No Refund of deposit re Non Smoking

[Seabis]

I have just come off the phone to P & O regarding the new no smoking policy.

We have booked a Panama Canal cruise over the Christmas period. I fully understand the restrictions on smoking in any food area's or in theatre or show lounges, but I do feel that there should be at least one bar or an area in a bar where smokers can sit in relative comfort and enjoy a drink we certainly don't pay any less for the cruise. Because we have booked a Balcony stateroom P&O say that if we cancel they will not be able to refund our deposit as I still have somewhere to smoke. Having just come back from a 16 night Princess Baltic\ Med cruise where smoking was allowed in the Royal bar we found that it was always the busiest bar and the extraction system seemed to work to the satisfaction of all. I have been told that I have to write to customer relations to see if they can refund any of my deposit if I cancel. My biggest complaint is that before we booked we made our travel agent phone P7O regarding their smoking policy and was assured that smoking was allowed in the stateroom and in selected areas around the ship. I would like to know if anyone else has had a different response re cancellation

[Flat booby]

I have just come off the phone to P & O regarding the new no smoking policy.

We have booked a Panama Canal cruise over the Christmas period. I fully understand the restrictions on smoking in any food area's or in theatre or show lounges, but I do feel that there should be at least one bar or an area in a bar where smokers can sit in relative comfort and enjoy a drink we certainly don't pay any less for the cruise. Because we have booked a Balcony stateroom P&O say that if we cancel they will not be able to refund our deposit as I still have somewhere to smoke. Having just come back from a 16 night Princess Baltic\ Med cruise where smoking was allowed in the Royal bar we found that it was always the busiest bar and the extraction system seemed to work to the satisfaction of all. I have been told that I have to write to customer relations to see if they can refund any of my deposit if I cancel. My biggest complaint is that before we booked we made our travel agent phone P7O regarding their smoking policy and was assured that smoking was allowed in the stateroom and in selected areas around the ship. I would like to know if anyone else has had a different response re cancellation

Why sould P and O allow smoking in Ventura Pubs when it is not allowed in the Home Pubs, if you want to go for a smoke while having a drink in a pub you go outside for it so its the same with Ventura. Or take your drink outside and smoke there.it will be warm then. I would hate to sleep in a stateroom that has had a smoker in it as stale smells linger for ages. You will have a balcony so smoke out on the balcony instead. Or cancel your Cruise and go on another holiday on a Princess Cruise. Just stop moaning.

[lvtotrvl1]

Why sould P and O allow smoking in Ventura Pubs when it is not allowed in the Home Pubs, if you want to go for a smoke while having a drink in a pub you go outside for it so its the same with Ventura. Or take your drink outside and smoke there.it will be warm then. I would hate to sleep in a stateroom that has had a smoker in it as stale smells linger for ages. You will have a balcony so smoke out on the balcony instead. Or cancel your Cruise and go on another holiday on a Princess Cruise. Just stop moaning.

 

If I read the OP's post correctly, he is trying to cancel and they are saying he is in penalty....I don't believe he was asking for opinions on the smoking rules.

[jack the lad]

Why sould P and O allow smoking in Ventura Pubs when it is not allowed in the Home Pubs, if you want to go for a smoke while having a drink in a pub you go outside for it so its the same with Ventura. Or take your drink outside and smoke there.it will be warm then. I would hate to sleep in a stateroom that has had a smoker in it as stale smells linger for ages. You will have a balcony so smoke out on the balcony instead. Or cancel your Cruise and go on another holiday on a Princess Cruise. Just stop moaning.

 

P&O uk is not british anymore it is owned by carnival cruises ,and all there ships are registered outside of the u.k this way they can avoid u.k smoking laws, u.k minimum wage etc etc, hence the term flag of convience.

[Elaine0138]

Seabis...sorry to hear that P&O will not refund your deposit,it is wrong of them to change policies when people have already booked.

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Refunds of deposits at a passengers request should only be done for those who cancel due to ill-health, death or loss of a job, and would be covered by insurance.

 

Smoking is not essental to life.

 

Smokers will still be able to light-up in designated outdoor areas + private balconies.

 

With the exception of cabins*, P&O's new rules are no different from UK & Ireland and meets the experience of P&O's clientele shoreside in all enclosed public spaces.

 

The P&O ruling on cabins has been long over-due under H&S grounds (risk of fire) for years and I'm surprised after the Star Princess (?) fire that smoking will still be permitted on private balconies.

 

*(some hotels permit smoking in all or some of their bedrooms)

[Pontius Navigator]

That P&O is not UK registered is not the point. Bermuda has similar smoking legislation. Also, regardless of port of registry, many countries require vessels in their ports and territorial waters to abide by the national legislation. In the US this can vary from State to State with, I believe, Florida and California being strictest.

 

I agree about the deposit issue when they change the rules after the deposit was taken.

