Sick to death off kid haters!!!

[lddam]

I'm beginning to question your sincerity. You have a eloquent way of defending only those that subtly try to discourage parents from bring children on board. I look forward to your rebuttal.:rolleyes:

 

Erwin Family @ Sea, feel free to question my sincerity all you like. Unfortunately, your perception of my integrity is limited to the written word in this forum rather than through an opportunity to look me in the eye, to listen to the tone of my voice, and to observe my body language. I invite you, therefore, to look back at any of my posts and you will find that at no time have I advocated not having children on a cruise. Instead, you will find that I have been consistent in advocating a position that students should not be removed from the formal academic setting for the purpose of cruising, or for any other vacation, for that matter.

 

Cruising is an exceptional experience for children, and indeed, we have taken our daughters on cruises with us. However, for any number of reasons, my wife and I decided that travel would not take precedence over their formal schooling, and we vacationed only during breaks in the academic calendar. Granted, it was more expensive to travel during those times, crowds were larger, the pace often more frantic, and timing wasn't always convenient, but we weighed that against their academic responsibilities and made a value judgment regarding their attendance. If we couldn't afford to take a "big" vacation one year, then we saved our money and did the "big" one the following year. During those off years, we filled their summers and breaks with other, less expensive yet life broadening experiences. It was amazing to discover how many inexpensive and age-appropriate opportunities existed within 100 miles of our home by simply visiting local travel and tourism offices. We fully realize that not all learning takes place within the confines of a classroom and we provided opportunity to enhance our daughters' informal education in this manner. Seemed to work for us, and therefore I know it is possible.

 

In effect, what I am saying is that myriad opportunities exist throughoput the year for enjoying quality family experiences without finding it necessary to withdraw a child from school in order to achieve those experiences.

 

Oh, as an aside, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt regarding their sincerity unless they give me just and blatant cause to question it. I resent your implication.

 

Dave of ...

[larronry]

OK where did that come from? We weren't talking about pulling kids out of school.

[lddam]

OK where did that come from? We weren't talking about pulling kids out of school.

 

"Oops," he said sheepishly. I got my threads mixed up! Sorry.

[Erwin Family @ Sea]

Your correct in many regards. In fact I ejoyed some of your post with regards to river cruises. However you have gone out of your way to defend not only your remarks, but also those of others.. To suggest that the majority of those that post disparaging remarks about families cruising with children, are doing so because they are concerned about the foundation of my childs education is nuts.. I only question your need to defend the comments of those that both you and I know have selfish motivations.

[CanadianTwosome]

Your correct in many regards. In fact I ejoyed some of your post with regards to river cruises. However you have gone out of your way to defend not only your remarks, but also those of others.. To suggest that the majority of those that post disparaging remarks about families cruising with children, are doing so because they are concerned about the foundation of my childs education is nuts.. I only question your need to defend the comments of those that both you and I know have selfish motivations.

 

I don't think this is entirely accurate. I think all the people who post believe that they have something valid to contribute. Just try posting an opinion about homosexual marriage somewhere and see what happens. Before anyone starts actually commenting on it, please don't - I was just using it as an example because EVERYONE has an opinion about it. The same goes for children, where they should and shouldn't be, how they should and shouldn't be raised, etc. Whether people have been parents or not, each and every one of them believes that they know the 'right' way to parent.

 

That being said, I also find it frustrating to have people, who do not appear to have a current interest in the subject, contributing in ways that sometimes appear judgemental or otherwise negative. I see just as many posts that do appear relevant, open minded and positive from the same 'outside' group. I completely see the point of wondering why someone without that current interest would be on a specific group - personally I don't have the time or interest to visit boards that don't apply to me or my family, but I guess others do. I don't think there has to be an ulterior motive, I think some people just feel strongly enough about their opinions that they believe they are helping by contributing. Whether you and I agree is a moot point as this is a free board. ;)

[LHP]

We have been traveling with our two boys since they were 6 months and 3 years of age.

