Loreni

Thank you Cruisinfinsup, CineGraphic, and John!

I found a number of options that are very close (inexpensive), probably good enough.  They are called sherbet dishes or French coupes and they are stainless steel.  I haven’t found the exact duplicate.  They may be manufactured specifically for Princess.  I’ll get the closest approximation for now and keep checking eBay for the unicorn.  I don’t think the ones on Princess are silver plate because it would be difficult to maintain, but they do look a bit nicer than stainless steel.  They look similar in reflectivity  to the Princess butter dishes.

I am trying to simulate some elements of a Princess MDR dining experience for someone who will certainly never cruise again.  Her health did not outlast the delay caused by coronavirus.  Specifically I’m trying to locate the metal bowls used for serving the ice cream in the MDR.

If anyone has insight or can point me in the right direction I would be grateful.  I think they are stainless steel.  But maybe silver plate?

My belief is that Princess was trying to shed their older, experienced cruisers pre-pandemic.  The pandemic gives them cover to do so in a big way.  If this was just about directly saving money, why has priority boarding been taken away from Platinum and Elite.  This would cost nothing to provide.  Taking it away does, however,  send an unambiguous signal.  Message received.
 

Princess obviously believes they will be better off financially without their most loyal cruisers.  Yet I wonder if there are enough younger people who want to cruise, both in general and specifically with Princess, to replace the older cruisers they wish to shed.  Maybe it is for the best that some of us reconsider if Princess is still a good fit.  DH and I do not like the design of the newer ships.  He calls them clip ships…. because of the elimination of balcony furniture (lounge chairs and decent tables), tiny balconies, and no promenades.  You can’t easily spend money while sitting comfortably on your balcony or on the promenade deck.  Gotta get inside where you can drink and gamble and shop…on the clip ship. Of course inside is the worst place to be for corona transmission.  

I believe I read above that CCL does not want to be held to a higher standard than the rest of the travel and entertainment industry.

But is there any other industry that poses a higher threat to disease spread than the cruise industry?  
 

Is there any other corporation which seeks to bring together UNVACCINATED passengers from all over the world with UNVACCINATED crew from all over the world and place them in a confined space for days and weeks at a time.  And then sail to ports all over the world with local populations that may not be fully vaccinated?  All while new variants are occurring continuously? It seems the very least CCL could do is require all passengers and crew to be vaccinated.

It boggles the mind that CCL would even contemplate not requiring vaccines for their passengers AND crew.  Especially when other cruise lines are.  Clearly other lines found it workable and not “impractical”.  It is almost as if CCL doesn’t want the added expense of securing  vaccinated crew because it would somewhat reduce profits.  Frankly it’s unconscionable.  And if it another outbreak occurs in a CCL ship because they implement this policy, I believe they are finished.  People have already noticed that CCL ships were front and center when this pandemic began.  People have noticed that CCL was slow to halt cruising with tragic results.  People have not forgotten the heart hands in Japan.

There are other cruise lines.

There are other forms of leisure travel.

2 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

@Loreni

You have so many places to consider! It sounds like you've already done a lot of traveling in Italy- I'll bet the Cook Islands might be a better choice. But when we've gone it's been first 2 weeks a Med cruise and, then a week each in Venice and Sorrento.

Here's an interesting Med itinerary Windstar has for April 2022- the price is decent for Windstar.

https://www.windstarcruises.com/cruise/overview/collector/barcelona-to-athens/ancient-to-avant-garde-mediterranean/?pkgid=249082

 

Have you considered the Galapagos? It's been about 20 years for us but that was an adventure!

 

Wow what an itinerary on Windstar!  Thank you.  
 

We have friends who speak highly of their cruise to the Galapagos.  We are also intrigued by Antarctica (even just a sail by).  But it all goes back to the first question we are struggling with.  Is is better to do something you know you will love or have a new adventure.  We haven’t reached an agreement on that.  Truthfully either would be wonderful and it is fun to think of and plan for both.  Sometimes I joke that we should just return to FP until we get sick of it...but then we might not ever go anyplace else.

Thanks TBK, those pictures are beautiful.  Do you recommend actually staying overnight there?  

