Law to change railing height

[nolaAlive]

If they LOWER the railing height to 24", would the gene pool see a marked improvement?

 

Dan

 

If they raised the lowest rail to 52 inches, it should help remove some of the feral children from the gene pool, so I'm getting a yes.

[kelz66]

If the raise the railing height...then I won't be able to use it to rest my foot while I use my nail clippers.

 

:eek::p:rolleyes:

[dan40]

dan40, I am not accusing cruise lines of not reporting "THOUSANDS OF CRIME". I haven't, I don't think, even hinted that this might be the case. What I have said is that we simply don't know because the cruise lines are not required to report every incident to US authorities. They may well report all incidents, I don't know and you don't know. If the fact that I do not trust a corporation to act in a manner that it might see as hurtful to its self is "anti-cruise" then so be it. I'm not, but go ahead and throw around baseless accusations.

 

I will willingly admit to a bias. I'm biased in favor of myself. I want to feel safer on my cruises. I'm also a realist and I know that it is unreasonable to expect cruise lines to act in my best interest if they feel that doing so is counter to what they perceive as their best interests, namely bigger profits.

 

Good example is peepholes on cabin doors. Why are they not installed on every ship? When was the last time you stayed in a hotel that did not have peepholes on every guest room door?

 

A 15 second search:

 

 

"The national rate of violent crimes is about 465.5 per 100,000 inhabitants, while the FBI reports an average of only 50 crimes a year against U.S. citizens on cruises. According to the Bureau of Justice, 1 in every 1,000 people is raped or sexually assaulted on land each year; on cruise ships, there is only one alleged incident of sexual assault for every 100,000 passengers.

 

I wonder where the FBI and the B. of Justice get their non-reported reports?

 

The idea that cruise lines do not have to report crimes is a myth.

Admiralty Law requires that they report crimes to the local authorities at the nest port of call, and American Law requires they report crimes against US Citizens to the local authorities at the next port of call AND the FBI, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

 

I have 50 cruises. Most with large groups of family and friends. So maybe over 500 passenger cruise trips. NOT an incident

Also have a few cruises with LARGE groups of Cruise Critic members. No rapes, no robberies. We did have one of the CC group pass away on one cruise. It was a Heart Attack and one of the former CC hosts said the cruise line did all they could for her friend.

 

On land, not associated with cruising in any way, I have been robbed AT GUNPOINT TWICE. So I know way more than I would like to know about violent crime.

 

In an earlier post I gave you 50 underreported sexual assaults for every one reported and it is a tiny part of one percentage point.

Even if they covered up 99 out of 100, it still wouldn't move a meter.

 

Congress HAS much higher priorities to deal with!

 

Dan

[Kurbanfan]

the idea that cruise lines do not have to report crimes is a myth.

 

roflmao!!! I'm sure they are suppose to........LMAO!!!

[dan40]

roflmao!!! I'm sure they are suppose to........LMAO!!!

 

If the arguement was, Do they try to minimize reports? I wouldn't argue, of course they do try. But with the media salivating over all bad cruise ship news, Complete Internet access by both pax and crew. And videos of everything that EVER passed by a viewfinder. HOW could much go un-reported?

 

Does anyone have a violent crime reported by the media, or a pax, that was not reported by the cruiseline? ONE? TEN? A THOUSAND? Still wouldn't be a Congressional Hearing number. Media attention to the subject and RE-ELECTION are the only reasons Congress would look at this situation.

 

Dan

[VABeach]

Until I hear of a Child going over, I will never believe that the rails are too low.

 

I am so tired of accomodating the idiots. Maybe we should put hand rails on the Grand Canyon and Niagra Falls. Or just make everyone wear their life vests for the ENTIRE cruise, not just the Muster Drill. :cool:

[Thirsty Cruiser]

I want to be 'safe'.

 

I want a big ole stainless steel cage

going from the top of the existing rail height up up up and riiiiight over the deck

coming down the other side of the ship until it meets the top of the railing on the other side! Ha! ;)

 

That way, Bozo Da Clown can climb the cage as far as he wants, but simply can't get out.

Wouldn't that look pretty?

Kinda like a circus lion cage afloat?

 

 

Mind you, he might make it just halfway(over the pool)

run out of Ooomph, drop into the pool

and drown that way, poor guy. Awwww...:(

 

_________________

Oh dear. :eek:

Now we have to screen the pool with soft cushy stuff,

so Bozo won't drown in the ship's pool.

And so on and so on.

 

Until finally we're strapped in our bunks for the duration of the cruise

and only taken up on deck once every 12 hrs. for air

clapped in irons -manacles and handcuffs

under strict security supervision.

 

Sound extreme? Give it another fifty years!

 

You got me, your post looked like a poem so I was trying to rhyme the words.:o

 

I say leave 'em low. It's the only way Darwin can work his magic and chlorinate the gene pool.;)

 

roflmao!!! I'm sure they are suppose to........LMAO!!!

