Can I comment on kids/toddlers/babies on cruises?

[beachchick]

[quote name='Onessa']Beachchick - there is a "Quote" button - nice of you not to use it in your post so that you can twist at will. I also apologize for having failed at my attempt at sardonic, sweeping over generalization! [/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm well aware of and use the quote function when I feel like it. I wasn't aware that I was required to use it.

[QUOTE]What you missed here is the "smilie" - sarcastic.[/QUOTE]

I didn't miss it, but smilies can only go so far in conveying an "attitude." Surely you must realize that we can't "hear" each other's tone of voice. I didn't think you were being particularly sardonic or sarcastic. I thought you were berating those who don't think all children are little darlings.

[QUOTE]Everyone seems to have a complaint about children - some may have merit, some may not. There is a long laundry list of rules for kids - some made by RCCI (legitimately), some made in some pax's warped brains. My point was there are lots a places where you can legitamately expect to be "child-free" there are others where the concept that kids don't "belong" is not so cut-and-dried.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is a list of rules for kids and there is a list of rules for adults. I don't disagree that some pax overreact to children's behavior. However, the point is that some parents don't care that certain areas are supposed to be adults only--they either bring their children in with them and then are offended if confronted or they allow their children to just do whatever they want, regardless of the rules. I've never said this is most parents or most children. Not ever in any post.

[QUOTE]You may not "label" (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, since I have no first hand experience with you), but others do. Parents are not clarvoyant (sp?) - they don't necessarily know that a meltdown is imminent and MOST do deal with a misbehaving child quickly. I have seen people leave with a child that is either misbehaving or is close to misbehaving. You need to expect some disruptions in a public dining area, and be able to deal with them.[/QUOTE]

I never said I don't expect "disruptions" in the dining room. I said I expect parents to deal with their children if they start to be disruptive. If an adult is causing the problem, I expect others in their party or (if necessary) cruise staff to deal with it. Sure, children have tantrums and sometimes they come on quickly. All we ask is that parents don't allow their children to continue screaming, etc. for the entire dinner time. It's so hard to take them out of the dining room to calm down?

[QUOTE]Whether it is a crying child, being ushered out by a parent; or a drunken lout causing an accident, or the people at the next table not using their appropriate "inside voices" (not being a person with alot of experience with kids, I'll let you know that Moms, Dads, and teachers use the term "inside voice" to let a child know that they are talking too loudly - unfortunately society does not have a similar admonation that we can use with adults who believe that everyone in the dining room wants to hear their conversation!:) )
[/QUOTE]

Would you like to let me know how you've magically divined that I don't have much experience with children? You say you've read other posts of mine. If that's the case you should know that (1) I have a grown up DD, (2) there are still young children in our lives whom we love very much and enjoy spending time with, (3) I taught grade school for several years, and (4) I'm well aware of what "inside" voices are--and I expect adults as well as children to use them. I have to say you've got a lot of nerve making accusations about me when you obviously don't know anything about me.

[QUOTE]Again, use of the Quote button on your part may have helped here. First there was that little roll-eyes smilie, secondly the entire quote mentioned expecting them to say ONLY "please and thank you", sitting stiftly, and being forced to wear uncomfortable shoes. It never mentioned that they should NOT say please and thank you, just that they should be allowed and expected to do more than sitting stiftly and should be allowed and expected to say more than just "please and thank you". The comment was a veiled version of the Victorian notion that children should be "seen and not heard".[/QUOTE]

Oh, I got your inference to Victorian ideas of behavior. Putting a smilie doesn't change the fact that you seemed to be saying that children shouldn't be [I]expected[/I] to say please and thank you, etc. Didn't you write that if bartenders or servers ignore children's requests that children will naturally be rude in return? (If it wasn't you, then I'm sorry I directed this particular comment at you.) I'm not saying children should be ignored by staff--not by a long shot. I am saying that rude behavior on one part doesn't justify rude behavior in return. When did I say children should sit like little statues? Never. Again, it is you twisting my words.


[QUOTE]It is not just the children who are rushing and/or "hogging" elevator space. It is adults as well. My point still comes back to my statement "There are things about everyone that we don't like".