 

We did the age appropriate things, that did not include cruising until they reached 5 and 8 and we felt like they were ready to try cruising.

 

They have been on 18 cruises and have always behaved exactly the way they were expected. Why? Because that is the way they behave at home.

 

10PM has always been quiet time in the cabins and hallways.

No jumping on the beds or furniture, because they never did this at home.

No yelling or screaming in the cabins because (again) they are not allowed to act like this at home.

No running around and shoving people. No visits to the hottubs, because the signs said adults only. No visits to the gym, because the sign says 16 and above.

 

No beating the silverware on the plates like some idiot parent allowed their 3 year old to do every night in the formal dining room on the Victory earlier this month and certainly no running around the tables.

 

Were they always perfect? No. Were they always well behaved? Yes

Did they still have a great time? According to them...yes.

 

We always realized their limitations and were respectful of them. They have traveled with world with us without a problem, because we never put them in a situation they were not ready for.

 

They are now 16 and 19. Oldest one is in college majoring in Chemical Engineering with a 4 year academic scholarship and a job awaiting him at Eastman Chemical ~paperwork came in today!! (even though he is only a sophmore)

 

The youngest has autism. We have never allowed his disability to be an excuse for poor behavior. He will be "our child" forever. He is loved by Club O2 directors across the Carnival fleet.

 

So can traveling with children be done RIGHT...of course.

Do enough parents do it RIGHT...sadly no!

 

I think the parents who have the proven track record with their own children (like myself) are less tolerate of those who are to ignorant or to lazy to do it right.

 

So we now cruise when school is in session.....

[larronry]

I don't think this is entirely accurate. I think all the people who post believe that they have something valid to contribute. Just try posting an opinion about homosexual marriage somewhere and see what happens. Before anyone starts actually commenting on it, please don't - I was just using it as an example because EVERYONE has an opinion about it. The same goes for children, where they should and shouldn't be, how they should and shouldn't be raised, etc. Whether people have been parents or not, each and every one of them believes that they know the 'right' way to parent.

 

That being said, I also find it frustrating to have people, who do not appear to have a current interest in the subject, contributing in ways that sometimes appear judgemental or otherwise negative. I see just as many posts that do appear relevant, open minded and positive from the same 'outside' group. I completely see the point of wondering why someone without that current interest would be on a specific group - personally I don't have the time or interest to visit boards that don't apply to me or my family, but I guess others do. I don't think there has to be an ulterior motive, I think some people just feel strongly enough about their opinions that they believe they are helping by contributing. Whether you and I agree is a moot point as this is a free board. ;)

I totally understand that I had only made the comment I made because a parent of adult children came to the board and made it clear that she was done raising children and she or he requests to have no children in cabins around her cabins or tables around her table in the dining room. So I came right out and asked why she or he would come to the family board and why they would make such a statement here on the family board. Then someone else made a statement that they had the right to visit the disabled board or the gay board and I then said that I doubt they would go to the disabled board and make a statement that they requested that the cruise line not put anyone with disabilities around their cabin or around the dinner table. Not to belittle those with disabilities I work with the population and primarily those with autism, but why on CC is it OK to attack families thus the title of this thread?

 

We have been traveling with our two boys since they were 6 months and 3 years of age.

 

We did the age appropriate things, that did not include cruising until they reached 5 and 8 and we felt like they were ready to try cruising.

 

They have been on 18 cruises and have always behaved exactly the way they were expected. Why? Because that is the way they behave at home.

 

10PM has always been quiet time in the cabins and hallways.

No jumping on the beds or furniture, because they never did this at home.

No yelling or screaming in the cabins because (again) they are not allowed to act like this at home.

No running around and shoving people. No visits to the hottubs, because the signs said adults only. No visits to the gym, because the sign says 16 and above.

 

No beating the silverware on the plates like some idiot parent allowed their 3 year old to do every night in the formal dining room on the Victory earlier this month and certainly no running around the tables.

