Ncl Is Going Smoke Free!

[RachieLnnn]

I agree that this is why these laws are being made. But, I think that again, this should not be regulated by the gov't. If you don't want to work in the smokey bar, go work in the smoke-free restaurant down the street. It is the same thing as I was saying before, the government intervening to right some perceived wrong in the private sphere.

 

I personally do not think that an employee has the right to change the entire culture of where they work b/c they are uncomfortable. Get another job. Everyone gets a new job for some reason or another, I just got one because I disliked the senior partner. Should have asked the government to come in and make her leave? It is different, but yet it is the same. I think the stress she caused me was just abotu as damaging as any smoke would be :)

 

And what if someone can't just "get another job?" What if they were a single parent, trying to make money at the only bar or restaurant in a small town? (Just an example) What if they did not go to college or did not have other skills besides service? What are they to do then? What if there isn't another establishment in town where they could work?

 

For that matter, what about the employees on cruise ships from other countries? Should they be forced to inhale your smoke? They very well might not be able to find a similar job on another cruise ship or anywhere else in the world with the same pay that is smoke free.

 

Do these people not have the same rights as everyone else because they are in the service industry? I'm not even complaining about the non-smokers on ships. They ahve the choice to go elsewhere. I just don't think the employees should have to breathe it! And THEY don't have a choice!

 

I give NCL a thumbs up for thinking of their employees!!!

 

It isn't all about you and taking your "rights" away, you know.:rolleyes:

 

There are still areas where you can go to smoke on this ship...

 

Finally, thanks to the poster who described in detail all the things they have to do to clean the rooms after heavy smokers....what a waste of employee time! I really wish they would get smoke-free cabins!!!

[johnql]

And if it didn't fail? How does that make life worse? The people who are there in that bar that is known to be racist and proud of it would harbor thouse same feelings in the shadows. Now you just know who they are.

How does that make life worse? You're kidding, right? You're willing to look the other way while fellow human beings are turned away at a business based solely on the color of their skin? You don't think the principles of equal access and equal opportunity are appropriate areas of government regulation?

[meagent]

It may be recent but it's the right thing to do. The Civil Rights Act was passed fairly recently, historically speaking. Recent doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means it took a while for people to see the light.

 

 

Oh I know it is the law, but I do not personally see it is a law that passes the first and most important test: what's the constitutional basis? As far as I can tell, neither your life, liberty or pursuit of happiness is harmed by a bum job. Yes, your happiness may be harmed, but you can quit and go pursue happiness elsewhere. The government is not here to guarantee your happiness, it is here to guarantee that you can try and find it.

[meagent]

And what if someone can't just "get another job?" What if they were a single parent, trying to make money at the only bar or restaurant in a small town? (Just an example) What if they did not go to college or did not have other skills besides service? What are they to do then? What if there isn't another establishment in town where they could work?

 

For that matter, what about the employees on cruise ships from other countries? Should they be forced to inhale your smoke? They very well might not be able to find a similar job on another cruise ship or anywhere else in the world with the same pay that is smoke free.

 

Do these people not have the same rights as everyone else because they are in the service industry? I'm not even complaining about the non-smokers on ships. They ahve the choice to go elsewhere. I just don't think the employees should have to breathe it! And THEY don't have a choice!

 

I give NCL a thumbs up for thinking of their employees!!!

 

It isn't all about you and taking your "rights" away, you know.:rolleyes:

 

There are still areas where you can go to smoke on this ship...

 

Finally, thanks to the poster who described in detail all the things they have to do to clean the rooms after heavy smokers....what a waste of employee time! I really wish they would get smoke-free cabins!!!

 

rachie you are missing my point. It's not my rights, as I prefer smoke free for one. Second, if NCL wants to go smoke free, more power to them and I am sure plenty of people will be happy. I am saying the government shouldn't force them that is all. If we go down this road of what ifs and try to accomodate everyone then this country will go down the crapper faster than I thought.

[johnql]

The government is not here to guarantee your happiness, it is here to guarantee that you can try and find it.

 

I completely agree with you on this point.

[meagent]

How does that make life worse? You're kidding, right? You're willing to look the other way while fellow human beings are turned away at a business based solely on the color of their skin? You don't think the principles of equal access and equal opportunity are appropriate areas of government regulation?

 

No no, you misunderstand. I would not look the other way. I would spread the word that those people are bigots. I would practice my right to freely assemble and protest their policies. There is a remedy to that kind of behavior, and it is built into the constitution.

[cruisingfromMN]

This will be another rule that NCL has that will be partially impossible to enforce (how are they gonna stop someone from smoking a cigar on their own PRIVATE balcony??).

 

Now, when NCL will enforce the NO SAVING LOUNGERS rule and the NO BABIES WITH DIAPERS IN THE POOLS AND HOT TUBS I'll tell my husband not to smoke his cigar on the balcony...:cool: :rolleyes:

 

SO, your DH was the one who ruined our morning breakfast on our balcony while smoking his cigar :) :) !

