Sick to death off kid haters!!!

[CanadianTwosome]

OK, have to agree with 6W on this one, if she's going to WAIT until her child has behavioral skills to take him/her on a cruise that would be an excellent thing.....

 

If I waited till my kids had behavioral skills I wouldn't be cruising either. Manners and public behavior are works in progress, even as an adult, and my hope is that as I introduce the children to a cultured, civilized world, they will learn to actively incorporate these observed social skills into their daily lives. (My DH was raised in Africa, and we're still working on his social skills ;) ) However, I would never force my kid's lives on anyone. They are painfully aware, even as young children, that straying outside the norms of accepted behavior results in being removed from the social situation. No fun being in the cabin with a stern-looking mom, is it?

 

Being in the cabin with a stern looking mom? Goodness gracious, why would you do that? You can just go down to the hardware store before you leave and pick up a package of those plastic zipties and use them to secure your misbehaving child to their bed so that you can go out and enjoy the ship without them. Just remember to leave some sort of... um... 'receptacle' for them if they can't reach the bathroom... :eek:

 

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

Okaaaaaaaaaaay... Sorry, I couldn't resist. I think we have a bit of a differing opinion about what 'adequate' behavioural skills are, though. It sounds to me like your kids do have the skills they need - and a parent ready to manage the situation. My daughter is far from perfect. She's a kid, after all. Before we left on our last cruise we did restaurant tests and actually quizzed her on etiquette!! ha ha ha We discussed ad nauseum what sorts of behaviour would get her that 'stern parent in the cabin' banishment, and talked at length about how much more fun it is to just make good choices so that everyone could enjoy their trip (including those around us). I didn't expect perfection, but I can (proudly) say that she was incredibly well behaved and in no way disruptive to any other passengers. I did, however, see some adults that I wish had practiced their behaviour before boarding!! ha ha ha

 

We're all looking forward to our next cruise in January, and I hope I see more of the same impeccable behaviour, but I'm not 'that parent' that thinks her child can do no wrong. It happens. It could happen while we're on our next cruise. Or it might not. Maybe cruising just really brings out the best in her!! Man, what a great reason to keep cruising. ha ha ha

[katerkat]

Before we left on our last cruise we did restaurant tests and actually quizzed her on etiquette!! ha ha ha We discussed ad nauseum what sorts of behaviour would get her that 'stern parent in the cabin' banishment, and talked at length about how much more fun it is to just make good choices so that everyone could enjoy their trip (including those around us).

 

I went on my first cruise when I was 12 (not because my parents waited, but because they just hadn't discovered cruising yet. Obviously since my parents booked our upcoming cruise, they have no such plans to wait until Russ is 12!) Before we left, for MONTHS my parents had us practicing our "cruise manners." So much that it is so vividly instilled in my memory that, 15 or so years later, I still tell my son something is "not cruise ship manners." (And then he looks at me like, "what's a cruise ship, mommy?" :p But we're working on him.)

[Erwin Family @ Sea]

No no likes rude and disruptive kids. Most are not! Let the haters hate, the cruise lines know who spends more money. Statistically, for every $1.00 per person that non family cruisers spend a family of four will spend $1.23 per person. Who do you think managment wants on a cruise.

[windy city escapee]

Poppa bear? If anyone says anything of that nature around my children they will have to deal with MOMMA BEAR!

We are on the same cruise with howdyall and we are taking our 5 children with us. We never once thought about going by ourselves. I have to say that I am really surprised to hear the complaints from so many adults about children. I never dreamed there would be so many when we booked this cruise almost a year ago.

Are we taking them all out of school for a week? YES (Why does this seem like such a big deal. They are in 2nd grade, Kindergarten and preschool! What the heck are they going to miss out on?)

Are we going to have them in the dining room with us? YES

Are we bringing a dvd player for the dining room? NO (My children are expected to behave a certain way when we go out to eat and most of the time they comply.)

Are we going to let the 2 year old in the pool with a swimmer? NO

Are any of my children going to have a meltdown? Well, considering they are 7, 5, 5, 5 and 2, I think that the odds are pretty good.

Will I remove them if we are in the theatre or the dining room if I can not get them to calm down? Of course I will.

Will any of my children put their hands in the food on the buffet? Honestly, I don't know. However, from past experiences with buffets if they put thier hands on something THEY HAVE TO TAKE IT!