Berating all children because one might ". . . rush . . down the stairs, cutting a corner a bit close" certainly does not condone rushing, nor did it indicate that the "rush" in question or any other "rush" resulted in a horrific accident (I can only assume that the frail elderly person who was knocked down in your "worst case scenerio" above probably also suffered life long injuries??!!)
[/QUOTE]

Again, I never said that adults aren't guilty of rushing or shoving or being inconsiderate. Your post seemed to indicate that children rushing, heedless of others around them, should be ignored. Nice callous attitude toward those with disabilities or who are elderly. Yes, I saw 2 kids run into an elderly woman and knock her to the floor. Did they stop, help, apologize? No. Yes, she was injured. Does it matter if it's a life long injury? If she ended up with bruises and sprains and in pain, I'd say it could have "ruined" her cruise. Again, I did not say all or even most children do this.

In fact, if you've read my posts (as you claim) you will have noted that on one cruise I mentioned that the only "issue" with any children was when 2 young teenage girls ran into me while [I]rushing to an activity[/I]. You will also remember that I mentioned how they stopped, apologized, and waited for me to smile and say, "I'm fine, thank you." (Boy, I must really hate those kids.)

[QUOTE]Unfortunately beachchick, based upon the posts I've seen from you, you do seem to dwell on the "bad" children experiences that you've had on your cruises. Since I do not know you, or have any first-hand experience with you other than your other posts, I must take my impression of you from your posts.[/QUOTE]

Examples please. I've had very few bad experience with children on cruises; I've never said I did. I do not "dwell" on the few I've had. I [I]have[/I] related things I've seen and commented on others' experiences. Frankly, I don't think you've read my posts much at all. I guess you assume that my (and others) repeated requests for parents to simply parent their children while cruising amounts to "dwelling" on bad things. If parents take responsibility for their children, I'm happy to cruise or do any other travel with them. I've always maintained that most parents [I]and their children[/I] are terrific.

[QUOTE]I've never stated that you, personally, "hate" children. In fact at no point did I ever state that I believed anyone "hated" children - I expressed pity for those who did not [i]enjoy the company of people of all ages[/i]. I indicated that I prefer to avoid folks who are "mean spirited" and/or "hard". If you choose to interpret those comments as a personal attack and/or a statement that you "hate" children - well, it was not meant to be either.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that you accused me personally of hating children. I said that simply wanting and expecting children to follow the rules ([I]as I expect adults to do[/I], as I have posted numerous times) does not make [I]anyone[/I] a kid hater. The gist I got from you (and if I was wrong here, I do apologize) was that people who prefer not to spend time with kids must be kid haters.

[QUOTE]I continue to hold to my statement, that "Until I can afford a private, luxury yacht I must deal with my fellow pax." It's a good mantra for all of us!:)
[/QUOTE]

Great mantra--if you actually read my posts on various subjects, you'll see that it's pretty close to my point of view. I deal with whatever happens, but I don't see why we should have to tolerate horrid behavior that diminishes our cruising experience--not from children nor adults.

[QUOTE]And to the original poster. . .please don't take some of the "flaming" posts found on these boards as an indication that your child will not be welcome on your upcoming cruise.

We've had almost all really great experiences with crew and passengers on all the cruises we've taken with our DD (now 9 1/2). Enjoy (just stay away from some of these folks, particularly if your little one is a bit cranky ;) !)
[/QUOTE]

Please define your interpretation of flaming? Does it include anyone who writes anything that is the slightest bit negative about children? who writes asking parents to be responsible for their children? who suggests ways that parents can make cruising enjoyable for everyone?

You've accused me of twisting your words and making assumptions. Interesting considering how much you twisted my words and made assumptions about me. I hope my use of quotes here is satisfactory to you. I find this kind of interspersed quoting tiring and somewhat distracting.

beachchick

[beachchick]

Oops...I meant to say to the OP:

Based on what you've written, you have nothing at all to worry about. You sound like the kind of caring and considerate parent and person that any of us would enjoy cruising with--and with your child as well. I'm sure that you will have a wonderful time.

beachchick

[powers64]

[quote name='3redheads']Since they haven't developed the "Adults Only" cruise, it's to be expected that there will be children. I've never gone on vacation without my children.

We went on our first family cruise in March. My daughter is 11 and my son is 7. It was a Disney cruise and is a family friendly ship.

One alarming trend I did see was that people do let their children run around without supervision. They figure they can only go so far. Well, there was a heated debate on the Disney boards.

