should formal be changed to evening or dressy

[MrsMoose2001]

Hi,

 

What do you ladies think, should the name formal evening be changed to something else, like dressy, cocktail or evening attire?

 

Would it make a difference, help, be less stressful in choosing your "formal wear"? Would it be easier for you?

 

The way it sounds to me, formal night is more along what someone might wear to a new year's eve party which to me means a whole other way of dressing?

 

That would mean, full length, cocktail, tea length, evening pants and "fancy" top, cocktail/evening pantsuit to me and for the men, it would mean less stress of a tux requirement but more of an option?

 

What do you all think? As I say, it's not a judgement, criticisim, just curious and would love to hear all of your replies.

[LandLockedInAZ]

I enjoy dressing for formal nights and would be sad to see them go away! I think if the term "formal" were relaxed to dressy, cocktail or evening attire, that would indicate a more relaxed expectation and I would feel out of place to continue wearing what I consider appropriate clothing for formal nights.

I believe some cruise lines have a more relaxed approach (NCL, Windstar) and those who do not wish to dress up but still want to cruise should consider those lines.

[Happy ks]

I already wear what I would consider to be more cocktail party, or holiday party clothing. I don't do the formal gown because I can't stand to pack a huge skirted gown. If we were allowed to take steamer trunks and have butlers arrange for our luggage to be handled, that would be a different story.

 

I'm always comfortable in my choices, I typically fit right in with the crowd, somewhere in the middle ground. So, I guess your answer would have to be, people are already downgrading formal to be semi-formal.

 

I have seen a few ballgowns on cruises and I do wonder how many suitcases they hauled along.

[ryansmemom]

My husband and I enjoy formal evenings on board. It is a highlight of our cruise and we choose our cruise line based on the fact that they provide this experience for us. We have had one cruise on Radisson where there was not an opportunity for formal night. We found that to be one of the things that diminished our experience. There were a few people who did dress formally. We were told that we would have semi formal evenings, however once onboard we found out the evenings were all casual. We were not alone in our disappointment.

 

Anyway, back to the question at hand. No, I absolutly do not want to see the dress codes further downgraded. I know that many people enjoy the formal experience. Many people do not see this as a burden. There are even men who enjoy wearing a well fitting tux.

 

Sorry if I sound a bit defensive. I have felt so beleagured on this point. There are cruise lines that provide a more casual experience for people. There are cruise lines that still provide a more formal experience for those who enjoy this. The cruise lines even have these options on the same ship, for heaven's sake. Formal no longer means gown and tux. You can already wear the things that are being suggested.

 

I am sorry if I am defensive. I feel as though I need to defend myself. I feel that the casual crowd want to take over the ships and not leave room for the people who enjoy getting dressed up and see that as an important, pleasurable experience just because they don't enjoy it. :(

 

Again sorry if I have offended anyone. I am upset at this topic, it really pushes my buttons. Try seeing it from my point of view.:(

 

Linda

[bobby'sgirl]

When I get to cruise again, I will be looking for a formal night. I love getting dressed up and in my current life it does not happen much. On our cruise this past summer, on NCL there was everything. since we were celebrating our 25th, we did the formal thing complete with tux and gown. On NCL we knew that we would see everything but were comfortable in ourselves. I live in pants and jeans during the week but like to dress for dinner dates etc. We are attending a black tie fundraiser in January and will go the tux etc again....Everyone must be true to themselves and be comfortable IMHP.

Mrs.Moose you must be grateful not be living in New Orleans these days. I wonder if that city will ever reclaim its glamour.

[CDRMark]

The term "formal" is one of the few left that is self-explanatory; 'informal' 'casual', 'resort casual', 'semi-formal', etc. all add to the confusion. Let it remain as is. Formal denotes black tie. Then let the lines fight out the exceptions.

Cheers

MarkB

[Happy ks]

I guess if you looked at it the way bobby'sgirl and ryansmemom stated, I think you would have to say no, don't change the name from formal to dressy night, because people would then downgrade from there.

