post#271. :eek:

 

 

 

Actually, I did read the entire thread, over the course of the several days it has been running. I'm sorry I got your wife's nationality wrong, but I'm not the only one to glean incorrect information. Now I've gone back and re-read the entire thread, my head is spinning, but I see where I went wrong.

 

Please don't assume I didn't read the thread initially. Actually, some of it is so involved and confusing that it might have been better if I hadn't done so!

 

Perhaps the time has come for a brief summary that will cut through all the assumptions, accusations and miscommunications?

 

I wish you all the best for resolution of your situation. :)

 

I sincerely apologize for assuming you did not read half this relentless thread, and offer high-five kudos for completing the daunting task of actually reading it in its entirety. I agree a brief summary may be in order. The majority of my case details and position can mostly be found on the following posts in this thread:

#1 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37152005&postcount=1

#9 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37152663&postcount=9

#77 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37156743&postcount=77

#121 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37161812&postcount=121

#166 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37169525&postcount=166

#183 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37171785&postcount=183

 

IMO, the summary of other opinions and advice I have received in this thread include:

 

(Paraphrased/Approximately 50%) If you want to call yourself an American, you are required to have a passport to even go to the bathroom. HAL is the best cruise line in the universe, and should not be held accountable for what their employees tell you. Even if you have never been on a cruise before in your life, you are expected to read the fine print, roll over, play dead, and accept this. Even though you must be a naive, un-American, never-been-outside-the country hillbilly idiot, we feel sorry for you, and wish you the best.

 

(Paraphrased/Approximately 50%) You don’t need a passport to go on a closed loop cruise, and that is common knowledge. It is a good idea to always have a passport whether you need one or not. Don’t believe what HAL reps tells you, they are notorious for giving you wrong, or bad info. You did your due diligence, and HAL should be held accountable for what their employees told you. We hope HAL does the right thing by giving you at least the cruise you paid for, among other good will gestures. We regret this could happen to you, or anyone, feel your pain, empathize with you, and wish you the best.

 

I have received a great deal of helpful information and tips here; some relevant, some not. For those with nothing better to do, or have an unquenchable thirst for even more specific details, advice, irrelevant facts, etc., get a bag of pop-corn, some Tylenol, sit back, and enjoy your morning, afternoon, or evening. :)

One step closer...... :)

 

Wouldn't it be great to have that little blue document in your hand should HAL decide in your favor?

 

That is wonderful news.

Congratulations.

You should be the proud holder of a U.S. Passport very soon. :)

 

Thank all of you so very much for your continued support, encouragement, and helpful info. Oh yeah! I will have me one of them there official experienced cruiser no-hassle blue boarding passes very soon. My U.S. Congressman friend says he can name that tune in 7 days! :)

One thing puzzles me:

 

• The OP was born in Germany, while his father (a US Citizen) was on active military service there.
  
• Apparently, he has a German birth certificate.
  
• His wife, who has a German passport, is allowed residence in the USA.
  
• The OP is also resident in the USA.
  

Surely, at some point, the OP must have produced some document that proved his right and that of his wife, to live in the USA?

Could this be the certificate certifying the birth of a US citizen abroad that some posters have talked about?

If it is, this should be the proof he needs, to apply for a US passport.

It would be the document that should have allowed him to board his cruise, if he had taken it to the port. I suspect he did not.

 

I'd like to hear from the OP that he is now able to get a passport, to avoid future hassles.

 

Gosh, I know there is a lot of information to cover in this long thread, but I expect there would be a lot fewer posts if everyone would read at least half of it prior to commenting.

 

Like Terri said, where in the world wide web did you get the notion my wife has a German passport?! She has always been an American citizen and has lived here all here life, except for a two weeks when she visited our son, who coincidentally ended up living in Germany. He too is an American born citizen of the good old U.S.A. Although, my wife wasn't born in a log cabin, she is about as down home southern country made in the U.S.A. as they come. She does speak French, however. She just likes the language. Oh no. Now I'll probably be reading this in a few days, and discover my wife is a spy from France!