When they did this, were they "sticking their dirty hands in food we are going to eat and spreading disease"? NO, My children are taken to the restroom as soon as we arrive in a restaurant so that they may wash their hands. In fact they use a papertowel to open the bathroom door because they have seen their fare share of adults who do not wash their hands.

I suppose it is easy for people to be so judgemental towards children. Just like mumeof3 said, there are some people that just can't handle their children. However, I think most of the people who take their family on a cruise know ahead of time how their children will probably behave.

 

Bravo Mom!

I have a saying - If we expect nothing from our kids, that's exactly what we'll get. As parents, we can expect good behavior and good manners from our kids, if we are willing to take the time to teach them. And a cruise is a great time for teaching. Sitting in the fancy dining room is a great time to teach good table manners, and also that the world has more to offer than chicken nuggets and fries! Last cruise our kids had to order one new item (from the adult menu) each night, and even if it wasn't their favorite, they got to order dessert. And they learned a cloth napkin goes on your lap!

Have a great trip!

[RCCLismyfav1]

I am so incredibly offended by your post and on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin... Happycamper? Help me out here

 

 

I am a mom and a proud one at that, he is 23 and went everywhere with us, I am also around children 5 days a week 14 hours a day and I do love each and every child as I do my own. Wew glad I made that clear! ;)

Now, I do think that everyone has made a good point but something you must remember, I don't want to be around a screaming child for 3-? hours on a plane, (It gives me a headache) not to mention how hard it is on that child! I don't want to eat food that your child or any other child has touched! Why? Because they have probably had their hands up their nose, in their mouth, touching their private area right before that. I also feel the same way if an Adult has touched the food! Now remember I am with children for 70 hours a week (so I have seen and heard it all)! Don't be mad or angry because some people don't love and think everything Jr does is cute or natural or expected for his/her age. It is the parents responsibilty to keep your child's behavior under control, ex: make sure they have plenty of activities to keep them busy, take plenty of their favorite snacks, take any and all movies and portable DVD player to keep their interest. Last, make sure your little sweetheart does not touch the food that someone else will or may be eating. This is what being a responsible parent is about folks! Yes I can ew and ah at any child but frankly that's as far as it goes when I'm on vacation! We have raised our children and I was very considerate of other people when my child was having a melt down,I removed him from everyone until he calmed down, I never ever allowed him to dish his own food out in a public place:rolleyes: . If you think there is nothing wrong with your little sweetheart touching the food that others will eat please allow someone to spit in your food first and come back here and please tell me how it all worked out for you. It's only commen sense that a parent would remove a screaming child, not allow them to touch the food others are about to eat. :p

I am not too old for children, I'm still young enough to be a mother and old enough to be a grandmother. I still love children to be in my presence but beyond the point of having children with me 24/7! And it is my choice not to have small children around me while I'm on vacation that not only did I work hard to save for but for sure deserve!

By the way, we always request that there be no small children around our cabin, sitting at our table, and we never sit by anyone that has small children when we are on vacation. That is our choice and frankly better for us and you too!

By the way PaPa Bear need not say anything to us because this MaMa Bear and PaPa Bear that I love so much, well we can growl right back!

[bryndlwulf]

I can agree with both I guess. We have always taken our son on vacation with us. I always said I would never leave him home because then it would not be a family vacation. He even went with us on our honeymoon cruise to Bermuda. He is now 14 and would rather stay home. We have a new baby (7Mo.) and we took her with us on vacation over the summer when my son was visiting his father. She was almost too good to be true. My son has always had excellent behavior on our vacations as well. It always upsets me when people automatically assume the my children are hellions and will annoy them in some way. We have never had a problem on CCL or RCL but on Celebrity we overheard a multitude of nasty people making assumptions about his behavior. That said, on our trip this summer we were seated on the plane from San Jaun in front of a family with two children that were our of control. They were about 3 and 5 and the parents made no effort to control the tantrums and otherwise extreme behavior. I blame the parents entirely for my discomfort. I certainly did not expect to forget the children were on board especially since I was travelling with a 5mo old. But if you make no effort to soothe a baby/child or discipline them if old enough then you are to blame for the behavior and the reason others make snap judgements about children in general. We are taking our first cruise without children in 15 days and are both dreading and looking forward to it.