 

All I know is what I've seen on several different lines. The interpretation of formal is different for so many people, I think it depends on where you're from and what you normally wear. I've seen women who are wearing a long cotton dress, that is formal to them simply because of the length of the garment.

 

But, I'm not one to judge and I appreciate the fact they dressed up, they feel happy about what they have on. I suppose formal, to me, is ballgown and tuxedo formal. Even though you do see a few formal gowns on cruises, most of what you do see is more like long (and short) dressy dresses.

[Happy ks]

The term "formal" is one of the few left that is self-explanatory; 'informal' 'casual', 'resort casual', 'semi-formal', etc. all add to the confusion. Let it remain as is. Formal denotes black tie. Then let the lines fight out the exceptions.

Cheers

MarkB

 

I read this all the time. I don't understand why people get confused over it. Formal is black tie, semi-formal (sometimes referred to as informal) is cocktail party attire, resort casual is fine sportswear, casual is cleaned up, no jeans or T-shirts.

[tarheelmjfan]

I would be more inclined to keep the "formal" night wording & change the "semi-formal" or "informal" wording (which seems to confuse many) to "cocktail" or "evening" attire. We too choose a cruise line by the policies they employ. We have no interest in even trying the more casual lines. Personally, we can enjoy any destination as much by staying in a land resort. What we can't get from these resorts is the ambience a cruise provides.

 

On a side note, this is a timely thread. My DH & I are watching football & a commercial came on advertising suits. The catch phrase was "every girl's crazy about a sharp dressed man". I just told DH not 30 min. ago, that I can't wait until our Nov. cruise to spend the evening with "my" sharp dressed man. :D

 

ryansmemom,

I totally understand your frustration. There's cruise lines for all tastes, but the number of people trying to change some of the more formal cruise lines seem to be unrelenting. Why not choose the one that best fits your interests? I just don't get it. :confused:

 

MrsMoose,

I think you happened upon a hot topic. :eek: None of this is in any way directed toward you. :)

[GordyPordy]

Hi Guys,

We have just experienced our first cruise. I must admit we were a bit frightened at the thought of the "Formals". Would everyone be in tuxes (is that the plural of tux?) and ball gowns. We needn`t have worried. We were on the Infinity with Celebrity and felt great. I wore just a normal lounge suit and my wife wore a dressy trouser and top combination. Whilst some people did indeed wear tuxes and ball gowns and full military dress uniforms there were a lot of people dressed like us. I would not change the title as "Formal" does indicate a minimum dress standard but I would have an addendum specifying a minimum standard so that people like ourselves who were more than happy to meet the suit shirt and tie requirement did not spend a lot of time worrying over whether we would feel "underdressed". However, having said that if we did feel out of place we would have accepted that that was what happened on that particular line and would have adopted the alternative options that were always available on the ship.

I think it should be made more obvious that "Formal" need not always mean "Stuffy"

For the other nights the dress codes were "Informal" and "Casual"

Gordy.

[twosit]

Mrs Moose-I understand your question and I think the confusion comes from the definition of formal. If I was to go to an event which I received an invitiation labeled "formal"--I would expect that everybody would be wearing gowns or some sort of very formal pant outfit with the men in tuxes. Semi-formal on land, to me, is just a small step below that. It has been my experience on the cruises I have been on that formal doesn't take on the same meaning. If you read the cruiselines definitions I am pretty sure it describes more party attire. I love to dress up and may wear a gown on my upcoming cruise-but there are certainly an equal amount of very nice shorter cocktail dresses that can be seen on every ship I have been on. I have cruised RCCL, Princess, Celebrity and Carnival. I did find the Carnival to be the least formal (but there was still plenty of formal on that too)--but on the other three I saw some of everything.

I have a really neat cocktail dress that is quite dress that I will wear for one night and I'm on the hunt for a slinky gown for the other night. I recently lost lots of weight--so slinky is a new thing for me. hehe! Oh--btw--my husband has always worn a dark suit and has felt very comfortable--and he likes to be more toward overdressed than under.

[Jane110]

Mrs Moose,

 

This is always an interesting topic.

