should formal be changed to evening or dressy

[happysinglemom]

Mrs Moose - I don't think anyone was offended, but as you can see this definitely is a hot button for many. The reason you see so many people that do not dress formally is that they don't want to...obviously. Formal to me has ALWAYS implied black tie, and I have never understood how that is not definitive. I would never consider attending a formal function to which I was invited, dressed any other way than formal. I would consider that a sign of "social ineptitude". :D

 

You have many opportunities to dress formally, however, I have none. And I love to dress formally; I think it's a blast, and so does my son, even at 12. Cruising to me has always had a bit of "glam" to it, and that certainly is related to the formal evenings. So changing the name to something other than formal would certainly change the tone of the evening, and would absolutely result in people wearing even less dressy attire. It would be ever so much less appealing to me, and to most people I know that cruise.

[MrsMoose2001]

Thank you MsRed for those kind words and everyone else.

 

You are right, I would never write anything to upset anyone or even judge or criticize an opinion.

 

I love talking to all of you ladies about fashion, one of my favorite topics of conversation. I love hearing about all that you buy and wear, bargains, sales, etc etc.

 

For me it's like having a group of friends get together have have a nice chat about fashion, something I truely love.

 

I may not always be the best dressed or match perfectly but I still love fashion and to talk about it and that's why I'm here, to have the ability to express myself and meet other nice ladies.

 

It's not about cruiseing for me, I probably will never go on another cruise but since I don't like saying never, I will say for a long time. DH and I agree that cruise life is not for us. For the money it costs me to go the way I want, and I have to fly to get to the cruise, well just not our thing.

 

I fully respect everyone here who loves cruising and I can even understand why you do love to cruise so much.

 

I'm happy that y'all didn't take what I wrote to be anything more that the original intention, to gather information and discuss ideas and to learn and understand.

 

I also got a new understanding of why the "formal nights" are so important to a lot of ladies, something I didn't understand before.

 

I've also thought about this while reading the replies on this tread and the new one started, and I think that there will always be conflict over this subject unless the cruise lines themselves do something.

 

In no way would I ever intentionally hurt anyone here, or criticize or judge anyone for what they like or their opinions.

 

I was hurt and criticized in the "Alaska room" before my cruise for asking about phone service and I have to say that a few ladies from this board who knew about it, went there and stood up for me, and I thank you for that so please know that I would never ever write or say anything to offend or hurt anyone.

[mrsred]

Mrs. Moose,

 

I think it is appalling that someone as nice as yourself had to deal with such behavior. It never fails to amaze me how rude people can be when someone is asking for assistance.

 

On behalf of the civilized humans world-wide...I apologize ;)

 

~e

[MrsMoose2001]

Oh thank you MsRed, that is so nice of you and it's not for you to applogize although I am deeply touched by you doing it. You didn't hurt me, but thank you, it means a lot to me.

 

Yes, I was very worried about phone service in Alaska and on the cruise and I really was trying hard to find out and get some peace of mind. I explained why even because my mom is 90 and she lives alone and we worry about each other she because of my "breast cancer" and I about her but that she supported me in going and wanted me to go to have a good time.

 

Well this one guy basically tells me off, for worrying about the phone service and some other idiot jumps in and says , something like, so what if she dies what are you going to do about it when you are in Alaska? fly home? And I was basically told by these idiots that maybe I should just stay home, or the bright idea to go not spend any money on phones and buy the "person" a gift and invite them over to make them jealous with my pictures of Alaska and that I could go and they couldn't, what a childish, stupid comment in light of my question.

 

Thank you again MsRed, for your appology and kindness, and everyone else here too who has been very nice and kind to me.

