Anyone every had this problem?

[sunshine 229]

Originally posted by justaknucklehead:

If you are so upset about the responses on this thread, you might want to consider not reading it anymore.

 

 

 

What gave you the idea that I was "so upset". I have lived in this world for several years and I know it is full of people who reach illogical conclusions and say mean things to other people for no apparent reason. If I got upset everytime that happened, life would be stressful indeed. It takes more than a few people saying dumb things on a cruise board to get me "so upset".

 

Besides, I've never been one to bury my head in the sand. I generally prefer to know what is being said, then I can make my own decision which statements are drivel.

[karenw]

RoanokeVACruzn:

 

Thank you for the warning. It has surely helped some of us open our eyes a little wider to what is possible. I know I'll be heading straight for the purser's desk.

[Diane&4girls]

When my girls were younger I would give them my ok to spend $100 for the week, but they never could spend it all.

 

I'm glad now!

 

Was she really alone that much?

[justaknucklehead]

Sunshine, if you are going to quote someone, at least attribute it to the right person. You were quoting Beachchik, not me.

[sunshine 229]

Sunshine, if you are going to quote someone, at least attribute it to the right person. You were quoting Beachchik, not me.

 

Yes, you are perfectly right on that and I apologize. It was beachchik who was worried about me being upset. I cut and pasted the wrong name into my "originally posted by..."

 

I think it is too late to go back and correct it in that post so I'll just have to hope that everyone reads this post and sees that I was responding to something posted by beachhik and not you, justaknucklehead.

[huskerdude]

On our last cruise we had our 17 year old DD and her friend on our CC. Sure they spent money, a whole 90.00, for a seven day for 2 people. Whenever they bought something they would tell us. They knew better than to take advantage of us.

[Happy ks]

Originally posted by Happy Ks

 

 

I take your point. Would my post be easier for you to agree with if I said that the food in the buffet, the ice-cream from the machine and the rounds of mini-golf were 'included' in the price and would not result in additional charges and that I think it might be difficult for a 9 year old on a cruise ship to differentiate at times between what is 'included' and what is not, and will result in an extra charge?

 

Absolutely, but my kids were perfectly aware, even before the age of 9, that we had paid for everything they were enjoying on their cruises. Most kids are pretty smart about things like that, even if they don't let on that they know! Parents really should talk to their kids before going on a cruise, or any other vacation in regards to budget. They really need limits, as is made obvious by the original post and by the age of 9 they are plenty old enough to respect and obey what rules their parents make for them.

 

I was not singling you out, only responded to you because you were the one who posted the "free" comments, as I have to others in the past regarding the use of the word "free" when it relates to what you have already paid for. Absolutely nothing on a cruise is free, unless, perhaps, someone other than you have paid for it.

[sunshine 229]

Absolutely, but my kids were perfectly aware, even before the age of 9, that we had paid for everything they were enjoying on their cruises. Most kids are pretty smart about things like that, even if they don't let on that they know! Parents really should talk to their kids before going on a cruise, or any other vacation in regards to budget. They really need limits, as is made obvious by the original post and by the age of 9 they are plenty old enough to respect and obey what rules their parents make for them.

 

I was not singling you out, only responded to you because you were the one who posted the "free" comments, as I have to others in the past regarding the use of the word "free" when it relates to what you have already paid for. Absolutely nothing on a cruise is free, unless, perhaps, someone other than you have paid for it.

 

I agree that it is good for children to understand that taking a cruise costs money and to understand that their parents have paid for them to be there. I just don't think that that fact enters into the situatiom here. I don't think the problem here was the fact that the 9-year-old didn't appreciate the cruise or understand that it cost her parents money for her to be on that ship enjoying those meals etc.

 

I think the problem arose because of the 'extra charges' which she ran up on the card. If she didn't understand clearly which things had already been paid for in the cost of the cruise and which things would result in an extra cost, then I don't think that it makes her a bad child to have played video games (which cost extra) anymore than it would have made her a bad child to have played ping-pong ( which presumably would not have cost extra).

 

I was posting in particular in response to the poster who stated:

I am sorry your vacation may have been ruined over this. What I dont understand is that any average 9 year old knows, you dont get anything for free. When planning your vacation was it discussed what her allowance would be. Surley she would want to buy some souveniers. On many of the cruises I took my son on, he asked me flat out how much the arcade games were. After all, you cant go to the arcade in the mall and play the games for free. She did not look at one, not ONE of the reciepts they gave her? I'm sorry but I would like to think that your daughter is smarter than that. Am I incorrect? Does she have learing disablities? I'm being serious here.

 

When I cruised with my son, he was a few years older than this child and I intended to let him have a card on which he could charge a few things. I made sure to tell him what was included and what was extra, even down to telling him that if he went into Johnny Rockets the food was included but the milkshakes were not. I did this because I could see that otherwise it would be confusing for him. If I had thought that his card was disabled for charges I probably would not have gone into all that detail with him because I would have figured that if he asked for something with an extra charge he would just be told no.

