Bigoted Comedian on Carnival Miracle

[apollobeach]

Mr. Micky Arison

Chairman and Chief

Executive Officer

Carnival Corporation

3655 NW 87th Avenue

Miami, FL 33178

 

 

Dear Mr. Arison:

 

 

We have just returned from a March 28, 2010 sailing of the Carnival Miracle.

 

 

On the sailing was a comedian by the name of Mr. Diaz Sanders, who did both a regular show and an “R” rated, late show.

 

 

On cruise lines, including Carnival, we have enjoyed the (sometimes) cutting humor of the performers at their late shows. However, Mr Diaz Sanders crossed the line when he, in his late show opening monologue became both bigoted and homophobic.

 

 

Mr. Diaz Sanders told of being accosted on the elevator by a gay man; when the elevator stopped he advised children, “you don't want to get on that elevator” and he closed his monologue by stating “I need to use an anti-gay disinfectant”.

 

 

We have heard and enjoyed humor citing all groups of people – people of color; women; people of different faiths; Gays; and anyone else that can be the subject of humor. However, there is simply no place whatsoever in a monologue to become hateful and bigoted, such as was exhibited by Mr. Diaz Sanders. We spoke to him the next evening and conveyed our deep revulsion of his “humor”, with our Cruise Director present. I stated that, if a comedian used that kind of talk regarding people of color, women, or people of a certain faith, it would not be tolerated in any form.

 

 

We did not attend the next performers late night show, and as having several future Carnival

cruises on the books, we probably will not attend any further late night performances. That impedes our full enjoyment of future cruises we have on Carnival. As a stockholder in Carnival Corporation I strongly question Carnival's claim to commitment to diversity, when performers should be more closely screened by the Carnival Production Department and, in my opinion, they are not.

[PennyAgain]

It is all too easy to have this spread from one group being the target to another and it just doesn't stop. Some people may believe that it is OK to offend gay people, but it isn't. Hate speech is hate speech plain and simple.

 

Thank you for drawing the line and standing your ground.

[ItsAllAboutTheSass]

Hate Speach??? Really??? Just because it is offensive, doesn't make it hate speach.

[foureyedbuzzard]

It's stand-up comedy. Wear a cup.

[mferris77]

Good grief people. Don't be so damned sensitive. If you've got such fragile sensitivities that you can't take someone making fun of a stereotype attributed to a social group that you belong to... maybe you shouldn't be going to an R-rated show.

 

Obviously we can't hear the comedian's full act or the offensive lines in context so we don't know how it was delivered, but based on the 'anti-gay spray' I don't immediately see how that's bigoted. If he's straight and is being hit on by gay guys I think it's a 'valid' joke. Would you be as equally offended if Ellen Degeneres joked about having to use 'anti-straight spray' after some guys hitting on her?

[Nunu]

OP did you approach anyone onboard (the comedian would be a good start), and discuss your concerns? Or since you decided he crossed the line you felt a letter to the president (and the possible termination of the performer) was the way to go?

[parrotthead]

. Would you be as equally offended if Ellen Degeneres joked about having to use 'anti-straight spray' after some guys hitting on her?

Let me just say with all the makeup she is wearing these days as a 'covergirl' this may not be so far fetched.... :rolleyes:

(sorry, I know that was a bit OT, but we liked her better before she was so....uhhh, ummm..."mainstream")

[parrotthead]

OP did you approach anyone onboard (the comedian would be a good start), and discuss your concerns? Or since you decided he crossed the line you felt a letter to the president (and the possible termination of the performer) was the way to go?

He states that he did infact speak to Mr. Sanchez

We spoke to him the next evening and conveyed our deep revulsion of his “humor”, with our Cruise Director present. I stated that, if a comedian used that kind of talk regarding people of color, women, or people of a certain faith, it would not be tolerated in any form.

I do think if the comedian would have said he did not use his "anti (black, jewish, catholic, etc)" there would have been many others offended as well. maybe a poor choice of 'joke'. but ~ it happens all the time~ It does seem that gays/lesbians are an easy target, its not right, but ... you know...

[Nunu]

He states that he did infact speak to Mr. Sanchez

 

I missed that, thanks. I'm going to bed.

[ItsAllAboutTheSass]

OP did you approach anyone onboard (the comedian would be a good start), and discuss your concerns? Or since you decided he crossed the line you felt a letter to the president (and the possible termination of the performer) was the way to go?

 

The OP states in his letter that he approached the comedian the next day with the CD present.

[S.E.]