I will not allow my children to go anywhere without us, except the kid's clubs. I'm not worried about them getting in trouble because they're well-behaved, but I'm worried about someone pulling them into their stateroom. Call me paranoid, but it's how I fe
I'm sure you'll get a multitude of responses, but you are paying for your cruise and you're paying for your child's cruise. Since your child is so young, you don't have to worry about making sure your child behaves. I think it's once they get older that they get mischievous :D[/QUOTE] [font=Courier New]HEY 3REDHEADS, I FEEL SOME OF THE SAME CONCERNS AS YOU FOR MY CHILDREN,AGES 12 BOY AND 9 GIRL. I WORRY THAT IF THEY ARE OUT ON THERE OWN, SOMEONE MAY PULL THEM INTO A CABIN. I AM GOING ON MY FIRST CRUISE 4/23 TRIUMPH AND HEAR THE CAMP THHING IS GREAT, BUT I KNOW THEY ARE GONNA WANT TO EXPLORE ON THERE OWN, AND EVERYONE I KNOW THAT HAS TAKEN A CRUISE SAYS THERE CHILDREN ARE GONE FOR HOURS WITH NEW FRIENDS, JUST YESTERDAY A COWORKER RETURNED FROM A CRUISE, CARN, FASCINATION , SHE SAID HER 15 YR OLD SON WAS OUT TIL 2,3 AM AND HER 12 YR OLD DAUGHTER WAS OUT TIL 12 OR 1 AM WITH FRIENDS AT THE KIDS DISCO OR THE LIKE. DOES THAT SOUND NORMAL. COULD YOU ALL TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH YOUR CHILDREN REGARDING THIS? I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AN OVERPROTECTIVE MOTHER BUT I WANT THEM TO HAVE FUN. IS IT SAFE FOR THEM TO BE OUT WITH FRIENDS AT SAY 10 PM OR EVEN LATER? I KNOW I WILL WANT TO BE AT THE CASINO OR DANCING AND DONT WANT TO MAKE THEM STAY IN THE ROOM, I WOULD FEEL LIKE I WAS HAVING FUN AND THEY WERE CONFINED TO THE CABIN. I WOULD NOT WORRY IF THEY WERE WITH THE COUNSELORS IN THE CAMP SETTING, BUT OUT ON THERE OWN, I WOULD BE NERVOUS. AM I JUSST BEING A WORRY WORT OR IS THIS NORMAL MOM ISSUES? ANY ADVICE OR SUGGESTIONS AND YOUR EXPERIENCES IS VERY APPRECIATED, THANKS FOR LISTENING, SORRY IT IS SO LONG, TALK TO YOU SOON[/font]

[moofus]

I don't have children, and am very tolerant of other people's children. I can enjoy them and walk away when I chose.

But this might work for the people who are concerned about kids in the dining room: we always book late seating ( 8:30 or so) , not because of the kids, but because we are accustomed to eating late... I have rarely seen children at late seating, except few Europeans who generally eat later.

[mcaron]

[quote name='1corona4u']I wanted to go back to this comment. I don't know about where you live, but here in Florida, the only advertising I see for RCI is 30-something men and women, climbing mountains in Alaska, rock wall, jet skiing, and bundled up in the winter.

I don't think I have EVER seen a comercial for RCI that advertised Adventure Ocean, or any other kids activities. So I am not sure where you are getting your references. Rock climbing walls are not just for families and kids, that was my point. Neither is ice skating. You see it that way, I do not.

I guess it's all in the intrepretation.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Hey, Corona, face it. RCI markets to families. TV Commercials are not the sole Marketing Channel that RCI uses , take a look at the 2005-2006 RCI Cruise Vacation Planner. The kid on the front Cover is not 30 something. BTW I reside in NJ.

[m2bord]

i, for one, don't mind children on cruises. it's the children of irresponsible parents that i don't want to be around.

lthe parents who let their 5 year old son play nude in the ship's swimming pool on this cruise i just got off of.

or the kids who's parents let them get temporary tattoos or drink or smoke.

i also found the kid telling his mom that she was "hot" in her low riding bathing suit odd.

and i'm also curious as to the location of the parents (or ship's staff for that matter) when their two boys were trying to climb the rock wall at midnight without any safety gear.

of course i'm leaving out the myriad of children who were running around the pool deck (and i do mean running). several of them slipped and how none of them got seriously hurt is nothing short of a miracle.

the problem stems from irresponsible parents who would rather be friends than parents.