 

Your suspicions are correct. I did not have the record of birth abroad document. How could I? Didn't know what one was until recently. Never left the U.S.A. once since arriving here at 8 months old. My mother never even heard of such a thing. My father has been deceased for 15 years. Evidently, it was something the U.S. Army Hospital did automatically. If the HAL representatives had told me I needed that, or any other document, instead of telling me the documentation I had would be acceptable, I could have had the opportunity to either have made an effort to get them, or at least saved myself the airfare, and a lot of other additional expenses, inconveniences, stress, and heart ache. But that is not what they told me. This was our first cruise ever! I trusted and had faith in the expert advice of the experience cruise line representatives. That was my big mistake, and their accountable error.

I wonder if that is possible for the OP since he apparently has no Consular Report of Birth Abroad.

 

Although, I didn't know what a CRBA was until last week, I just found out I do have one, and a copy is on the way to me. :D

I know there is a lot of discussion here ... but this is very simple.

 

If you are leaving the USA - you need a passport!

How could this even remotely be HAL's fault? - it is international law.

 

On the contrary, for those that actually read all the discussion here, it's been pretty well established here by many more experienced than I, that you do not necessarily need a passport on a closed loop cruise.

 

And, the answer to your question has also been covered multiple times here, and is very simple. Because a representative and experienced supervisor of HAL told me I didn't need a passport.

Reading the pdf at Post 175, Nikki stated: That's correct, it is WHTI compliant.

 

Nikki said it should be WHTI compliant, but it looks like this was quickly passed by in the conversation.

 

and ......an important fact is missing.

 

Customer: I was born at a US Army hospital in Landsthul Germany. My father was in the Army. My mother is German. I have the original German Issued birth certificate which indicates this. Will this be ok?

 

To those bashing HAL, I think this indicates that HAL did not give out erroneous information, .........and that HAL did not provide bad customer service.

 

IMO you are stating your misquoted opinions as fact here. Nikki never said "should be WHTI compliant", she said "is WHTI compliant".

 

And why would anyone (including Nikki and her experienced supervisor Dana) assume a person born in Germany would be issued a birth certificate from any other country other than Germany? Has anyone ever even heard of the U.S. military issuing their own birth certificates?

 

Another, not so obvious fact in that convo with Nikki, is that I was on hold for approximately 15 minutes as she responded with 3 "I'm still checking" type apologies, while she checked with her supervisor. IMO the fact is when I said to Nikki, "That sounds great! I just want to be sure. I'd hate to show up for my cruise, and not be able to go", and she replied with "I spoke with my supervisor Dana who is well familiar with this", she could have said, something like, "Well not really", or, "kinda, maybe, sorta", etc. But that is not what she said. Would anyone have questioned her further, or should I have believed these two expert representatives? Should I have said are you, and your "supervisor who is well familiar with this" really, really, really sure, or purdy please with sugar on top, could you also check with your supervisors supervisor, or your supervisors supervisors supervisor, or the CEO? Come on! Would anyone else have done that?...even an experienced traveler/cheerleader, much less a first timer like me?! :rolleyes:

4. The HAL representatives were woefully incorrect in advising the OP that his foreign-issued BC was acceptable.

5. The HAL contract covers them for this error by specifically stating it is the passenger's responsibility to determine if they have the correct documents to board and exempts HAL from advising passengers of the correct documentation.

 

Gosh, I figured I was being responsible in determining if I had the correct documents by contacting HAL and asking them?! Obviously, they did not "excempt" themselves from "advising" this passenger. In fact, as you can see, two of their representatives, including one supervisor, not only advised, but indeed, adamantly reassured this passenger that his documentation was correct.

 

I am confident that if any of the experienced seasoned cruisers on here had asked the same questions of the cruise line professionals on their very first cruise, and received the same response, that they too would have accepted the "expert" advice, and been in the same boat I was in...or not in...or denied being in...oh, you know what I mean.

IMO Nikki and Dana were right and the Captain (or whoever made the final decision) was wrong. ejammer had valid proof of US citizenship and a photo ID, and that's all the rules require.

 

What I wonder a bit is what ejammer's DW had for documentation? Was a b.c. and photo ID good enough for her but his was n.g. because it wasn't from a state or territory? No where do I find it stated what the requirements are for that b.c.