[dolphinbarmy]

hi all im from the uk and have only ever cruised once before with carnival,formal nights were something different for us.we had never been to any formal do's before.my hubby even bought a tux and i bought a long black dress.i was amazed at how many people did get dressed up and i loved it seeing everyone glammed up i felt like i was at a premiere even down to the children in suits it was great,it took us a while to get used to it but we loved it.this year i have bought a ballgown,i must admit though it took me a while to make the decision as i probably won't wear it apart from cruises but its kinda like your in another world and we love that cos after all you are on holiday and doing things you wouldn't do at home well for of lot people anyway.Some people have to wear suits and things for work and can see it from their point of view.

but i think formal should still be called formal.we found that if people didn't want to do formal they just ate somewhere else.

[joelmarj]

This clearly is a very hot topic (cruise on over to the Celebrity board for some heated discussions!). Over here though, everyone is generally respectful and MrsMoose you've handled the topic with great decorum and grace (as always). I've been reading the Celebrity version and get so infuriated about the rudeness and arrogance that I refuse to even respond. However, here I feel at home and as though I can express my own thoughts on the subject.

 

Overall, the meaning of Formal is quite clear to me. However, I think different cultural backgrounds and even regional issues are perhaps what causes a "disconnect" in understanding what it means. However, there is also the group of people that completely and thoroughly understand what is meant by Formal, however these are the ones that insist "its my vacation, I'll do what I want".

 

For what its worth, I love formal nights. My SO and I go all out with evening gowns and tux. It is the reason I select Celebrity over many of the other choices. Do I admonish those who may not meet the "code" - NOPE. Doesn't matter. In the end, I know I feel great all dressed up and love how my honey looks in his tux. Wouldn't trade it for anything, and would be sorely disappointed should it go away. Heck, we're even trying to find someplace for New Years Eve in NY so we can dress in formal wear! (And yes, we both dress for work in business attire, so it's not that it's a novelty either)

 

I hope everyone can find a cruiseline that meets their needs. That's why it's great that there are so many to pick from, enabling everyone to enjoy their vacation in a style that makes them happy.

[Steve13]

My wife and I really enjoy formal nights. I'll wear one of my tuxes and she'll wear one of her long gowns. Other than crusing, we probably only attend 3 or 4 events each year where we wear formal attire, so we enjoy any chance we can get to dress up.

 

I'm always surprised by how many people don't seem to dress up for formal nights. I think that ever since the start of "casual friday" at many offices, people are dressing down more than ever. It seems to even include formal attire as people think formal is less than black tie or a dark suit, and a LOT less on many cruises.

 

On formal nights, I wish they would turn people away that insist on wearing resort casual wear into the main dining rooms. If people want to be casual, there are always plenty of other choices on most ships.

[MrsMoose2001]

Why thank you joelmarj, that is very nice of you to say.

 

I personally would never ever flame anyone or even criticize anyone for their opinion or passion about something as everyone is entiteld to theirs. If I want to express mine, then I have to respect everyone else, but that's me.

 

See here I agree again, with both you and Steve. Casual friday of course started a dress down trend, and of course I also agree that cultural, regional and other factors have a lot to do with it.

 

I also blame it on the cruise line for perhaps not being specific. On my one cruise Radisson, as I've said before, they did not specifiy what country club casual meant. Now I had just read an article on that very topic in a fashion magazine, to always ask what that means because it means different things to different people and areas. Here at the yacht club country club casual allows decent looking jeans (and not so decent looking ones) Radisson said no. I also agree that it's up to the cruise line to enforce the requirements.

 

Problem is bottom dollar, cruise lines won't loose money over "dress codes" and they don't really care. I won't go into this further because I really honestly and truely don't want to hurt anyone and risk that if I repeat what the offer told me.

 

One thing I have to say is that I'm not sure, and maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think that there is a cruise to each location that fits everyones' taste and budget regardless of the reserach done if you don't want alternative dining.

 

By that I mean, if you want an upscale line, that has less families and children, luxury service and food, and don't want to dress and/or eat in an alternative restaurant, and just don't want to dress up.

 

I do agree that formal attire has a certain meaning.