Hey kurby, I just flew over your nape of the woods.

[VABeach]

Ron White said it best: "You can't fix stupid."

[Wennfred]

I wonder if Washington is going to flip the bill on this one.

 

The cruise industry creates tons of job and it also helps the economy in those cruise port cities. Look at the ton of money people spend at those cruise port locations. Taxi and Airline services, Hotel service and the Food services as well.

 

All ships meet federal safety guidelines and I'm sure the rails regulations were set way back. This is just another senseless bill coming out of someones rear.

 

 

Fred

[Kurbanfan]

I hope the posters are capable of reading the bill and realize that railing height is only a small piece.

What if the thread were titled "Law to require rape kits on ships" instead? Or any part other than railing height? Maintaining a logbook of crimes? Preserving evidence of crimes? Attaching video recorders to the cameras they already have?

 

Lord help keep us from the whining if they were to limit serving sizes of bacon!

 

Boy did you call that one......:D Not surprising though:p Not capable........

 

 

Hey kurby, I just flew over your nape of the woods.

 

Hey I see my house lol! Hope you had a great time!!!

[astropilot]

Agreed.

 

Me too!!!!!! You can't regulate stupidity!!!

[Cruise Cat]

It would have been cheaper to fix it years ago, and cheaper still to have never borrowed. No use whining about it now.

 

Yep it would have - in the late 70s and early 90s when the faulty legislation was enacted:rolleyes:

[JoanK]

...my opinion is the whole thing started back when we started giving every kid a trophy just for showing up and did away with winners and losers for fear of hurting self-esteem...:rolleyes:

 

..fully agree 100%... every kid gets rewarded with medals and stickers even for not trying.

No wonder kide grow to adulthood without knowing the value if hard work.

 

...like AIG...getting rewarded for screwing up.

 

JoanK

[nolaAlive]

We really should do away with Homeland Security, CDC, polio and other vaccines, armed forces, police, firemen, etc. Who the hell needs the Interstates or bridges or railroads? SPCA and other humane agencies? Not a dime for dumb animals - they don't vote - get real and dump them. Schools and public education - who needs them?

 

Back to basics, I say. Survival of the fittest.

[BullDogChief]

We really should do away with Homeland Security, CDC, polio and other vaccines, armed forces, police, firemen, etc. Who the hell needs the Interstates or bridges or railroads? SPCA and other humane agencies? Not a dime for dumb animals - they don't vote - get real and dump them. Schools and public education - who needs them?

 

Back to basics, I say. Survival of the fittest.

 

Not sure what to do here...laugh or shake my head?? :confused:

[WishIwasOutThereNOW]

The courts could rule that foreign flagged ships need to comply or obtain waivers on a ship by ship basis.

 

Kind of like cruise ships that do business in the United States are required to be sort of ADA compliant.

 

or a payoff on a senator by senator basis. the country is broke and this is all these idiots can come up with? God help us all.

[Wolfie48]

Why do polititions continue to think that they can regulate stupidity?

 

Because most of them majored in stupidity in college :p

[Wolfie48]

roflmao!!! I'm sure they are suppose to........LMAO!!!

 

Even if the cruise lines didn't wouldn't the victim? And if they don't then it must not be that big a deal!

[dan40]

We really should do away with Homeland Security,

IDENTIFIABLE NEED.

CDC,

IDENTIFIABLE NEED.

polio and other vaccines,

IDENTIFIABLE NEED.

armed forces, police, firemen, etc.

IDENTIFIABLE NEED.

Who the hell needs the Interstates or bridges or railroads?

IDENTIFIABLE NEED.

SPCA and other humane agencies? Not a dime for dumb animals - they don't vote - get real and dump them.

SOME QUESTION HERE.

Schools and public education - who needs them?

LARGE QUESTIONS HERE, since we spend within pocket change of the 2 other largest education spenders. Should we be demanding MORE RESULTS for our money.

 

Back to basics, I say. Survival of the fittest.

 

Survival of the fittest? That is not back to the basics, that is a constant that will never change.

A forest and a jungle are the same, just in different locations. Cutting down every tree in the jungle and forests does not repeal the law of the jungle. Just ruins the shade.

 

Adding more laws to the required SAFETY on cruise shipS? An already IDENTIFIABLE LACK OF NEED!.

 

If we listed the 500 top priorities for Congress, do YOU actually believe cruise ship safety should be ANYWHERE on that list?

Where?

 

Dan

 

 

 

[C cruzer]

The rail height is foolish, if a person falls overboard, they want to, or their drunk. With all the toddlers sailing, have you ever heard of a baby falling off? But as far as reporting, I think rape kits and all emergency supplies should be on a ship. I am an RN and I know they have some great equip on board. So why not the next step? And as far as reporting crimes, my God they clean the rooms before US investigators can look at them. I love to cruise and I think it is much safer than land based trips, but lets get up to speed.