 

My wife has had a valid passport for a long time. She obtained it years ago in order to visit our son, who coincidentally, lives in Germany. She was very uncomfortably and offended as everyone (except me) at the port completely ignored her, leaving her feeling inconsequential as all this transpired.

Please come back and let us know how HAL deals with this.

I promise, one way, or the other, good or bad, all of you here, and as many other eyes and ears as I can find, anywhere and everywhere, for as many months or years as possible, will know the outcome of this! :)

I was going to mention using a travel agent but it sounds like you used one. I would think a travel agent would know this or would have checked into this situation on your behalf. If she or he did that would be one more person to verify your story to HAL.

 

This has probably alrady been mentioned but I wonder how insurance would have worked in this situation. Cancel for any reason insurance?

 

Don't dwell on it and let it make you crazy as hard as that may be.

 

My travel agent who cruises frequently, also assured me, as many on here have too, that while it may be a good idea to have a passport in case of emergency, since this was a closed-loop cruise, one would not be required. That is when I got on the HAL website chat line to confirm that.

 

We booked the cruise about a month prior, and being the overly optimistic soul that I am, declined the insurance. Oh, btw it is unnecessary to start beating me up about that now too. I get it. Passport! Insurance! My travel agent says the insurance would not have covered this particular incident anywho.

 

Not crazy...yet. ;) I've actually spend more time dwelling on this on here this weekend than I have since it happened. It has been very informative and helpful though, and I have already heard back from one ombudsman. We are working on that snail mail appeal suggestion too. It's been cold and rainy here in east Tennessee all weekend, so it's been a perfect time to stay inside, get some of this off my chest, and get edumacated some by you nice seasoned travel peeps.

Unfortunately I can not read that, even if I save the image and zoom in. (the text gets too pixilated) Can you enlarge the jpg and re-post or cut-and-paste the text directly into the body of a post? Thanks.

I see what you mean. Wonder if others have had this problem reading it? Can't copy and paste a jpg text though. I tried enlarging, uploading in various formats, etc., but none of those worked either. Fortunately though, as an additional backup, I also made a screen shot copy of the convo, and saved that too as a pdf (I'm overly cautious that way, and consequent have way too many saved files. My wife calls me a "file hoarder", but one never knows when you may need something. :)). So, I will attach that version here now too. I believe it may be more readable.

Holland America Documentation CHAT CONVO.pdf

Unfortunately I can not read that, even if I save the image and zoom in. (the text gets too pixilated) Can you enlarge the jpg and re-post or cut-and-paste the text directly into the body of a post? Thanks.

No problem. When I checked the jpg it was already pretty large. I will try uploading it again here now. Also, as an additional backup, I made a screen shot copy of the convo, and saved that too (I'm overly cautious that way, and consequent have way too many saved files. My wife calls me a "file hoarder", but one never knows when you may need something. :)). So, I will attach that version in a pdf here now too in case it may be more readable.

Holland America Documentation CHAT CONVO.pdf

OP, I'm wondering if the decision to deny boarding was made by the HAL reps at the pier in conjunction with someone from Homeland Security and or the captain, or was this just a decision made by the HAL reps at the pier.

No idea about the decision making details, or procedure. We remained then, and now, clueless, and in the dark about all that. Pretty much all I know about what transpired, I have already posted here.

Spirit has some great deals but only if you travel light and don't need to change anything. One last thing: The representatives who answer phones at 800 numbers cannot be relied on to know everything. Get it in writing and double, triple check the fine print on any contract. .

 

We were flying on Spirit. It seemed like the best deal at first, but never again! The "need to change anything", is the hidden secret expensive lesson. They charged us nearly $500 simply because we had to change our return flight schedule. Our entire round trip flights started out at approximately only $700. That $700 turned into $1,200 real quick due to a simple schedule change.

 

The convo with the HAL rep and her supervisor was not on an 800#. It was from the HAL website online chat line. They give you an option at the end to save and print the convo, which I did, and posted here previously. Therefore, it was in writing.

One thing that I have been thinking while reading this thread.

 

Understandably, the OP and his wife were very upset and disappointed by what he calls "the 4 hour roller coaster".