TE35 and TBK:  The Cook Islands are a wonderful idea.  Aitutaki looks amazing.  We especially enjoy being able to snorkel directly from the shore and it looks like this is doable in Rarotonga.  This is also one of the reasons we love Moorea.

Petoonya:  Thank you for those itineraries that stop in Amalfi, it would be easy to visit Positano from there!  We’ve been to Italy twice in April and had great weather.  When you visited each May was it part of the late April transatlantics?  Any advice or suggestions for a land based stay? Once we were able to combine a March transatlantic (Ft Lauderdale to Venice) with an April world cruise segment (Civitavecchia to Ft. Lauderdale),  but this was a special case due dry dock.  This was a wonderful trip that gave us a few days on land between sailings. We stayed near Camp dei Fiori in Rome at  Residenze Farnese.  Otherwise, it has been many years since we took land based vacations to Italy.  I went once in August (too hot) and it give me a chance to swim at Capri.  It was nice enough, but I don’t need to include swimming on a future trip.  We’ve always stayed in hotels in Italy, but have friends who rented an apartment for a month and enjoyed it. Another couple went on a road trip.  We’ve talked about the possibility of taking an April transatlantic, staying in Italy for a while, then flying to England and sailing Cunard to NY.  Another possibility would be just to fly back from Italy.  Or fly to Italy in March (the weather would still be acceptable by our standards) and take a world cruise segment back.  In any case we want to include some land based time in Italy.

Easter Island:  I wonder if anyone has visited Rapa Nui (Easter Island) from Papeete.  This would be a true adventure.  Only one flight a week so plenty of time to explore the small island.

Thanks TBK.  You have given me a lot of happiness today!

Petoonya, it was funny you should mention, with the exception of Fiji, the very alternatives to FP that we’ve been talking about.  Although we’ve been to Italy  a number of times, we never made it to Positano and I’ve been a bit fixated on the idea lately.  We were so close....Capri, Sorrento, Pompeii.  Australia would be a totally new place that has also come up in discussion.       Hopefully, we have have a chance to visit these places someday. 

Thank you for the pictures, TBK.

We only spent two hours here in February 2020 (seems very long ago) and didn’t have my camera.  These pictures bring back good memories!  I see the chairs where we sat.

Thank you both for your thoughts.  We talked and agreed that if we knew it was our last vacation, it would be cruising French Polynesia and maybe adding a week on Moorea.  Staying overnight  on Moorea wouldn’t be a new island, but it would be a new experience.   The beach at Tipaniers is nice, maybe we would stay there and visit Motu Farone again.  
 

This pandemic puts travel in a new light for us.  You never know when the window of opportunity will open and when it will close again.   I think for our next trip we want relaxation and enjoyment and not too much adventure.

FP is by far our favorite destination.  We have traveled more than some, but we haven’t been everywhere.  I think we have a reasonable frame of reference and we don’t really expect to find a place we’d like better.  I think if we went back to FP we would probably enjoy it (while we were doing it) more than the alternatives we’re considering.  On the other hand, afterwards, we might find we have more clearly distinct memories when looking back if we go someplace new.  So is it better to maximize the joy while in the moment or to create many distinct (and hopefully still pleasant) memories.

Wider promenade decks with lots of full length loungers.

Paper Patter by request only.

I understand that cruising may never return to normal, but assuming it does, where would you go first:

1) return to your favorite cruise itinerary, or 

2) go to on a bucket list cruise to new places?

I always knew that we had a finite window of opportunity to cruise because health and life are finite.  But now I realize that a pandemic can also close the window of opportunity and another pandemic is always possible.  What if the next window is very short.  Is is better to do what you know you will enjoy or explore a new place.

10 minutes ago, gardenbunny said:

I love cruising - been on 2 World Cruises.  I love that it is a great way to see a lot of the world in long cruises to all the different regions.  Usually do 4 per year.  I miss it more than I thought.  Moved a lot to August and September of 2021 thinking surely we can cruise again.  Regardless of what CDC required, I was teady to go.  