 

I disagree about smoking bars being adequately ventilated. Last summer we were on the Constellation and much of the ship was a no-go area. Their rule was port-smoke, starboard non-smoke. At one point we had to have a steward ask people to cease smoking or move to the port side.

 

We also found that we could smell smoke even on the open decks. And disgustingly the ships crew failed to empty ash trays on a daily basis. We often saw cups, glasses and ash trays with butt ends for 3-4 days. Uck!

[cruiseanywhere2]

The Terms and Conditions on all holidays stipulate when deposits are refundable and this would involve:

1. A substantial change to your holiday, a different ship or different dates.

2. A Foreign Offie warning not to travel to a particular country.

I am unable to see where the change in a smoking policy would fit into these terms.

 

I read somewhere that there is a provision under the Act to amend smoking policies under maritime law.

[foxyG]

Well, here we go again! Mention the forbidden word begining with "S" and irrespective of what your question or query is, the members of the "Nicotine Inqusition" come riding into town, all guns blazing :D

 

I had a similar problem with Celebrity earlier this year when they changed their policy. I had a long and protracted correspondence with them and they weren't prepared to refund my deposit. I finally took legal advice and was advised that I had a fairly strong case under UK contract law. I wrote to Celebrity to let them know that I intended to file a claim against them. Surprise, surprise.... 7 days later I received a full refund.

 

Seabis.....I don't want to go into all the details on this forum as it will most likely attract inappropriate comments from certain factions, but if you would like to know the relevant "legal" bit, let me know and I will happily let you have the info.

[cruisebore]

Seabis

It is not a problem, as it has been reported on the P&O board, all you need to do is email reservations@pocruises.com quote cruise no and booking ref. and ask for confirmation of deposit refund due to smoking restrictions. Email response to your TA, and the cash should be back in your bank within a week.

Book on a cruise line which allows smoking in designated inside areas, AND HOPEFULLY you will not encounter the 'anti smoking zealot'. Presumably they will all be sailing P&O to ensure they do not encounter smokers.

Regards

 

Cb

 

p.s.

If you still have a problem come back, I can let you have some supporting docs.

[tonyk41]

:)

Well, here we go again! Mention the forbidden word begining with "S" and irrespective of what your question or query is, the members of the "Nicotine Inqusition" come riding into town, all guns blazing :D

 

I had a similar problem with Celebrity earlier this year when they changed their policy. I had a long and protracted correspondence with them and they weren't prepared to refund my deposit. I finally took legal advice and was advised that I had a fairly strong case under UK contract law. I wrote to Celebrity to let them know that I intended to file a claim against them. Surprise, surprise.... 7 days later I received a full refund.

 

Seabis.....I don't want to go into all the details on this forum as it will most likely attract inappropriate comments from certain factions, but if you would like to know the relevant "legal" bit, let me know and I will happily let you have the info.

 

Hi foxyG

Can you let me know who you contacted at Celebrity as I had booked a cruise before they altered there smoking policy and my wife, who smokes was adamant she would not cruise with them. I phoned and was told no return of deposit.

It's not the money but the principle.

 

Tonyk41

[Gerrym]

I cannot believe that this has prompted the anti-smokers to come out of their shell, the original post was not even asking for a debate on the subject!

 

Anyway, Seabis, I can tell you that I cancelled Ventura next February becasue I could not smoke in my cabin as described when I booked. I told P&O I wanted to cancel and got a full refund for my party of 6.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Gerry

[Gerrym]

Refunds of deposits at a passengers request should only be done for those who cancel due to ill-health, death or loss of a job, and would be covered by insurance.

 

Smoking is not essental to life.

 

Smokers will still be able to light-up in designated outdoor areas + private balconies.

 

With the exception of cabins*, P&O's new rules are no different from UK & Ireland and meets the experience of P&O's clientele shoreside in all enclosed public spaces.

 

The P&O ruling on cabins has been long over-due under H&S grounds (risk of fire) for years and I'm surprised after the Star Princess (?) fire that smoking will still be permitted on private balconies.

 

*(some hotels permit smoking in all or some of their bedrooms)

 

 

Derek, what on earth has that got to do with the OP question? Did you read the original quation or was it just an opportunity to roll out one of your standard replies?

 

I happen to agree with what you have said but your answer does not match the question.

[foxyG]

:)

 

Hi foxyG

Can you let me know who you contacted at Celebrity as I had booked a cruise before they altered there smoking policy and my wife, who smokes was adamant she would not cruise with them. I phoned and was told no return of deposit.

It's not the money but the principle.

