Cruises to Mexico / Violence in Mexico

[carlywilson]

yeah, with more insight, think about it...how many people live in these port cities, how many are on vacation in the resorts, how many are there living in their vacation villas, and on shore day how many thousands of extra people are flooding these port towns? How much crime do we hear of in these cities? The media is reporting every shooting etc in the northern border towns. I am not using racism as reasoning for my fear, half of my family tree is Hispanic. Growing up in the southwest, I know all about the border towns; years ago they had their issues, but in the past few years I guess it has gotten pretty out of hand, which is really sad.

[kath00]

No, I honestly just think it was the money. I think if something had happened on the Mexican Riviera that had scared RCI's board into moving it's ship out of the market, then some of the other lines might/would have followed suit. There's a fairly hot thread going at the moment about the Mariner's repositioning, and while theres a lot of competing theories floating around about the how and why of it all, most folks are in agreement that at the end of the day, it always came down to money. They set plans in motion to move a ship of unprecedented size to the market, and then the market in question hit the skids, with no real relief in sight. In fact, with the local governments looking to tax themselves out of trouble, the prognosis is getting worse. The Port of Los Angeles raised their docking fees by some undisclosed amount, and the City of Los Angeles is raising any tourism-related tax or fee they can find to try to squeeze some extra money to cover their failures.

 

I think all of this added up to Royal Caribbean seeing a dismal future and a less than full, oversized cruise ship that could make more money somewhere else.

 

Actually Norwegian is pulling the Star out of MX as of the Spring 2011. And Carnival just pulled a ship from the MX Riviera run too. The Sapphire princess is now only doing 1/2 of the runs to MX and the rest to Hawaii! Not that I am saying that safety is the only thing driving the changes but I bet it's a bigger part of the decision than I think people give credit for. Right now, everyone is pulling out of the MX Riviera at lightning speeds. Very sad for us. :(

 

Katherine

[Maerina]

You're correct about large cities. There is danger there. However, I don't think I read anything anywhere in this thread that would make me believe that people are basing their perceptions on whether they should disembark in Mexico, or how far to stray from the boat upon racism, and frankly, I think the assertion is unfair- to say the very least.

 

Mexico is an entirely different culture, and for someone who grew up in the United States, or Canada, those differences can be vast. In my post, I detailed how many of the local police officers cannot be relied upon to be the bastions of trust and integrity that their counterparts in the US and Canada are. Here, you teach your children to find a Police Officer if they become lost, there you teach your kid to get lost if they see a Police Officer. There are armed paramilitary gangs roving the streets of some Mexican border cities looking to make trouble for their opposition, even if that opposition is the Policia Federal or the Mexican Army.

 

These things ARE happening inside Mexico. Unfortunately, they are a negative outgrowth of the culture of the country. Some people expressed some concerns about what is happening in Mexico, and myself and some others related personal experiences about some of the pitfalls a traveler can encounter. It should be noted that all of the concerned parties in the conversation WANT to travel to Mexico and presumably experience the place, it's people, and culture in spite of the risks. I don't think that is the hallmark of people who are "racist", but instead have a desire to be cautious, and who could be faulted for that?

 

"Fear mongering" IS counter productive, of course. But I don't think we saw any of that here. At the same time, I don't think anyone, even yourself, would advocate walking down the gangplank with blinders on and walking through an unfamiliar city in a foreign country without at least preparing yourself in advance with a minimal level of understanding of local custom, culture, and basic do's and don'ts. In short, "Stuff happens", but that doesn't mean you have to LET it happen to you.

 

 

So true,I WANT to experience Mexico,as I have decorated my house in Mexican Decor and Mexican Food is my favorite food.And I did have a great time on the excursion on Cozumel and will do it again.My fear has nothing to do with racism rather from a neg experience once I got there and then upon reading the State Dept warnings,this is a gov.site from the U.S. State Dept.,not just random newspaper articles. Just passing on the warnings as cautions to learn from, so when we return to Mexico we CAN have a pleasant vacation with pleasant memories. If racism were involved none of us would have even booked a trip to Mexico in the first place.Many of the workers in Alabama are Mexican and everyone knows they are very hard workers doing hard work that no one else wants to do.And as I stated in my Review,the people working the cruise tour ecxursion were wonderful and I loved them all.

 

Everyone please look up the warnings on this site for your protection,whether you travel to Mexico or any other country. The only reason we are all taking about Mexico is because this post and these threads pertain to MEXICO.The site also suggests that a traveler register with the Embassy of the country they will visit before going there.

 

http://www.travel.state.gov/

[tonit964]

Actually Norwegian is pulling the Star out of MX as of the Spring 2011. And Carnival just pulled a ship from the MX Riviera run too. The Sapphire princess is now only doing 1/2 of the runs to MX and the rest to Hawaii! Not that I am saying that safety is the only thing driving the changes but I bet it's a bigger part of the decision than I think people give credit for. Right now, everyone is pulling out of the MX Riviera at lightning speeds. Very sad for us. :(

 

Katherine

 

 

Don't forget the Radiance is gone this month as well, so basically four ships have pulled out of the MR. Carnival Spirit is going to stop going to Acapulco and Ixt/Zih but adding La Paz when they switch to their 5 & 9 nights.

