Costa Concordia SINKING

[SomeBeach]

Yeah, I reread the whole thing again and read his wifes' comments... Now we know where her friend took her to yesterday....

 

Did you read the description of what the divers have to go through to search... That explains why it is taking so long:(

 

God Bless these Divers and may they know just how heroic we think they are!

 

Joanie

 

When one thinks about his lawyers fees, she is probably using the interviews as a way to raise money as I doubt she is doing them for free.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

Just finished reading your link and then went further.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091128/Costa-Concordia-Francesco-Schettino-victim-witch-hunt-claims-wife.html

 

This goes into comments the wife made to an Italian magazine.

It also contains some new pictures of the salvage company setting up.

 

Oh my.....

 

"'At times Francesco seems arrogant because he puts himself above the people he is speaking to and often tells them to shut up."

[CruisersNC]

I agree! It bothered me, too.

 

I also thought it was an underhanded way of implying something about his morals. Which is cheezy.

 

By the way, what does a gigolo look like? I've never seen one. I wonder if the writer has?

 

 

 

Do you know what Rob Schneider looks like? lol :D

[SomeBeach]

I agree! It bothered me, too.

 

I also thought it was an underhanded way of implying something about his morals. Which is cheezy.

 

By the way, what does a gigolo look like? I've never seen one. I wonder if the writer has?

 

I don't think it was implying something. I think it was a direct hit on his morals.

usually a man who is morally unrestrained

a man who idles about in the lounges of hotels and bars in search of women who would support him

 

I don't believe there is an actual "picture" of a gigolo, it's more his actions. There's another name for woman that do the same in exchange for money or favors. In both cases now we use the term "escorts." ;)

[Milaandra]

Do you know what Rob Schneider looks like? lol :D

 

Eeeeww!

 

Couldn't you have said Richard Gere? He's not on my list, but at least I could have avoided bad dreams tonight!

[tinlizzy]

BBC interview with Deputy Mayor Mario Pellegrini

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16638399

 

Audio of the interview http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mwbld

 

Very touching when he says the only officer left on the bridge was a junior officer, all alone, a boy he calls him, who was not following anyone's orders, only his own orders. Wish we knew his name.

[astrocruises]

The Der Spiegel article, if accurate, answers some questions raised here a number of pages back.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,810761-3,00.html

 

At about 10:30 p.m., the officers mutinied on the bridge of the capsizing Concordia. Apparently only one officer, a Greek*, was still on Schettino's side. The others decided that Roberto Bosio, a captain from Liguria and who was on board as a guest, would assume command of the ship. Bosio, anxious to begin the evacuation immediately, started issuing orders.

 

*This apparently was Schettino's First Officer.

 

EDIT: It doesn't explain why it took another half-hour to issue an abandon ship order.

[King of Cool]

HelloHelloHola said - I am familiar with CRM (Crew Resource Management) as it has proven to be successful in the flight deck. Since you have already mentioned and explained CRM many times, I will just leave it as is. My question is whether BRM (Bridge Resource Management) is similar in principle and in practice. Also, is BRM adapted in major cruise lines?

Forgive me about dumbing down my non-answer for you HHH and being repetitive about CRM. You can obviously tell that I am a big CRM fan.

 

I may have got it wrong about not many shipping accidents. According to this very good guide on BRM:

 

* In 2008, a maritime disaster occurred nearly every week (on average). Each one involved an insurance claim of over US$17m or had an economic impact of over US$85m.

 

* In 2008, maritime insurers paid out over half a billion US dollars for casualties.

 

Maybe I should have said the CRUISE shipping industry do not have many accidents.

 

However as you are probably aware financial controllers of companies want to see some TANGIBLE results before they spend money and if the chief pilot or chief captain tells the CEO that he wants to spend some more money on crew training as it may prevent accidents he is liable to get some funny looks and some hard questions. And it is ironic and tragic that sometimes the extra training is only approved AFTER the accident has happened - not before.

 

Like you, I await with interest to see if you will get some more answers on BRM, in addition to that already provided but I would still say that you will see much more interest in BRM when the investigation of the Concordia disaster is over.

[B+S]

I just watched an interview with a couple from my home town in San Diego who were on the Concordia. They said that they immediately knew that something was very wrong and headed to the lifeboats after going to get their life jackets.

 

They said the crew was clueless, even as the ship was listing heavily. The man in the interview opened the door to the lifeboat and started piling people in. 2 crew members came to him and started yelling at him to GET OUT and forced everyone back on the ship. They crew members stood at the lifeboat gates and blocked people from getting into any of the boats.

