tlmlb Posted October 26, 2005 #51 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Nothing trumps a tux on formal night, after all it is the traditional definition of formal for men. A better suit will trump a bad tux..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2sea Posted October 26, 2005 #52 Share Posted October 26, 2005 On the first formal night on the eight night Mercury cruise that just ended this past Friday, I noticed a gentleman in Casual attire walking out of the Celebrity Theater. I only noticed him because he stood out so from all of the dark suits and tuxedos. Perhaps shorter (5 days or less) cruises are geared to introduce cruising to people who would not or have not cruised, and as a result they may look a little more casual. On our cruise we had a large group of Elite Captain's Club Cruisers as well as many Select and Classic members. We did see a lot of sports jackets and blazers (some, but not many, ties) on Informal night. That combined with the large majority of tuxes and dark suits on Formal nights would lead me to conclude that the dress code on the Mercury has not changed from what it always has been and what they printed in the Daily Activity Guide. Maybe the shorter cruise is the answer for those who really don't like to dress formally or even informally. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahoymatey3 Posted October 26, 2005 #53 Share Posted October 26, 2005 A better suit will trump a bad tux..... Except a suit isn't strictly formal in the classic sense of the word, so no it does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailfish Posted October 26, 2005 #54 Share Posted October 26, 2005 To be honest with you, I think the formality associated with cruising when it comes to mas marketed cruise lines like Celebrity, is going to be a thing of the past. People are not going to mind dressing up on formal nights (most women especially enjoy this) but I believe the general public prefer a more casual atmosphere the rest of the week. I believe imposing a reasonable dress code is fine. Unlike some of you, I never saw people in the formal dining room dresses inappropriately - no jeans or shorts. Maybe they were there and I missed them. Suffice it to say, since cruising has become availabe to the masses, it has absorbed the style of the times! And for now, we live in a more casual era. People dress on cruises like they dress while on land. Wouldn't you agree, years ago we lived in a more formal time? Heck, as a young kid, I had to wear dresses to elementary school! My husband, who works in corporate America, wears a jacket and tie to work every day. He, like many out there, prefer to leave the shirt and tie at home when they vacation. But I will say, when we go to formal corporate events (quite a few around the holidays) he will don his dark suit and I my cocktail dress. We observe formal nights on cruises in the same manner. We are an active family - we bike, scuba dive and play competative volleyball. Although Royal Caribbean's Voyager class ships in the Caribbean are our preference when doing family vacations, we have come to appreciate the adult, low key atmosphere that sets Celebrity apart. I would never think of taking kids with us on a Celebrity cruise, so you can bet the next time we take a family vacation, it will be aboard another Voyager class ship. On the other hand, we will definitely cruise with Celebrity again - just the two of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Bell Posted October 26, 2005 #55 Share Posted October 26, 2005 It's very possible that what you say is true. There are many people who do and hopefully will continue to like the opportunity to choose. Since there are so many other cruises and cruiselines that offer the more casual option, it would be nice to have Celebrity remain a little more traditional. It seems to me that is why we have these discussions about dress codes. I think it's unfortunate that there is this attitude that everything should be the same. If what you say is true, I can see a future where there will be no desire to travel at all because there won't be anything unique or different to see or do. You can see it to an extent already. McDonalds all over the world and the same merchandise in the same stores all across our country. I'm just grateful to have lived in a time where we could choose to be different because it seems that all anyone wants any more is just a large vanilla ice cream cone. YUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caviargal Posted October 26, 2005 #56 Share Posted October 26, 2005 To be honest with you, I think the formality associated with cruising when it comes to mas marketed cruise lines like Celebrity, is going to be a thing of the past. People are not going to mind dressing up on formal nights (most women especially enjoy this) but I believe the general public prefer a more casual atmosphere the rest of the week. We are an active family - we bike, scuba dive and play competative volleyball. Although Royal Caribbean's Voyager class ships in the Caribbean are our preference when doing family vacations, we have come to appreciate the adult, low key atmosphere that sets Celebrity apart. I would never think of taking kids with us on a Celebrity cruise, so you can bet the next time we take a family vacation, it will be aboard another Voyager class ship. On the other hand, we will definitely cruise with Celebrity again - just the two of us! I think that it is really sad that the formality associated with traditional cruising is