 

Were they always perfect? No. Were they always well behaved? Yes

Did they still have a great time? According to them...yes.

 

We always realized their limitations and were respectful of them. They have traveled with world with us without a problem, because we never put them in a situation they were not ready for.

 

They are now 16 and 19. Oldest one is in college majoring in Chemical Engineering with a 4 year academic scholarship and a job awaiting him at Eastman Chemical ~paperwork came in today!! (even though he is only a sophmore)

 

The youngest has autism. We have never allowed his disability to be an excuse for poor behavior. He will be "our child" forever. He is loved by Club O2 directors across the Carnival fleet.

 

So can traveling with children be done RIGHT...of course.

Do enough parents do it RIGHT...sadly no!

 

I think the parents who have the proven track record with their own children (like myself) are less tolerate of those who are to ignorant or to lazy to do it right.

 

So we now cruise when school is in session.....

You chose to wait till your children were a bit older then I have because that is what was right for your family and that is fine. Also, long car rides and/or planes may have worked with your children. (I can get to the port in about 20 minutes or so) I think that my 2 year old will enjoy the attention he can get from his father and myself on the ship as well as the more relaxed environment. Any other type of vacation my DH just can't do nothing and let my son do his thing. It's alway go go go (My DH gets board easily). Being able to go to the dance area during the day and being allowed to run around will be a blast for my son. Walking around the islands for a couple of hours will be fun (my son loves to walk he throws a tantrum when we get to the car after we've walked around the mall for two hours). It's the first time we can go away as a family with no phones, no computer, and no have toos.

 

As for the banging the silverware. I can't say my son doesn't do it, but I don't allow it. As for the gym if I get to go for a tour of the gym before the ship sails because, at least in the past, they offered a deal for exercise classes, then he'll go then, otherwise he won't be going in. DH and I will do the tour together which is why he'll go.

 

You are absolutely right that it drives me crazy when I see parents not taking care of their children. But that doesn't happen to often. I think most parents do it right it's just that we tend to remember the ones that do it wrong. I tend take my son to family restaurants during family hour, and to story time at the library and book stores, and to the mall and I usually see either well behaved kids or moms trying really hard to get their kids to behave.

 

I am glad that you are able to take your autistic son with you. I'm sure at times it must be difficult. I've had clients take their low functioning autistic children on a cruise. I really would hate to see what some of the posters on this board would say about them. These kids did enjoy the cruise, I saw the videos, but they also had meltdowns.

[rebeccalouise]

the kid debate could go on forever.

 

I think it is common sense- if you don't enjoy children- then cruise during the school year or pick ships that don't attract families- Oceania comes to mind.

 

If I didn't have a child- I probably wouldn't cruise the mass market lines at all. I'd chose something small and intimate.

 

There are enough cruises out there for everyone- kids haters and parents with kids alike.

 

And for the record- kids love cruising. They seem really happy on ships. I can't say that for all the grumpy old people I see on board! In fact, the crew love kids because they are full of sunshine not vinegar.

[lddam]

I only question your need to defend the comments of those that both you and I know have selfish motivations.

 

I guess it boils down to "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

 

Dave

[larronry]

In fact, the crew love kids because they are full of sunshine not vinegar.

You are so right. In fact our room steward got mad at us last year when we didn't bring our son and told us we would regret it. He was right. :( There were little ones all over the place and all I wanted was to hold them all. If anyone one of those parents would have looked like they needed a break I swear I would have offered to help and would have showed them my photo album of my little one I left at home. :D

[CanadianTwosome]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Sharon... when I said I didn't think the comment was accurate, I was referring to the comment about people making posts for selfish reasons.

 

LHP, I disagree with your view that not enough parents do it 'right'. My experience leads me to believe the opposite. As Sharon pointed out, though, it's the one misbehaving child out of one hundred that we remember.