 

It wasn't until some 30 minutes later that they allowed these poor people to get on the lifeboat and start evacuating, and that was because the ship was listing more and more as time went on and it was almost capsized!!!

I am furious after listening to this interview and watching this couple's home made video!

 

Katherine

 

And they call the passengers sheep?

[Ozcruiser1]

New Costa Cruises Captains' Theme Song

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpAM9qCsuyI

The matrie'd in me has been working very hard over the past 24 hrs.

Uniall,You have been moved from the dining room to the nightclub as the DJ!! BUT a word of warning about the younger females dancing the night away (especially in little black dresses!).... I'm sure you get my drift.;)

[tcocktail]

Actually they can afford to lose the ship - it was insured (see link below). However, the bigger loss will be in the public's perception of Costa and Carnival Corp. which could result in fewer bookings...but most likely only over the short term. If I were Carnival, I would "rebrand" Costa in a few months.

 

http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/815097/000095014212000110/eh1200156_ex9901.htm

 

REbranding is exactly what they should do or bring it under the Princess line. They could sell the ships to MSC too, but in the long rebranding is the smartest

[Ozcruiser1]

BBC interview with Deputy Mayor Mario Pellegrini

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16638399

 

Audio of the interview http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mwbld

 

Very touching when he says the only officer left on the bridge was a junior officer, all alone, a boy he calls him, who was not following anyone's orders, only his own orders. Wish we knew his name.

 

After listening to this it became aware to me of what survivors talked about as trying to avoid "wells" as they made their way from their cabins. If I can explain this as it now becomes clear to me. The ship has listed badly. If I can get out of my cabin, I can make my way along the corridor that runs the length of the ship. This would be difficult as I would have to make my way along the tilted angle between the floor of the corridor and the base of the wall, BUT then I would encounter the corridors that run ACROSS the ship in normal conditions. It is these perhaps 2m/6 ft wide that now are the voids that have to be crossed. These are the wells that have been spoken about in some interviews (sorry I don"t have the links to those on hand). During the early stages of evacuation this would require passengers to jump across a 2m gap with a "fall" of perhaps 20m if you didnt make it. In the latter stages there would be water in these voids.This would be terrifying for most and almost impossible for less mobile, less agile folk.

This alone would encourage me to never go back to my cabin if the ship starts to list.

[tcocktail]

'Self insured' means that you will carry the loss yourself. From memory, I think the CEO said that Costa (or Carnival) self-insure for loss of earnings from the ship being out of service. He did not say that the ships are uninsured.

 

 

Excactly, why in the world would they want to do that?

[dingoboy]

Because cruise ships are bigger and bigger what woould be the chances of people being evacuated from a ship the size of Allure or Oasis ???/Could they really save all pax if this had happened there???

I am seriuosly rethinking ever going bAck to a Mammoth ship...8000 people to rescue sounds phenomenal and horrifying

Can you imagine the panic with that Mob ? I would not want to be one of 8000 terrified pax ...I think it would be a madhouse!!1

What is eerily strange about this accident is the amount of untruths told pax as this ship was sinking I saw the tape of a crew member telling pax to return to their cabins .So how can we trust them in future if they are reluctant to abandon ship while knowing there is something seriously wrong on board .

When I read about it it reminds me of Titanic ...not enough lifeboats told allwas Ok ...same here

I guess trusting your gut feeling and getting to a lifeboat saved people I'm not sure how survivors will get over this PTSD will kick in I'm sure very soon

I for one would not get near a ship after such an experience and I find it ironic Costa offered another cruise ...gee no thanks

 

Michele

 

I agree! The more people, the more panic.

 

Then add these to the mix:

 

 

http://www.viking-life.com/viking.nsf/public/products-dualchutesystems.html/$FILE/Noname.jpg

 

 

They are called evacuation devices and many of the mega ships are fitting them. They have a capacity of up to 700 people.

 

The reason, there simply is not enough deck space to store traditional life boats that only hold 150 people. If the cruise companies were forced to fit traditional life boats for every person on board I don't think many if any of these mega ships would be able to be built.

 

I have a number of significant concerns about these which I have listed in an open letter to the CEO of Celebrity cruises who have them fitted to Solstice Class Ships.

Royal Caribbean have also fitted them to Oasis Class Ships.