Toni

[kath00]

Here is a quote today from USA Today's cruise report site for those of you who still don't think the violence in MX has anything to do with cruise ships leaving in droves:

 

Royal Caribbean's removal of the Mariner from the Mexican Riviera is just the latest sign the market is not living up to expectations. Another line sailing in the region, Carnival, is pulling a ship out of nearby San Diego later this month, and Norwegian Cruise Line recently announced it would end seasonal cruising to the Mexican Riviera out of Los Angeles in 2011.

 

Cruise line executives say demand for the region has been hit by the downturn in the California economy and news of growing violence in Mexico, among other factors.

[Maerina]

Exactly the point,it's not the people or the country,it's the drug cartels fighting and trying to keep control against the police and in competition with each other. What's sad is that the USA is the major country demanding these drugs.They even kill their own people and their own police.. but most of the warnings are in these border cities and the warnings are not only for tourists but also for the locals and other nationalities living in Mexico:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html#medical

 

CRIME: Crime in Mexico continues to occur at a high rate, and it can often be violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Acapulco, and the states of Sinaloa and Durango. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. The low rates of apprehension and conviction of criminals also contribute to Mexico’s high crime rate. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are encouraged to report incidents to the nearest police headquarters and to the nearest U.S. consular office.

 

 

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Violence by criminal elements affects many parts of the country, including urban and rural areas. Visitors to the U.S.-Mexico border region, including cities such as Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, and Matamoros should remain alert and be aware of their surroundings at all times. In its efforts to combat violence, the Government of Mexico has deployed military troops to various parts of the country. Military checkpoints increased in border areas in early 2008. U.S. citizens are advised to cooperate with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways. Sporadic outbursts of politically motivated violence occur from time to time in certain areas of the country, particularly in the southern states of Chiapas, Guerrero and Oaxaca.

 

Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues to occur at alarming rates. So-called express kidnappings, i.e., attempts to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all of Mexico’s large cities and appear to target not only the wealthy but also the middle class. Concerned U.S. citizens, as well as U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico, may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.

 

Kidnapping in Mexico has become a lucrative business, whether the kidnappings are actual or ‘virtual’. A common scam throughout Mexico is ‘virtual’ kidnapping by telephone, in which the callers typically speak in a distraught voice in a ploy to elicit information about a potential victim and then use this knowledge to demand ransom for the release of the supposed victim. In the event of such a call, it is important to stay calm, as the vast majority of the calls are hoaxes. Do not reveal any personal information; try to speak with the victim to corroborate his/her identity; and contact the local police as well as the Embassy or nearest consulate.

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_4755.html

 

Travel Warning

United States Department of State

Bureau of Consular Affairs

Washington, DC 20520

This information is current as of today, Tue Apr 27 22:09:55 2010.

MEXICO

 

April 12, 2010

The Department of State has issued this Travel Warning to inform U.S. citizens traveling to and living in Mexico of concerns about the security situation in Mexico, and that the authorized departure of dependents of U.S. government personnel from U.S. consulates in the Northern Mexican border cities of Tijuana, Nogales, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Monterrey and Matamoros has been extended until May 12. Family members of U.S. government personnel assigned to other areas of Mexico outside the Mexican border states are not affected by this departure measure. This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning of March 14, 2010, to note the extension of authorized departure.

While millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year (including tens of thousands who cross the land border daily for study, tourism or business and nearly one million U.S. citizens who live in Mexico), violence in the country has increased. It is imperative that U.S. citizens understand the risks in Mexico, how best to avoid dangerous situations, and who to contact if victimized. Common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where prostitution and drug dealing might occur, can help ensure that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable.

Recent violent attacks have prompted the U.S. Embassy to urge U.S. citizens to delay unnecessary travel to parts of Durango, Coahuila and Chihuahua states (see details below) and advise U.S. citizens residing or traveling in those areas to exercise extreme caution. Drug cartels and associated criminal elements have retaliated violently against individuals who speak out against them or whom they otherwise view as a threat to their organizations. These attacks include the abduction and murder of two resident U.S. citizens in Chihuahua.

Violence Along the U.S. - Mexico Border

Mexican drug cartels are engaged in violent conflict - both among themselves and with Mexican security services - for control of narcotics trafficking routes along the U.S.-Mexico border. To combat violence, the Government of Mexico has deployed military troops throughout the country. U.S. citizens should cooperate fully with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways.

Some recent confrontations between Mexican authorities and drug cartel members have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades. Large firefights have taken place in towns and cities across Mexico, but occur mostly in northern Mexico, including Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, Chihuahua City, Nogales, Matamoros, Reynosa and Monterrey. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and temporarily prevented from leaving the area. The U.S. Mission in Mexico currently restricts its U.S. government employees’ travel within the state of Durango, the northwest quadrant of the state of Chihuahua and an area southeast of Ciudad Juarez, and all parts of the state of Coahuila south of Mexican Highways 25 and 22 and the Alamos River. This restriction was implemented in light of a recent increase in assaults, murders, and kidnappings in those three states.

