imsulin Posted November 25, 2009 #101 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Boy that sure would have put a damper on Mr. Hugo's little story... ;) Theron Poor Victor - no royalties for the musical, either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruzincurt Posted November 25, 2009 #102 Share Posted November 25, 2009 We take photo copies of our passports off the ship while in port. Never the actual passports. Those stay in the safe in the stateroom. We take our passports ashore and leave copies in the safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponboard Posted November 25, 2009 #103 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I will never get off the ship in the Bahamas, say good bye to these tourist dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdiamond Posted November 25, 2009 #104 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I will never get off the ship in the Bahamas, say good bye to these tourist dollars. We no longer book a cruise which has the Bahamas as a port of call on the itinerary. The same goes for Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailkeywest Posted November 26, 2009 #105 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Article from one of the victim's viewpoint, shockingly frightening: http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/articles/robbed-at-gunpoint-in-bahamas I personally don't think that it is the cruiseline's responsibility for every single passenger's safety once they leave the ship. They find nice tours with good reputations, and that is all that they can do. They can't promise that some idiot(s) are going to do something so drastic and horrifying. My heart goes out to the victims, I hope they can move on from this in peace. Good to know that a suspect has been found: http://www.thenassauguardian.com/national_local/993065400789.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcguy Posted November 26, 2009 #106 Share Posted November 26, 2009 From the above linked article by one of the passengers robbed.... As one employee of the Segway tour company told us, “It gets worse the closer you get to the holidays – people get greedy.” Couple that comment with the experiences listed above, and it doesn’t sound like thefts, robberies and violence against tourists are a rare occurrence—it’s the norm. Now, do you mean to tell me that the tour operator and the cruise lines didn't know this previously? Again, as I've posted before, the cruise lines have a "legal" responsibility to inform passengers of the potential dangers they may encounter in the ports they frequent. Not to do so would be negligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribarfly Posted November 26, 2009 #107 Share Posted November 26, 2009 From the above linked article by one of the passengers robbed.... As one employee of the Segway tour company told us, “It gets worse the closer you get to the holidays – people get greedy.” Couple that comment with the experiences listed above, and it doesn’t sound like thefts, robberies and violence against tourists are a rare occurrence—it’s the norm. Now, do you mean to tell me that the tour operator and the cruise lines didn't know this previously? Again, as I've posted before, the cruise lines have a "legal" responsibility to inform passengers of the potential dangers they may encounter in the ports they frequent. Not to do so would be negligent. I am in total agreement with you. Sadly this could happen anywhere but this is really bad PR for the tourism/cruise industry in the Bahamas, or for any of the Islands for that matter. We will be on the Oasis for the 12/1 & 12/5 inaugurals and Nassau is our last port, I pre-booked the Segway tour a couple of weeks ago but in light of this incident I will definitely be canceling this tour. You would think that RCL would have sent a precautionary letter or a least made a statement too anyone who has booked this excursion but I guess protecting their bottom line is more important, it may be safer now but why tempt fate. Ron :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdiamond Posted November 26, 2009 #108 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Sadly, the comments of many of you are valid. Many years ago, we would book a condo on the beach at Freeport, but the threats and harrassment by the locals forced us to discontinue that area as a vacation venue. By the way, that was over twenty years ago; and, we have never returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxandenjoy Posted November 26, 2009 #109 Share Posted November 26, 2009 This thread has been interesting reading all around. I am truly sorry for the victims of this crime as it had to be a real vacation downer! Despite not being directly responsible, I hope both cruise lines stepped up with upgrades, OBC, and future cruises. It's the least they can do. While the passengers were not directly in the care of the cruiseline at the time, all advertising suggests we're supposed to take the cruiseline's reccommended excursions over private ones as they've been checked out and "deemed safe" by the cruise line. With that being said, crime is everywhere. You do have to be alert, use common sense, and trust your gut. I once got away with a