 

Personally, we don't like the formal nights because DH and I don't like to have to bring formal attire with us on vacation and so our favorite cruiseline is Oceania which doesn't have any formal nights. However, I think it's disrespectful to others to be on a ship that requests formal and then decide that the rules....or "suggested dress codes" are for others. When we do cruise on ships Princess or Celebrity, we certainly being the formal wear. We know what we've signed up for and we dress according the dress codes.

 

I agree with most of the people who feel that the word formal should stay as it is. I think that if the dress code wording was "downgraded" to something like "dressy" there would be just as much confusion and we'd all be stuck with even more people who would show up for the evening ill attired. You may know the meaning of formal, but trust me, many don't!;)

 

Jane

[twosit]

Since there are so many posts on this thread saying that people are downgrading the dress code on formal nights--I thought I would go to the websites of three of the more mainstream cruiselines sho have formal night. I don't see anything about "ballgowns"--I think it is pretty unusual to see "ballgowns" on a cruise.

Here are the definitions on their websites:

RCCL--

They have different descriptions bases on where the cruise is goings--but here is the Caribbean one--Formal: Cocktail dresses for women, suits and ties or tuxedos for men (you can arrange to rent a tuxedo onboard)

Princess:Formal Evenings:

• Evening gowns and cocktail dresses for ladies

• Tuxedo, slacks with dinner jackets, or suits for men

Celebrity:

Formal Night Attire

Ladies: Evening gown or fancy dress

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, dinner jacket or dark suit

 

It seems to me that people wearing cocktail dresses are well within the dress code.

[beth4652]

I enjoy the formal nights because, like many of you, a cruise is one of the few times I get to dress up. However, unlike most men, DS (20) loves to put on his tux. After we bought a tux for DS, DH was not to be outdone, so we bought one for him too.

[happysinglemom]

Formal nights are part of the attraction of cruising for me. I don't know that I would be looking to go again anytome soon if I had to forgo them.

[MrsMoose2001]

First thank you all for your replies.

 

Twosit, thank you for posting that about cruise line descriptions, didn't know if they included that and was one of my reasons for the question.

 

To the other ladies, please I was not saying to get rid of them. I hope y'all understood that it was just a question. No need to defend or justify yourselves. I fully respect the fact that you like to dress up.

 

To Jane, I fully agree with you and what you wrote. It's espcially rude to others not to wear the appropriate attire when it's clearly stated that it is required.

 

I guess I just don't get the word "formal" in this case, but that is just me and that is why I asked the question. I was in no way suggesting that they do away with it or anything. It just seems that a lot of ladies ask, "is this appropriate" as opposed to "is this nice" for formal night, so I figured a word change would be more helpful.

 

For me, formal would mean as Happy said, black tie and full length gown. Since I hear about and see pics of so many other outfits that is what prompted the question.

 

I just assumed that if the wording were changed, it would be more helpful and never thought that people would downgrade further since from what I've seen and heard here, they are already doing it.

 

Please if I offended anyone I appologize. I respect everyones' choices.

 

It really doesn't matter for me, since if we cruised we would always choose a line that did not require formal attire and I doubt we would cruise again in the near future if ever again, as DH and I are in agreement that we are not fans of cruising.

 

I respect those that are and your love to dress up. For us it's the other way around. I don't like "formal attire", and the dressing up I enjoy, I can do here every saturday if I want going out to a nice restaurant for dinner and hubby is happy if he can take off his "suit and tie" for his vacation as he is required to wear one for work. He says "it's not a vacation if I have to dress up" and I see his point completely. He will wear a tie if we are in NYC and absoultely require it, but I try to avoid it at all costs.

 

Every year we are invited to several black tie functions and we always decline. These are functions where you don't get to "downgrade", you must wear a tux/full length gown and one is where a ball gown is required for ladies and we refuse to go.

 

While I'm still confused as to the use of the world "formal", as one poster said, formal is black tie and gown/cocktail dress for ladies, and this is not strictly enforced, I can also understand the relcutance of the name change.