apparently falling by the wayside. I have seen this trend on RCI - especially Voyager Class - which is one reason I do not choose to cruise on these trips for my personal vacations. I have been cruising since the age of 9 and dressing up for and enjoying a nice dinner has always been a major portion of my enjoyment. I think that our society in general has gotten more casual but IMHO this is not a plus, it is a negative. I personally enjoy dressing for dinner, on a cruise ship or at home when dining out. I may be in the minority but so be it. I wish I could afford Crystal and Seaborn as these are two of the lines that have managed to maintain a formal atmosphere and do enforce a dress code in order to provide an elegant experience for their guests. I hope that my experience on Mercury was not indicative of a trend at Celebrity. CG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karynanne Posted October 26, 2005 #57 Share Posted October 26, 2005 It's very possible that what you say is true. There are many people who do and hopefully will continue to like the opportunity to choose. Since there are so many other cruises and cruiselines that offer the more casual option, it would be nice to have Celebrity remain a little more traditional. It seems to me that is why we have these discussions about dress codes. I think it's unfortunate that there is this attitude that everything should be the same. If what you say is true, I can see a future where there will be no desire to travel at all because there won't be anything unique or different to see or do. You can see it to an extent already. McDonalds all over the world and the same merchandise in the same stores all across our country. I'm just grateful to have lived in a time where we could choose to be different because it seems that all anyone wants any more is just a large vanilla ice cream cone. YUK Joanie, I'm in complete agreement with you. We specifically choose cruising Celebrity because of the more traditional dress code. It may not be the only reason, just one of many. When choosing a cruise line there are so many variables. Itinerary, cost, service, food, activities, etc. But you should also choose a line where you'll feel you'll be in comfort zone. Celebrity fits my comfort zone, and I for one, don't want it to change. So instead of challenging the dress code, find a cruise line that "fits" your style of comfort. Karyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailfish Posted October 26, 2005 #58 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Joanie, I'm in complete agreement with you. We specifically choose cruising Celebrity because of the more traditional dress code. It may not be the only reason, just one of many. When choosing a cruise line there are so many variables. Itinerary, cost, service, food, activities, etc. But you should also choose a line where you'll feel you'll be in comfort zone. Celebrity fits my comfort zone, and I for one, don't want it to change. So instead of challenging the dress code, find a cruise line that "fits" your style of comfort. Karyn Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeCruisin' Posted October 26, 2005 #59 Share Posted October 26, 2005 , I can see a future where there will be no desire to travel at all because there won't be anything unique or different to see or do. You can see it to an extent already. McDonalds all over the world and the same merchandise in the same stores all across our country. That's an excellent point. When we were in Tallinn, Estonia, and entered the old historic district, it was so very "wrong" for one of the first things seen to be a huge MacDonalds. And even as far back as 1996, when we were in Paris, there was a Burger King on the Champs Elysees. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cruise Lady Posted October 26, 2005 #60 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? On all of our Celebrity Cruises, most passengers have complied with the dress code but we typically cruise "prime season" for a particular itinerary. I have a feeling that this is more of an issue with cruises that are off season because they probably have a greater percentage of passengers who chose that particular cruise for its off season pricing instead of what they want to experience in a cruise line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeCruisin' Posted October 26, 2005 #61 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I think that our society in general has gotten more casual but IMHO this is not a plus, it is a negative. CG I think the technical term for it is "The Dumbing of America". :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBeCruisin' Posted October 26, 2005 #62 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? I disagree. If Celebrity felt the majority of their passengers wanted all-casual dining, then they would undoubtedly immediately drop their dress code requirements. And, to be realistic, how can they enforce it without there being huge scenes where the "me, me, me" people start screaming and causing scenes? Celebrity expects its passengers to have enough class and consideration to self-enforce it. And, incidentally, upon what statistics do you base your statement on what "the majority of the people" want? A minority of people in CC who are very vocal and repeatedly attack as snobs those who respect the dress codes? You can't base it upon what you see on a cruise ship, because the vast majority still voluntarily adhere to the dress code. At the rate all this is going, there will