 

I certainly do not think that a 9-year-old would have to have learning disabilities in order to be confused over which items were included and which would incur extra cost. In fact on various cruises I have run into adults who were confused about some of these things. Last time we were on the Century(Celeb.) we shared a dinner table with a nice couple. We had dinner with them all week and they certainly seemed to be intelligent normal people who did not evidence signs of learning disabilities or retardation. The last night of the cruise they had gone to the desk to get a copy of their bill to check it out and they had it with them at the dinner table. They were confused because there were charges there that they couldn't identify. Finally they figured it out. They had stopped a few times at the fancy coffee bar on the ship but, since it was coffee they ordered and coffee was included in the dinning room or buffet, they didn't realize that there was a charge for coffee in the coffee shop.

[PhoenixCruiser]

Was she really alone that much?

 

We will never know since the OP (who has been online lately) refuses to comment :confused: :confused:

 

And since they refuse to comment, I guess they did use the "ship" as a babysitter! So very sad :( :( :mad:

 

###

[beachguy]

(Beachchick here)

 

sunshine 229: What made me think you were upset over the earlier responses was your comment about "hypercritical" comments and what seemed to be your sarcastic (hard to tell "tone" without an actual "voice"; that is a difficulty online) suggestion about what kind of nasty responses to expect. Seemed to me that you were reacting pretty strongly to the thread. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it came across to me that you were upset with the way this thread was going and wanted posters who were writing things you didn't like to stop writing them. The fact is that all of us with our wildly different thoughts and opinions get to post them here (unless we are going against the rules of the board, which the other posters were not).

 

In any case, the child had to sign for every single purchase. The recept would indicate the cost, not to mention that prices are pretty clear in most places. What makes you think this 9-year old didn't understand the difference between "included" (just go get it, etc.) without a charge slip and "costs extra" where a charge slip with prices listed is required? The OP never said her daughter didn't understand the first thing about how this works. She said her daughter had run up $600 in charges.

 

I do think the internet charge should be reversed; her daughter should "work" off the rest at home. Beyond that I think the OP should write to RCI about what they asked for versus what happened. And I think parents should absolutely write to RCI requesting, as sueinphilly and others have suggested, that children's (everyone under 18) Seapasses be "no charges unless the parents authorize it" rather than the reverse. I think the "opt in" instead of "opt out" idea is excellent and should be implimented ASAP.

 

beachchick

[madforcruising]

I certainly do not think that a 9-year-old would have to have learning disabilities in order to be confused over which items were included and which would incur extra cost. In fact on various cruises I have run into adults who were confused about some of these things. Last time we were on the Century(Celeb.) we shared a dinner table with a nice couple. We had dinner with them all week and they certainly seemed to be intelligent normal people who did not evidence signs of learning disabilities or retardation. The last night of the cruise they had gone to the desk to get a copy of their bill to check it out and they had it with them at the dinner table. They were confused because there were charges there that they couldn't identify. Finally they figured it out. They had stopped a few times at the fancy coffee bar on the ship but, since it was coffee they ordered and coffee was included in the dinning room or buffet, they didn't realize that there was a charge for coffee in the coffee shop.

 

I don´t blame this people for anything like being learning disabled or suffering of retardation. But shouldn´t they have figured out that they had to give their card and got a bill with an amount on to sign when ordering at the coffee bar and they had nothing to sign in the Dining Room or at the Buffet.

 

I agree that it might can get confusing for some towards the fact what is included vs. what is at an extra cost. But everybody should be aware of the simple fact that whenever you have to use your seapass card there is an extra charge involved and most of the times you have to sign something too (different of course for things like Internet or the arcade).

[98Charlie]

We will never know since the OP (who has been online lately) refuses to comment :confused: :confused:

 

And since they refuse to comment, I guess they did use the "ship" as a babysitter! So very sad :( :( :mad:

 

###

Why? Why does anyone assume that because OP hasn't responded to an inflamatory charge by an unknown person on the internet that the charges are true?

 

If OP did return to deny the use of the ship as babysitter, do you really think that those who have made the accusations would just say, "Sorry, My Bad."? Not likely would be my thought.

 

An equally possible scenario would be that OP tried to post a warning and doesn't feel the need to defend her parenting skills.

 

JMHO,

 

Charlie

[sueinphilly]

https://secure.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/contactUsOnline.do;jsessionid=0000iI0XksBFk8Me8J5nZkeI6NR:v2mocajr

 

Here is the link to the rcl suggestion form. Here's what I just wrote in the suggestion box. Feel free to copy and paste my exact words.