[larronry]

I am a mom and a proud one at that, he is 23 and went everywhere with us, I am also around children 5 days a week 14 hours a day and I do love each and every child as I do my own. Wew glad I made that clear! ;)

Now, I do think that everyone has made a good point but something you must remember, I don't want to be around a screaming child for 3-? hours on a plane, (It gives me a headache) not to mention how hard it is on that child! I don't want to eat food that your child or any other child has touched! Why? Because they have probably had their hands up their nose, in their mouth, touching their private area right before that. I also feel the same way if an Adult has touched the food! Now remember I am with children for 70 hours a week (so I have seen and heard it all)! Don't be mad or angry because some people don't love and think everything Jr does is cute or natural or expected for his/her age. It is the parents responsibilty to keep your child's behavior under control, ex: make sure they have plenty of activities to keep them busy, take plenty of their favorite snacks, take any and all movies and portable DVD player to keep their interest. Last, make sure your little sweetheart does not touch the food that someone else will or may be eating. This is what being a responsible parent is about folks! Yes I can ew and ah at any child but frankly that's as far as it goes when I'm on vacation! We have raised our children and I was very considerate of other people when my child was having a melt down,I removed him from everyone until he calmed down, I never ever allowed him to dish his own food out in a public place:rolleyes: . If you think there is nothing wrong with your little sweetheart touching the food that others will eat please allow someone to spit in your food first and come back here and please tell me how it all worked out for you. It's only commen sense that a parent would remove a screaming child, not allow them to touch the food others are about to eat. :p

I am not too old for children, I'm still young enough to be a mother and old enough to be a grandmother. I still love children to be in my presence but beyond the point of having children with me 24/7! And it is my choice not to have small children around me while I'm on vacation that not only did I work hard to save for but for sure deserve!

By the way, we always request that there be no small children around our cabin, sitting at our table, and we never sit by anyone that has small children when we are on vacation. That is our choice and frankly better for us and you too!

By the way PaPa Bear need not say anything to us because this MaMa Bear and PaPa Bear that I love so much, well we can growl right back!

I sure hope you are taking a 21 or longer day cruise on the most expensive ship there is just be sure that your wishes are met. Because if a family just happens to select the cabin next to yours I don't think anyone can stop them.

 

BTW I'm just curious why did you decide to come read and post in the family forum because none of us here believe our children should touch other people's food (including in the buffet), or should be allowed to scream without being removed from the situation (when on a cruise ship anyway because with a child going through the terrible twos the best thing to to is for the parent to walk away-then it last 2 seconds, but on the ship I will pick him up and walk out of where ever we are and go to mine or my friends cabin whichever is closer) so everyone basically agrees with you yet you find it necessary to throw it in parents faces.

[mom23guys]

Interesting posts.

I usually don't frequent these boards but was just looking around on CC. Anyway, here's my take(if anyone cares)

I have three grown sons so haven't traveled with a young one in a few years. We always took our children on vacations. We took them to fine dining establishments from the time they were young. We did try to take them to dinner early. At the first sign of a meltdown one of us would take them for a walk outside the dining area. My children were the cutest, smartest, and well-behaved (LOL) but I couldn't inflict that on those dining around me.I love children but there are some parents that need reeducating.

We usually request late seating when taking a cruise. There are fewer children but it's not the children that can annoy me but their parents. Most young children can not handle dinner at 8 or 8:30. They are just too exhausted or hungry to practice that good behavior they've been taught but there have been a few tired, miserable young ones at a late seating.

We used to take our children to Walt Disney World every year but even there I was careful to make sure they had their rest and ate at reasonable times. We always took the kids back to the room for a rest in the afternoon, made for much happier kids. I can't even count the number of cranky kids waiting on ride lines at 10 PM. Did these parents really care about their children or just want to get their money's worth?

Kids need new and varied experiences, family time, etc. but they also NEED structure and some sort of routine. Keeping young children out till late at night because Mommy or Daddy want to see the late show or prefer late dining is not fair to the child or the rest of the passengers.

I teach. My number one rule in class is be considerate of others, it's a good rule to live by. It applies to those traveling with children AND those traveling without them. Kids are not just minature adults, they will behave differently than they've been taught because they are kids. Parents just need to be prepared to adjust their plans to adapt to their child's need.

