Fantasy Port Engine Troubles - No CC

Another example of how people confuse thoughts and feelings with facts.

Absolutely!

Exaggerating times and as you say confusing thoughts and feelings with actual facts.

ex techie

I know that the staff in the stores worked quickly to empty the shelves. I don't know if the goal was to remove the glass shelves themselves' date=' but many of them fell and shattered before this could be accomplished.

 

I'm also aware of 2 CMs that I can name who were injured in falls while going about their duties.

 

Certainly it was terrifying, but I do not believe it was life threatening.

During one past hurricane (Jeanne), the ships came into Port Everglades (Ft. Lauderdale) as conditions were such that Port Canaveral had to be closed. Big mess, no fun at all, but again decisions are made on the basis of safety rather than convenience.[/quote']

 

I find it odd that in all of the videos posted online, I haven't found one where furniture or merchandise was falling off the shelves. And I have looked!

Only videos showing the stores shelves emptied on the floor to stop them falling, the Investigation kiosks turned over, but not smashed etc.

Yes there was some damage done to some windows and such, I'm sure a lot of crockery and glassware was broken, but chandeliers weren't falling down, the theaters survived, as did the restaurants, and those very fragile 103" plasma screens too.

Fort Lauderdale, I was on that cruise :)

 

 

ex techie

As a US Navy vet, I have had seen my fair share of storms. I’ve been through ‘Nor’easters (40+ degree rolls anyone?), hurricanes, tropical storms, blizzards (!), and have even been hit by a rogue 30+ foot wave. While I am by no means an expert, I can tell you that being in any storm of magnitude can be a frightening experience, especially when it’s your first one! The worst storm for me was sailing through the outer edge of a hurricane on an aircraft carrier and seeing green water come over the flight deck (which is 60 feet above the waterline!).

 

While I was not on the Fantasy through Hurricane Sandy, I do remember reading about the incident and thinking how terrifying it must have been. As I read through this post, I couldn’t help but wonder if it was really that bad. But as Elaine5715 said, “Another example of how people confuse thoughts and feelings with facts.” So let’s look at some facts –

 

At midnight on the night of 27 Oct 2012, Hurricane Sandy was 420 miles NE of Miami with max winds of 75 MPH. While I do not have the exact location of the Fantasy, she was off the coast of Miami where winds were gusting around 40 MPH. Sea conditions that night were probably Force 8, and the Fantasy was in the left rear quadrant of the storm, which is the weakest quadrant of a hurricane. With Hurricane Sandy moving rapidly to the NNE, Fantasy was not in extreme danger that evening. So why did the passengers feel like they were in grave danger that evening?

 

Take a look at the sheer size of the Fantasy’s superstructure, and now imagine that superstructure acting as a huge sail. As the Fantasy steamed north on the evening of 27 Oct 2012, she was probably being hit by a consistent 40 MPH wind from the west, which in turn tried to push the Fantasy to starboard. After a certain point, righting momentum takes over and the Fantasy rolls back to port, only to have the wind push her back to starboard. And thus the rolls were most likely amplified by the sheer size of the ship, and when combined with large seas (amplified by the Gulf Stream), the end result was a wild ride. Also keep in mind that cruise ships typically don’t bolt everything down, so everything went flying! And while cruise ships have stabilizers, in these conditions they can act to amplify the rolls instead of decreasing the rolls!

 

Oh – lifeboats. There was a comment made wondering if they would be able to launch lifeboats during the storm. The answer is yes, cruise ship lifeboats are enclosed and self-contained, and can be launched in almost any weather conditions. Lifeboats are designed to handle the worse conditions, since most of the time ships are abandoned in the worse conditions!

 

Alrighty – I am almost certain that I am about to flamed on this one. My goal here is NOT to discredit those folks who were on-board Fantasy that evening, but to hopefully help ease the minds of those folks who are having concerns about being on-board a cruise during a storm. To those who weathered Sandy on the Fantasy, I salute you!

Thanks for your insight LT Hambone!

Very interesting reading and thank you for your service!

ex techie

While I will agree with most of what you say, and also thank you for your service with the "Gray Funnel Line", a couple of points:

 

A consistant wind will cause "wind heel" where the ship lists to one side, going as far over until the righting force equals the wind force on the side of the ship. The ship will stay in this condition as long as the wind blows nearly consistantly. This is remedied by moving ballast.