 

My August Alaska just got cancelled.  And when I asked the CSR about my 3 Enchanted trips in the Med in September from Rome the answer was not encouraging.  I was mostly going for the new ship and a few ports I had never been to. She said “we will probably know soon”. Not sure what that means but I am thinking May/June time frame. 2022 they will be putting Enchanted to Canada New England.  Regal will be doing Med with no Corsica or Malta (ports I wanted) but adding Istanbul and Kusadasi.   Discovery will be Alaska 2022.

I will probably cancel and start over for 2022.  

 

My BIG question....can cruise lines afford another year of no revenue?  I am really concerned for their futures.  Airlines got some Fed help but cruise lines cannot. Airlines are flying again and should have a better year than 2020 and probably looking ahead for 2022.  Air flights are flown in hours with hundreds on board.   Cruises are for days with thousands.  

 

Looking into some USA trips - like the 5 Mighty national parks in Utah. Have a booked since 2019 Rocky Mountaineer train in Canada that we moved from 2020 to 2021.  Now it is harder to get into Canada than Hawaii!  Probably cancel that, too.

 

Feeling a bit down.....

 

Utah is a really beautiful state.  After the last cruise, following Dr. Fauci’s advice, we drove home from CA instead of flying.  It took a long time, but gave us a chance to see some of Utah.  We were able to briefly visit both Zion and Arches National Parks.  For years, we’d talked about a road trip to see some more of the National Parks. Anyway after that unplanned cross country road trip, it would be fun to do a planned one, with less driving per day.  I would love to go back to Utah...but first the beach.

It is now just about 1 year since our last cruise ended, a 28-day round trip LA to Tahiti.  This is our favorite itinerary and our fourth time doing it.  A few days into this trip we learned about the Diamond Princess.  We still bought future cruise credits because we thought the virus would be under control soon.  But we couldn’t help consider the  horror the Diamond passengers were enduring. Samoa and American Samoa would not allow us ashore, so we got extra time in Hawaii and Bora Bora and Moorea (by ferry).  We were able to scout out some options on Moorea and Bora Bora for a land based vacation.  Of course it would cost more per day and require a long flight, but it would offer much more time to enjoy French Polynesia and eliminate any possibility of being quarantined on a ship.

Still we are not interested in flying anywhere right now.  Certainly we are not interested in cruising until this pandemic is over and we see what cruising looks like.  As long as masks are required, that means the virus and any dangerous variants are still a significant problem.  And people can have the virus and still test negative...and still spread it.  And new variants can still emerge.  
 

We do enjoy sea days.  We like to sit on steamer chairs on the promenade deck and look at the sea or enjoy a balcony with comfortable lounge chairs.  Sadly Princess seems to be eliminating both of these options on the new ships.  I hope they rethink that.  So, for now, a beachfront cottage that we can drive to looks good.  In some ways it replicates the feel of a sea day.  For now, it is better than a beachfront resort with shared ventilation and the need to use restaurants.  So far, we have never been to a beach cottage that required us to do laundry.  

Before coronavirus, I believe Princess used cost saving strategies as trivial as rationing the so-called butter and as serious as the “magic pipe.”  Since they apparently felt the need to do these things when they were profitable, one wonders what types of cutbacks will they may resort to going forward and how might it change the cruise experience?  Some of these cutbacks may be very apparent (like the “butter”), others might be hidden (like the pipe).

We will take our time returning to cruising.  We won’t do it while masks are required.  And I don’t want to be on a cruise ship when a new mutation is discovered.  Also, we won’t cruise if we are required to use Princess shore excursions in order to leave the ship.  Sometimes we do use Princess excursions.  Usually we don’t.  It isn’t all about saving money, although that often is the case.  It is about leaving the ship on our own schedule after breakfast and doing what we like on shore.  Occasionally we have spend much more than any Princess excursion would have cost.

We’ve been talking about going back to a beachfront  cottage that we can drive to.  It isn’t exotic, but the water is warm and clean.  We can sleep as late as we want without worrying about answering the door to room service or rushing to the MDR or the crowded buffet.  We can prepare and eat a simple healthy lunch or dinner when our stomach tells us to.  We can swim or walk on the beach at anytime without cabs or tenders.

Of course, we still miss cruising.  In a few days, it will be one year since we disembarked.  I hope it was not for the last time.

Many here are diehard cruisers who can’t wait to sail. Although I wonder if the volume on these boards is reduced since Covid. When cruising really starts up again, I believe many people who fall into the following groups may think twice. 