PS...You have to inform your friends, that it may seem casual, but all land rules apply...Dont leave your drink unattended, dont go to someone elses cabin ect...

Safe Travels:)

[nolaAlive]

Survival of the fittest? That is not back to the basics, that is a constant that will never change.

A forest and a jungle are the same, just in different locations. Cutting down every tree in the jungle and forests does not repeal the law of the jungle. Just ruins the shade.

 

Adding more laws to the required SAFETY on cruise shipS? An already IDENTIFIABLE LACK OF NEED!.

 

If we listed the 500 top priorities for Congress, do YOU actually believe cruise ship safety should be ANYWHERE on that list?

Where?

 

Dan

 

Identifiable needs depend on who you ask. I pay for many services I do not use, need, or want.

 

Yes, cruise ship safety should be near the top. Congressional gridlock would be ideal, but failing that, debating over relatively benign topics is the next best choice.

[PaulMedik]

Could you explain a little better what you mean. (I saw the words, there's no need to repeat them, especially "fluff" :) )

 

As a layman regarding medical issues, and specifically medical and law enforcement issues surrounding rape, I don't know why it's bad to require ships to have a "rape kit" on board, and a doctor capable of using it correctly. I do think it's fluff (or pork or whatever) to specify that the doctor must have a US license - there should just be a standard that they have to meet, regardless of where they are licensed to practice.

 

How are the medical requirements stupid?

How would they hinder prosecution of sea-based crimes?

What should be done instead? (you should write this down, and send it to your own senators/congresspersons)

 

In other words, how about joining a debate about the merits of the bill, or better alternatives, rather than hopping on the "senators are idiots" bandwagon?

 

- Steve

 

 

Steve,

 

I can't join in a debate on the merits of a bill that I feel doesn't have any merits to speak of. In my opinion, the bill is a play for attention more than a tool for protection of consumers or citizens.

 

Infirmaries likely already do carry rape kits. Other than specific labeling of containers and a couple of specialized combs, there's not much to them. The procedure for gathering the evidence and properly labeling and preserving the evidence is the difficult part and is the aspect that would likely cause issues with prosecution for many reasons. Chain of custody of the evidence is one problem. The fact that once the evidence is collected, there can be no more physical evidence gathered or presented from the victim is another.

 

Gaining the trust of the victim to consent to a rape exam is a huge hurdle that likely would be the most difficult aspect of the entire ordeal. You can't begin to understand how difficult a rape exam is for a victim without having seen one first hand. I realize TV and movies try and portray the mental issues surrounding such ordeals, but the reality is even more brutal.

 

From a practical standpoint, the actual rape exam is not a quick look or a few minutes; there's really no time limit for how long they take especially for providers that don't do them on a regular basis. During the exam at least two medical providers will be involved for the entire time and not free to come and go or take care of any other situations. If one provider leaves for any reason, the evidence is then tainted from a prosecution standpoint.

 

The soup recipe for medicinal treatment post rape that is mentioned in the bill assumes a specific type of assault on a specific type of victim. If the recipe were followed simply because it was law, harm would without a doubt come to the victim. If it becomes a law then it must be followed or the provider is in violation. Would you want your provider to have to give you specific medication for a specific complaint even though it may harm you? Humans are not built to tolerate the same chemicals and how one human or one group of humans reacts is not rule for how other humans will react.

 

I do agree that rapes, assaults, thefts, and crimes of any violent nature should be required reporting for ships entering US territories. Perhaps that is the ultimate goal of the bill instead of the current version? As for specific guidelines for handling rape cases, if they must collect evidence, then they need to arrange for debarkation in the next port of call to a facility with specific expertise and experience in sexual assault forensics. Perhaps they could collect clothing worn at the time of the incident and quarantine the cabin, but completing an actual physical exam for forensic purposes would be problematic. The victim would also need to be sequestered to prevent further contamination of the evidence.

 

The mere fact that the ship's medical crew act as agents for the cruise line also compounds the issue of evidence they do collect. Prosecutors who would be making the call to proceed in such cases would have to know they could trust the methods of the crew as well as their motives.

 

My opinion of the bill has nothing to do with my opinion of John Kerry. In fact, I have never offered an opinion of him here or anywhere that I can recall. ;)

[L2J]

yup! Right on! And doubling that national debt in 60 days is sure a good way to fix it!!!

 

lmao...

[Kurbanfan]

Even if the cruise lines didn't wouldn't the victim? And if they don't then it must not be that big a deal!

 

There have been reports......even here on CC:p

[LemurCat]

It occurred to me that the rail height has less to do with people falling overboard and more to do with someone or someones trying to toss a body - live or dead - overboard. The nature of the bill points more toward preserving evidence of a crime that has been committed as opposed to trying to keep jumpers from taking that leap (as others have said, they'll do it anyway) or drunks from climbing over the rails (ditto). Anyway, I would wonder as to it's enforcability but it seems so much like a dumb show.