 

Dave, I think we really do believe much of the same things, although with different perspectives. Your last statement, though, I can say we definitely agree on 100%! (although as I'm sure you know by now, if I don't agree, I WILL exercise my right to reply!! :p )

[Kerry's Girls]

We have been traveling with our two boys since they were 6 months and 3 years of age.

 

We did the age appropriate things, that did not include cruising until they reached 5 and 8 and we felt like they were ready to try cruising

 

They are now 16 and 19.

 

When your children were toddlers, cruising was much different. The cruise lines weren't focusing on families. Now there are activities on RCCL for children as young as six months and even Princess provides baby food. So what you may have thought was age appropriate then is not as applicable now, since the cruise lines are jumping over themselves to be family friendly.

 

I bet when you took 5 and 8 year olds on cruises eleven years ago, lots of people thought they were too young (because cruises weren't catering to children as much as they are now) - but you knew better.

 

And clearly all that travel helped create a couple spectacular kids. A sincere congratulations on the success of both of your children! That is very exciting!

 

Best wishes,

Mia

[mom23guys]

I don't know about others but I originally decided to check out this board because I thought it meant cruising with extended families not just cruising with children. I have cruised with my family but sadly no children accompanied us. Maybe the name could be changed to say "Cruising with Children" This is in response to a comment made earlier about why someone would come to the "Family" board if they weren't cruising with children.

[NoelsCat]

A week without my son would be like a prison sentence rather than a vacation. I couldn't even imagine.

[tinlizzy]

A week without my son would be like a prison sentence rather than a vacation. I couldn't even imagine.

 

LOL. I just went on my first vacation (a cruise) without my only child who is 16 and I felt like an addict going thru withdrawal. I thought I would enjoy the adult time but I was too miserable to fully enjoy anything.

 

Children don't hold a candle to the drunken males on board the ships. Vomit in the hallway- not from a child. Piss all over the male bathrooms- not from a child. Belching every 2 minutes- don't recall that sound (or smell) from a child. Some children behave annoyingly but everything I've seen that was downright disgusting has been adult behavior.

 

The cleanest, most relaxing cruises I have been on were Disney.

[larronry]

I don't know about others but I originally decided to check out this board because I thought it meant cruising with extended families not just cruising with children. I have cruised with my family but sadly no children accompanied us. Maybe the name could be changed to say "Cruising with Children" This is in response to a comment made earlier about why someone would come to the "Family" board if they weren't cruising with children.

I guess one could take it that way, but if one were to say google family vacations everything would focus on family vacations with kids. Also, when you click on the link for this forum it's pretty clear by all the thread titles that it's about cruising with kids. I'm not saying that family vacations can't include extended family and I think that's great it just usually doesn't require the same kind of focused research and support that traveling with kids require. Although I believe it traveling with extended family has been discussed on this forum.

 

By the way here are the first two links in the google search- search term-family vacations (after the sponsored links):

alltravelingkidsfamilyvacations.com

travelwithkids.about.com

[sysguy]

"After dropping off our things, we explored the ship and it's different bars. It was fun to people watch while licking soft serve ice cream cones.

Room was ready by 1:30 pm. Speaking of people...wow! What a variety of people. Italians, Canadians, Latin Americans, Swedes, Germans, Americans and Rednecks. You name it, they were onboard! Older adults, young adults, middle age adults and kids. Yes, lots of kids. We left our three kids at home so that they could go to school. Cruising in October I didn't expect as many children as were on the ship. Call it what you want, a cruise is a VACATION it is not a substitute for school. Whatever, I was just glad that I wasn't the one choosing to schlep a stroller, car seat, diapers, water wings, baby bottles, teddy bears and twelve pieces of luggage. Hope all those folks enjoyed their "educational experience". :rolleyes: "

 

It's a recent review and I'm having to bite my tongue so I'm not rude to this poster. I'd like to read the review of a ship we're going to be on in a month not the OP's opinion of me since we've decided to bring our children!:mad:

Cindra

[larronry]

OK if the child is in a stroller, car seat (although this could be debatable), diaper using water wings or a baby bottle I don't really think they are missing school. Day care maybe and if they are like me they may have put their child in an educationally based day care, but it's still not school.