[1corona4u]

[quote name='mcaron']Hey, Corona, face it. RCI markets to families. TV Commercials are not the sole Marketing Channel that RCI uses , take a look at the 2005-2006 RCI Cruise Vacation Planner. The kid on the front Cover is not 30 something. BTW I reside in NJ.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they do, but I'd be willing to bet that more people know about RCI because of TV, tnah they do from some brochure they get when they get their doc's, or that they pick up from a travel agent....:rolleyes:

What else ya got?;)

[Onessa]

[quote name='ckrobyn'][font=Arial][size=3][color=navy]Onessa;[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3] [/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]I have read every one of your posts and agree with them. :) [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]I'm at the point where I truly believe the "us" against "them" meaning those that have/like/enjoy children vs. those that do not have/like/enjoy children mentality will continue on CC no matter how much this same argument goes back and forth.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]I will continue to take my daughter on cruises with us, after all RCI makes this very easy by ensuring they have a wonderful Adventure Ocean program, kiddie pool and waterslide, rock climbing mountain and the list goes on. RCI themselves encourage all of us parents to bring along the whole family![/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]Perhaps the people who would prefer a "kid-less" cruise should take it up with RCI and if there is enough demand to fill a whole cruise ship with people who prefer not cruise with, look at, eat dinner with or have any other contact with kids, then maybe they will indeed have an adults only cruise.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]We can scrap this one out until the cows come home.....but we aren't going to resolve anything.....:( It's all about preference.[/color][/[/size][/font]QUOTE]

You know - I think some of these folks are just looking for something to complain about. If it wasn't kids, it would be something else!

[mcaron]

[quote name='1corona4u']Maybe they do, but I'd be willing to bet that more people know about RCI because of TV, tnah they do from some brochure they get when they get their doc's, or that they pick up from a travel agent....:rolleyes:

What else ya got?;)


Go to Cruising.org and take a look at some of their press releases. [b]B[/b]elow is an excerpt on 2004 stats which indicate that of the 9 million passengers who embarked in U.S. ports in 2004, 1 million were children.


FAMILY TRAVEL: HOT! HOT! HOT! Although multi-generational and family cruising has always been supremely popular, this travel segment is soaring to new heights as families place a stronger emphasis on spending quality time together. Cruise ships, which offer activities and amenities for every age group, are an ideal environment for multigenerational family vacations.
CLIA estimates that more than 1 million children under the age of 18 sailed on CLIA’s member line ships in 2004. This trend is expected to accelerate in 2005 and beyond, as cruise lines continue to add amenities and activities for the whole family – from toddlers to grandparents. Virtually all lines feature extensive, highly supervised children’s programs where kids are placed in age-appropriate groups. Teen lounges, video arcades, computer learning centers, toddlers’ play areas as even special shore excursions for children are all a part of the mix.

QUOTE]

[bld24]

[quote name='m2bord']
or the kids who's parents let them get temporary tattoos [/QUOTE]


Hey,what's wrong with temporary tattoos. We used to get these in the Cracker Jack boxes when we were kids. Remember, you'd have to stick it on your arm and then lick it?

Linda

[lrovnan]

[quote name='Onessa'][quote name='ckrobyn'][font=Arial][size=3][color=navy]Onessa;[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]I have read every one of your posts and agree with them. :) [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]I'm at the point where I truly believe the "us" against "them" meaning those that have/like/enjoy children vs. those that do not have/like/enjoy children mentality will continue on CC no matter how much this same argument goes back and forth.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]I will continue to take my daughter on cruises with us, after all RCI makes this very easy by ensuring they have a wonderful Adventure Ocean program, kiddie pool and waterslide, rock climbing mountain and the list goes on. RCI themselves encourage all of us parents to bring along the whole family![/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]Perhaps the people who would prefer a "kid-less" cruise should take it up with RCI and if there is enough demand to fill a whole cruise ship with people who prefer not cruise with, look at, eat dinner with or have any other contact with kids, then maybe they will indeed have an adults only cruise.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3][color=#000080]We can scrap this one out until the cows come home.....but we aren't going to resolve anything.....:( It's all about preference.[/color][/[/size][/font]QUOTE]

You know - I think some of these folks are just looking for something to complain about. If it wasn't kids, it would be something else![/QUOTE]

I believe there are some people out there that just do not like children. But there are also people that love children and have children, but they don't like ignorant parents. I am one of them. I once was in a restaurant and a man let his 2 year old child scream right in my ear because he was too lazy to take the child out of the restaurant. I had to sit there dealing with this. But I also agree that there are so many parents out there that are responsible for their children. They have taught their children to respect other people and things. And i applaude them. This is the type of parent I am also. But I also have a two year old that is "TWO" in every sense of the word. She pushes the bounderies. She pretty much lives in time out. I couldn't imagine bringing her on a cruise. It would be a nightmare. She's just not ready yet. I can barely get thru a one hour dinner at a restaurant much less a 7 day cruise. But I know this and will wait till she's older to attempt this. Parents should know their children and rules should be established so that the other paying guests aren't put out by their misbehaving children.