[larronry]

I can agree with both I guess. We have always taken our son on vacation with us. I always said I would never leave him home because then it would not be a family vacation. He even went with us on our honeymoon cruise to Bermuda. He is now 14 and would rather stay home. We have a new baby (7Mo.) and we took her with us on vacation over the summer when my son was visiting his father. She was almost too good to be true. My son has always had excellent behavior on our vacations as well. It always upsets me when people automatically assume the my children are hellions and will annoy them in some way. We have never had a problem on CCL or RCL but on Celebrity we overheard a multitude of nasty people making assumptions about his behavior. That said, on our trip this summer we were seated on the plane from San Jaun in front of a family with two children that were our of control. They were about 3 and 5 and the parents made no effort to control the tantrums and otherwise extreme behavior. I blame the parents entirely for my discomfort. I certainly did not expect to forget the children were on board especially since I was travelling with a 5mo old. But if you make no effort to soothe a baby/child or discipline them if old enough then you are to blame for the behavior and the reason others make snap judgements about children in general. We are taking our first cruise without children in 15 days and are both dreading and looking forward to it.

While you are absolutely right, the parents coming to this board are not the ones who would ignore their child(ren)'s bad behavior. I hope you don't miss your little girl too much. I went on a cruise last Dec without my son and I won't say say anymore. I hope you are on a ship with a better e-mail connection then I had if you like to check in.

[lovesublime]

Wow! I can't believe this thread. Our son is grown, but I like to read this forum because we have an upcoming cruise with our 12 yo neice. We've only been on a couple of cruises, but we have never encountered any problems with children. To me, cruise ships are perfect for families. I agree that some children could probably use some discipline, but that's not my job. Besides, how long am I actually in presence of an unruly child? Not for long. It just doesn't bother me.

 

A way bigger problem I've noticed lately is people taking babies into movie theaters. I would say that the last 4 out of 5 movies we went to had crying babies. We don't even go early. Usually it's the 9:30pm or later show. I can't comprehend it. Also, the worst travel experience we ever had involving a child was on a plane. We were on an 8 hour flight to Hawaii and the baby seated in front of us screamed and cried nearly the entire flight. We had maybe an hour and a half of peace. I really felt for the parents-they were obviously upset and distressed. It seemed that nothing that mother did could quiet that baby. A couple of the flight attendents tried walking with him. Nothing. It got to the point where I think everyone on the plane wanted to lock Mom and baby in the lavatory. It was hellacious. Even my headphones on couldn't dull the high pitched crying and screaming. Everyone was truly miserable.

 

Now, I don't know what could be done in that circumstance and I think everyone truly felt terrible for those parents, but lord! If we had been flying over land instead of the Pacific I'm sure we would have made an emergency landing and put the family off the plane. I guess my point is this-if you've flown with your child once or twice and that is what happens each time, then maybe you just shouldn't fly until the baby is older. A little bit of crying is ok, but not the whole flight. It's not fair to the baby, yourself or anyone else.

[mom23guys]

Once when flying with my second son, about 8 months old at the time, his was screaming for about a half hour. Turned out his eardrum perforated. It was a terrible time for all.

[larronry]

OK I'm even more petrified to fly with my son.

 

I flew with him when he was 9 months and he was a perfect angel. Well ok he fussed a bit but was easy to sooth and slept part of the way of the 3 hour flight each way. I don't think he fussed at all on the return flight.

 

But I've been nervous to fly with him since he became a toddler because of all the horror stories. I don't think a parent can know how a baby or toddler can react from flight to flight necessarily. Sometimes it just depends on the day, but I am glad to know that the flight crew actually tried to help.

 

I'm supposed to fly with my son the end of may when he will be almost 32 months old.

[lovesublime]

I think this baby was sick. He sounded congested and coughed a lot. That could have been from crying though. Very unfortuate for all. It was probably his first time on a plane.

[mom23guys]

I know when this happened with my son it was his second flight. He didn't appear at all sick but apparently had some fluid build-up behind his eardrum that didn't show symptoms before the flight. The flight crew was great but really very little they could do. Actually once the eardrum perforated he settled down because the pain was gone.

[lovesublime]

I know when this happened with my son it was his second flight. He didn't appear at all sick but apparently had some fluid build-up behind his eardrum that didn't show symptoms before the flight. The flight crew was great but really very little they could do. Actually once the eardrum perforated he settled down because the pain was gone.