 

And I'm not giving my opinion on whether it's ok to miss school or not because until my child get's to that point I don't think I have a right to voice my opinion. My parents didn't do it, but they didn't have to. (Well we left 1 day early for winter break in first grade and my mom felt horrible.) The field trips my school was able to provide me I know my son's school can't provide him and I may consider pulling him out of school to do it because I don't necessarily want to do it in the heat of the summer or in high tourist season so I just can't say whether it is right or wrong (I grew up in the suburbs of D.C so it would be to go to Wash, VA and see various historical sites). Besides if my son is in public school I know I can teach my son more in a week on a cruise then the school can teach him in a semester. Sorry just the sad state of our local educational system. I'm hoping that will change, but I'm also not planning to put him in public school unless it does.

 

And I'm not saying that all the teachers are bad just the restrictions put on them are.

 

And here I am a parent and I won't make a judgment.

[Onessa]

"Speaking of people...wow! What a variety of people. Italians, Canadians, Latin Americans, Swedes, Germans, Americans and Rednecks. You name it, they were onboard! Older adults, young adults, middle age adults and kids. Yes, lots of kids. We left our three kids at home so that they could

go to school

. Cruising in October I didn't expect as many children as were on the ship. Call it what you want, a cruise is a VACATION it is not a substitute for school. Whatever, I was just glad that I wasn't the one choosing to schlep a stroller, car seat, diapers, water wings, baby bottles, teddy bears and twelve pieces of luggage. Hope all those folks enjoyed their "educational experience". :rolleyes: "

 

 

Since there was such a "variety" of people, I felt the reviewer's comments rather narrow-minded and judgemental -- Different countries have different holiday schedules for their schools. Different parts of the US have different schedules.

 

We just took an extended trip to the Twinkie Cities, because DD had a five day weekend at school -- Monday & Tues was regular school, and Wed/Thus/Friday, they had off. Lots of folks took advantange of the schedule to take a family trip.

 

Lots of homeschoolers, year-round schools, and other alternative schools out there -- so every kid you see is not "skipping school". Lots of parents who are not comfortable with the thought of leaving their kids hom while they vacation -- those parents might brand the reviewer as someone who doesn't care about their kids and just pawns them off on relatives or pays someone to take over what should be their responsibility.

 

Point -- There are lots of different situations in this world. It is the people who jump to conclusions like the reviewer who make threads like this trive.

[larronry]

You Know Onessa you make a very good point. If you homeschool that can be done anywhere. And who knows when the breaks are in year round schools are? I sure don't. And Schools in other parts in the world certainly have breaks at different times.

 

The only conclusion was I'm cruising in October because school is in session and I won't be around any kids. Well Boo Hoo for you.

 

Just curious sysguy how long was that cruise s/he was reviewing?

[sysguy]

It was a 7 day on a Carnival ship!! I'm glad to hear other people agree with how I was feeling when I first read the post. We are Canadian and do indeed have both different schedules and different levels of absentee acceptability.

As with many posters here we make our trips opportunities to learn things they may not learn in school. Our kids keep journals, our daughter does a video presentation, we research each port before we go, DD is learning some Spanish at school and is excited at the prospect of using it, and we try to find a little something interesting that represents where we were for them to take to their teacher.

 

We always discuss the trip with the kids teachers and get them homework for the time away, as well, they know they will be doing a presentation on the trip when they get back to school so they treat it as a school project.

 

We love spending time with our kidlets as we know all too soon they will not want to spend time with us and our vacations truly are "family time" that build wonderful memories and foster a closeness that sometimes gets pushed to the back burner with the hectic-ness of life at home.