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='lrovnan'][quote name='Onessa']

I believe there are some people out there that just do not like children. But there are also people that love children and have children, but they don't like ignorant parents. I am one of them. I once was in a restaurant and a man let his 2 year old child scream right in my ear because he was too lazy to take the child out of the restaurant. I had to sit there dealing with this. But I also agree that there are so many parents out there that are responsible for their children. They have taught their children to respect other people and things. And i applaude them. This is the type of parent I am also. But I also have a two year old that is "TWO" in every sense of the word. She pushes the bounderies. She pretty much lives in time out. I couldn't imagine bringing her on a cruise. It would be a nightmare. She's just not ready yet. I can barely get thru a one hour dinner at a restaurant much less a 7 day cruise. But I know this and will wait till she's older to attempt this. Parents should know their children and rules should be established so that the other paying guests aren't put out by their misbehaving children.[/QUOTE]

Just for the record?
The bottom 2 lines of my post that you quoted, are not mine! :eek:

[m2bord]

there's a lot of difference between those cheesy, tattoos we got as kids in crackerjacks and the tribal symbols and words that kids are putting on them as temps.

for instance...i saw a young boy with a bart tattoo...no problem there but a 14 year old girl with the phrase "bet you want to do this" tattooed across the small of her back above her bikini is something altogether different.

and fwiw...i'm not about not letting kids have their fun or express themselves. lord knows i did my share of that but...there has to be some limits and parents have to accept that responsibility.

i can't remember how many times my mom/dad told me no and then either whooped the daylights outta me or punished me if i went against their wishes.

i may have resented them at the time but i got over it and we have a good relationship now.




[quote name='bld24']Hey,what's wrong with temporary tattoos. We used to get these in the Cracker Jack boxes when we were kids. Remember, you'd have to stick it on your arm and then lick it?

Linda[/QUOTE]

[Shanafan]

I let my daughter get one of a dolphin around her belly button when she was 12. It looked really cute. It came off before the cruise was over.

[Shar27]

[quote name='1corona4u']
[font=Arial][size=2]I was raised that children were to be seen and not heard, and speak when spoken to. If we got out of line, we got the belt. Rest assured, we didn't act up in public very often....not even at the grocery store, or church, or anywhere else for that matter, because we knew if we did, we'd get spanked. There is no discipline with kids today. As Dr. Phil says, you have to deal with them in their currency these days, taking things away from them, be it games, TV time, friends-whatever...because people refuse to spank their kids......I can only guess they are worried that the kids will hate them......yeah right. Ask yourself, those of you who got spankings, do you hate YOUR parents?? [font=Verdana][/QUOTE][/font][/size][/font]


[font=Arial]Sometimes....yes, I really do. When I sit down and think about the "belt", which I sometimes do, YES. Furthermore, my brother has so many bitter memories, that he has to seek professional help to help him get over his hateful feelings. Something I hope my children will never have to deal with.[/font]

[quote name='1corona4u']
[font=Arial][size=2]Also, some people have kids and spend no time with them. Both parents work, and I think to myself....what good is that for the kid. Why have kids that you only see for a few hours a day??? I'd bet that some people don't really even know their kids behaviors, because they don't see them enough. Parents come home from work, eat dinner, and send the kids off to play Gameboy or PS, while they go off to another part of the house, and unwind, or do laundry or something. And if you think that because I don't have kids, this is not right, then you're wrong. I have many, many friends with kids, and this is the way it is in ALL of their households, so it does happen. Maybe not with all families, but I'd bet that 50% of families in the US are this way. [font=Verdana][/QUOTE][/font][/size][/font]

[font=Arial]All I can say is, what gives you the right to judge people until you walk in their shoes. Personally, I think that fact that I go to work everyday helps me to be a much better mother to my children. I appreciate the time we have together all the more. The second income also lets my children have a lot of the things that I never had as a child, for example, a vacation with my parents.[/font]

[font=Arial][size=2][font=Verdana][quote name='1corona4u'] [/font]Anyway, none of us said we hated kids. None of us said we did not want them on cruises. This is the BIGGEST misconception you people with kids have made. Because some of us have chosen, or were not able to have kids, does not mean we hate them. [/size][/font][/QUOTE]

[font=Arial]I have absolutely no problem with people who do not have children, either by choice or by fate. To each his own. I also don't believe that they hate children. What I do have a problem with is people who feel that we are inconveniencing them, or disturbing them or challenging their right to enjoy their vacation because we have the nerve to believe that we can bring our children along with us on our vacation. You have all made it abundantly clear that you will try to tolerate us since we are there, but would prefer it if we weren't.[/font]

