Jump to content

praying before trip


partisan

Recommended Posts

Had to think really hard before posting my feelings on this....

Having survived cancer, during my treatments and such I had to have SOMETHING to believe in, well I was raised Catholic and of course turned to God for help....I had to have something higher up than I to believe in, talk to, pray to and God was the only one I knew...

At any rate, I pray every day and thank Him I'm alive and in remission. I don't tout my faith around and try to convert everyone in sight. I think faith is a very personal thing.

Of course, when I travel....I do pray...for safety of my family, ship, crew, anything I can think of. It's just right for me.

As Sarah McLauchlin has said..."might not be right for you but it's right for me."

And I can't/won't judge anyone here for what/who they do or do not believe in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just saw this one..I like it. All I can say is why not pray? Bible says the prayer of folks can change things. There is no such thing as coincidence and predetermined destinys. How can there be? Predicting varables in any setting with people involved is more volatile than chaos theroy. Who knows how any of us will act in a given situation...except God.

 

Talking to the one living God helps us through things for sure but it is just good to talk with Him. If folks think that there is no God and He didn't send His Son to save us from ourselves, one of us is wrong. I'll take my chances with God being correct and the wisdom of men being ...well, wrong!

 

He also said we should have life more abundantly and that includes cruising in the Caribbean, I think.

 

43 days for me.:D

 

Rick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

If god is sooo great then why did he let the tsunami in thailand happen? there has been almost 120 000 people die so far. if someone doesn't believe then they don't. leave it at that. i'm fine. i don't pray. i also don't see a problem with people praying either. if you want to do it, go ahead! thats great. i agree with everything that Buddy L has said.

cheers! jd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:)Love Conquers All:)

 

I too pray without ceasing. We are all so blessed to have our health and means to even be able to post to this message board. I don't know what God's plan was with the Tsunami, but I believe that God is the ruler of Life and death and do pray for the comfort of the souls left to pick up the tiny pieces left from such a disaster.

 

I too don't believe in condemning people. I simply believe I am meant to Love everyone. God is Love!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

150,000 dead now.

Assuming each single death leaves behind 2 relatives and 2 friends...thats 600,000 people in mourning, and thats being very conservative!!

Its not the person who's died thats suffering, although their own amount of suffering in death is incomprehensible, its the people left behind.

If I was totally distraught at losing a loved one (and lets not forget, some people have lost entire families) and someone came up to me and said..."never mind, God is love"...well...can I give my response on a family forum...I dont think so.

Every time a disaster like this happens it just reaffirms my belief God cannot exist.

Where is the compassion? Where is the mercy? Where is the love?

If you analyzed the disaster, and then looked at what you would expect out of a great deity, none of your expectations will be forthcoming.

You just stagger blindly on, following the herd of sheep without a leader, with every single sheep bleating "God is love, God is love" or, "we dont know what Gods reasons were...but they must have been good ones"

I know this is always a contentious issue but, break away from the herd, look at the situation rationally, with careful consideration and in the cold light of day.

A loving God?

Never has been, never will be!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have never felt the peace of God's Love then it might be hard to understand. We all WILL die one day. Sometimes it happens to a lot of people at once, sometimes one at a time. What happened in Asia is Horrible, and I could not begin to understand what those people are going through. I believe that those who are left behind will face many hard days and terrible lonliness, and I pray that God's Peace will be with them.

 

As for God's Compassion, God's Mercy, and God's Love...Sometimes its not for us to understand and be "rational" but really, Buddy, if you think you can be rational and realistic for all situations and have understanding of all things in this world, you aren't being rational or realistic. There are just somethings that we CANNOT understand, for those times, some of us choose to believe in a Loving GOD. And sometimes, just like parents discipline their children, Love takes many different forms. Perhaps God's Love in Asia is taking those people to heaven?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If NOTHING else, I'd rather believe there is ONE who is perfect and without sin. I'd rather believe that my soul has a place to rest better than that which is here on earth.

 

It may not be rational, but there are other things (miracles of God) that man cannot explain as rational. Look around you, see the miracles and decide that one supreme being created those and us.

 

No, we cannot understand God's concept of love, mercy, time, etc. We can only see it through our eyes as man. Why not follow sometime that teaches love, kindness and forgiveness? It's powerful.