 

Can I ask the OP - What were you saying or doing to the staff at this time? Were you getting a bit 'hot under the collar'? Did you argue? Did you show any aggression?

 

I am wondering this as I know if a passenger becomes threatening or aggressive the Captain will refuse boarding. I didn't think a Captain would overrule an immigration supervisor's decision on a documentation issue.

 

 

Sorry mam, you've been thinking wrong. My career for all of my adult life (over 35 years) has been in sales, marketing, and public relations. I have been very successful, professional, and quite good at it. My interests include acting at our local community theater, and teaching an evangelism class at our church. When I mention things like I am an Eagle Scout, and was in the Presidential Honor Guard, it was not to brag, but to help give you some insight into my personality. That is who I am, a person committed to living a life of honor, quality, and integrity. Those things are important to me, and it is an understatement when I say I certainly understand the benefits of knowing how to act, and treating other people respectfully. I live and breath the attitudes and behavior of my hero's like Zig Ziglar, Dale Carnegie, Earl Nightingale, Tony Robbins, Tommy Hopkins, and Dr. Charles Stanley, to name a few.

 

No mam, our 4 hour roller coaster ride of emotions consisted of: sitting patiently in the waiting area, consoling my heart-broken sobbing wife as she calmly sat there endeavoring to block out the traumatic frustration by playing games on her iPhone; diplomatically checking with the manager once every hour or so; watching everyone else in the boarding line pass us by; and looking out the window at the Eurodam. The exasperation was intermingled by moments of hope like when others waiting there with us with similar issues were finally permitted to board; like several non-English speaking Chinese exchange students one of who's visa had expired; then another couple from Zimbabwe with questionable documentation; and a few others, until finally we were the only one's remaining there alone. Another moment of false encouragement and temporary anxiety reliever moment was when the custom's officer finally actually showed up, looked at my documentation, called his supervisor, and optimistically told us everything would be ok, and we were "going to enjoy our cruise". He just needed to get the final OK from the ship personnel.

 

Now that was almost a fun 30 minutes or so as I attempted to wipe my wife's tears, reassuring her, and discussing our dream adventure plans again. Boom. Captain wouldn't authorize it because he was "fearful of possible fines from custom's upon our return departure for letting us on board without proper documentation". Then, the manager realized all our luggage was already on board the ship, which led to another very stressful 30ish minutes, during which they weren't sure they would even be able to find it in the great big pile I had been watching them load. (On an almost-humorous-under-any-other-circumstances side note, when they finally found and returned our luggage, it included the luggage of another passenger. Which, of course we politely told the embarrassed manager about, and gave back to her.)

 

No mam. During all of this excruciating roller coaster wait, I remained the calm, cool, collected, optimistic, highly trained, people-skilled-professional, that is my typical nature. One of the most hurtful shock and awe moments was what happened next. All of a sudden, after giving us our luggage, and a quick apology, everyone in the boarding area, except for a couple security guards, just disappeared. It was kinda like a Twilight Zone moment. They just left us standing there, without even any taxi cab, or hotel info, suggestions, or any concern for what was going to happen to us next. Again, no anger still at this point. Just shock and awe, devastating disappointment, and major frustration. My wife, however, was a complete emotional wreck by now. She too, however, showed no anger, or contempt, at this time, remaining the gentle, sweet, artist, writer, creative-spirit person that she always is. We don't do anger well. Not our thing.

 

Fast forward a couple of months of more roller coaster emotions from optimistic to pessimistic emails, and phone calls between our travel agent, and HAL Customer Relations. Yes, since then I confess to moments of anger. However, I have also not directed that, orally, written, or otherwise, toward any individual. I even hesitated to use the anger Icon for this original post. It was just the closest, most appropriate one available, since they didn't have an option for a broken heart.:(:confused::rolleyes::o:eek::mad:

Thank all of you who took the time to share your empathetic words of encouragement and support. Many of you had some very helpful tips and advice here. Some of you told me things I didn't already know. I sincerely appreciated that. The rest of you told me to GET A PASSPORT! Duh.