[font=Arial]Sharonna[/font]

[1corona4u]

[quote name='Shar27'][/font][/size][/font]


[font=Arial]Sometimes....yes, I really do. When I sit down and think about the "belt", which I sometimes do, YES. Furthermore, my brother has so many bitter memories, that he has to seek professional help to help him get over his hateful feelings. Something I hope my children will never have to deal with.[/font]

[/font][/size][/font]

[font=Arial]All I can say is, what gives you the right to judge people until you walk in their shoes. Personally, I think that fact that I go to work everyday helps me to be a much better mother to my children. I appreciate the time we have together all the more. The second income also lets my children have a lot of the things that I never had as a child, for example, a vacation with my parents.[/font]

[font=Arial][size=2][font=Verdana]

[font=Arial]I have absolutely no problem with people who do not have children, either by choice or by fate. To each his own. I also don't believe that they hate children. What I do have a problem with is people who feel that we are inconveniencing them, or disturbing them or challenging their right to enjoy their vacation because we have the nerve to believe that we can bring our children along with us on our vacation. You have all made it abundantly clear that you will try to tolerate us since we are there, but would prefer it if we weren't.[/font]

[font=Arial]Sharonna[/font][/QUOTE]

I am not judging anyone. Just stating the facts as I Know them. I am not sure why you took a defensive tone with me, but you are free to raise your kids the way you see fit. That does not mean that I have to agree with it. Your opinion is that it's better for your kids if you work, while I think it's better for kids to have a parent at home. It's not necessary that we agree.

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='Shar27'][/font][/size][/font]


[font=Arial]Sometimes....yes, I really do. When I sit down and think about the "belt", which I sometimes do, YES. Furthermore, my brother has so many bitter memories, that he has to seek professional help to help him get over his hateful feelings. Something I hope my children will never have to deal with.[/font]

[/font][/size][/font]

[font=Arial]All I can say is, what gives you the right to judge people until you walk in their shoes. Personally, I think that fact that I go to work everyday helps me to be a much better mother to my children. I appreciate the time we have together all the more. The second income also lets my children have a lot of the things that I never had as a child, for example, a vacation with my parents.[/font]

[font=Arial][size=2][font=Verdana]

[font=Arial]I have absolutely no problem with people who do not have children, either by choice or by fate. To each his own. I also don't believe that they hate children. What I do have a problem with is people who feel that we are inconveniencing them, or disturbing them or challenging their right to enjoy their vacation because we have the nerve to believe that we can bring our children along with us on our vacation. You have all made it abundantly clear that you will try to tolerate us since we are there, but would prefer it if we weren't.[/size]

[font=Arial]Sharonna[/font][/QUOTE]

[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=indigo]Sharonna,[/color][/size][/font][/font]

[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082]Very well said :) Thank you.[/color][/size][/font]

[1corona4u]

[quote name='mcaron'][quote name='1corona4u']Maybe they do, but I'd be willing to bet that more people know about RCI because of TV, tnah they do from some brochure they get when they get their doc's, or that they pick up from a travel agent....:rolleyes:

What else ya got?;)


Go to Cruising.org and take a look at some of their press releases. [b]B[/b]elow is an excerpt on 2004 stats which indicate that of the 9 million passengers who embarked in U.S. ports in 2004, 1 million were children.


FAMILY TRAVEL: HOT! HOT! HOT! Although multi-generational and family cruising has always been supremely popular, this travel segment is soaring to new heights as families place a stronger emphasis on spending quality time together. Cruise ships, which offer activities and amenities for every age group, are an ideal environment for multigenerational family vacations.
CLIA estimates that more than 1 million children under the age of 18 sailed on CLIA’s member line ships in 2004. This trend is expected to accelerate in 2005 and beyond, as cruise lines continue to add amenities and activities for the whole family – from toddlers to grandparents. Virtually all lines feature extensive, highly supervised children’s programs where kids are placed in age-appropriate groups. Teen lounges, video arcades, computer learning centers, toddlers’ play areas as even special shore excursions for children are all a part of the mix.

QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Well, how many people know about Cruising.org? I never even heard of it until I came to this board. Point is, MOST people SEE it on TV, then they do the research to find a cruise......let's just agree to disaree on this.