 

Tsunami, earthquakes, disaster, Death? We will all die someday. Who are we to decide that death is final and so horrible? They may just be better off than we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I thought I would chime in, which is not like me because I normally don't believe a message board is a place for these discussions (as they always lead to a bitter battle) :D Buddy, I respect your beliefs... I am a Christian and proud of that. What you don't understand not being a Christian, is that for us... this (life that is) is not the destination... it is the journey. I am FAR from perfect... and I remind myself of this every day :rolleyes: But it helps to know that I'm not expected to be perfect. You speak as if death is such a horrible thing, but for Christians, it's not... some get to their destination sooner than others. Sure, the concept of death is unsettling for everyone... however, it does happen, to everyone. Would you want to live in a world without death? Everything that happens in this world happens for a reason, reasons that are difficult to understand and that test us every single day. Test our faith. Test our willingness to press on. For Christians, even the tragedies are hard to understand, but our faith pulls us through. For us, the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, period. You can pray, you can attend church, you can live a good life, but without that acceptance, it means nothing. If you do nothing else, but just want to "understand" how we think... read and do some studying on the book of Revelation. It was truly an eye opener to me. Read about the history, the churches, their meanings, their status today, etc. If nothing else, it may expand your mind to understanding how and why we feel the way we do. I'm not asking you to change your beliefs, as I said, I respect your beliefs just as I would ask you to respect mine. My parents are not true Christians, but I love them and pray for them even moreso. Having to explain "why" we believe or feel the way we do is impossible... you can't put it into words. I feel better in my belief, and yes, it is challenged daily. It would not be such a grand destination if it was that easy to get there. For me, it's not as simple as "there is a heaven and a hell"... it's more basic. I believe there is a Heaven, this is where our Lord is and will be our home... ANYWHERE other than that is Hell... as HE won't be there.

 

As others have said... why NOT believe? Walk outside and look up... on a clear night, when the sky is full of stars, it is a beautiful site.... if it is that beautiful looking UP there, can you even begin to imagine what it looks like from the other side??? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GoinCruising

Agree with many of your comments and I totally admire the strength of your faith, although, of course, I feel its somewhat misguided, but I still have complete respect for your beliefs.

Like many a Christian has tried to explain to me the wonders of the World, alternatively I just look at things in a more measured and rational manner.

 

If I could be my usual pedantic self, can we just look at some recent posts!!

 

 

You speak as if death is such a horrible thing, but for Christians, it's not

So...if everyone who died in the tsunami was a Christian, should you not be throwing parties and cheering them on to a better life?

Instead of trying to get away, why didn't all the Christians turn around, run towards the wave with open arms shouting "Yee haw, this is it"?

And, instead of headlines like `Wall of death` why couldn't we have `Wave to heaven` or something like?

 

For me, it's not as simple as "there is a heaven and a hell"... it's more basic. I believe there is a Heaven, this is where our Lord is and will be our home... ANYWHERE other than that is Hell... as HE won't be there.

Hang on, what you are saying there is...It IS as simple as heaven and hell...there are only 2 options!!

Sounds to me like God is a dictator...believe in me or you can't come in, and if you can't come in it will be HORRIBLE!!! Thats like a rigged ballot.

 

Would you want to live in a world without death?

Quite frankly...Yes!!

...or at least a world where death isn't quite so painful. Why do people have to suffer?

 

Look around you, see the miracles and I'd rather believe that my soul has a place to rest better than that which is here on earth.

CONTRADICTION...do you love the creation of Earth and its miraculous splendour or is it not so good?...make your mind up!!

 

Perhaps God's Love in Asia is taking those people to heaven?

And perhaps not?

 

Lets look further afield...what about the natural world, all the animals killed in the disaster...probably as many as people...do they go to heaven? or is heaven strictly for Homo sapiens?

It must be a lonely heaven without mans best friend...and where do you get milk for coffee?

Now, i'm pretty sure I haven't seen a single animal pray or walk into a Church on a Sunday so they must all go to hell?

The Devil must be sick of animals by now!!!

2 million duck-billed Platypus, the Devil and some Lawyers...now thats Hell!!! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buddy,

 

I totally respect your opinions, although I don't agree. But you have done what so many do, in picking out the bits and pieces with which to contradict instead of the entire message of said previous posts.

 

As I don't think this argument is going to lead to a conversion of either side, I'd appreciate your consideration of my previous statements:

 

As for God's Compassion, God's Mercy, and God's Love...Sometimes its not for us to understand and be "rational" but really, Buddy, if you think you can be rational and realistic for all situations and have understanding of all things in this world, you aren't being rational or realistic.