 

That sounds awful. Sorry, I don't want to go off topic, but I'm curious if your son suffered any permanent hearing loss. One of my neices had a difficult to treat ear infection-took 4 months on many different antibiotics. Her eardrum ruptured and her hearing has been diminished ever since. It been several years since. Just curious.

[mom23guys]

No permanent hearing problems. Thanks for asking.

[lddam]

BTW I'm just curious why did you decide to come read and post in the family forum because none of us here believe our children should touch other people's food (including in the buffet), or should be allowed to scream without being removed from the situation (when on a cruise ship anyway because with a child going through the terrible twos the best thing to to is for the parent to walk away-then it last 2 seconds, but on the ship I will pick him up and walk out of where ever we are and go to mine or my friends cabin whichever is closer) so everyone basically agrees with you yet you find it necessary to throw it in parents faces.

 

 

Gee, I didn't realize that Cruisecritic had established guidelines restricting who can read and post on particular threads. Since my children have left the nest, does that mean that I should not be reading anything on "Family Cruising?" Hummmm, I'm not disabled, so by your logic, I guess I shouldn't visit that site, either. Oh, yah, I'm not gay or lesbian, so that's another one to avoid. Oh, dear, since I can't afford luxury cruising, that should be another one, huh?

[larronry]

Gee, I didn't realize that Cruisecritic had established guidelines restricting who can read and post on particular threads. Since my children have left the nest, does that mean that I should not be reading anything on "Family Cruising?" Hummmm, I'm not disabled, so by your logic, I guess I shouldn't visit that site, either. Oh, yah, I'm not gay or lesbian, so that's another one to avoid. Oh, dear, since I can't afford luxury cruising, that should be another one, huh?

No, but would you go to a disabled board and tell those who are disabled that you are telling the cruise line that you don't want any disabled passengers to be booked in cabins around your cabin or to be dining at tables around your table? No, I didn't think so. Well that poster came to the family board and said just that about children and yet we are all here to find out about how to cruise better with children whether they are 6 mos or 17; ours, our grandchildren, godchildren, nephews, nieces, children of our friends or travel companions.

[rebeccalouise]

I am jumping ahead here and have to say that I like ships where kids are in the fun factory. kids zone/ etc. I don't want to be on a ship where kids dominate.

 

However, let me say that I have been on NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Disney, Princess, Celebrity, Oceania, Holland America and Costa and have NEVER seen a child throwing a tantrum. In fact, kids are great little travelers.

 

I don't want to be on a cruise ship with 3000 plus people. I prefer the smaller (90K tons or under) ships with less than 2000 passengers. This isn't a kid thing- just a passenger thing

[larronry]

I am jumping ahead here and have to say that I like ships where kids are in the fun factory. kids zone/ etc. I don't want to be on a ship where kids dominate.

 

However, let me say that I have been on NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Disney, Princess, Celebrity, Oceania, Holland America and Costa and have NEVER seen a child throwing a tantrum. In fact, kids are great little travelers.

 

I don't want to be on a cruise ship with 3000 plus people. I prefer the smaller (90K tons or under) ships with less than 2000 passengers. This isn't a kid thing- just a passenger thing

Unfortunetly they aren't making those smaller ships anymore. Infact it seems they are making them bigger and bigger and bigger. I'm going to get lost on my next cruise I'm just sure of it. Actually she is smaller then the Princess ship I was on last year but I loved the Century because I just felt she was a perfect size. :)

 

And I've never been on a ship where kids dominate. Then again I've never cruised in the summer which is when I guess it is most likely to happen.

[rebeccalouise]

Unfortunetly they aren't making those smaller ships anymore. Infact it seems they are making them bigger and bigger and bigger. I'm going to get lost on my next cruise I'm just sure of it. Actually she is smaller then the Princess ship I was on last year but I loved the Century because I just felt she was a perfect size. :)

 

And I've never been on a ship where kids dominate. Then again I've never cruised in the summer which is when I guess it is most likely to happen.