 

Key points of that letter are:

 

1/ Why are passengers not informed that these "evacuation devices" are fitted to Solstice Class ships?

 

2/ Who are allocated to these "evacuation devices", are they purely for crew?

 

3/ Or are some passengers in cheaper cabins allocated spaces in these rafts?

 

NB Even if these devices are allocated 'only' to crew, in an emergency there are obviously going to instances where passengers will have to use these and I feel strongly that you have a duty as an operator to be open and fully inform all passengers that this could in fact be the only way they have to escape a sinking ship.

 

4/ Has celebrity ever conducted sea trails where a full load of 700 have evacuated using the chutes.

 

5/ If a ship develops a list as has happened with the Costa Concorda, at what point, (degree of list) do they become unusable?

 

6/ In the event that one or more of these evacuation devices becomes unusable, what other option do these 700 people have as a back up escape?

 

7/ The selling point on the website for these "escape devices" is that they take up less deck space and increase views - which seems to me to be primarily a cost reduction strategy. Our muster station on Eclipse was in Qsine. And many other muster stations were also inside. My concern is that in the event of a serious and sudden list, as with Costa Concordia, Qsine is located a very long way inside the ship, well away from decks where life boats/evacuation devices are fitted.

 

Is this because with the fitting these "evacuation devices" there is simply not the space on open decks for muster stations for all passengers?

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1556890

 

NB as far as i can tell these were NOT fitted to the Costa fleet.

[SomeBeach]

I agree! The more people, the more panic.

 

Then add these to the mix:

 

 

http://www.viking-life.com/viking.nsf/public/products-dualchutesystems.html/$FILE/Noname.jpg

 

 

They are called evacuation devices and many of the mega ships are fitting them. They have a capacity of up to 700 people.

 

The reason, there simply is not enough deck space to store traditional life boats that only hold 150 people. If the cruise companies were forced to fit traditional life boats for every person on board I don't think many if any of these mega ships would be able to be built.

 

I have a number of significant concerns about these which I have listed in an open letter to the CEO of Celebrity cruises who have them fitted to Solstice Class Ships.

Royal Caribbean have also fitted them to Oasis Class Ships.

 

Key points of that letter are:

 

1/ Why are passengers not informed that these "evacuation devices" are fitted to Solstice Class ships?

 

2/ Who are allocated to these "evacuation devices", are they purely for crew?

 

3/ Or are some passengers in cheaper cabins allocated spaces in these rafts?

 

NB Even if these devices are allocated 'only' to crew, in an emergency there are obviously going to instances where passengers will have to use these and I feel strongly that you have a duty as an operator to be open and fully inform all passengers that this could in fact be the only way they have to escape a sinking ship.

 

4/ Has celebrity ever conducted sea trails where a full load of 700 have evacuated using the chutes.

 

5/ If a ship develops a list as has happened with the Costa Concorda, at what point, (degree of list) do they become unusable?

 

6/ In the event that one or more of these evacuation devices becomes unusable, what other option do these 700 people have as a back up escape?

 

7/ The selling point on the website for these "escape devices" is that they take up less deck space and increase views - which seems to me to be primarily a cost reduction strategy. Our muster station on Eclipse was in Qsine. And many other muster stations were also inside. My concern is that in the event of a serious and sudden list, as with Costa Concordia, Qsine is located a very long way inside the ship, well away from decks where life boats/evacuation devices are fitted.

 

Is this because with the fitting these "evacuation devices" there is simply not the space on open decks for muster stations for all passengers?

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1556890

 

NB as far as i can tell these were NOT fitted to the Costa fleet.

 

My question would be how long it would take to fill them. That's a lot of people. I don't think you can start another person down until the prior one is out and clear of the chute.

It doesn't matter whether crew or passengers are going to use them as each life is equally important.

[dingoboy]

I just watched an interview with a couple from my home town in San Diego who were on the Concordia. They said that they immediately knew that something was very wrong and headed to the lifeboats after going to get their life jackets.

 

They said the crew was clueless, even as the ship was listing heavily. The man in the interview opened the door to the lifeboat and started piling people in. 2 crew members came to him and started yelling at him to GET OUT and forced everyone back on the ship. They crew members stood at the lifeboat gates and blocked people from getting into any of the boats.

 

It wasn't until some 30 minutes later that they allowed these poor people to get on the lifeboat and start evacuating, and that was because the ship was listing more and more as time went on and it was almost capsized!!! I could NOT believe it. The man and woman had a video of all of this captured on their camcorder. He said it was a "miracle" that they were able to evacuate anyone at all because the crew were literally BLOCKING people. Incredible!