very stupid toursit move in Costa Rica while looking for an ATM. I was so focused on finding one that, only after withdrawing a large sum of money, did I notice I was no longer in a tourist area and it was not a good area. I literally sprinted all the way back to the ship. Stupid? Yes! Lucky? Absolutely. Better educated? Yup. Had something happened to me then, I would have been the only one to blame. On a "ship endorsed" and sold excursion, I do believe the line bears some responsibility. Not enough money to set people up for life, but a free cruise would be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micro yaya Posted November 26, 2009 #110 Share Posted November 26, 2009 so sad that the bahamian people have to suffer for a few bad apples. we were in nassau two months ago, we walked to the public beach. there were maybe 6 cruise people there and baybe 15 locals. we never had a problem, we had one of the best days there ever and we've been at least 20 times... just goes to show ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrozuk Posted November 26, 2009 #111 Share Posted November 26, 2009 so sad that the bahamian people have to suffer for a few bad apples. we were in nassau two months ago, we walked to the public beach. there were maybe 6 cruise people there and baybe 15 locals. we never had a problem, we had one of the best days there ever and we've been at least 20 times... just goes to show ya Agree with you here.. we were in Nassau just a few weeks ago. We had arrived on the Saturday night as we couldn't get onto CocoCay becuase of bad weather, and although inviting, we stayed onboard until the morning. Next morning, we were up and out early, deciding to have a general walkabout. We walked up to Queens Staircase, finding we were alone there, then we went up to the Fort, then back down and around Bay St. Stopped and chatted with some of the locals, and all were friendly. Hope those involved haven't been put off going to Nassau, but I do agree with the comments about the poverty out there, it really can be in your face. We cruised with a Bahamian last year and they told us what it was like away from the touristy areas. Would I go back to Nassau after the latest issues? Yes, but would be a little more wary if I were to venture further afield. Hopefully RCI and DCL made a lot of effort to comfort the victims. Do wonder why we have to take our passport ashore with us, is a completely stupid thing to have to do in my opinion ScrozUk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckhog Posted November 27, 2009 #112 Share Posted November 27, 2009 I was in Nassau for a week in Sept..... I can't recall ever being in the Caribbean wishing to go home like I did there just a shethole with no redeeming qualities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougp26364 Posted November 27, 2009 #113 Share Posted November 27, 2009 From the above linked article by one of the passengers robbed.... As one employee of the Segway tour company told us, “It gets worse the closer you get to the holidays – people get greedy.” Couple that comment with the experiences listed above, and it doesn’t sound like thefts, robberies and violence against tourists are a rare occurrence—it’s the norm. Now, do you mean to tell me that the tour operator and the cruise lines didn't know this previously? Again, as I've posted before, the cruise lines have a "legal" responsibility to inform passengers of the potential dangers they may encounter in the ports they frequent. Not to do so would be negligent. Theft gets worse around the holidays everywhere. So who is responsible when any crime occurs? Is it the apartment complex management company who is responsible for the safety of it's tenents? Is it the departments stores responsility for the protection of it's customers? How about the restaurant owner who has some nut bag gunman come in to rob his place of business? By your thought process, it's ALWAYS someone else's responsiblity and, if something bad happens, then someone else has to pay. Get in the real world. It's not always someone elses responsiblity to the actions of those that will do harm to others. If we go down that road then life as we know it is over. There will be no way anyone can conduct business based upon the liablity you would impose on them. The cruise line has no "legal" resonsibility here. You might want to wish they did but, they can not control all aspects of life when they're in port. They can't provide security, law enforcement or crowd control off the ship. Those things are up to the municipality of the town or country they're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startraveler Posted November 27, 2009 #114 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Theft gets worse around the holidays everywhere. So who is responsible when any crime occurs? Is it the apartment complex management company who is responsible for the safety of it's tenents? Is it the departments stores responsility for the protection of it's customers? How about the restaurant owner who has some nut bag gunman come in to rob his place of business? By your thought process, it's ALWAYS someone else's responsiblity and, if something bad happens, then someone else has to pay. Get in the real