[meagent]

I completely agree with you on this point.

 

Well maybe we should call it a day and give Thomas Jefferson and John Locke a nod ;)

[johnql]

No no, you misunderstand. I would not look the other way. I would spread the word that those people are bigots. I would practice my right to freely assemble and protest their policies. There is a remedy to that kind of behavior, and it is built into the constitution.

Last time I looked, "separate but equal" was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

[meagent]

Last time I looked, "separate but equal" was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

 

Again, as I said, I don't think it should be that way either, and I think people should protest, etc and do what is necessary in those situations. I am not FOR bad "speech", but I am not for government regulation of that bad speech either. My take is that the cure for bad speech is not less it is more, as in it is better to do MORE of the good behavior than it is to regulate the bad.

 

And just b/c the Supreme Court said it doesn't mean I have to agree :) I am sure that there are things the Court has said or will say soon that you will not agree with either, and thankfully, we still have that right.

[RachieLnnn]

rachie you are missing my point. It's not my rights, as I prefer smoke free for one. Second, if NCL wants to go smoke free, more power to them and I am sure plenty of people will be happy. I am saying the government shouldn't force them that is all. If we go down this road of what ifs and try to accomodate everyone then this country will go down the crapper faster than I thought.

 

I'm sorry I am missing your point. I really just think we will have to agree to disagree. I happen to think it IS the government's job to make sure that people are not put in harm's way, not the job of privately-owned business.

 

I tend to doubt that a business would jump at the chance to put anything above their own money-making needs. Especially if they think it's going to cost them money or if they have to go out on a limb.

 

It's not really a matter of "accommodating" people. It's making sure they are safe.

[heelfan94]

Non-smokers deserve a space free of smoke, and smokers deserve a space where they're free to smoke. It sounds like NCL is trying to satisfy both parties. What more can be done?

[seahorse]

Oh I know it is the law, but I do not personally see it is a law that passes the first and most important test: what's the constitutional basis? As far as I can tell, neither your life, liberty or pursuit of happiness is harmed by a bum job. Yes, your happiness may be harmed, but you can quit and go pursue happiness elsewhere. The government is not here to guarantee your happiness, it is here to guarantee that you can try and find it.

 

Hello fellow Libertarian:D and Objectivist perhaps? Good to see our "young people" have a voice and are not afraid to be heard.

 

I hope that this thread does not go poof.

[Gonzo70]

Here's the problem - there is no such thing as an unfettered freedom. You do not have the constitutional right to do anything you like. It always boils down to a balancing act when one person's right (smoking) is infringing upon another's (breathing clean air). Again, if a privately owned entity is opening its doors as a public accommodation, it can and should be regulated by the government. The question is where to draw the line. It's not always black and white. Following the "privacy" logic, a restaurant shouldn't need a liquor license (government interference) and should be allowed to ban minorities from its premises (racism). But we all know that's not the case because the government can and should intervene when it's in the public's interest.

 

I do agree, however, that we all need to be watchful because even I recognize that too much government could be bad. The problem is we all have different opinions on how "too much government" is defined.

 

Well said.

[cruisebum50]

Non-smokers deserve a space free of smoke, and smokers deserve a space where they're free to smoke. It sounds like NCL is trying to satisfy both parties. What more can be done?

 

Notify people in advance of putting such policies into place! NCL management seems pretty inept when it comes to notifying paying passengers of changes they are making. If they are trying to satisfy all parties why not make a few bars smoking and few non-smoking? Why say all bars are non-smoking? Some of the workers on the ship are smokers (I have seen some in port) and I bet they would be willing to work in the bars that were smoking.

[meagent]

I'm sorry I am missing your point. I really just think we will have to agree to disagree. I happen to think it IS the government's job to make sure that people are not put in harm's way, not the job of privately-owned business.

 

I tend to doubt that a business would jump at the chance to put anything above their own money-making needs. Especially if they think it's going to cost them money or if they have to go out on a limb.

 

It's not really a matter of "accommodating" people. It's making sure they are safe.

 

Yes, I agree, we must agree to disagree :)

 

But you do make the point that is the root of why businesses will ultimately do the right thing: money. That's the point of free markets. It's not that businesses will do the right thing b/c it is the right thing. I 100% agree with you on that. It's that they will do the right thing because it is economically advantageous.

 

For example. NCL goes smoke-free. Other cruise lines notice the amount of business they gained by said move. Thus, Carnival goes smoke free. RC follows suit. Why? Because they see the dollar signs. Pretty soon a balance will be reached, where there are more smokers left than non-smokers and you will have several cruiselines that are smoke free and several that are not. Then everyone can go where they choose and be happy. Is that not a good result?