 

Thank you all so much for your replies. Again, if I offended anyone please the question was not there for you to defend your pleasure of dressing up or anything like that.:)

[MrsMoose2001]

Yes, I am happy I'm not in NO now. I was miserable when I was there as I never adjusted to hurricane season. I was there about 25 years ago for 18 months and back then you could book an airline seat without paying up front, you could pay at the last minute at the gate, and I would book a seat if there was just a threat of a hurricane and if it ever would have gotten to the point were it was a good possibility of having one, I would have been out of there so fast. I would never have lived through one.

 

I used to joke, give me a nice safe blizzard any day. Nice place to visit, but I just would not want to live there because of the hurricane season.

[Happy ks]

I don't think anyone has offended anyone else on this thread, it is an interesting question.

 

I happen to vote with you as far as the formal clothing goes. It's fun, but I've cruised without it and that was even better. I'll go the other way, though, and state that I don't think I would care for a cruise where everyone dressed sloppily, unless it was a barefoot cruise. I'll add, this can be a bit controversial, that many people just don't know the difference between casual and sloppy. I would venture to say, if some of the mainline cruises started advertising as casual, you would start having many people translate that to "anything goes". We already see that on many of the cruiselines during the daytime hours.

 

I know you've not had a lot of cruise experience and that's fine. I know my cousin, while she enjoyed our Alaska cruise last year, felt as though cruising didn't give her the time she really wanted to spend in each port town. We enjoy the ship, the service and being on the ocean, for us that part of the cruise is wonderful. It's definitely not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that. My favorite part about visiting ports is that I don't have to drive or fly to get there. My least favorite part about visiting ports is that you have limited time and you have to share it with a hoard of other cruisers. It's probably the main reason I'm not attracted to cruising the Caribbean and why, if we ever cruise Alaska again, I would look into a smaller ship, like an adventure cruise.

[LandLockedInAZ]

No offense taken here, at all! Thanks for your concern, though, Mrs. Moose. I think that shows what a kind person you are. :)

I had never heard so much talk about the difference between a "ball gown" and an "evening gown" before this, so I decided to do a Google search to see what a "ball gown" really is: http://fashion.about.com/cs/glossary/g/bldefballgown.htm

Turns out I've been wearing them on my cruises for quite a while now and I've never felt alone in that! I have cruised HAL three times and that is said to be a more dressy line anyway, though. Even my DD has had a few that are this shape and she looks lovely. I'm sewing a new formal gown (2 piece) for myself and one for my DD for our upcoming holiday cruise, and both will be this shape. I think it looks better on me, anyway, than something slinky.

[ryansmemom]

Mrs Moose,

 

I was not offended by your question. I understood it for what it was, a question for information. However, it did push a button inside of me. I have been called an incurable romantic. I really find that formal evenings with all of the stereotypical acccessories that go along with that are an important part of my cruise. It's all about the fantasy and romance and being queen for a night.

 

I can be very impractical when it comes to things like this. As with all things impractical and fantasy based, this is an emotional issue. The button that gets pushed in me is confusion over why some people who don't enjoy something, who have many opportunities to have what they enjoy can't leave some opportunity for others to enjoy things they may not like. I know I am rambling.

 

When this subject is discussed, there seem to be people who want to eliminate formal night completly because they do not enjoy dressing for the evening. I just participated in a discussion like this on the HAL board a few days ago. The discussion against dressing for formal evenings takes two forms. One is I don't want to do it so no one should. The other is I don't like to do it, I paid for my cruise and I'll do what ever I want to do and go where ever I want to go.

 

I am very happy and releived that this discussion did not take that route. My buttons got pushed and frankly, I got defensive and more than a bit threatened and scared. Scared is a strong word, however there are some people who fear that one of the pleasures of cruiseing will disappear as our society in general becomes more casual, less civil and more aggressive.

 

Linda

[98Charlie]

Formal night to me is not so mucha as what the cruise line dictates but what the pax cruising from the port dictate.

 

Have been on sailings from several ports where ``formal wear'' might mean really dressing jeans and flashy tops and other ports where ``formal'' meant New Years Eve style attire.