 

Cindra:)

[LHP]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Sharon... when I said I didn't think the comment was accurate, I was referring to the comment about people making posts for selfish reasons.

 

LHP, I disagree with your view that not enough parents do it 'right'. My experience leads me to believe the opposite. As Sharon pointed out, though, it's the one misbehaving child out of one hundred that we remember.

 

Dave, I think we really do believe much of the same things, although with different perspectives. Your last statement, though, I can say we definitely agree on 100%! (although as I'm sure you know by now, if I don't agree, I WILL exercise my right to reply!! :p )

 

 

Really?? That is why they have entire tv shows that bring "professional" nannies to the US to correct all the mistakes???

 

Sadly it is not 1%...more like 10% and when you are dealing with 1,000 children on a cruise (which is not uncommon on a ship like the Glory) that isn't 1 child...it is 100 children.

 

When you have cruised as much as we have, sadly you see way to much. And unfortunately, when that one child is a 3 year old banging the silverware on the dinner plate for 30 minutes straight, while you are trying to have a nice formal dinner...it is one to many.

[PoopDeckPappy]

Please excuse me while I vent... I am so sick of reading all these posts about how this child had a DVD (w/headphones) at the table, or that one touched something on the buffet, a baby that cried... I am sick of reviews that rate how much of a good time they had, based on how many children were or were not on a ship! What is wrong with these people? Have they never had children? Have they forgotten? Do children not have the right to behave like children? WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! Babies cry. Six year olds have tantrums. They get hungry and sleepy and grumpy. We as parents have the responsibility to make sure that they are not to disruptive or ruin anyone else's fun, BUT some of these people will complain just for the simple fact that; they are children

For the most part I agree with you. To me a crying child is no different than someone talking. It doesn't bother me; if anything I feel bad for the kid. I must say though, touching food at the buffet is not acceptable for anyone. If a person doesn't know not to do this then they shouldn't be helping themselves to the buffet. DW told a kid once who was picking up pizza & putting it back that he touched it so it was his to take. Don't know if I would've done that but at least no one had to eat pizza that his booger-crusted fingers had touched:D

[Chigirlcruzin]

I just got off the Valor. I sailed with my 60-something parents, and my 29 year old sister and her 28 year old husband. They had cabins next to each other on the main deck. There was a family with 2 children in the 12-14 age group and another 2 about 3-6. The older children were tasked with watching the younger children while the parents went out for the evening. The kids were slamming doors, running up and down the halls yelling, and randomly knocking on doors. This was done well after midnight. My sister is 12 weeks pregnant and still isn't feeling the greatest, so this was very disruptive to her (it was well after midnight on a regular basis).

 

I'm 30, and I was on the Lido deck. EVERY time I was in my room, the child next to me (about 3) was screaming. EVERY time I tried to nap, get ready for dinner, whatever, this child was screaming. It was maddening.

 

There were TONS of children on board this cruise. Most were awesome. Unfortunately, we were stuck near some disruptive children.

 

It's not that I hate kids - I hate that they are allowed to disrupt others' vacations. I get that kids are going to cry, but these parents allowed this child to SCREAM continuously. I get that kids are going to run around and have some fun, but after midnight? Not cool.

[CanadianTwosome]

"Whatever, I was just glad that I wasn't the one choosing to schlep a stroller, car seat, diapers, water wings, baby bottles, teddy bears and twelve pieces of luggage. Hope all those folks enjoyed their "educational experience". :rolleyes: "

 

This is the part that got me... clearly this reviewer's parenting experience and mine are completely different. The first time I travelled with my daughter she was three months old and I had the stroller, toys, diaper bag, and all the rest of the necessities, and never once did I feel like I was 'schlepping' anything. Having my child with me to enjoy and experience whatever it is we're doing as a family is worth any extra effort I have to put into packing or planning. Anyone who describes being with their child in such a negative tone definitely feels a LOT differently about spending time with their child than I do!