[Retired not Expired]

[quote name='mcaron'][quote name='1corona4u']Maybe they do, but I'd be willing to bet that more people know about RCI because of TV, tnah they do from some brochure they get when they get their doc's, or that they pick up from a travel agent....:rolleyes:

What else ya got?;)


Go to Cruising.org and take a look at some of their press releases. [b]B[/b]elow is an excerpt on 2004 stats which indicate that of the 9 million passengers who embarked in U.S. ports in 2004, 1 million were children.


FAMILY TRAVEL: HOT! HOT! HOT! Although multi-generational and family cruising has always been supremely popular, this travel segment is soaring to new heights as families place a stronger emphasis on spending quality time together. Cruise ships, which offer activities and amenities for every age group, are an ideal environment for multigenerational family vacations.
CLIA estimates that more than 1 million children under the age of 18 sailed on CLIA’s member line ships in 2004. This trend is expected to accelerate in 2005 and beyond, as cruise lines continue to add amenities and activities for the whole family – from toddlers to grandparents. Virtually all lines feature extensive, highly supervised children’s programs where kids are placed in age-appropriate groups. Teen lounges, video arcades, computer learning centers, toddlers’ play areas as even special shore excursions for children are all a part of the mix.

QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm, using these figures and figuring 1.5 to 2 children in each family on board, you would have 1 million children, about the same number of parents with children, and 7 million adults without children sailed in 2004 or 7 adults without to every 1 with. These figures show it is more adult oriented than family oriented. I'm sure that will change as the cruise lines build more and bigger ships without retiring more of the others but for now, more adult.

And I'm not against kids and have had very little problems with them on cruises. Some of them have put a smile on the old man. But I do take longer cruises and at times there would not be so many of them and I do take exception when a parent doesn't act when a child gets out of line. It's always the child who suffers in these cases.

[alexirob]

I took my 25 month old daughter on our first cruise Monarch April 4th. We met a great family through the Roll Call here at cruise critic. The kids played well together and it was great to get my daughter excited about meeting new friends. No one looked at us crossly. All the staff interacted with her positively. She actually got spoiled by the attention. Hint: dress your child in nautical/sailor outfits and folks will smile.

We didn't do the diining room.

We found the Windjammer and Sorrentino's and room service was more than sufficient. Room service was especially nice for breakfast. Get up, get dressed eat and get to your excursion.

We did not bring a blow up pool. It would have been embarassing for me as there was very little room to even walk around the pool area with all the chairs.

We did enjoy the excusions: Sea World, Avalon scenic tour, and La Bufadora.

We went to the Aqua tots program once. We were the only ones there. Basically, all they do is lay out a play mat, sing a song, read a book, and let kids play with Fisher Price toys. The 6-18 month olds have a 45 minute session at 9:30 and the 18-36 month olds have their time at 10:30. Too late if you've planned an excursion.

It is possible for a toddler to climb up on the railings and fall but they'd have to have time to do this.

Constant vigilence was required. The biggest challenge was her walking by herself when people were distracted and not expecting a short person. I would have been mortified if she caused someone to trip. Again constant vigilance.

I didn't try a show, the casino, or the in cabin baby-sitting but I was tempted.

The shower had a hand held nozzle so this worked out o.k.

There was no refrigerator so we constantly needed ice for her juice.

Anyway, these are random thoughts not well "spoken" but I'm just trying to gve all the parents out there clues of what to expect with a toddler on a cruise. If you have specific questions ask. I'll check back. If you're going to say something mean please don't. I'm sensitive and will be up all night worrying about it.

p.s. they were very clear about three year olds needing to be completely potty trained to be the group care program. They clearly defined it as being able to go in by themselves, take care of the paper work and come out. They are not allowed to touch/help your child in any part of the process.;)

[Onessa]

[quote name='Shar27']


[font=Arial]Sometimes....yes, I really do. When I sit down and think about the "belt", which I sometimes do, YES. Furthermore, my brother has so many bitter memories, that he has to seek professional help to help him get over his hateful feelings. Something I hope my children will never have to deal with.[/font]


[font=Arial]All I can say is, what gives you the right to judge people until you walk in their shoes. Personally, I think that fact that I go to work everyday helps me to be a much better mother to my children. I appreciate the time we have together all the more. The second income also lets my children have a lot of the things that I never had as a child, for example, a vacation with my parents.[/font]

[font=Arial]
I have absolutely no problem with people who do not have children, either by choice or by fate. To each his own. I also don't believe that they hate children. What I do have a problem with is people who feel that we are inconveniencing them, or disturbing them or challenging their right to enjoy their vacation because we have the nerve to believe that we can bring our children along with us on our vacation. You have all made it abundantly clear that you will try to tolerate us since we are there, but would prefer it if we weren't.[/font]

[font=Arial]Sharonna[/font][/QUOTE]

Well put Sharonna.