Posted on their Facebook page 2 weeks ago. That's been long buried under the outnumbered pile of happy cruisers by now. Gonna try the suggestions on here about the ombudsmen, and writing the nice civil snail mail letter next. The media and the rest of the world wide web, etc. on back burner for now. This is only my new part-time job. I actually have a real one too. Heck, just this forum alone has worn me out today.

 

Again, not looking for a refund, or demanding any extra's. We only want to take the cruise we paid for already, and were assured by HAL we would be able to take with no problem.

The birth records and certificate of Birth from Germany are not valid for use as anything other than proof of where you were born and to apply for a German Passport. You must have the first one to apply for US Citizenship and/or a Passport.

 

This is the same paperwork, with the Seal of the State in which we lived at the time of our daughters birth in Herbornseelbach, Hesse, FRG.

 

As I stated before, but apparently it was not noticed by you, THIS IS NOT PROOF OF US CITIZENSHIP!!!

 

All it is is a German Birth Certificate, which is valid to provide you proof of German Citizenship.

 

You have to do what my daughter/we had to do and APPLY for US Citizenship and officially revoke your German Citizenship and then apply for US Citizenship, via the US State Department and then you might consider a US Passport.

 

2. A German Birth Certificate even with Translation, is not US Citizenship... I cannot stress this enough.

If the German Birth Certificate is all that you have, then you are still a German Citizen because you do not have the American Birth Certificate. Until you renounce your German Birth Rights/Citizenship OFFICIALLY you are German and not an American Citizen until you have that proof in English.

 

Oh, I read it before, and realized you were WRONG, and didn't feel it justified a response. However, at the risk of starting an entirely new thread here, some misleading rants (not calling you a misleading ranter), devoid of any obvious research, require correction. Otherwise, some folks here may think Obama, McCain, or myself may not be eligible to run for the U.S. Presidency. We are! (Fortunately, or unfortunately, as that may be.) Because we are all what is known as natural born or naturalized U.S. Citizens, who "derived" our U.S. citizenship at birth by being born of at least one U.S. Citizen parent. No non-U.S. country citizenship revoking required.

 

Anyone heard of Google? No, it's not a German bagel. Ten minutes surfing around on there BEFORE one starts typing and hits Submit could prevent a lot of misinformation from being spread. Unless that is one's intent.

 

Please allow me to save you the 5 or 6 minutes it could take. Start here at the official U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services government site: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextchannel=32dffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextoid=32dffe9dd4aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

Find on the first page under "A Child Born Outside the U.S. is a Citizen at Birth IF"...One parent is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth and the birthdate is before November 14, 1986 but after October 10, 1952 The parents are married at the time of birth and the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. or its territories for a period of at least ten years at some time in his or her life prior to the birth, at least five of which

were after his or her 14th birthday.

If the U.S. citizen parent spent time abroad in any of the following three capacities, this can also be counted towards the physical presence requirement:

 

• Serving honorably in the U.S. Armed Forces;
  
• Employed with the U.S. Government; or
  
• Employed with certain international organizations
  

 

Gosh, that's me! :cool:

Here's another one: http://mediamatters.org/blog/2011/05/12/everything-you-need-to-know-about-being-a-natur/179567 This one is from MediaMatters website, where you will find: "Under the English common law, from which the constitutional Framers apparently derived the words "natural-born citizen," at least some foreign born children of American citizen parents are "natural-born." Included are children born within the allegiance or jurisdiction of the United States. Children born to citizen parents who are in a foreign land as a result of United States government employment undoubtedly fall within the allegiance of the United States, and, therefore, are eligible for the Office of the Presidency."

 

Yay! Me again! Relax, I'm not gonna run for President. But, I could if I wanted to! :p I know. I know. But I probably still couldn't leave from, and return to, Fort Lauderdale without a passport. I got that. Wait. Do Presidents have to have passports? Oh no, I smell another thread derailing.

Not sure how you went from boot to an honor guard, but those were different times. Get a passport and fight the good fight for a refund. Good luck. Guessing your wife/husband/partner was without passport as well.

Most Honor Guard members come directly from boot camp. They tend to be more trainable than old salts. Being a 6'2" Eagle Scout helps too. :) Thank you. Not looking for a refund though, or any extra's. We would just like to be able to take the cruise we already paid for. Nothing else.