 

I really, really hope that cruise lines look at all these interviews and home video footage to identify these types of problems. Granted the crew had no direction from the captain until the very end, BUT people have got to be able to use their heads and common sense. Then the ship is listing and almost capsized, it is NOT an electrical problem!

 

I am furious after listening to this interview and watching this couple's home made video!

 

Katherine

 

I'm not aware of the full facts here, they will all come out, how ever from the reports so far to emerge the captain delayed the evacuation order for some time.

 

I feel sure this could be a contributing factor. I'm in aviation and there are instances where it is illegal by law to commence an evacuation and crew can be legally liable. It could well be that costa procedures did NOT allow crew to allow life rafts to be boarded or launched without the evacuation order being given.

 

Meaning that the crew could very well have been following there procedures and/or a direct order from the bridge not to let passengers board life boats until an evacuation command.

[dingoboy]

My question would be how long it would take to fill them. That's a lot of people. I don't think you can start another person down until the prior one is out and clear of the chute.

It doesn't matter whether crew or passengers are going to use them as each life is equally important.

 

I agree every life is equally important. Would you rather have a stable fully enclosed life boat to share with 149 other people, or a life raft to share with 699 others?

 

Why should crew get anything less than passengers in an emergency.

 

That is one of the points I am trying to make.

[rubrrick]

Assuming you are referring to the azimuthing "pods" - these are the modern way of propulsion and stearing for the ship. Instead of static propellers at the end of shafts attached to the engines, these "pods" hang straight down from the engine room and have pitch moveable blades that either give forward or backward power. The pods themselves rotate to provide accurate and efficient stearing.

 

Apart from giving better navigational control, the vibration is practically non existant and makes for a quieter cruise experience for the passengers. The old shaft and propeller type system is prone to vibration and noise which is transfered throughout the ship. On non "pod" ships you always know when the engines are transmitting drive power, but with "pod" ships you often don't realise that you are underweigh at all!

 

Regarding the lifeboat issue - one quick and easy solution to the loss of lifeboats being able to be deployed on one side and therefore losing an escape method for half of the passengers and crew, is this.......

 

Each lifeboat these days is a magnificent machine and created to cope with any scenario - this part of the safety at sea issue has been revised and revised. The next revision should include an incased inflatable life raft on the roof of every lifeboat sufficient to double the effective capacity of all the boats. The lifeboat would be launched from the promenade deck by derrick (this system is over 100 years old and needs looking at). Once in the water it would be driven slightly away from the stricken ship and the liferaft on the roof deployed. It would be attached to the rear of the lifeboat and pulled back to the ship for passengers on lower decks to get into via the portels that are used as gangways when in port or tender exits/entry. Anybody that was in the water already could be brought onto the liferafts.

 

There should also be lifeboats & liferafts at the stern of the ship - in total there should be enough means of evacuation for three times at least the number of people aboard.

 

Make no mistake - this disaster is as important to future safety at sea procedures as the sinking of the Titanic was 100 years ago. On that ship there was not enough means of evacuation for 75% of the passengers, as she was deemed unsinkable by the designer and the White Star Line. A century later, passenger ships are over 6 times the size of the Titanic and carry over 4 times more passengers and crew. For transatlantic cruises new regulations may say that no ship must cross an ocean alone. Another cruiseship should always be within 20 miles of the other - i.e. one hour sailing distance. This often happens today actually, with ships of the same company repositioning on the same day together. RCI & Celebrity ships can often dock in the same ports on the same day in the Azores and Nassau, on their way to Europe from North America.

 

No matter how many times the crew practice evacuation drills or when muster drills for passengers happen, in an emergency everything changes - self preservation kicks in and anything can and does happen.

 

 

peterof, the pods are actually lifepods, that once they hit the water, will, to a degree, explode (gently) for form a raft.

 

Rick

[rubrrick]

I don't think it was implying something. I think it was a direct hit on his morals.

 

usually a man who is morally unrestrained

a man who idles about in the lounges of hotels and bars in search of women who would support him

 

I don't believe there is an actual "picture" of a gigolo, it's more his actions. There's another name for woman that do the same in exchange for money or favors. In both cases now we use the term "escorts." ;)

 

Ah, such a "modern" woman!!:D;)

 

Rick

[mickey_d_mouse]

To be fair on the crew they were given procedures to be put in place based on orders, they were taught what to do when certain orders were given.