be NO dining rooms on cruise ships. Each ship will have a food-court just like the malls have, where you can choose from MacDonald's, Burger King, Sbarro's, Pizza Hut, etc. Cruise prices would probably be lower, too, because there would be paper plates and cups, and no need for waiters. And the sad thing is that, I'm sure a lot of the "me, me, me" people whould cheer at such an idea. :eek: Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Bell Posted October 26, 2005 #63 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? Why would you think the majority of the people want this? It seems to me to be a very small minority. You notice them because they stand out, but most of the people do what is requested. As I said, I think that because this was a 5 day cruise, you had a lot of people who are not really representative of the usual demographic on a Celebrity cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruising with marti Posted October 26, 2005 #64 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? I disagree, We have been on 6 Celebrity cruises in the past 2 1/2 years, and it has been my observation that the vast majority of pax observe the suggested dress code. Now having said that, I don't go around with pad and pencil keeping score. However folks that ignored the recomended dress code, were not obvious to me. And by the way my last cruise was only 6 weeks ago. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlmlb Posted October 26, 2005 #65 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Except a suit isn't strictly formal in the classic sense of the word, so no it does not. I think the original comment was best dressed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailfish Posted October 26, 2005 #66 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Why would you think the majority of the people want this? It seems to me to be a very small minority. You notice them because they stand out, but most of the people do what is requested. As I said, I think that because this was a 5 day cruise, you had a lot of people who are not really representative of the usual demographic on a Celebrity cruise. I meant the people actually on the ship the week I was there - not the public in general. But since Celebrity makes the rules, please note that on the October 3, 2005 sailing of Mercury (a PNW cruise departing out of Seattle), the ship posted in the daily newsletter at embarkation, that there will be one formal night and four casual nights. Originally Posted by Sailfish Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? As I stated before, people dressed up for formal night and dressed down on the four casual nights. This was a cruise line decision, but if they felt people wanted to dress up, why then did they change the dress code for the week? If you recall, I initially got an email stating that there would be one formal evening, two informal evenings and two casual evenings. Either the ship or cruise line management made the decision - not the passengers! It wasn't a disregard for the posted dress code! It was obvious to me that Celebrity didn't want to enforce the original dress code, so they changed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahoymatey3 Posted October 26, 2005 #67 Share Posted October 26, 2005 My original comment was: "It is much better to be the best dressed person in the room than the worst dressed. Stay with your tuxes." The OP is wondering if he should ditch his tux, because so many do not wear formalwear on formal night. In that context, the best dressed people will be in formalwear on formal night. The cruiselines are 'dumbing-down' formal night for purely financial reasons, IMHO. Its their ship and they can do as they please. Personally, I wish they would enforce the dresscode or do away with it entirely. I'm also very forgiving of 1st time cruisers who had no idea about the dresscodes (happened to me) because their TAs don't warn them. Interestingly, I was lurking on the Radisson boards and people were complaining there aren't enough, if any, formal nights on their cruises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailfish Posted October 26, 2005 #68 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Why would you think the majority of the people want this? It seems to me to be a very small minority. You notice them because they stand out, but most of the people do what is requested. As I said, I think that because this was a 5 day cruise, you had a lot of people who are not really representative of the usual demographic on a Celebrity cruise. Is it true that the people we met on the five night PNW Mercury cruise were not really representative of the usual demographic on a Celebrity cruise. Without being rude, what is the usual demographic? I thought it was similar to Royal Caribbean's - maybe more couples than families. I don't prefess to know much about Celebrity - that was cruise #2 for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2sea Posted October 26, 2005 #69 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Is it true that the people we met on the five night PNW Mercury cruise were not really representative of the usual demographic on a Celebrity cruise. Without being rude, what is the usual demographic? I thought it was similar to Royal Caribbean's - maybe more couples than families. I don't prefess to know much about Celebrity - that was cruise #2 for us. I believe that the usual age demographic is closer to the one I found on our October 13th, 2005 cruise. There were a