 

Doesn't matter to me what others wear on formal nights. DH & I look forward to being gussied up in full tux and sparkly evening gown at least one night a cruise.

 

When else will we wear all these outfits we bought on e-bay?:D

 

Dianne

[mrsred]

Two for one.

 

~e

[mrsred]

Disclaimer: this is going to sound harsh, but it's my humble opinion...

 

I have to agree with most of what has been said, especially the points made about it being part of the package when one chooses to cruise. If you don't like to do the formal thing then by all means choose a line that suits you better.

 

This whole idea of "it's my vacation and I'll do what I want" is just childish. That would be like joining the military and not wanting to wear a uniform, or being an athelete and not wanting to wear the necessary attire. You know what is expected when going into the situation...so dine at the Lido buffet if it's really a bother, but please remember that there are those who enjoy dressing up.

 

Should they change the name...no. It really doesn't matter since most people will do what they want regardless of what you call it. I think we're evolving into a society where some people put their needs above anyone else's.

 

Those who enjoy dressing up should be allowed to do so without feeling they will offend someone who doesn't want to, and the standards should not be lowered to accomodate those who don't want to meet them.

 

I understand that some people see the term "formal" differently, and I have no problem if someone chooses not to wear a ballgown or tux (for personal preference or financial reasons).

 

I do respect those who are uncertain of what is expected in terms of dress and have the gumption to ask.

 

And Linda...there is nothing wrong with being a romantic. Every woman should feel like a Queen, and if that means you want to wear a tiara and glass slippers for formal night then you deserve to :)

 

~e

[MrsMoose2001]

I'm so sorry Ryansmemom that you are made to feel this way.

 

I asked the question to hear replies and gather information from a fashion point of view re "names of things, i.e., ball gown, formal, cocktail attire" etc.

 

I read and enjoy all the posts on this board/group and I think all the ladies have great opinions. What I read a lot is "is this appropriate for formal night etc", so it got me to wondering about names of attire.

 

I fully understand and respect your views and desires, and you should definitely be allowed to wear what makes you feel good and happy on your vacation.

 

I agree completely with all the ladies who said that when the rules say "formal", then it is a lack of respect in general to not dress up.

 

After all most people could not and would not go to a formal event in their hometown in casual attire if the invite was written "formal".

 

I personally would not do it, and I chose our cruise accordingly with no formal attire required.

 

I honestly didn't realize that this was such a "hot topic", and perhaps even a sore one at that or I would never have asked.

 

My question was not to get rid of formal I hope that is understood, I was simply trying to gather why it is called formal and not "evening attire" or something similar. I also didn't know (which I wrote in my original post) if cruise lines describe what "formal" means.

 

I know for my cruise, it was written "country club casual", I called the cruise line to ask what that meant. It was written in InStyle that that statement means a lot of things to different people, and it is very true.

 

Here where I live at the top yacht club, country club casual allows decent jeans and sneakers for most of their events. It's perfectly normal to see it and accepted so I called and asked to be safe.

 

I really do appologize if I ruffled any feathers, upset anyone or hurt anyones' feelings, the intent was not there, I asked so as to discuss fashion terminology and fashion in general and what different names mean.

 

I really thank you for all your replies and answers and appreciate your time, and again please know that I did not mean to hurt anyone or try to take anyone's pleasure away and I really do understand and respect your love of dressing up.

[mrsred]

Mrs. Moose,

 

Personally I did not even think that your intent was anything other than to gather information or to see the views of others.

 

You are probably the kindest person I have "met" on these boards, and would never believe you would do anything to upset anyone or cause ill feelings.

 

Yes..this is a hot topic. I watched the thread on the HAL board that Linda referred to, and as with other forums on this (and other boards) this is one of the top 10 topics which gets ugly rather quickly. I think it's the internet version of discussing religion or politics in "real" life ;)

 

Although this forum is one that (thankfully) rarely gets into the flame-wars which tend to dominate the other forums.

 

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am truly glad you post here. It's always good to know there are those here like yourself who are genuine and caring.

 

~e