 

Children's (under 18) should NOT be enabled to charge by default. A parent should have to request IN WRITING that the child be given charging priviledges. There has been a lengthy discussion about this on the internet. Is seems that the seapass card is frequently turned 'on' even when a parent requests that it is not. Also, you should be able to place a dollar limit on the card that is adhered to for children (either via cash or credit). There have been instances where children have run up large bills even though the parent requested that NO charging priviledges be given.

[justaknucklehead]

IMHP and believe me, it is humble, a nine year old should not be permitted to sign themselves out of AO. This child was able to do that with no one knowing where she was going. Just because she always knew where her parents were, she obviously wasn't looking for them. Because she was having fun with her new friends, at the pool bar and in the gift shops.

 

The only charge I think should be reversed is the over 200 dollar internet charge, the others should stay. My nine year old would have said to me "you know what mom, when I got candy in the store, they made me sign a piece of paper, wonder why?" That would have been a great clue that the card worked.

[sueinphilly]

Do any kids have guilty consciences anymore? I can't believe the kid in question was as clueless as her mother thought she was. I would have been so scared about what my parents would have done to me, that I wouldn't have been able to even spend the money. I mean, my parents would have been so mad and held it against me for a very long time (ie, they would still be talking about 30 years from now)

[justaknucklehead]

It all goes back to the "what can I get away with" mentality. Believe me, this kid knew and was coached by someone older not to tell anyone. Either the brother or other kids that were enjoying the fruits of her activated card. That's what I believe. I'm sure she was told, if you tell your parents you can buy things with the card, the fun is over.

[ruttie]

Sorry if this is a repeat ....first post got lost but sine this is happenign to me a lot lately i always copy just before i reply just in case.....

I want to thank the Op for posting and letting us know that this could happen. It is a great reminder that we should double check our seapass and that the do not deactivate the childs seapass account at check in one must go to guest relations to do this on the ship..

having said that here is my take on this. since everyone seems to have an opinion so scroll on if you do not owant to here mine...

a nine year old is with a group of kids on a ship (weknow that becasue OP stated she got a bit happy with teh candy charges in the gift shop for herself and her kids) its possible the 9 year old thought that since the parenst deactivated the account that some of the stuff she was charging was free (like the internet in AO) but the cinic in me thinks that what prob happened is that the kids thought "heck" since it should not be working and it is it must be a mistake and since it is a mistake we won't be charged.... that seems to be the attitude with alot of folks lately not just kids... to me it is simple we all make choices and we all know what is right and what is wrong... those kids knew it was wrong to charge all the candy (jheck they used the OPS childs card not theres) I would have not only punished my child i would have tracked down the parents of the kids who charged up the candy and told them what there darlings did... I for one would have killed my son if he had charged stuff on someone elses account and i would not kid myself by saying he thought it was ok. even at 8 he knows that know using someone elses seapass or having them "buy" stuff for him is wrong!

I hope teh Op does get some reconciliation I think that at the very least the Internet should be taken off and in all fairness they did tell her at check in that her child did not have authorization and if she has a signed form stating only herself hubbie and son have privilages she is in the right.. but that does not mean she should not pay for the stuff her child used...

On an aside i think having the games in the arcade work with a sea pass is just down right wrong.....:eek: sorry about all the misspelled words.. and again thnaks to the Op for the reminder....

[sueinphilly]

when my son was about 5, we were out shopping and he wandered away from me for a moment. When he came back, he had chocolate smeared on his face. I made him talk to the store manager and pay for the candy he had taken. He's now 15 and he can still VIVIDLY remember this scenario. having to admit to the grownup that he had taken something w/o paying for it made a BIG impression on him at the tender age of 5. He also learned that if I caught him lying, he would be in trouble. It's much easier to have taught that to him when he was 5, because now he's over 6ft tall and me yelling at him when I have to look up at him might not have quite the same affect. Is he perfect? no. But he knows better and he knows that there will be he** to pay if I catch him in a lie.

[sunshine 229]

I am getting redundent here so this will be my last post on the matter but,

 

I think you guys are expecting a lot from a 9-year-old child. I've raised three kids, they all graduated high-school in the usual number of years and have gone on to University or College ( I mention this just to indicate that I think they are of average intelligence at least) but I would not have been surprised if any of them at 9 years old were confused about charges on a cruise ship.

 

In everyday life they know, you buy something, food, candy, arcade games,mini-putt, you pay money for it. On a cruise ship this rule doesn't seem to apply. You want to eat? You go to the buffet and get food - you're not charged extra. You want to pay mini-putt? You go ask for balls and a club and you play - no extra charge. So to the 9-year-old, the usual rules of exchanging cash for everything you get are not in effect, mom and dad have paid for all this up-front.