world. It's not always someone elses responsiblity to the actions of those that will do harm to others. If we go down that road then life as we know it is over. There will be no way anyone can conduct business based upon the liablity you would impose on them. The cruise line has no "legal" resonsibility here. You might want to wish they did but, they can not control all aspects of life when they're in port. They can't provide security, law enforcement or crowd control off the ship. Those things are up to the municipality of the town or country they're in. I would disagree. This was a ship-sponsored excursion. I had a concern recently over a ship excursion (not RCL or DCL) and this is what I got in return: "While our various shore excursions are led by independent operators, they are selected after a careful review of both activity features and operator experience. [Name of cruise line] also provides strict guidelines to each contractor to further ensure the safety of our passengers." Ship excursions are billed as providing a safe experience for its passengers. There's a difference between that and a landlord, or that and a store owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougp26364 Posted November 27, 2009 #115 Share Posted November 27, 2009 I would disagree. This was a ship-sponsored excursion. I had a concern recently over a ship excursion (not RCL or DCL) and this is what I got in return: "While our various shore excursions are led by independent operators, they are selected after a careful review of both activity features and operator experience. [Name of cruise line] also provides strict guidelines to each contractor to further ensure the safety of our passengers." Ship excursions are billed as providing a safe experience for its passengers. There's a difference between that and a landlord, or that and a store owner. RCI only sells excursion tickets, it does not sponsor them. This logic would indicate that anyone who sells a ticket to an event would be a sponsor of that event and would be legally liable for anything that happened at that event. Case in point would be the Who concert back in the late '70's (Cincinatti, OH I think) that was carnival seating (general admission seating) where people were trampled to death in a mad rush for the best seats. Should those outlets that sold tickets be consider legally liable for injuries at that event? RCI acts only as a ticket seller. You're not locked into the vendors they offer and may choose any vendor you like. If this was an exclusive deal then I would be more inclined to side with you on legal liability but, it's not exclusive. If RCI provided these excursions as part of the cruise ticket price (all inclusive) then again I'd be more inclined to feel they hold some amount of liability. Heck, if it were RCI employee's that ran the excursions and were the guides on the excursions I'd tend to side with you but, that's not the case. RCI only sells excursion tickets as a convenience to it's guests. It does not own, run the operations or emplyee anyone who acts as an excursion guide. The may recommend the tour companies and they may have deals where they offer their services for sale through RCI as a broker but, there is enough seperation to keep RCI from being legally responsible for any injuries or loss that might occur while on an exursion. If not, then anyone who has been injured on a shore excursion would be able to seek judgement against RCI for damages. Somehow I don't recall about reading how RCI was paying hospital bills when anyone is injured on a shore excursion. They keep themselves insulated by NOT providing the service but by only selling tickets for someone else that provides the service. Guests may lawyer up on this one and RCI may settle the case out of court as that could be less expensive but, RCI holds no liablity in this matter as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougp26364 Posted November 27, 2009 #116 Share Posted November 27, 2009 One last thought and then I'm going to let this go. If cruise lines are held responsible for whatever happens to their passengers when they are off the ship on an excursion they booked through the cruise line, then cruise lines will no longer offer shore excursion tickets for sale to passengers. Passengers will be on their own to make whatever arrangements they want but, they won't be able to book the exursion through the cruise line. For that matter if cruise lines are responsible for their passengers safety when they are off the ship, you will either see costs go up dramatically as there will be a new need and cost for additional liability insurance or, cruising as we now know it will cease to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach4me Posted November 28, 2009 #117 Share Posted November 28, 2009 If cruise lines are held responsible for whatever happens to their passengers when they are off the ship on an excursion they booked through the cruise line, then cruise lines will no longer offer shore excursion tickets for sale to passengers. Passengers will be on their own to make whatever arrangements they want but, they won't be able to book the exursion through the cruise line. That will never happen! (Lawsuits or no lawsuits.) Have you seen "Cruise