lot of people in their 40's, 50's and 60's some in their 70's and still less in their 80's and above. And quite a few younger. They may be similar to Royal Caribbean, I only noted one young gentleman (12 years old, maybe?) in the dining room during late seating, and he did behave as a gentleman. But I am not really qualified to speak to the exact demographic that X seeks. However, as I posted earlier, "On our cruise we had a large group of Elite Captain's Club Cruisers as well as many Select and Classic members. "We did see a lot of sports jackets and blazers (some, but not many, ties) on Informal night. That combined with the large majority of tuxes and dark suits on Formal nights would lead me to conclude that the dress code on the Mercury has not changed from what it always has been and what they printed in the Daily Activity Guide." I can understand why Celebrity, hoping to introduce new people to cruising, would relax its dress code for a short PNW cruise by making all but one night casual. But I also believe that your cruise was the exception, and not the rule. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailfish Posted October 26, 2005 #70 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I believe that the usual age demographic is closer to the one I found on our October 13th, 2005 cruise. There were a lot of people in their 40's, 50's and 60's some in their 70's and still less in their 80's and above. And quite a few younger. They may be similar to Royal Caribbean, I only noted one young gentleman (12 years old, maybe?) in the dining room during late seating, and he did behave as a gentleman. But I am not really qualified to speak to the exact demographic that X seeks. However, as I posted earlier, "On our cruise we had a large group of Elite Captain's Club Cruisers as well as many Select and Classic members. "We did see a lot of sports jackets and blazers (some, but not many, ties) on Informal night. That combined with the large majority of tuxes and dark suits on Formal nights would lead me to conclude that the dress code on the Mercury has not changed from what it always has been and what they printed in the Daily Activity Guide." I can understand why Celebrity, hoping to introduce new people to cruising, would relax its dress code for a short PNW cruise by making all but one night casual. But I also believe that your cruise was the exception, and not the rule. Susan I'm probably not the most observant person here, but the make up our 5 night PNW cruise on Mercury seemed about the same as our previous 7 night Pacific Coastal cruise on Mercury a few years ealier. And although there were a lot more kids on our past Royal Caribbean cruises (the norm for them), the adult demographics appeared similar. I believe the largest percentage of people on our 5 night voyage were in their mid 40's to late 50's. There were a few younger people and some kids (not many) and quite a few older people. Many people were from the areas surrounding Vancouver and the Pacific North West. At our table, there were two couples from Namibia, South Africa and a couple from San Francisco. Since we got an invitation to dine at the Captain's table with the Hotel Manager, after dinner, we had a nice one on one chat with the Kristos, the Hotel Director (a fellow scuba diver) who also commented on the decision to make this voyage "Casual". I told him that had come as surprise to us! I recall our 7 night Mercury cruise had all three styles of dress - but there was NO difference between what people wore on informal or casual nights. We dressed up and felt afterwards we didn't need to, as one saw very few dressy outfits or guys in ties on informal evenings. Maybe that cruise also was out of the norm. Just based on my experience, our cruises with Celebrity have been very similar in quality to that of our cruises with Princess and Royal Caribbean. Carnival is much more laid back and casual, as is NCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Bell Posted October 26, 2005 #71 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I think you probably have a lot more people on a 5 day cruise who have never cruised before. It's almost like a sample cruise. I'm sure it would be a more casual cruise. I have no problem with you basing your conclusions on two short Celebrity cruises, but I don't think it's representataive of a typical Celebrity cruiser. I doubt if most of them have ever taken a 5 day cruise or if they have it was one of the first ones taken. I would say it may make sense to have one formal and four casual nights depending where the cruise goes. The first and last evenings aboard are always casual anyway. I prefer to base my conclusions on the 23 Celebrity and 15 other cruises that we have taken so far. Just my experience...who knows, maybe you are much more astute than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailfish Posted October 26, 2005 #72 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I think you probably have a lot more people on a 5 day cruise who have never cruised before. It's almost like a sample cruise. I'm sure it would be a more casual cruise. I have no problem with you basing your conclusions on two short Celebrity cruises, but I don't think it's representataive of a typical Celebrity cruiser. I doubt if most of them have ever taken a 5 day cruise or if they have it was one of the first ones taken. I would say it may make sense to have one formal and four casual nights depending where the cruise goes. The first and last evenings aboard are