The situation in northern Mexico remains fluid; the location and timing of future armed engagements cannot be predicted. Recently, the cities of Durango and Gomez Palacio in the state of Durango, and the area known as “La Laguna” in the state of Coahuila, which includes the city of Torreon, experienced sharp increases in violence. In late 2009 and early 2010, four visiting U.S. citizens were murdered in Gomez Palacio, Durango. These and several other unsolved murders in the state of Durango have caused particular concern.

A number of areas along the border continue to experience a rapid growth in crime. Robberies, homicides, petty thefts, and carjackings have all increased over the last year across Mexico, with notable spikes in Chihuahua, Sinaloa, and northern Baja California. Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana and Nogales are among the cities that have experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues. Criminals have followed and harassed U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana. Travelers on the highways between Monterrey and other parts of Mexico to the United States (notably through Nuevo Laredo and Matamoros) have been targeted for robbery and violence and have also inadvertently been caught in incidents of gunfire between criminals and Mexican law enforcement. Such incidents are more likely to occur at night but may occur at any time.

The situation in the state of Chihuahua, specifically Ciudad Juarez, is of special concern. The U.S. Consulate General recommends that American citizens defer non-essential travel to the Guadalupe Bravo area southeast of Ciudad Juarez and to the northwest quarter of the state of Chihuahua including the city of Nuevo Casas Grandes and surrounding communities. From the United States, these areas are often reached through the Columbus, NM, and Fabens and Fort Hancock, TX, ports of entry. In both areas, American citizens have been victims of drug-related violence.

Mexican authorities report that more than 2,600 people were killed in Ciudad Juarez in 2009. Additionally, this city of 1.3 million people experienced more than 16,000 car thefts and 1,900 carjackings in 2009. U.S. citizens should pay close attention to their surroundings while traveling in Ciudad Juarez, avoid isolated locations during late night and early morning hours, and remain alert to news reports. Visa and other service seekers visiting the Consulate are encouraged to make arrangements to pay for those services using a non-cash method.

U.S. citizens are urged to be alert to safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. Criminals are armed with a wide array of sophisticated weapons. In some cases, assailants have worn full or partial police or military uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles. While most crime victims are Mexican citizens, the uncertain security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are urged to contact the consular section of the nearest U.S. consulate or Embassy for advice and assistance. Contact information is provided at the end of this message.

Crime and Violence Throughout Mexico

U.S. citizens traveling throughout Mexico should exercise caution in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times. Bystanders have been injured or killed in violent attacks in cities across the country, demonstrating the heightened risk of violence in public places. In recent years, dozens of U.S. citizens living in Mexico have been kidnapped and most of their cases remain unsolved. U.S. citizens who believe they are being targeted for kidnapping or other crimes should notify Mexican law enforcement officials and the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City or the nearest U.S. consulate as soon as possible. Any U.S. visitor who suspects they are a target should consider returning to the United States immediately. U.S. citizens should be aware that many cases of violent crime are never resolved by Mexican law enforcement, and the U.S. government has no authority to investigate crimes committed in Mexico.

U.S. citizens should make every attempt to travel on main roads during daylight hours, particularly the toll ("cuota") roads, which generally are more secure. When warranted, the U.S. Embassy and consulates advise their employees as well as private U.S. citizens to avoid certain areas, abstain from driving on certain roads because of dangerous conditions or criminal activity, or recommend driving during daylight hours only. When this happens, the Embassy or the affected consulate will alert the local U.S. citizen Warden network and post the information on their respective websites, indicating the nature of the concern and the expected time period for which the restriction will remain in place.

U.S. citizen visitors are encouraged to stay in the well-known tourist areas. Travelers should leave their itinerary with a friend or family member not traveling with them, avoid traveling alone, and check with their cellular phone service providers prior to departure to confirm that their cell phone is capable of roaming on GSM or 3G international networks. Do not display expensive-looking jewelry, large amounts of money, or other valuable items. Travelers to remote or isolated hunting or fishing venues should be aware of their distance from appropriate medical, law enforcement, and consular services in an emergency situation.

[kath00]

Carnival just pulled out of Acupolco today or yesterday. According to one of the quoted VP's by the LA times, it was due to violence and safety issues.

 

Sigh....

[pscruzinboyz]

Carnival just pulled out of Acupolco today or yesterday. According to one of the quoted VP's by the LA times, it was due to violence and safety issues.

 

Sigh....

 

Sad....we were just there in Dec on the Radiance and we were walking every where and never felt threaten. Just a crock....there is violance eveywhere.....everywhere....

 

I feel sorry for all of the GOOD people of Mexico because of a few Bad Eggs!!!! So SAD! :mad:

 

Mike