 

Now as for NYC and tuxes and evening gowns. I'm sure Jane could probably give you more info as she is still living there, but when I lived in NYC, almost every place I went, it was black tie for new years eve. Black tie did not mean dark suit, it meant tux or dinner jacket and either cocktail dress or full length gown.

 

The Waldorf used to do a black tie evening, the Water Club (restaurant) had a black tie evening, and almost all upscale places were black tie. the Carlyle Hotel has a new years evening and I'm sure it will be black tie. thecarlyle.com the Algonquin probably will have a black tie affair. Don't know what you are looking for and your budget so hard to suggest.

 

When I was in NYC for new years (most of the time I was gone skiing), I always wore "black tie", either a ladies tux a la Yves St Laurent - Le Smoking, or a cocktail dress or a full length gown.

 

I will say this, if you want to go someplace "hot" "in" or whatever, book now, don't wait. Most places fill up early and you should start thinking about booking something soon, unless things have changed.

[Jane110]

 

Heck, we're even trying to find someplace for New Years Eve in NY so we can dress in formal wear! (And yes, we both dress for work in business attire, so it's not that it's a novelty either)

 

 

Try the Rainbow Room. I'm sure they're doing it up well for New Year's Eve and the views are spectacular.

 

Tavern on the Green would be a lush and formal affair, even if their food is not so great. (well, enough champagne and everything tastes better!)

 

Beekman Towers - We went here on New Year's Eve and it was lovely and formal.

 

Perhaps the Carlysle Hotel? Maybe Bobby Short will be playing?

 

Other suggestions to look into might be the River Cafe in Brooklyn, Terrace in the Sky (at Columbia), Danube,Daniel, 21 Club, Delegates room at the UN, Cafe des Artistes. Or perhaps some of the high end hotels will be "doing it up" formally - Mark's at the Mark, The Four Seasons, The Regency (my fave since we got married there), Le Cirque 2000.

Don't know if these places will be "black tie" or not, but they might......

 

Jane

[MrsMoose2001]

Jane, Bobby Short died, but they are doing a new years party and it's black tie.

 

Lol, I agree Tavern on the Green is not what it used to be, took hubby for lunch 4 years ago and it was really not good, for the price there has got to be something better.

 

Depends on what they want, if they want dancing or not, River Cafe may not have dancing. The Water Club, which was the same owner when I went (but that was 20 years ago) had dancing and it was black tie.

 

The Alqonquin Room at the Roosevelt Hotel will most likely be black tie if they are doing anything.

 

Just remember that many places in NYC will be black tie or black tie optional for new years eve if it's an upscale place.

[memphismimi]

just read your trials and tribulations in the Alaska room - I'm sorry even tho I wasn't there...phone service is not like asking if the ship serves coke or pepsi, and even so, if someone thinks a question is lame, they should ignore it.

 

RCI does spell out their version of "formal", including the leeway of "tux or dark suit" & "evening gown or cocktail dress" - ..so changing the name won't do much on that line...I agree Country Club casual is tougher to translate, as is "snappy casual" etc

 

on our 2nd cruise, this summer, even the staff seemed excited about formal night. my guys are willing to dress up, and dd loves it...but I felt sorry for the females in another family - they made an effort to doll up some (dresses, more than formals, but they looked excited) but the dad was in a sweatshirt...I overheard the daughter say, "now you're talking like a doctor again..." so I assume the dad might have owned at least one tie (med school interview??) - he didn't bother me except that it appeared that he didn't even care how his own family felt...that made me sad (for a moment, then I sailed on to my table...)

[MrsMoose2001]

Thank you, it's back in August just before my cruise, I was a bit shocked but not surprised to be honest.

 

I belonged to a local group here where I live and some of those people had been personal friends, and had been to my house for dinner and they told me "Ossma is not evil, you guys had it coming", so nothing surprises me much anymore especially on a chat board.

 

I may get a little shocked but I have thick skin, lol. but thank you for caring, it's so nice to hear even with my thick skin.