 

There are just somethings that we CANNOT understand, for those times, some of us choose to believe in a Loving GOD. And sometimes, just like parents discipline their children, Love takes many different forms. <== As loving parents sometimes spank their children, it doesn't mean that those parents don't love their children, but loving correction would change their course of actions. For Christians, God knows our human limitations (how much we can bear) and though we may not think we can handle the suffering, sometimes it is the suffering that teaches us the lessons God wants us to learn. From those lessons, we can appreciate things better, help others, and love God's purposes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a fascinating exchange. I believe that we will all have a much happier group of cruisers if talk avoids 2 things-religion and politics. Talk about anything else and we can agree to disagree. Talk about politics and religion and everyone has to be right.

 

Why doesn't everyone just keep it personal and keep it to themselves?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would imagine since the title of this post is "PRAYING BEFORE TRIP", then you realize what it is about and should probably just skip over it if not interested. This board is about cruise rituals... so if people want to discuss this, It's fair game... those that don't want to read it always have the option of not doing so... Just my opinion of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buddy,

 

I totally respect your opinions, although I don't agree. But you have done what so many do, in picking out the bits and pieces with which to contradict instead of the entire message of said previous posts.

 

As I don't think this argument is going to lead to a conversion of either side, I'd appreciate your consideration of my previous statements:

 

As for God's Compassion, God's Mercy, and God's Love...Sometimes its not for us to understand and be "rational" but really, Buddy, if you think you can be rational and realistic for all situations and have understanding of all things in this world, you aren't being rational or realistic.

 

There are just somethings that we CANNOT understand, for those times, some of us choose to believe in a Loving GOD. And sometimes, just like parents discipline their children, Love takes many different forms. <== As loving parents sometimes spank their children, it doesn't mean that those parents don't love their children, but loving correction would change their course of actions. For Christians, God knows our human limitations (how much we can bear) and though we may not think we can handle the suffering, sometimes it is the suffering that teaches us the lessons God wants us to learn. From those lessons, we can appreciate things better, help others, and love God's purposes.

If I quoted every single entire message, my post would be about 5 times longer, too long really.

The bits and pieces I've picked out are virtually the point yourself or others are making in a condensed form. The point is still there and my arguments against are still totally relevant.

You state I can't be rational or realistic for all situations...why not?

If I have a situation I dont understand in this world, I will tell you. That is me being `realistic`. If I can see a possible problem I will try and find a `rational` solution.

There are many things we cant explain, but I wouldn't say its a miracle or an act of God just because we dont understand. There are still tribes in the Amazon who have never seen electricity, and if you showed them they would bow down as if looking at an act of God, why?...because they dont understand.

 

So, lets look at your last quote, (which i've included in full) parts of which I've tried to answer above. Parents have to discipline children, I agree, because children need to learn right and wrong...I am an adult, with, I feel, a good concept of right and wrong, grown up enough to understand good and bad, and I dont need some giant earthquake and tidal wave to teach me any different!!!

So, God is trying to teach us?

What happened to the parents firm word? a gentle smack?...No, God couldn't show himself and give a firm word, could he?

Wonder why?

"I'll teach humans to love fellow man by killing fellow man" Yeah, that makes sense!!

And all the people who died, who believed and appreciated their lives as they were, leaving behind such an enormous trail of grief.

God comes along and says "Now can you appreciate things a whole lot better?"...er, actually, no.

What about somebody who ekes a meagre living, lives in a ramshackle dwelling, trying to support his family, lives by what he feels are the right values and prays every single day to God. He feels he's doing the right thing every day yet it still will not help him one jot. Earthquake, tidal wave, death!!!

And the even more ridiculous thing is...the people left behind with the grief and the famine and the disease, which will kill even more, and all their possesions in a shoe box and their entire family devastated...will get together every day and say "Thank you Lord" :eek: It absolutely beggars belief.

 

I know neither of us will ever convert and I would never ever ask anybody to do so. I just put rational and logic to my argument and ask people to look at things realistically, Its only my take on the situation.

 

By the way, you still haven't answered what happens to all the non-praying animals?

Kind of messes up the `pray to God and you'll get in heaven` theory!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The boards are open for observation and for participation. Not only was I rebuked for making an observation, someone even prayed (said Amen) when someone else told me to butt out. And no one knows whether I pray or not. Again, I prefer to keep my beliefs to myself. You on the other hand are debating with open believers and you cannot be right. As I say, no politics, no religion. Tolerance and accepting of differences. Now wouldn't we all be better off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The boards are open for observation and for participation. Not only was I rebuked for making an observation, someone even prayed (said Amen) when someone else told me to butt out. And no one knows whether I pray or not. Again, I prefer to keep my beliefs to myself. You on the other hand are debating with open believers and you cannot be right. As I say, no politics, no religion. Tolerance and accepting of differences. Now wouldn't we all be better off.
I think the point people were making to yourself is, its an open forum, free for people to debate the subject if they wish or ignore if they are not comfortable with it.