 

In contrast, government steps in and says all restaurants must be smoke-free. Now, only the non-smokers have somewhere they can be happy, smokers are left to sit outside or not go at all, and several of the restaurants will likely fail as some people just will not go b/c they cannot smoke, and there will not be enough non-smokers around to keep them in business. So they are all out jobs b/c the government steps in.

 

Now the same thing could happen under private business if all cruiselines went smoke-free and then in the end, there was not enough biz for all and one went under and everyone lost their jobs. however, I'd rather it happen do to market forces than b/c Uncle Sam thought he should step in.

[meagent]

Notify people in advance of putting such policies into place! NCL management seems pretty inept when it comes to notifying paying passengers of changes they are making. If they are trying to satisfy all parties why not make a few bars smoking and few non-smoking? Why say all bars are non-smoking? Some of the workers on the ship are smokers (I have seen some in port) and I bet they would be willing to work in the bars that were smoking.

 

 

yeah I think this is the crucial point (outside of our wonderful legal discussion). It really is a bummer that NCL could not put out more notice for all those out there who expected to be able to smoke on an upcoming cruise. I am not that affected by it, but am sorry for those that are.

[dwrist]

Thanks, meagent, for putting into words my thoughts, beliefs and opinions. More truth needs to be spoken. :)

[Given2Fly]

This thread cracks me up. There are some poor people in here who act like they're going to die because they can't smoke anywhere they want for an 8 day stretch ... Addict much?

[RachieLnnn]

Yes, I agree, we must agree to disagree :)

 

But you do make the point that is the root of why businesses will ultimately do the right thing: money. That's the point of free markets. It's not that businesses will do the right thing b/c it is the right thing. I 100% agree with you on that. It's that they will do the right thing because it is economically advantageous.

 

For example. NCL goes smoke-free. Other cruise lines notice the amount of business they gained by said move. Thus, Carnival goes smoke free. RC follows suit. Why? Because they see the dollar signs. Pretty soon a balance will be reached, where there are more smokers left than non-smokers and you will have several cruiselines that are smoke free and several that are not. Then everyone can go where they choose and be happy. Is that not a good result?

 

In contrast, government steps in and says all restaurants must be smoke-free. Now, only the non-smokers have somewhere they can be happy, smokers are left to sit outside or not go at all, and several of the restaurants will likely fail as some people just will not go b/c they cannot smoke, and there will not be enough non-smokers around to keep them in business. So they are all out jobs b/c the government steps in.

 

Now the same thing could happen under private business if all cruiselines went smoke-free and then in the end, there was not enough biz for all and one went under and everyone lost their jobs. however, I'd rather it happen do to market forces than b/c Uncle Sam thought he should step in.

 

It would be GREAT for customers to have smoking cruise lines and non-smoking cruise lines. I agree with you there.

 

Unfortunately I still feel sorry for the workers who are non-smokers and are trying to make the best living they can...while having to breathe smoke.

 

I don't have an answer. In a perfect world, employees who smoke could work at smoking establishments and those who do not would work at non-smoking.

 

I don't really know if that's feasible. But it would be a solution.

[KeystoneCruiser]

They will lose a lot of revenue when smokers realize they cannot smoke in the bars and find the casino bar so packed they can't even near it to get a drink.

 

You know this exact arguement has been used for two years in Ohio as the individual communities started banning public smoking and then the statewide ban. Many bars are reporting higher profits since the ban went into effect, so this arguement is disproven.

[cruisebum50]

This thread cracks me up. There are some poor people in here who act like they're going to die because they can't smoke anywhere they want for an 8 day stretch ... Addict much?

 

No one on this thread said they wanted to smoke anywhere they wanted. What my husband has been saying is why are all bars non-smoking and why were rules put into place without any notification to the paying public. Since these rules will be in place, he will smoke on our balcony and in our cabin, which from most non-smoking posters is a real turn off to them. But since we will have alcohol in our cabin and he can't smoke in the bars that is where he will be. NCL can then do their thorough cleaning as one of the original posters described. No where in the US can you smoke anywhere you want, but changes in laws don't happen without notification to the public.

[cruisebum50]

You know this exact arguement has been used for two years in Ohio as the individual communities started banning public smoking and then the statewide ban. Many bars are reporting higher profits since the ban went into effect, so this arguement is disproven.

 

 

It may have been proven in Ohio but it isn't in Texas where I live. The restaurants and bars here are screaming for a statewide ban becasue smokers just go to the next town where they can smoke. The businesses in towns where it is banned are slowing going out of business and those that are hanging on are the ones screaming for the statewide ban.

[Liquid Shiva]

This thread cracks me up. There are some poor people in here who act like they're going to die because they can't smoke anywhere they want for an 8 day stretch ... Addict much?

 

Well yeah, not far from now smokers will be treaten like criminals (if they are not now),

Non smokers here are complaining about smokers smoking outside (on their balcony!) give them a break!

 

*edit*

for the record, I don't smoke ;)

[Given2Fly]

WAAAAAAAAAAH

 

I see.