Inc." on CNN (or maybe it was CNBC)? A very large portion of cruise line revenue comes from selling excursions. It's right up there with alcohol sales as a financial support system for each voyage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowboat2 Posted November 28, 2009 #118 Share Posted November 28, 2009 That will never happen! (Lawsuits or no lawsuits.) Have you seen "Cruise Inc." on CNN (or maybe it was CNBC)? A very large portion of cruise line revenue comes from selling excursions. It's right up there with alcohol sales as a financial support system for each voyage. I have read all six pages of this post, and you are the first person who has hit the nail on the head. The cruise line is more than just arranging the tours for the operators. They are making a tidy profit from these tours. It is far cheaper to book tours on you own, why is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodaksvt Posted November 28, 2009 #119 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I never cared for Nassau too much anyways. Seems all to typical of a tourist destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamagina Posted November 28, 2009 #120 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Youtube interview of a victim of the robbery: Newspaper update--no suspect yet: http://www.tribune242.com/news/11272009_tt-robberyupdate_news_pg1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruzincurt Posted November 28, 2009 #121 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I would disagree. This was a ship-sponsored excursion. I had a concern recently over a ship excursion (not RCL or DCL) and this is what I got in return: "While our various shore excursions are led by independent operators, they are selected after a careful review of both activity features and operator experience. [Name of cruise line] also provides strict guidelines to each contractor to further ensure the safety of our passengers." Ship excursions are billed as providing a safe experience for its passengers. There's a difference between that and a landlord, or that and a store owner. The cruise line has no responsibility for things that happen that are beyond their control. Say a car runs into the tour bus, is the cruise line responsible if a passenger gets hurt? The tour operator might be if the bus driver was negligent. How is the cruise line negligent if someone decides to rob the tour? Now if the cruise line offered a tour that has a record of problems in some area, then perhaps negligence might be present, or they should provide armed security. They need to sue the criminals, not the cruise line. Fat chance, so go for the deep pockets instead. If you get off the ship in Jamaica and are robbed, is the cruise line responsible because they docked there? How far back up the chain do we go? How about sue the TA for recommending the cruise in the first place? People live in la-la land who think someone is guaranteeing their safety in all such situations, you're not visiting Disney Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jake Posted November 28, 2009 #122 Share Posted November 28, 2009 If you get off the ship in Jamaica and are robbed, is the cruise line responsible because they docked there? How far back up the chain do we go? How about sue the TA for recommending the cruise in the first place? People live in la-la land who think someone is guaranteeing their safety in all such situations, you're not visiting Disney Land. You are right on the mark in stating that Disney provides better care for their guest than Royal Caribbean :cj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruzincurt Posted November 28, 2009 #123 Share Posted November 28, 2009 You are right on the mark in stating that Disney provides better care for their guest than Royal Caribbean:cj Yes, but you are not on RCCL's property when on the island tours. People have this la-la attitude when visiting foreign countries and assume they are on a beach somewhere in Florida. Do you think that taxi driver in Jamaica, speeding along the narrow roads in the broken down car with no seatbelts, has 300,000/300,000 coverage, major medical and no fault? You travel at your own risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jake Posted November 28, 2009 #124 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Yes, but you are not on RCCL's property when on the island tours. People have this la-la attitude when visiting foreign countries and assume they are on a beach somewhere in Florida. Do you think that taxi driver in Jamaica, speeding along the narrow roads in the broken down car with no seatbelts, has 300,000/300,000 coverage, major medical and no fault? You travel at your own risk. I had a friend who was bitten by an iguana on a tour sold to him by HAL and yes they stiched him and gave him drugs free of charge.So yes cruiselines DO assume some responsiibilty for their tours.They are the contractor and are responsible for their sub contractors :cj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atanac Posted November 28, 2009 #125 Share Posted November 28, 2009 The link to the article has been blocked as you only get an error notice when you clink the link. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.