[Shar27]

[quote name='1corona4u']I am not judging anyone. Just stating the facts as I Know them. I am not sure why you took a defensive tone with me, but you are free to raise your kids the way you see fit.[/QUOTE]

You must be joking. Maybe you should reread some of your posts.


[quote name='1corona4u']That does not mean that I have to agree with it. Your opinion is that it's better for your kids if you work, while I think it's better for kids to have a parent at home. It's not necessary that we agree.[/QUOTE]

Once again, until you walk in our shoes, (which obviously you will never do,) you are basing your opinions on other peoples' lives and comments.

I will agree to disagree. For some reason this thread seemed to use up a lot of my energy.

Sharonna

[1corona4u]

[quote name='Shar27']You must be joking. Maybe you should reread some of your posts.




Once again, until you walk in our shoes, (which obviously you will never do,) you are basing your opinions on other peoples' lives and comments.

[b]I will agree to disagree. For some reason this thread seemed to use up a lot of my energy.[/b]

Sharonna[/QUOTE] So what's your silly point? All people form their [b]opinions [/b]from what they see/witness around them. If you paid attention AT ALL to my post, I SAID that I have many, many, friends with kids, and it's the SAME in all of their households. Now either they are aliens, or they ARE a represenitive group of society. My assesment of their lives forms MY OPINION. Which, I am entitled to, whether or not you like it, whether or not I "need to, or will never walk in your shoes".

I happen to think that those of you who are so staunchly defending yourselves must be feeling guilty. Otherwise, why bother to debate MY silly opinion......exercises in futility will always take a toll on you....that again, is my opinion.

[Shar27]

[quote name='1corona4u']
I happen to think that those of you who are so staunchly defending yourselves must be feeling guilty. Otherwise, why bother to debate MY silly opinion......exercises in futility will always take a toll on you....that again, is my opinion..[/QUOTE]


And what exactly do I have to feel guilty about. Perhaps it is the fact that I am raising three happy, healthy children, who by the way, I have been told by my "many, many friends with kids" and without kids, how sweet and polite they are. Gasp, they obviously didn't learn that from me. I work you know.

Oh, my mistake, I should feel guilty about all of the extracurricular activities they are involved with because, thanks to our double income, they can enjoy.

Speaking of futility, where does it get you to complain compulsively about children on cruises? They will always be there, in your face and on your ship. Just my opinion.


[quote name='1corona4u']I'm tired of feeding your boredom tonight.....you get no more replies from me.[/QUOTE]

Ditto.

Sharonna

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='1corona4u']So what's your silly point? All people form their [b]opinions [/b]from what they see/witness around them. If you paid attention AT ALL to my post, I SAID that I have many, many, friends with kids, and it's the SAME in all of their households. Now either they are aliens, or they ARE a represenitive group of society. My assesment of their lives forms MY OPINION. Which, I am entitled to, whether or not you like it, whether or not I "need to, or will never walk in your shoes".

I happen to think that those of you who are so staunchly defending yourselves must be feeling guilty. Otherwise, why bother to debate MY silly opinion......exercises in futility will always take a toll on you....that again, is my opinion.[/QUOTE]

[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=indigo]I have been following this thread for the past few days.....sometimes I add my 2 cents, and sometimes I just read a few of your posts and shake my head....kind of like what I'm doing right now.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082]I think you have finally crossed a line here Corona. Why would you find it necessary to suggest that those of us with children are, as you put it, "[b]staunchly defending ourselves"[/b] ? You have been around CC long enough to know that this "kids on cruises" debate is a never ending story. Until I found CC, I had NO idea that taking my child on a vacation would cause such an uprising of emotion :confused: You say you have "many, many friends" of this I have no doubt, but what I DO doubt is that they share any of your so called "opinions" about parenting. [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082]I will always remember the days before I was a mother.....I was full of great advice about parenting....but you know what? Until I WAS a parent, I had no idea what it was all about. You can say whatever you want about what you "know" because your "friends" have children, but until you are a parent yourself....you really have no clue.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082]I'm really tired of this whole debate, I'm tired of the endless threads about whether or not kids should cruise, whether or not they should be allowed to behave like kids, whether or not their parents are "good" parents or "bad" parents and the list goes on and on.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082]At the end of the day, when all of these threads are full of dust.....my daughter will be enjoying a cruise with her parents, this year, next year, and every year thereafter............[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][size=3][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]