 

Rolling is caused by the cyclical nature of waves, and the size, shape, and frequency of waves, even in the fringes of a hurricane, are mainly determined by the water depth and the amount of land within a hundred miles or so.

 

Just to diminish the mind easing you gave, cruise ship lifeboats are not enclosed (though you are probably using the layman's term for this), they are "partially enclosed". This is far better than the old open lifeboats, but it does mean that the "doors" are only canvas curtains which will not keep the seas out (though that's what the bilge pump is for). But even the old open lifeboats with oar power (ash breeze), were capable and many times actually launched in hurricanes and survived.

Thanks for your input too Chief.

Just referencing you previous post, I was on the Magic with 30' swells occasionally and I had a protein spill that night locking up, after loosing my footing on deck 10 on the rain drenched vinyl deck.

Yes it was uncomfortable, and embarrassing, but ship happens! And at no point did I think we were not safe.

If you do not truly trust the Master of the vessel to protect you and keep you safe, then you should not cruise.

I'd imagine some of the children that wrote they were thankful they did not die in the post above probably would never have thought that was a possibility if their parents or guardians hadn't put that thought in their head int he first place, or not been so hysterical that they would have comforted their children and assured them that they were safe.

Again, if you do not or cannot entrust your life with the Master of the vessel completely, do not sail.

ex techie

Just to diminish the mind easing you gave, cruise ship lifeboats are not enclosed (though you are probably using the layman's term for this), they are "partially enclosed". This is far better than the old open lifeboats, but it does mean that the "doors" are only canvas curtains which will not keep the seas out (though that's what the bilge pump is for). But even the old open lifeboats with oar power (ash breeze), were capable and many times actually launched in hurricanes and survived.

Chief,

I'm probably misinterpreting what you are saying, but the Fantasy's lifeboats have what looks like vinyl covers over the Guest hatches. And they look like although not water tight, they would keep out rain and sea spray from the sides, and some water from waves, but not a lot of protection from water coming up the side of the boat and underneath the hatch cover?

Fantasy:

Magic:

ex techie

I was on the cruise before the engine trouble one (so 1/23-1/30). Because of the weather/winds, we got half a day, almost, in CC, from 1-5pm.

We, of course, got no OBC/future discount, but people who had reserved cabanas received a 25% discount, despite getting a 50% day. Disney is a little weird in their decision making.

True that the discount decision making is not always consistent. I suspect it depends on who they confer with shoreside.

Obviously if they can't dock (or tender if a tender port), all excursions are refunded. When we had a morning excursion on Castaway and couldn't do it due to weather, we were offered a change to an afternoon time. We asked for and received a full refund for the morning time.

Normally there is no refund/discount for future booking/whatever for weather related incidents other than refunding activities that did not occur. DCL doesn't promise to get you to ANY port if you read the cruise contract.

I agree that a 25% cabana refund is not sufficient with a 50% reduction in time on the island. On the other hand, I'm sure that people who had booked floats, tubes, snorkel equipment, etc. for all day did not get any reduction on those items.

Oh, sure. They cancelled everything for the day. Everything. You could rent a bike and that was just about it.

We had an aft balcony so it was really interesting watching the ship try to dock all three times. I mean, it's narrow on a good calm weather day so we were super impressed at the effort.

It happens. It's winter.

We got off, mostly to take a walk, and when we got to Serenity Bay, we'd found they closed everything but the bar. A lot of people were super disappointed that there was no notice but the weather/waves/surf was pretty intense out there.

(Still - whole day, cancel the port, $200 OBC. Less than half day, pay 75% for your cabana and if you're out at SB, tough noogie.)

[This reply is in response to post #4. It's related the the Fantasy that encountered Hurricane Sandy.]

 

 

In a Force 12 what lifeboats would be launched?

After a couple 20 degree lists what thoughts would the average pax have?

Especially after a look outside if possible, only starboard possible, and can see 30 feet visibility, horizontal wind at 100 mph. Oh my ....

 

 

You can manipulate the event all you want, the fact is the Fantasy went thru a Force 12.

 

Have you? Have others who continue to question the events of 10 /27/12?