 

 

I have sailed twice on Millenium and it is just wonderful. One of my favorite vessels. The youth program is excellent. I felt that the staff loved my son almost as much as I do. That is saying alot! I have sailed Celebrity six times and he has participated in the Fun Factory on four of those sailings. One year (5/05) we did a 14 day Transatlantic on the Millenium. The following April 2006 we sailed on Constellation and one of the youth counselors (Lisa from England) recognized us on day one and that made me feel great. Other crew members spotted me on board and said "Where's Marc?" or " Where's your little boy?" So these crew members were on Millenium and remembered us. That means alot. Celebrity doesn't get the number of kids that other lines do- just enough to give special attention to the kids on board.

 

Happy sailing- you'll love Millenium!:)

[Cruisin' Chick]

Bravo!

 

I am pregnant with our first child and would never dream of taking our kids on any type of trip like this until they are at least double digits in age. Yes, we had family vacations growing up, but they were usually something we could reasonably handle (camping, car trips to see the family, etc.). It wasn't until we were older and could appreciate where we were going that vacations became big and exciting. I don't see why others can't do the same.

 

Ah, but what you're saying now and what you'll be actually doing a few years down the line will probably be so different. I'm not kidding about this.

 

My hubby was reluctant to take our little one on a cruise. We decided to try a 3-day one when she was 23 months old. We all had fun. She was one month too young to participate in Camp Carnival. We didn't have a relative to help kidsit her. It didn't matter. And she actually was a little angel at that time -- which was something as she tends to be high maintenance. We followed the cruise up with a few days in San Diego. Her first hotel stay. Worked out fine. Since then, she's been on five more cruises (which involved one flight and one train trip -- fortunately, we live an hour away from a port), her last cruise at 8 years of age. Every vacation we have taken of at least two days duration has involved a cruise.

[RCCLismyfav1]

I sure hope you are taking a 21 or longer day cruise on the most expensive ship there is just be sure that your wishes are met. Because if a family just happens to select the cabin next to yours I don't think anyone can stop them.

 

BTW I'm just curious why did you decide to come read and post in the family forum because none of us here believe our children should touch other people's food (including in the buffet), or should be allowed to scream without being removed from the situation (when on a cruise ship anyway because with a child going through the terrible twos the best thing to to is for the parent to walk away-then it last 2 seconds, but on the ship I will pick him up and walk out of where ever we are and go to mine or my friends cabin whichever is closer) so everyone basically agrees with you yet you find it necessary to throw it in parents faces.

 

I'm so sorry that you think I am throwing it in parents faces that's not what I was trying to get across. I just think there are some parents that think everyone should just accept what ever behavior Jr. is portraying that day and either like it or leave. I have read some post that come across that way. All of our cruises have been 9 days or longer and there were plenty of children on every cruise and for the most part very well behaved:D . But I also know that if people don't step up and say something some parents will do nothing about their out of control children.

[larronry]

But I also know that if people don't step up and say something some parents will do nothing about their out of control children.

But they won't do something about their children anyway. The people on this board are the ones that try and control their children. We just realize our kids make mistakes. Whether we like it or not we can try and block them we can try and prevent it, but sometimes we just aren't fast enough.

 

Yesterday I was at a kids event at a bookstore. As part of the acting/story there was fake food on display. I couldn't get up there fast enough to stop my son from sticking the fake hot dog bun in his mouth. There is no way I wanted that plastic hot dog bun in my son's mouth.

 

There are two types of parents 1. the ones who don't care and 2. the one's who care, but who aren't going to be perfect all the time or fast enough all the time. The one's who are here are of the second variety. We don't want our kids to scream or stick there hands in the buffet and we want to find out from other parents the best ways to prevent it. But sometimes it's just going to happen.

 

And btw adults stick there hands in the food at the buffet as well. And one time I told an adult to get a fresh plate for the buffet. He looked at me like I was crazy while he had the serving utensil touch his used plate.

[Erwin Family @ Sea]

Gee, I didn't realize that Cruisecritic had established guidelines restricting who can read and post on particular threads. Since my children have left the nest, does that mean that I should not be reading anything on "Family Cruising?" Hummmm, I'm not disabled, so by your logic, I guess I shouldn't visit that site, either. Oh, yah, I'm not gay or lesbian, so that's another one to avoid. Oh, dear, since I can't afford luxury cruising, that should be another one, huh?

 

I'm beginning to question your sincerity. You have a eloquent way of defending only those that subtly try to discourage parents from bring children on board. I look forward to your rebuttal.:rolleyes: