More travel insurance questions...

[wanderlustessence]

(Continued from my previous travel insurance post. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=161031 I was afraid my additional questions might get buried and go unanswered.)

 

Hubby and I really appreciate your wealth of knowledge as we try to purchase our travel insurance in the wisest way possible...

1. Is it true that trip cancellation refunds are next to impossible to get, even with insurance? How do we include that in our policy to make sure we WILL be covered?
   
2. Do we call ALL of our insurance policies, not only medical & homeowner’s? Should we be concerned about what our accident, life, etc. policies will possibly cover (and not cover) as well?
   
3. What questions do we ask our various insurance companies? Out-of-country medical expenses, evacuation, lost luggage…what else?
   

As you can probably tell, we are very inexperienced in this department. I surely don't want that to get the best of us. Thank you very much for continuing to help us!

[Honey's Gal]

As far as #1, it is not impossible to get, but there certainly has to be a very good reason. If it is a medical condition, you will be asked to provide a form from your doctor, and various other back up. You can't cancel "just because". If you and your DH have a disagreement and decide not to go, or a great aunt is ill, or you would prefer to cancel and go another week, you will not be covered. My BIL got cancer last year, had to cancel 2 weeks prior, no problem. He had the forms filled out, submitted and received his full refund in no time at all.

 

On all your other policies,I don't know. We just check on our medical coverage.to see if we would be covered in the areas we are going.

 

We do buy insurance for all our trips, as my DH does have a pre-existing condition and we must purchase within 7 days of our deposit. We also have an ageing familiy and must be prepared.

 

Happy cruising

[emilygrace]

Just FYI....you CAN cancel up to final payment date for ANY reason and get a full refund of your deposit (unless you booked through a TA that has a cancellation fee). After final payment is made, that is when the insurance kicks in for cancellation and it must be for a reason covered by your policy.

[Honey's Gal]

Emily is right, regarding the deposit. I was just assuming we were talking after final payment.

[wanderlustessence]

Yes, I'm talking about after the final payment. :) Thank you!

[toolongnocruise]

Did you go to insuremytrip.com as several suggested on your other posting? If you do, you will notice on the comparison page that some companies have some items listed in yellow. If you look on the right hand side on the comparison page there is a "key" there that tells you the items in yellow are "secondary insurance". That means that they will pay AFTER all of your other insurances pay. And they will pay the CLAIM AMOUNT UP TO the figure they have listed in their column. So... if you have to be airlifted let's say with an air ambulance to get home, then AFTER your own health policies pay, they will pay. If your costs are say $25K (not unreasonable at all for an air ambulance) and your other policies pay $10K, then the travel insurance company will pay $15K.

 

If you chose a policy where the items are "grey" -- those are Primary insurance coverage policies. They will pay you for the claim straight out. So if an air ambulance is $25K, they will pay you $25K (if you selected a policy with that much coverage). Then if you do have insurance already that pays for that type of coverage, you can file a claim with them as well.

 

Based on this info -- secondary vs. primary, you may want to go back and look at the policies again before making your decision. If you chose a policy with primary coverages in all the areas, then you don't need to make numerous phone calls or inquires now because you don't need to worry about what you already have at home.

 

I narrowed down our insurance choices to two. But as soon as I noticed one has secondary coverage (and it was $1 more than the other) I chose the one with primary coverage. But you need to choose what is best for you.

 

You see, even though the amount coverage offered in two of the covered areas was less on the policy with primary coverage than on the policy with the secondary coverage - the amount in my pocket -- fast-- when I would need it if anything happened is the deciding factor for me. (I did chose an amount of coverage that I feel will cover just about any emergency.)

 

If I chose the policy with secondary insurance then I would have the hassle of having to send pages of documentation first to the insurance companies I have already at home. Then AFTER THEY PAY, I would have to send documentation and proof of what was already paid out to the travel insurance company in order to collect the secondary insurance. I just tend to go for what is fair and as hassle-free as is possible.

 

Also - in this present day market - take note of which travel insurance companies provide coverage for airlines that go out of business. Then check to see that you have coverage for the airline you are using. Two big carriers along with some small ones are on the "no coverage" list for the company I selected. Just call the toll-free numbers for the companies and get all your questions answered before you purchase.

 

Once you have your choices narrowed down, you can go directly to their websites to get their toll-free numbers.

 

I sure hope all of this helps you and maybe some others reading this thread too.

[Mabers]

Hi 'Too long'.....That was good info! Primary vs. secondary is very important to me, and may be to others too. We each (DH and I) have a $50k lifetime with a company health insurance. Secondary would deplete this completely with say, a $75k claim, and we would be left with nothing. (I should add we are Canadian.....things may work differently in U.S.)

 

All I would really be interested in is cruise cancellation coverage, and air ambulance insurance to cover a major problem while on the ship. At least I think that would suffice.......will check into insuremytrip and see what is available.

 

Thanks!

M.

[wanderlustessence]

toolongnocruise, Your feedback has been most helpful! Thank you so very much for taking the time to type this all out! Yes, I have visited insuremytrip.com. We will be using it when we are ready to purchase our insurance. Hubby is calling our present insurance companies today. We plan on sitting down and comparing policies on insuremytrip.com together this weekend. I am going to have him read your post before we do so he will also understand what we're looking at on the site as well. :) The airline part won't apply to us anytime soon, but maybe it will some day. Thank you for everything!

[smeyer418]

Hi 'Too long'.....That was good info! Primary vs. secondary is very important to me, and may be to others too. We each (DH and I) have a $50k lifetime with a company health insurance. Secondary would deplete this completely with say, a $75k claim, and we would be left with nothing. (I should add we are Canadian.....things may work differently in U.S.)

 

All I would really be interested in is cruise cancellation coverage, and air ambulance insurance to cover a major problem while on the ship. At least I think that would suffice.......will check into insuremytrip and see what is available.

 

Thanks!

M.

 

Things do work differently in the US. Your company has bought you a supplemental policy that covers outside of Canada(or perhaps when Canadian coverage doesn't appy). Your Canadian coverage is unlimited I believe its only when you are outside the Canadian system. While most US employers cover the employees with some sort of coverage(that in most cases the employee contributes to) about 44 million Americans, more than all Canadians , are totally uninsured. This is true even though most of the 44 million are employed. Many health insurance policies don't cover outside the US- Medicare(Goverment coverage for the elderly or disabled) doesn't cover outside the US for instance.

[cruiseco]

 

If you chose a policy where the items are "grey" -- those are Primary insurance coverage policies. They will pay you for the claim straight out. So if an air ambulance is $25K, they will pay you $25K (if you selected a policy with that much coverage). Then if you do have insurance already that pays for that type of coverage, you can file a claim with them as well.

 

.

 

I hope I'm reading that wrong as it looks like you're saying that having a primary policy allows you to "double dip" -- file a claim against the travel insurance AND then file the same claim against another insurance policy. That, of course, would be insurance fraud, a felony in most states.

 

 

<< That was good info! Primary vs. secondary is very important to me, and may be to others too. We each (DH and I) have a $50k lifetime with a company health insurance. Secondary would deplete this completely with say, a $75k claim, and we would be left with nothing.>>

 

A primary policy doesn't protect you from this. When you make a claim against the policy you agree to something called subrogation. Basically, this means that you are transferring your right to recover from any other person/company to the travel insurer.

 

A common example is if an airline loses your luggage and your loss is $500. You file a claim with the travel insurer, they pay you, then they turn around and try to recover the $500 from the airline.

 

The same applies to medical situations. If the travel insurer pays your $2000 claim you give them the authority to recover the $2000 from your employer's health plan.

 

Here's how Travelex (a primary insurer) words it:

 

"Subrogation: The Company, upon making any payment or assuming liability thereon under this policy, shall be subrogated to all rights of Your recovery against any person or corporation and may bring action in Your name to enforce such rights."

 

In the case of a medical evacuation they're even more clear:

 

"If benefits are payable under Medical Evacuation/Repatriation and You have other insurance that may provide benefits for this same loss, the Company reserves the right to recover benefits from such other insurance."

 

Would the travel insurer try to collect from your other insurance providers? Insurance companies are not known as being the kind to walk away from money they're legaly entitled to.

 

Getting back to that "double-dipping" situation, I wouldn't want to file a second claim against my regular insurance provider and find out the travel insurance is doing the same. I'd have some explaining to do.

[jakie]

Just s short story to check out -- I don't know if you're planning to fly. 17 people from MI flew to Memphis -- a previous flight had engine problems, so they substituted their flight, assuming the previous plane would be fixed and the people heading to Pt. Canveral would only be delayed. However, the plane was not fixed and cancelled. These people had to fly to JAMAICA and join the cruise on our third day after two days in a flea bag hotel during Spring Break. They booked flight and insurance thru the cruise line who kept passing the buck ... it's the airline's fault, no it's the cruise line, the airline, the cruise line. When we told out travel agent she said you can do everything yourself online, except buy insurance -- the cruise line insurance is worthless.

[smeyer418]

I hope I'm reading that wrong as it looks like you're saying that having a primary policy allows you to "double dip" -- file a claim against the travel insurance AND then file the same claim against another insurance policy. That, of course, would be insurance fraud, a felony in most states.

 

....\

 

Getting back to that "double-dipping" situation, I wouldn't want to file a second claim against my regular insurance provider and find out the travel insurance is doing the same. I'd have some explaining to do.

 

Not necessarily. It is a fraud to file a false or fraudulant claim this is NOT a false claim. You CAN have more than one insurance that is primary and pays you twice...any reimbursement above the amount you paid must be reported as income to the IRS but collecting twice on the same claim where both carriers are prime is NOT ILLEGAL. It is not immoral it is not wrong. It depends on how the policy deals with other payments and when they say they will pay first irrespective of other payments you are not doing anything wrong or illegal or immoral. Why? because you paid for that coverage.

[cruiseco]

Not necessarily. It is a fraud to file a false or fraudulant claim this is NOT a false claim. You CAN have more than one insurance that is primary and pays you twice...any reimbursement above the amount you paid must be reported as income to the IRS but collecting twice on the same claim where both carriers are prime is NOT ILLEGAL. It is not immoral it is not wrong. It depends on how the policy deals with other payments and when they say they will pay first irrespective of other payments you are not doing anything wrong or illegal or immoral. Why? because you paid for that coverage.

 

I agree that it's possible for two policies to pay off for the same incident. For example, a travel insurance policy may have an accidental death benefit which could of course be collected on top of any other life policies that may exist.

 

But with the example used by the original poster the problem comes in with the subrogation. In order to collect on the travel insurance you have to sign an agreement subrogating any rights to collect from another party to the travel insurer.

 

So, even if there are two possible valid primary payers on a claim, when the insured agrees to accept payment from the travel insurer he also agrees to transfer any rights to reimbursement from any other source to the travel insurer. If the insured were to file a claim with that other policy it would be an invalid claim -- he has no rights to any benefits under the policy for that incident until the travel insurer has been made whole. He's subrogated his rights for compensation away.

 

Anyway, to modify my original reply, if the original poster had, as in his example, a $25,000 emergency evac claim that was submitted to the travel insurer the payment of the claim would be dependent on his signing over his rights to collect from any other party. If this traveler had another policy that would also cover the $25,000 he would no longer have the right to collect on that policy for this incident -- that right would have been assigned to the travel insurer (If both policies were primary I guess the lawyers would fight it out to see which company paid what). If he didn't realize this and filed the claim he would be in error. If he did realize this and filed the claim knowing that he had no right to collect then it might be considered to be fraudulent.

[toolongnocruise]

Where I said "you can file with them also" -- You Can. You can either file with them because both are primary and both pay, OR you can file with them because you are letting them know you had an incident and you can tell them that you had purchased a supplemental travel insurance policy which has subrogation and they can expect to be hearing from the travel insurance company. Either way you can and should file to make them aware of your claim because you have paid for both policies.

 

BASED on the travel policy you purchased (READ THE FINE PRINT!!!) you and the insurance parties involved can determine just who gets what.

 

The point is that primary will pay you directly and hopefully quickly, because should something disastrous happen you may well max out your credit cards trying to handle costs on the spot and you will need/want to recoup those expenses as quickly as is humanly possible.

[toolongnocruise]

Wanderlustessence has two threads going on this topic, and based on questions from the other thread, I posted some info there. I am copying it here too because this additional info may help some people who are reading this thread and not the other. You will also note, that I had mentioned earlier that I tend to buy the insurance with primary coverage. That is true for myself and the needs of my immediate family. BUT in researching the needs other family members for our upcoming trip, I have just chosen policies with secondary coverage on medical benefits for my mother and brother. The reason? Because their primary coverage here at home is basically like no coverage at all when they are out of the country. So what I am purchasing as "Secondary" will in fact, be like a "Primary" policy for them and it provided more medical coverage at a lesser policy cost. So here is what I wrote on the other thread:

 

To add further comments to purchasing travel insurance in general: some policies allow only 2 adults on a policy; some allow multiple passengers with different last names ONLY if they are in the SAME CABIN; some allow grandparents to cover grandkids ONLY if the parents are not going along; and some policies have AGE LIMITS for medical coverage. BE SURE TO READ EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU PURCHASE !!!!

 

If you go to insuremytrip.com you will note that some policies have a little red asterik next to their names. On the right had side in the information and "key" area you may get a message saying "requested coverage exceeds limits". To get the exact reasons for the asterix and the limits be sure to READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE!!!

 

I just booked 3 policies for our group of 5. (In our case, for the initial coverage I was selecting, the individual amounts add up to the same total amount as listing all 5 together would have.) But I decided that since I needed to buy mulitple policies to meet their name/cabin rules, I might as well go ahead and tailor the insurance to each of the different sets of needs for each of the travelers. I was also then able to up the amount of medical insurance I wanted for my mother and brother. My mother is 81 and has medicare of course. Well, medicare does NOT cover out of the country and her secondary does not either. So I purchased a policy for her with a lot of medical insurance and I had to be sure to purchase from a company that does not have an age limit! Some companies have limits of 70 others 75 and other 79. Be sure you read what you are getting. For my brother, he is younger of course, but also does not have a policy that covers medical out of the country. So I purchased extra medical for him. My immediate family has good coverage already so I bought a policy for us that covers well, but is more economical for the three of us. In addition, I had decided to go on this cruise while on my last one on March 20 and I put down deposits at that time. So I could use the 21 day time frame to get default and pre-existing coverage for my immediate family. I could not use the 14 day limit policies. (I didn't buy the insurance sooner because I did not get my air until this week so I did not know just how much total coverage I was going to need -- but I could have guessed and gone ahead and bought the insurance. Just didn't cause I knew I would get it in the 21 day time frame.) But for my mother and brother - I added them to the vacation later and therefore I could get the 14 day limit policies for them. Even at that, as long as nothing goes medically wrong for them in the next 60 days, they will still be covered for any pre-existing conditions. (Our cruise is in December).

 

My point (again) is that insurance can and should be tailored to the needs of the travelers. Buy what you need for YOUR individual (or family) situation. That is why I do not care for purchasing the "standard, blanket" policies offered by TAs, Travel companies and Cruise Lines. I can get more cost effective insurance and can select various coverage amounts in the areas where I need them by investigating the different policies on my own.

 

Those who posted above (on the other thread) and said they were "out" the cost of the insurance when they cancelled and were not going to buy early again....well, that may be the case for the reasons why THEY cancelled, but for someone who may have to cancel because of a Pre-Existing condition or because of another covered reason, the costs they would recoup for cancelling could far outweigh the costs of what they would be "out" for having purchased the policy. (Consider what you would be "out" if you had a pre-existing condition AND non-refundable arrangements.) INSURANCE is a VERY INDIVIDUAL thing -- everyone's circumstances are different. CHOOSE WISELY for YOUR OWN NEEDS!!

[toolongnocruise]

Wanderlustessence,

 

What did you decide? Were you able to find a policy tailored to your needs?

[wanderlustessence]

Wanderlustessence,

 

What did you decide? Were you able to find a policy tailored to your needs?

Hubby reached our medical insurance company last week. We are covered for all medical, including evacuation due to medical emergency. The agent told hubby that the only concern would be whether or not our insurance would be accepted up front and, of course we all know, if that were the case we would have to pay ourselves and then be reimbursed by insurance later. (So I guess if we are broke with no credit cards, we lay there and die! :eek: )

 

Our homeowner's insurance agent was gone Friday and gone again today so we are still waiting to hear what, if anything, our policy through them may cover.

 

Hubby and I are waiting until we have all the info before we start looking at insuremytrip.com for the right policy for our family.

 

Thanks for hanging with me through this! I will post here again once we've come to our decision. :)