Polynesian Cultural Center Oahu Who's Been

[beachchick]

MikeKaye: I hope that I didn't give you the impression that I don't see the good things that the churches have done in Hawaii. That's not at all what I meant. I simply do not agree with many of the policies and beliefs of the Mormon church. Do I think they are "bad"? Of course not. My mother was raised in Salt Lake City (we're Methodist/Episcopal; definite minority there), and I've visited and stayed with her Mormon friends many times. They are truly lovely people, but again, I don't agree with many of their beliefs. I agree that to paint the church in a negative light in the history of Hawaii is, on the whole, wrong. I don't think everything that any church has ever done has been "good" or neccesarily with the best of the native cultures in mind. To "convert" them as a primary goal does, to an extent, bother me, but certainly it has been done with good intentions. I don't see that everything the Mormon church has done has been perfect or altruistic. I do see that the Mormon influence has irrevocably changed the Hawaiian/Polynesian societies. Is it better or just different? That's a matter of personal opinion. I never meant to imply that the churches have not done good things in the islands. Although, it is not just the church that has influenced Hawaiian and Polynesian cultures. There are multiple factors at work.

 

I do not agree with the rant against the church, but I do see that not all influences have been positive. Just most of them. And that is my opinion, not a statement of fact.

 

beachchick

[dyslexic pirate]

I questioned whether the PCC is indeed run by the Mormon church to see if indeed it is a 501c3 organization.

 

If it is you should be able to write off the price of your tickets as a tax deductible donation to a charity.

 

Think of the millions of dollars the PCC is bringing in each year tax free and all the people who don't get credit for it on their taxes. (those millions could go toward supporting the LDS women and children living in polygomous sects in Colorado and Utah who currently utilize millions of dollars in welfare money....your tax dollars each year)

 

When I researched Hawaii I was amazed at how the missionaries (from a variety of churches) just about destroyed the Hawaiian culture. Did away with the local way of dressing, banned the hula etc. It really is fascinating to see the power struggles that took place and then when you see all the churches that are everywhere in Hawaii, it's still very intriguing to wonder just what the undercurrent must be even today.

 

The PCC is all about the history of Hawaii and religion was and is still a big part of this state and it's future. So I don't think the two can really be discussed separately.

[dyslexic pirate]

A 501c3 organization by law cannot charge a set admission. They can ask for a suggested donation.

[CruisinMK]

those millions could go toward supporting the LDS women and children living in polygomous sects in Colorado and Utah

 

Many people know that the LDS Mormon church forbids polygamy, sad to see an unfair smear perpetuated here.

 

When I researched Hawaii I was amazed at how the missionaries (from a variety of churches) just about destroyed the Hawaiian culture. Did away with the local way of dressing, banned the hula etc.

 

For the overwhelming majority of people (commoners), local dress meant "almost naked". Yup, those ti leaf skirts are post western contact, 1875.

A truly traditional hula would be really interesting! Just don't ask where to put the dollar bills, it is rude. More about Hula...

 

"A common misrepresentation of history holds that the missionaries banned hula. While it is true that they openly disapproved of hula as both a licentious and idle pastime, they had not the authority to enact laws. In 1830, Ka`ahumanu, the queen regent and a convert to Christianity, issued an edict banning public hula performances, but this had little effect. Although it was apparently never formally rescinded, the law was so widely ignored, especially after Ka`ahumanu died in 1832, that it virtually ceased to exist. In 1836, for example, the French consul for Manila visited Honolulu, and attended a state banquet hosted by the king. Part of the festivities was a formal hula performance. [...] King David Kalakaua's 1883 coronation and his 1886 jubilee celebrations included performances of ancient and newly created dances."

 

Hula was never in any real danger, they had schools operating during the ~50 year edict on every major island.

 

Among the converts to Christianity was King Kamehameha II, who after western contact (but before converting) abolished the traditional "kapu" system. You know, the one where women were given the death penalty for eating pork, bananas and coconuts, or for eating with men. Sure would be interesting to see a truly traditional Hawaiian luau. Now remember honey, whatever you do don't eat the pork or sit anywhere near me.

 

Traditionally commoners owned nothing, were often malnourished from heavy taxes, even their wives could be taken by chiefs. They were killed for looking at chiefs, stepping on their land, failing to bow. Chiefs were supposedly divine gods.

 

King Kamehameha II also destroyed the Hawaiian temples, where human sacrifice was often rampant. Probably wouldn't have happened and stuck if people weren't happy to be liberated from it.