As you say, politics and religion, 2 subjects you think should be avoided, thats ok, its your opinion, read but dont post.

If we are all adult enough, (and I feel most cruise critic members are) we can have an intelligent debate about a fairly controversial subject, in a constructive and friendly manner.

And when you say I cannot be right, I beg to differ. I am 100% right in my own mind just as every other person who posts is 100% right in theirs.

I am not asking anybody to change their beliefs, I am just discussing the issues openly. I enjoy the banter and debate and hope nobody is offended even though it is a very contentious topic. Feel free to join in but if you are not comfortable with it sit back and enjoy.

I'm sure we take a little bit of something from other posts, what makes people tick, what makes the world go round, and I'm sure we all learn something of personality's and traits. Even if we dont agree you can always take something constructive away.

Meanwhile, whilst the World lurches from one disaster to another, I'll continue to be my old pedantic self :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buddy, huge respect is directed your way. I appreciate the opportunity to banter with you.

 

As for your animal question...I can only answer from my Christian beliefs: that is that God did not create animals for His companionship as he created man, therefore the souls of animals are not subject to the same faith requirements as us humans. Somewhat similar to the death of an infant child within a womb, never having the opportunity to establish a relationship with "The Father". I don't have all the answers, but do appreciate having the opportunity to discuss in a civilized manner these touchy subjects.

 

Thank you, Buddy!! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KTsMom...Thank you

None of us have all the answers but if the world joined in, in the same manner as we have debated we may find one or two of them!!

 

BarbSails

You should never say the battle is won whilst there is still so much destruction and poverty and despair in the world...The battle will never be won!!!

 

And the original post was a question...do you pray or not?...if the post meant for everybody to pray I would have moved on to the next forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just listening to the radio in England which, of course, is all about the disaster in Asia.

One interesting question has been posed:

When a disaster of this magnitude happens, do you question your faith?

Is there ever a seed of doubt that creeps in when you hear the entire World saying "Why?"

Never even a tiny amount?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When a disaster of this magnitude happens, do you question your faith?

Is there ever a seed of doubt that creeps in when you hear the entire World saying "Why?"

Never even a tiny amount?

Nope, not for me. The magnitude of it only reinforces MY faith. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Realproperty,

 

Interesting take. If you're not a Christian than you have nothing to lose by this discussion. If you are, your Heavenly Father has no desire for you to keep it personal. What good does it do to believe and not proclaim?;)

 

 

Buddy- I think everyone doubts on some level at some time. The Word says we are all given a measure of faith and it is different for us all. Even Peter doubted and was in fear.(See the part about chicken crowing three times.):)

 

But just like a wonderful Caribbean sunrise, it comes back in all of it's glory.

That faith gives us the only true hope we can have...That the second coming of our Lord will reunite us with Him forever...no more tears, no more fear....and I get a new body. I could use one!!!

 

Good luck in your search and may God give you peace and His path.

 

Rick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Realproperty,

 

"Interesting take. If you're not a Christian than you have nothing to lose by this discussion. If you are, your Heavenly Father has no desire for you to keep it personal. What good does it do to believe and not proclaim?;) "

 

Murgman, thank you for your comment. I am almost afraid to respond since I have been rebuked more than once on this board. However, you commented so let me respond, (with trepidation). First, I don't know what a Christian wins or loses by this discussion. It is a discussion reflecting points of view. Second, I do not believe that any one religion has a monopoly on prayer. I have little doubt that every religion has some kind of prayer before embarking on travel in the same way that they all have prayer before partaking of food. Whom we thank is probably not as important as that we give thanks. Third, as for what our Heavenly Father wants of us, that too is a matter of personal belief. I assume that your belief calls for proclamation. My only point, and I mean no offence, is that there are, in my view, times when restraint should be exercised in such proclamations since they may be regarded as disrespectful to the beliefs of others. While they may be appropriate in church, or in gatherings of like minded people, they may not be appropriate for example, in the workplace. Hence, my comment that there are times when religion and as I said politics are best kept private and personal lest they either offend or create a debate that can lead to ill-feelings or more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • ANNOUNCEMENT: Save $2,000 & Sail Away to Australia’s Kimberley
      • Hurricane Zone 2024
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Cruise Critic News & Features
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...

If you are already a Cruise Critic member, please log in with your existing account information or your email address and password.