 

The only point that I think might trigger a question in their mind is having to give their card or to sign for something but even that is confusing. If you go to use the sauna or gym ( on the ships I've been on at least) they ask for your card and hold it until you bring back the locker key - but they don't charge you to use the locker. It's likely that the kid had to sign in and sign out of Kid's club - but that didn't mean she was charged extra for being there and , if I remember correctly, when we wanted to play mini-putt we had to put our names on a waiting list, which might seem a lot like signing for something to a kid.

 

I just think that being on a cruise especially for a kid things can be very confusing. This highlights the need to explain all this to a child before you embark and I thank the original poster for bringing this to everyones attention as well as pointing out that you can't depend on the cruiseline to de-activate the kid's card, even if they say they have done so.

 

I still don't think that the OP or her daughter deserve the criticism they have received from some on this thread.

[ginadis2002]

First off, I'd like to thank the OP for the heads up. I thought, stupidly enough, that the arcade games were paid for the old fashioned way....with quarters in hand and not with a Seapass card swipe. And I've been on other cruises and on these boards for a bit. Guess I missed a very important tidbit and I've been here for quite awhile.

 

We had some problems deactivating our son's pass on Celebrity a couple of years ago. If we deactivated it, we couldn't sign him up for excursions. It was a round robin of activating, deactivating, activating and quite frankly, a nightmare I hope not to repeat. So I wonder if one chooses to deactivate a card, can one sign up for a ship sponsored excursion? On Celebrity, you couldn't charge it to the parents' cards. It had to be charged to the child's card. Hence, the card kept getting reactivated. Believe me, it took DAYS to sort this out.

 

As far as swiping and responsibility, I can see both sides to this. Children don't equate real money with swiping a card. It's not a tangible transaction. As an aside, adults have problems remembering how much they've charged on credit cards (and they're allowed to do it!). That's what cc companies rely on. So you give (or don't give) a child access to an intangible concept and they run wild. It's totally understandable though totally undesirable.

 

As far as telling or not telling the child what they are allowed to do, I suspect that if I did not allow charging priveleges on my child's card, I wouldn't tell the child that the privelege is even available. Who needs the controversy? So to me, all the child did was what every other child was doing....swiping to get access....at least on the internet.

 

Now here's the other side....I think a 9 year old knows that if you are in a store, things cost money. So if she were in that store, with prices clearly marked, she had to wonder how she was paying for the items. My child would have come to me to let me know that he had swiped and bought something (at least I hope he would). So while the child may not really understand the concept that swiping means a currency exchange, on some level she had to be uneasy about all that swiping even if she didn't quite know the end result.

 

Do I think RCI bears some blame in this fiasco? Sure. Not total, nor complete blame but, yes. I think the policy is geared towards exactly this sort of scenario happening unless you are familiar with the setup. And it doesn't sound like they give enough info about the setup nor always follow through on a request. Caveat empter.

 

I feel for the OP. Big time. I don't care if their child was enjoying the cruise without them. (as long as she wasn't running wild). They learned a hard and very expensive lesson and I appreciate the heads up big time. I'll now be setting up a limit for my son and watching transactions each day.

[madforcruising]

At least the ships I´ve been on I never had to sign any list for playing Mini-Golf, nor I had to ask for clubs and balls. They were simply available from a basket with no crew in sight. Just take them, play and turn them bacl after playing without any formalities involved.

 

Yes if you want a locker at the Sauna/Gym they keep your card but nothing to sign. But how could this confuse any 9-year old? Or are 9 year olds now already supposed to be on their own visiting the gym and sauna and get their own locer keys:confused: .

[ilionite65]

In my opinion, I feel that this post has benefit in informing other parents about this problem. However, since I don't cruise with children that is not what I found most interesting about this post. What surprises me is that anyone, in this day and age, thinks that it is ok to allow a child to roam unattended on a cruise ship! Most parents are responding with appreciation for notification about the cards. I just hope that they don't feel that the ship is an entirely safe environment for unattended children.

[justaknucklehead]

I hate to tell you this, but most parents do think it's safe. Their attitude is that the kids are on vacation too and they should have fun. And the parents want to have fun to, and not have to follow their kids around all day.

[madforcruising]

I hate to tell you this, but most parents do think it's safe. Their attitude is that the kids are on vacation too and they should have fun. And the parents want to have fun to, and not have to follow their kids around all day.

 

Sad but obviously true. But from reading some posts here there is hope that at least a bunch of parents do think about parenting their childs on vacation too.

[Cruisemom39]

Bottom line is the same rules apply on the ship as on land, on vacation as off vacation. No young child should be left to his/her own devices in a shopping mall with a credit card (which is also swiped, no money changes hands, no "freebie" implied). Therefore, no young child should be left to roam the ship. I would not let my children loose in a town of 3,000 people, nor would I set them free on a cruise ship. Every time you see a tragedy involving a child you get the impression "I never thought it would happen to me/in my town" or "Who knew the guy next door was a pedophile". Charging excessive amounts of money is the least of the problem.