always casual anyway. I prefer to base my conclusions on the 23 Celebrity and 15 other cruises that we have taken so far. Just my experience...who knows, maybe you are much more astute than I am. I respect the input I get from Cruise Critic members, especially it's most experienced cruisers, so I believe you. We had a great time aboard Mercury and as I stated before, will cruise with Celebrity again. I doubt we will ever do any cruise longer than a week, however, five nights was not really long enough. I continue to prefer larger, more active ships, so we may never cruise the Caribbean with Celebrity. But I would be up to visiting Alaska with Celebrity or going to the Galapagos someday (which I believe is longer cruise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caviargal Posted October 27, 2005 #73 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I meant the people actually on the ship the week I was there - not the public in general. But since Celebrity makes the rules, please note that on the October 3, 2005 sailing of Mercury (a PNW cruise departing out of Seattle), the ship posted in the daily newsletter at embarkation, that there will be one formal night and four casual nights. Originally Posted by Sailfish Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? As I stated before, people dressed up for formal night and dressed down on the four casual nights. This was a cruise line decision, but if they felt people wanted to dress up, why then did they change the dress code for the week? If you recall, I initially got an email stating that there would be one formal evening, two informal evenings and two casual evenings. Either the ship or cruise line management made the decision - not the passengers! It wasn't a disregard for the posted dress code! It was obvious to me that Celebrity didn't want to enforce the original dress code, so they changed it! Your post did refer to Celebrity in general, not just Mercury on that sailing. And the definition of "casual" on Celebrity is most definitely NOT what I saw on that cruise. Jeans and flip flops are NEVER appropriate in a dining room on an X ship. If is not a matter of the line feeling like the passengers wanted to dress up. Celebrity has an established dress code for every cruise. Yes, this cruise had more casual nights but the passenger dress on that ship was not how X defines casual. It was actually three casual, one informal and one formal, according to my dailies. The passengers who "dressed down" did indeed the dress code. And Celebrity chose to ignore the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caviargal Posted October 27, 2005 #74 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I meant the people actually on the ship the week I was there - not the public in general. But since Celebrity makes the rules, please note that on the October 3, 2005 sailing of Mercury (a PNW cruise departing out of Seattle), the ship posted in the daily newsletter at embarkation, that there will be one formal night and four casual nights. Originally Posted by Sailfish Based on my obervations, Celebrity has already "changed" given there was no "enforement" of the dress code! I believe they are keeping in line with what the majority of people on the cruise want, don't you? As I stated before, people dressed up for formal night and dressed down on the four casual nights. This was a cruise line decision, but if they felt people wanted to dress up, why then did they change the dress code for the week? If you recall, I initially got an email stating that there would be one formal evening, two informal evenings and two casual evenings. Either the ship or cruise line management made the decision - not the passengers! It wasn't a disregard for the posted dress code! It was obvious to me that Celebrity didn't want to enforce the original dress code, so they changed it! Your post did refer to Celebrity in general, not just Mercury on that sailing. And the definition of "casual" on Celebrity is most definitely NOT what I saw on that cruise. Jeans and flip flops are NEVER appropriate in a dining room on an X ship. If is not a matter of the line feeling like the passengers wanted to dress up. Celebrity has an established dress code for every cruise. Yes, this cruise had more casual nights but the passenger dress on that ship was not how X defines casual. It was actually three casual, one informal and one formal, according to my dailies. The passengers who "dressed down" did indeed the dress code. And Celebrity chose to ignore the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jff50 Posted October 27, 2005 #75 Share Posted October 27, 2005 At the rate all this is going' date=' there will be NO dining rooms on cruise ships. Each ship will have a food-court just like the malls have, where you can choose from MacDonald's, Burger King, Sbarro's, Pizza Hut, etc. Cruise prices would probably be lower, too, because there would be paper plates and cups, and no need for waiters. And the sad thing is that, I'm sure a lot of the "me, me, me" people whould cheer at such an idea. :eek: Allen[/quote'] I think you've got it. This is what those people that don't follow the dress guidelines are really after. It's probably part of a broader plot to bring about the downfall of western civilization. While I do think there is an excess of "me, me, me" in our country, you are just as likely to find it among those that follow the dress guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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