 

So how about that old time religion? I'll just talk about the religious temple sites close to where I live. Heiau (religious temple) at Diamond head had remains showing many human sacrifices with bones broken by clubs, eyes scooped out, other signs of torture. Downtown Honolulu, a Heiau at Fort street right near where the cruise ships come, they had many human sacrifices impaled on poles in lines leading to the temple. Waikiki and punchbowl Heiau had ovens for burning human sacrifices. Mass drownings of commoners at Kewalo Basin. I should be a tour guide.

 

Evidence of human sacrifice stop before 1300, apparently the early Hawaiians were relatively peaceful and the nastiness was introduced by invading Tahitians. King Kamehameha was offered a human sacrifice when he was sick, but refused. Perhaps his trusted western advisers had influenced him to refuse the traditional offering.

 

Missionaries couldn't achieve any lasting change without the support of Hawaiian chiefs who adopted Christianity and western norms of their own conscience and free will. Though humorless, the missionaries had the best interests of Hawaiians at heart and did a whole lot of good, carried forward by the "aloha spirit" of the people. Sure there was some initial conflict from old priests resisting the new religion, but what followed was relative peace compared to the 300 years of constant warfare before Kamehameha II.

 

Church is an integral part of the Hawaiian life and culture today.

The good Hawaiian culture has survived, and is thriving.

Enjoy Hawaii, and if you find that really traditional luau and hula let me know.

[Deb in Cali]

Dyslexic pirate,

 

This is the second political rant that you have posted in the past two days. I don't think that this is the proper venue for you opinions. Perhaps you should try a different site like Democratic Underground.

[dyslexic pirate]

It's not a political rant. Before I spend my money or endorse a place to visit I like to know who runs it and where my money goes.

 

And yes, polygamy is alive and well in America. The mainstream LDS church does not acknowledge it but it is still happening.

Why do you think it's been such a big deal in the news that Warren Jeffs who was on the FBI's top 10 list was recently arrested?

[dyslexic pirate]

Dyslexic pirate,

 

This is the second political rant that you have posted in the past two days. I don't think that this is the proper venue for you opinions. Perhaps you should try a different site like Democratic Underground.

 

I haven't posted any opinions. What I have posted is fact.

 

My opinion is that people should know the facts about what they are spending their money on and how that money is used.

 

Why do you assume I am a democrat? That, Deb in Cali, is political and doesn't have anything to do with this thread.

[dyslexic pirate]

Just to clarify my position: I am not against anyone who is LDS. I don't agree with many of their beliefs but to each his own.

 

My comments about the PCC were made to point out that they are not paying taxes. All well and good, but that also means if you go and plunk down some money and it is going to a government recognized charity, that means YOU should then get to write the cost of your ticket off on your taxes.

 

I don't understand why this isn't stated more clearly in their advertising or printed on the tickets or receipts. (the website does acknowledge the 501c3 aspect) If the tax dedutable status is noted please let me know.

[lucylovesvacations]

Oh wow! I am really disappointed in the narrow view of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) that has been expressed by Dyslexic Pirate. I am a member of this church and I want to come to its defense. We are not polygamists - we do not practice polygamy. Warren Jeffs is not a member of this church. The PCC does not send its money to polygamy groups in Utah and Colorado. Please get your facts straight next time -- rather than ranting about something you know nothing about. www.lds.org is a website you should check into. Thanks to MikeKaye for your posts. :)

[Kay240]

Just to clarify my position: I am not against anyone who is LDS. I don't agree with many of their beliefs but to each his own.

 

My comments about the PCC were made to point out that they are not paying taxes. All well and good, but that also means if you go and plunk down some money and it is going to a government recognized charity, that means YOU should then get to write the cost of your ticket off on your taxes.

 

I don't understand why this isn't stated more clearly in their advertising or printed on the tickets or receipts. (the website does acknowledge the 501c3 aspect) If the tax dedutable status is noted please let me know.

 

 

When you go to an event that is held by a charitable organization, you are only allowed to "write off" the amount you paid in excess of the actual cost.

 

In other words, let's say you attend a dinner dance to raise money for BREAST CANCER RESEARCH, and your ticket was $150. The actual cost of YOUR FOOD, and YOUR SHARE of the cost of decorations, music, etc. was $90; you could add the difference ($60) to your other contributions when you prepare "Schedule A" for that year's federal income taxes.

 

I would think there is no way to determine the "value received" for a visitor at the Polynesian Cultural Center, as everyone would be having a different variety of experiences due to the multitude of what (I am told) is available!

K.

[jrobinso]

Back to the original question....I have been to PCC twice. It was interesting the first time, but I felt it was overpriced. I did go back again several years ago, and I have no plans to return. It is a long drive from Waikiki, and as I said before a bit overpriced. If it was my first trip to Hawaii and I was on a cruise with limited time on Oahu I would do a different excursion.

[Dandylyon]

Removed my post. Sorry--I realized I don't want to participate in off topic discussion