 

 

ETA; DCL sailed into/followed Sandy,

I don't doubt what happened to you - and yes I have been through Force 10, and I have been through other gale force storms also. On the Qm2. Handles it with grace and dexterity, like no cruise ship ever could : )

I was in the December '09 Nor'easter when returning to NY which was about identical to this one ono video below - Force 10, 30 ft. waves. I was slightly green, but man did she handle it like nothing else I have ever seen. I never once worried for my safety. People ate, drank, danced the best they could. So yes, I have been in a storm like that, on a liner. The reason we didn't list is because it is an ocean liner, and no cruise ship is designed for that type of punishment. But man did it creek & crack! I don't think I would never board a regular cruise ship to anywhere except the Bahamas or Caribbean (due to being prone to seasickness). If I am in the North Atlantic, mid-Atlantic, or sailing TA, or even the CM provinces, then I will be on the Qm2!

Watch below - it happens a bit more often than people realize on the North Atlantic run!

Man is it wild when it does!:D:eek:

Oh, sure. They cancelled everything for the day. Everything. You could rent a bike and that was just about it.

 

We had an aft balcony so it was really interesting watching the ship try to dock all three times. I mean, it's narrow on a good calm weather day so we were super impressed at the effort.

 

It happens. It's winter.

 

We got off, mostly to take a walk, and when we got to Serenity Bay, we'd found they closed everything but the bar. A lot of people were super disappointed that there was no notice but the weather/waves/surf was pretty intense out there.

 

(Still - whole day, cancel the port, $200 OBC. Less than half day, pay 75% for your cabana and if you're out at SB, tough noogie.)

I don't think the issue was "cancel the port, $200 OBC." I think it was that the port wasn't canceled due to weather. It was canceled due to a problem with the ship. DCL cannot in any way be held responsible for the weather. They might have some liability for a ship issue, particularly if it could be proven that it was due to incorrect maintenance or something similar. Yes, stuff just breaks down at times and they may have no liability issues, but it was nice for them to do something for those guests affected by the ship issue.

I don't think the issue was "cancel the port' date=' $200 OBC." I think it was that the port wasn't canceled due to weather. It was canceled due to a problem with the ship. DCL cannot in any way be held responsible for the weather. They might have some liability for a ship issue, particularly if it could be proven that it was due to incorrect maintenance or something similar. Yes, stuff just breaks down at times and they may have no liability issues, but it was nice for them to do something for those guests affected by the ship issue.[/quote']

 

I realize that it sounds like I'm complaining. I'm not, really, because I wasn't out anything. You're right, though - it was a ship issue v. weather issue and that makes all the difference.

Chief,

I'm probably misinterpreting what you are saying, but the Fantasy's lifeboats have what looks like vinyl covers over the Guest hatches. And they look like although not water tight, they would keep out rain and sea spray from the sides, and some water from waves, but not a lot of protection from water coming up the side of the boat and underneath the hatch cover?

 

ex techie

Did you really have to post those so big? Got to scroll across to get to the quote button. :D

Anyway, canvas or vinyl, those are not watertight covers, and a good sea will push them in and you'll get water in the boat. Google "totally enclosed lifeboat" to see the difference. These boats have solid doors that dog down tight, and are normally "self-righting", meaning that if everyone is seat belted in (another feature of enclosed boats), if a wave tosses the boat completely upside down, it will naturally roll back upright. The semi-enclosed boats will not do this.

Did you really have to post those so big? Got to scroll across to get to the quote button. :D

 

Anyway, canvas or vinyl, those are not watertight covers, and a good sea will push them in and you'll get water in the boat. Google "totally enclosed lifeboat" to see the difference. These boats have solid doors that dog down tight, and are normally "self-righting", meaning that if everyone is seat belted in (another feature of enclosed boats), if a wave tosses the boat completely upside down, it will naturally roll back upright. The semi-enclosed boats will not do this.

Sorry Chief!

I could only find hi res pictures that showed what I was speaking of, and didn't consider the consequences!

I'm familiar with the fully enclosed lifeboats that oil rigs and container ships use.

Out of interest, in your opinion, why wouldn't a cruise line have lockable watertight doors over the loading openings rather than the canvas or vinyl covers?

Obviously people needing somewhere to vomit is a consideration, but I would prefer vomit in the lifeboat rather than relying on bilge pumps or being drenched by waves if I were seated near one of the loading openings?

Especially if the floor drains become blocked with vomit?

ex techie