When NO ORDERS were given they were left like most of us would have been having very little idea of what to do. I think the crew being the waiters, kitchen staff, cabin stewards who finally gave up waiting for orders and filled the lifeboats and dropped them to the sea saved my family and hundreds of others.

It is those who should have been giving commands that deserve all of the condemnation in my books. I wish I knew the names of the Indian man who drove our lifeboat, and the waiter who sat on his shulders to see, and the waiter who stopped people falling overboard when the waves splashed in as the boat was so overfull, or the other boys in white overalls, they were our saviours.

[judybee]

To be fair on the crew they were given procedures to be put in place based on orders, they were taught what to do when certain orders were given.

When NO ORDERS were given they were left like most of us would have been having very little idea of what to do. I think the crew being the waiters, kitchen staff, cabin stewards who finally gave up waiting for orders and filled the lifeboats and dropped them to the sea saved my family and hundreds of others.

It is those who should have been giving commands that deserve all of the condemnation in my books. I wish I knew the names of the Indian man who drove our lifeboat, and the waiter who sat on his shulders to see, and the waiter who stopped people falling overboard when the waves splashed in as the boat was so overfull, or the other boys in white overalls, they were our saviours.

 

I'm sure they will appreciate your kind words. So happy you are safe.

[WAPilot]

I am familiar with CRM (Crew Resource Management) as it has proven to be successful in the flight deck. Since you have already mentioned and explained CRM many times, I will just leave it as is. My question is whether BRM (Bridge Resource Management) is similar in principle and in practice. Also, is BRM adapted in major cruise lines?

 

BRM is similar to CRM & was developed from CRM primarily from the SAS Airlines model.

 

BRM has developed into Bridge Team Management (BTM)

 

The following links about Carnival's Simulator facility in the Netherlands may be of interest:

 

http://www.csmartalmere.com

 

http://www.csmartalmere.com/Publications/CSMART_Team_(Shipgaz)_2010-May.pdf[

[Ozcruiser1]

I agree every life is equally important. Would you rather have a stable fully enclosed life boat to share with 149 other people, or a life raft to share with 699 others?

 

Why should crew get anything less than passengers in an emergency.

 

That is one of the points I am trying to make.

Agree.

These evacuation shutes COULD be better than clambering down the rope ladders that had to be used during this tragic event.

This video

shows the problems if one person becomes stuck. In this video the first person down (it has been claimed that he was the vendor of the system) gets his shoe stuck and there is a back up already.

This would be catastrophic on a cruise ship.

 

The best life raft is the main ship itself. Don't run her aground in the first place.

During the Fastnet Yacht race in 1979 may sailors abandoned a disabled but floating yacht to clamber into a flimsy raft and die when the yacht still remained floating for many hours after being disabled.

[BalconyBumz]

To be fair on the crew they were given procedures to be put in place based on orders, they were taught what to do when certain orders were given.

When NO ORDERS were given they were left like most of us would have been having very little idea of what to do. I think the crew being the waiters, kitchen staff, cabin stewards who finally gave up waiting for orders and filled the lifeboats and dropped them to the sea saved my family and hundreds of others.

It is those who should have been giving commands that deserve all of the condemnation in my books. I wish I knew the names of the Indian man who drove our lifeboat, and the waiter who sat on his shulders to see, and the waiter who stopped people falling overboard when the waves splashed in as the boat was so overfull, or the other boys in white overalls, they were our saviours.

 

 

Just wow. Wow.

[SomeBeach]

To be fair on the crew they were given procedures to be put in place based on orders, they were taught what to do when certain orders were given.

When NO ORDERS were given they were left like most of us would have been having very little idea of what to do. I think the crew being the waiters, kitchen staff, cabin stewards who finally gave up waiting for orders and filled the lifeboats and dropped them to the sea saved my family and hundreds of others.

It is those who should have been giving commands that deserve all of the condemnation in my books. I wish I knew the names of the Indian man who drove our lifeboat, and the waiter who sat on his shulders to see, and the waiter who stopped people falling overboard when the waves splashed in as the boat was so overfull, or the other boys in white overalls, they were our saviours.

 

Early on in this thread we discussed the position the crew was in. They are trained to follow orders and were stuck between what they probably wanted to do and what they had orders to do.

When one thinks about it, they are responsible for getting passengers off, to save their lives before they can evacuate themselves.