 

I'm not surprised, doctor or otherwise, someone here posted once "money doesn't buy class" and that is so true. I was raised with that philosophy, just look at the Donald, (well that's my opinion of the Donald).

 

I never judge what a person does for a living if they will have manners or class, from personal experience, I've encountered it on the full end of the spectrum, doctors with no heart, no class, no manners, and a blue collar worker with not even a high school diploma with a heart of gold and class and manners up the wazoo, where millionaires and Ivy Leaguers could take lessons from them. So I don't ever judge anyone by how much they have, what they wear, or their professions.

 

As an example, my mom who is 90 years old, went to a doctor for a bladder infecton, the doctor an older man himself, made a rude comment and said, "did you get it because you are having to much sex"? My mom, her first bladder infection in her life, hadn't a clue as to what he meant or why he said it, but was reduced to such embarassment (she is a widow) that words can't explain it. Do I expect him to wear a tie or care about his family, I don't think so.

[Jane110]

Bobby Short died...........

 

 

Yup, I realized that and just as I came back to edit, I saw your message!

 

Well, the Carlysle is the Carlysle and they other wonderful piano players/singers. I'd love to go there on a New Year's Eve.

 

Thanks for your post.

 

Jane

[MrsMoose2001]

I know, I would love to be there to go with you, lol.

 

I will be off on our ski trip for x-mas new years week, so at least I don't have to worry about "black tie", for new years eve.

 

I didn't know if you had heard that he passed away so that's why I wrote it.

[joelmarj]

MrsMoose - you are absolutely right about not every cruiseline meeting everyones needs. There are so many deciding factors such as budget, ports, atmosphere, casual, formal, etc. But I think what people are best off doing is finding what meets their highest priorities. After that some kind of compromise is probably called for. I guess if not dressing formal is really more important, than people could select based on that, however if budget or ports is more important, then at least they go into it knowing they selected a cruiseline that just comes close. Life's a compromise I guess!

 

Now, as for New Years - You and Jane listed some great places. Many we've already looked into. Dancing is a must, we both really enjoy (even though Joel admits to two left feet, we love to laugh as we attempt to be graceful). I'm going to do my homework and see which of these places will work. We've been to a number of these places (I agree about Tavern - not the same). The Water Club was already on my list, but I'll have to check the Regency and the Algonquin. These sound great too. (I've done a bunch of those skiing New's Years too. Now it's just too darn crowded on the East Coast, so we don't go away that weekend. We'll make a trip out West in January or February for nice skiing.

[joelmarj]

Ugh - double posts - sorry

[joelmarj]

OOPS - that dreaded triple post!

[MrsMoose2001]

I agree that there probably has to be some kind of compromise if you really want to cruise. I'm speaking from all the research I did prior to my cruise. I think it also depends on how much the actual cruise means to your vacation choice.

 

I can see that for a lot of the ladies on here, the cruise and the dressing up part is as much a part of their vacation enjoyment as the ports of call, at least that's the impression I'm getting. I think that is great. I respect that.

 

I really hope you find the ideal spot for your New Year's Eve. We normally don't like to ski because of the crowds, but with the way the holidays are here, this year especially, hubby will be off almost that whole week. We have x-mas which is on a sunday and monday which is boxing day so he will get the tusday for the sunday holiday. Then friday will be a half day. Most of his clients will be off too. Some companies close for the week. We find it so boreing and depressing to be home during the holiday season that we just go away and hope for the best.

 

I love to dance, hubby dances to please me which about sums it up, lol. If there is no dancing, he won't complain, lol.

 

I'd really like to know what you choose so please let me know if you don't mind.

[joelmarj]

MrsMoose - I know exactly what you mean about that holiday week. Its usually a great time for me to take off from work. This year, I'll just take a few days, and elected to use the days for what else - MORE CRUISES! :D

 

I'll keep you posted about the New Years Plans! And I'll be sure to report on our attire as well!

 

Marj

[MrsMoose2001]

ok, great and thanks, what cruise are you going?