 

Tonyk41

 

Tony,

 

We conducted most of our correspondence via our TA (Thomas Cook). I believe it went up as far as the Celebrity UK Customer Sevices Manager. The main issue was that I contested that it was a "material change to the original terms of the contract" and that the ban would "seriously detract from my enjoyment of the cruise". My solicitor dug out a piece of case law (can't remember the parties names) where a customer had specifically booked a smoking room at a UK hotel chain, on arrival the client was told that there were no "smoking rooms" left. He therefore said he would cancel the booking and move to the hotel across the road which had smoking rooms. The original chain charged his CC for the booking and refused a refund.

 

Bottom line was that a court ruled that the hotel had breached the terms of the original contract and therefore ordered a refund plus costs. Many would argue that this wasn't a "substantial change" to the contract but it appears that UK law still works on the basis of "offer & acceptance" ie. if something is offered (goods or service or facility) and subsequently withdrawn or materially altered, it's a breach of contract.

 

I suspect that my threat of issuing a claim against them did the trick irrespective of the legal issues. Most large companies aren't prepared to go to court and get the attendant bad publicity for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds.

 

Hope this has been of help.

[tonyk41]

Foxy

Thanks very much, will now chase them for my £200 back.

regards

Tonyk

[banjoman 1]

Foxy

Thanks very much, will now chase them for my £200 back.

regards

Tonyk

Hi tonyK41.I really do hope that you get your money back.If you can spare the time please enter the Thomson website.You will find I had a similar situation to you.After posting a polite thread the anti smoking lobby appeared in force.The P&O site appears to be better monitored to ensure this does not happen.Anyway,I have found a lot of very useful information contained in replies to his thread and My wife and I thank you for that.

Regards

Banjoman1

[MattOsprey]

I hate smoking as do a lot of people.

However if I were a smoker, I think I would find this a good enough reason to get a refund.

Smoking is an addiction that for years has been acceptable, and therefore people can't all be expected to just stop. Although I agree with the no smoking rule inside, I think that this is a major change to terms and conditions of people who have an addiction, that as far as they were aware wouldn't be a problem.

I hope all of you who want refunds, do get them as I feel you are entitled.

Matt

[Cinderella50]

I rang our travel agent to see if we would get our deposit back if we cancelled our trip on Ventura in October. They rang P&O and were told we could have our deposits back or a transfer to another ship. Oriana, Arcadia and Aurora still allow smoking in cabins but only until 2009 (presumably when the world cruise is over!!) Hope you get your money back, we have decided to continue with our booking as we have a balcony cabin, also it's a bit late in the day to re-book and get a good deal!

[The Monocled Mutineer]

To those who questioned why I had placed my reply re the subject "refund of deposits due to smoking restrictions".

 

I have reviewed my reply and have the view that it is entirely within the context of the thread title. Contributors should not be surprised when those who wish to see smoking constrained, contribute to the thread.

 

The thread is not only open for smokers or non-smokers who tolerate anti-social habits.

[lvtotrvl1]

To those who questioned why I had placed my reply re the subject "refund of deposits due to smoking restrictions".

 

I have reviewed my reply and have the view that it is entirely within the context of the thread title. Contributors should not be surprised when those who wish to see smoking constrained, contribute to the thread.

 

The thread is not only open for smokers or non-smokers who tolerate anti-social habits.

 

But the OP wasn't asking for an opinion. And personally, alot of others don't care.

[The Monocled Mutineer]

lvtotrvl1:

 

Contributors to forums like this should be able to reply as they see fit wthout having to be upbraided and in some cases (not on this thread so far) abused.

 

A more timid contributor makng a minority or unorthodox viewpoint could construe such upbraiding as a form of bullying.

[Gerrym]

I agree Derek, but at least answer the qusetion posed rather than going off on some loosely related tangent. The OP was not asking for your opinion on whether you agree with smoking or not or even if you think he should be allowed to get his money back.

 

He was simply asking if anyone had experience of having their money refunded.

 

Normally you are very helpful. You have not reached your high standards this time.

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

Gerry

[The Monocled Mutineer]

GerryM:

 

It is entirely a matter for:

 

a). The respondee, to post what he or she sees fit to post.

 

b). It is entirely up the originator of the thread and anyone interested in any answer to questions or viewpoints requested to "take or leave" what other respondees have to say.

[cruisebore]

To those who questioned why I had placed my reply re the subject "refund of deposits due to smoking restrictions".

 

I have reviewed my reply and have the view that it is entirely within the context of the thread title. Contributors should not be surprised when those who wish to see smoking constrained, contribute to the thread.

 

The thread is not only open for smokers or non-smokers who tolerate anti-social habits.

 

I have reviewed you reply and hold the view that it did not in anyway contribute to the discussion, and therefore was posted purely as a SPOILER and to cause trouble, knowing what a contentious subject this is.

Shame on you!

[Gerrym]

I have reviewed you reply and hold the view that it did not in anyway contribute to the discussion, and therefore was posted purely as a SPOILER and to cause trouble, knowing what a contentious subject this is.

Shame on you!

 

 

'fraid I have to agree with you Cruisebore.