Wouldn't it be wonderful world if everyone talked kindly to eachother? Until then, people mostly say what they want, and sometimes the words offend. Go ahead and complain, but don't expect or demand them to tone down their words for you. We as Americans aren't fond of censorship. :cool:

[VibeGuy]

You can make fun of fags without resorting to disease and pedophilia. For those, everyone knows you have to use Catholic priests in the punchline.

 

I'm all for funny, and I have a highly offensive sense of humor myself, but when it comes to crossing the line to bigotry it's not hard to sense when you're in in the Tropics. As Potter Stewart once said, "I know it when I see it". Making fun of swishy sexually aggressive gay men can, in fact, be funny - see also _Will and Grace_ 's treatment of Jack. Calling them diseased pedophiles is something else entirely.

 

If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd have done the exact same thing - talked to the CD in the presence of the offender, marked a comment card at the end of the cruise and you can bet your ass that I'd write to an executive of the line. I'm a CCL shareholder too, and I choose not to invest in companies that institutionalize attitudes like this. It's not only my vacation, it's the workplace for a bunch of 'mos onboard, and I don't like to think of the awesome guys I know who work onboard being in an environment where a fair amount of the guests have been exposed to anti-gay spew the night before.

 

As for wearing the cup? Sounds hot. We gonna play nutball?

[Muscle Force]

I believe we gays should be tough enough to accept kidding, and I truly dislike members of any minority group who get over-sensitive and PC, but if this comedian really said that, it's ugly and unfunny.

 

No question, a comparable slam on blacks, latinos, or any other minority group would get the man fired on the spot.

 

I can forgive any offense if it's truly funny, but -- with material like that, this ***** is mighty likely even to get a cruise ship gig ...

[Muscle Force]

I believe we gays should be tough enough to accept kidding, and I truly dislike members of any minority group who get over-sensitive and PC, but if this comedian really said that, it's ugly and unfunny.

 

No question, a comparable slam on blacks, latinos, or any other minority group would get the man fired on the spot.

 

I can forgive any offense if it's truly funny, but -- with material like that, this ***** is mighty lucky even to get a cruise ship gig.

[Muscle Force]

I believe we gays should be tough enough to accept kidding, and I truly dislike members of any minority group who get all over-sensitive and PC, but if this comedian really said that, it's ugly and unfunny.

 

No question, a comparable slam on blacks, latinos, or any other minority group would get the man fired on the spot.

 

I can forgive any offense if it's truly funny, but -- with material like that, this ***** is mighty lucky even to get a cruise ship gig.

[yogi2929]

I was not on this cruise nor have I ever heard the comedian in question BUT

 

I have spoken to three of the West Coast Comedians about their routines. Two of them confirmed to me that most people laugh when the joke is not about them and become sensitive when the jokes are about them in some way. Human nature. These days we are more sensitive and PC.

The third guy just throws in Fbombs into a PG-13 routine.

[foureyedbuzzard]

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time on stage, I can tell you that jokes can sometimes (okay, many times) backfire. Damn few comics I've ever met INTENTIONALLY write material meant to truly offend or be mean - it just isn't a good career move. But we do poke fun at damn near everything under the sun - and stereotypes and observational humor are always fair game.

The stand-up stage is the most unforgiving environment in existence. Reaction is immediate, and you can't take back what is said. While a fair degree of what any comic does is scripted, we also ad-lib a lot - it's called "being in the room". Live, unscripted interaction with an audience makes for the best comedy - but it comes with added risk. Sometimes we screw up and word something in a way that comes out offensive to some, even though that was not the intent. Then again, sometimes audience members simply don't get a joke, it could be over their heads, it just doesn't resonate with their idea of humor, or they're oversensitive and/or looking to MAKE something benign into something offensive. No stand-up routine other than "canned" 5 to 10 minute bits can be "tested" beforehand. As an audience member at a late night "adult" show, you have to expect that at times you may find something offensive - it's part and parcel of what can happen in a live performance.

Given the range of human sensitivities, it would be rare that any edgy humor wouldn't find criticism from someone. Sooner or later virtually anything you say will be seen as or deemed "offensive" by someone. Was this guy's material truly offensive? All we know is that the OP found it so. Perhaps the OP is right, but perhaps not. We haven't heard the material ourselves (especially in the context at the time), and we have no other reviews of the act from others. I, for one, would refrain from judging any one, especially a comedian doing adult level humor, based soley upon any individual person's (couple's) opinion.

[apollobeach]

No, you HAVE NOT heard the material; yet, you see fit to comment on it. Maybe if he used a Jew; or a Muslim; or a woman; or a person of color, you would see where we are coming from.

 

Our letter was not a "critique" as you allude, but an actual monologue done by a hateful and homophobic person. We met him the following evening, and he saw nothing offensive in his material.

 

Sorry you feel that a severe criticism is in order.......maybe you should read the letter - thoroughly - again before issuing a critique, or criticism.

[Crystalkrt]

I can't believe the comedian said that... 'gay desinfectant', wow!!!. How dare him??? it's like saying "latino-desinfectant / black desinfectant..."

 

I would also be offended and would have done the same thing you did. I hate when do make such offensive remarks; as if they knew where we're coming from, only the gay community knows.

Once more, I would have done the same.

Thank you for sharing!!

P.S: During our Carnival freedom cruise, we had another comedian 'joke' about a gay couple he had encountered during sea-day, and he immitated the gay couple. My partner and I walked away from the show, and 4 of my gay friends complained the next day to the purser's deck; they also sent a letter to Carnival after our cruise.

[yknot13]

Homophobia- the number 1 reason I will not cruise with Carnival

[emjsea]

Yes, by all means stop being so sensitive. Maybe if some black people were getting on the elevator he should have made a joke about hiding the white women. Or if some Jews got on the elevator a joke about hiding your wallet because you know there is a stereotype about those Jews wanting your money. HAHAHAHA So funny! Lighten up. Oh, wait there's a someone that looks Arab, better search him or he might blow up the elevator, you know those Ay-Rabs. HAHAHAHA. Lighten up.

[emjsea]

I was not on this cruise nor have I ever heard the comedian in question BUT

 

I have spoken to three of the West Coast Comedians about their routines. Two of them confirmed to me that most people laugh when the joke is not about them and become sensitive when the jokes are about them in some way. Human nature. These days we are more sensitive and PC.

The third guy just throws in Fbombs into a PG-13 routine.

I find gay jokes on, say, South Park or Family Guy to be hysterically funny. The loser comedian was not funny, just being an ignorant bigot. There is a pretty easily identifiable line and he crossed it.

[foureyedbuzzard]

No, you HAVE NOT heard the material; yet, you see fit to comment on it. Maybe if he used a Jew; or a Muslim; or a woman; or a person of color, you would see where we are coming from.

1) I'd still like to hear it in context. 2) "Hate speech" is pretty absurd. As I said, it is obvious you found it offensive - but that doesn't make it "hate speech". Inappropriate, discriminatory, insulting, etc, might be better terms.

 

Our letter was not a "critique" as you allude, but an actual monologue done by a hateful and homophobic person. We met him the following evening, and he saw nothing offensive in his material.

Your letter is obviously a complaint to Carnival.

 

Sorry you feel that a severe criticism is in order.......maybe you should read the letter - thoroughly - again before issuing a critique, or criticism.

 

I read your letter thoroughly. I did not allude to it being a critique. As I stated previously, "Was this guy's material truly offensive? All we know is that the OP found it so. Perhaps the OP is right, but perhaps not."

All I know is your side of the story, with your claim of a very short quote taken out of context that you found offensive.

I'd like to hear the other side of the story - the comic's - before jumping on the "hate speech" bandwagon.

That's not a "criticism" of you or the comic, nor was the rest of my post - the entire content was just a statement of what I know from experience.

 

But I'll add this observation: FWIW, you seem to have over-reacted to my post. Makes me wonder. Sorry, that's just how I see it.

[apollobeach]

Your posting(s) make us wonder.....a touch of homophobia, perhaps?

 

You certainly do judge a book by it's cover, a trait my Grandparents - and my Parents told us NEVER to do.

 

Not worth debating with one who has already made up their mind.......enough said.....

[Northshorecruisers]

If you offend blacks or mexicans, it's in poor taste. If you offend gays, it's humor??? Not in my book.

 

You can tell a funny story and not make it offensive. Being a Canadian, I've heard my share of "newfie" jokes (people from Newfoundland), living in the States I've heard my share of "Pollack" (people from Polland) and Iowa jokes - not to mention Canadian jokes. I have never found any of them to accurately depict the group they are talking about.

 

I can take a joke with the best of them and don't have a problem with an occasional women's lib or gay joke - or polish - or Iowa - if it's only a joke. But, when you consistantly harbor on the issue it's too much.

 

A very popular radio station here in the Twin Cities had a DJ on at 5pm who constantly was telling gay jokes. Needless to say he didn't last long. Don't know when he was let go because I'd stopped listening to the station - but now I'm back and enjoying the music with a new DJ.