1. People who had to wait so long for a refund.  Especially those who really needed their money back due to Covid related hardships.
 

2. People who booked after March and had their cruises canceled and are waiting for refunds. These people may rightly or wrongly believe Princess expected to cancel and is effectively using them for a loan.

3. Anyone in a high risk group.

4. People who have spent the last few months exploring other vacation options such as road trips or visiting family who they will not have seen for a long time.

5. People who have committed to other options by buying an RV, boat, or a vacation home.
 

6. People who no longer trust the cruise industry or perhaps Princess in particular.

7. People who fear being quarantined either on a ship or near a port.
 

8. People who were financially hurt by the pandemic.

9. People who don’t want to be shepherded when ashore having no contact with anyone but their guide.  Many excursions won’t even be possible under these conditions.  For example, how would one tour the Sistine Chapel?

10. People who don’t believe the ships have adequate medical facilities.
 

11. People who don’t want uncertainty regarding which ports they will actually visit.  Who wants to buy a pig in a poke?

12. People who don’t want to wear masks.

13. People who do want to wear masks, but wonder how (if) mask wearing will be enforced.
 

14. People who have never cruised before. They may not be able to get past the stories in the media.

15. Frequent cruisers who believe cruising has been going downhill and fear more cuts will be made as cruise lines struggle to become profitable again.

16.  People who always believed there were pluses and minuses with cruising, but greatly appreciated the value it offered.  This value may change if prices go up even if service doesn’t go down.
 

17. People who don’t believe social distancing is possible on a ship.
 

I believe cruising will survive in some form, hopefully not too different than we remember.  But I wonder how.

I believe most  of the recent trends in ship design and furnishing choices may encourage COVID spread.  Small nearly unusable balconies and no real promenade deck.  This was clearly done to encourage people to crowd inside the ship where they can spend money, rather than relaxing in privacy on their balconies or reading in the fresh air on the promenade deck. No midships elevator means more crowing of existing elevators. Social distancing wouldn’t be easy on the Royal class.

But fleet wide furniture decisions may also encourage virus spread.   let’s not forget the heartless decision to remove the chairs from the cabins.  Anything to discourage people from enjoying time in their cabins. Even those with back pain could not be guaranteed a chair.  Large tables were removed from the balcony discourage room service.  Loungers were removed even from caribe deck balconies.  Miserably uncomfortable balcony furniture replaced the comfortable furniture.  Fees for room service were tried.  Again, anything to drive people out of their cabins and off their balconies.  Princess makes no money from people enjoying their private space.
 

Then there was the erosion of benefits for the most loyal cruisers.  Some even said the the cruise lines really don’t want these passengers and would prefer newer younger cruisers who spend more money.  Celebrity seems even more blatant in their distain for older passengers...blasting loud prerecorded house music throughout the ship and using very low chairs that old knees don’t like. 
 

Well, the industry may get their wish.  We are older and will not cruise without a vaccine.  The risk/reward isn’t worth it.  Many older people we know feel the same way.  Maybe the future for Princess is a much smaller fleet for younger and more affluent cruisers.  But will young people be willing to try their first cruise?  Even young people are at some risk.  I read that young affluent people are very interested in VanLife.  sales of fancy camping vans are way up...many buyers are young, first time campers. So what demographic remains for the cruise industry?

I just read on another board that passengers will not be able to go shore unless they are on a ship-organized excursion and they will have no interaction with locals except for their guide.  That will not appeal to many.  Most of the affluent younger people want to interact with locals and truly experience the cultures.  

Not before cruise industry executives are cruising aboard their own ships.  And not cloistered in their suites with room service, but strolling the decks and eating in the MDR.

And not cloistered in their suites with room service, but strolling the decks, riding the elevators, and eating in the MDR?

Are you implying that the executives would stop working if their compensation was suspended for a few months?  Why?  Is money that important to them.  But it is not important to their passengers?

It would generate some much needed goodwill.  These executives are in a much better position to personally get through the coronavirus than passengers who may need their money for rent or mortgage payments.  

Thank you Chengkp75, that was very helping.

If improving working and living arrangements for crew won’t prevent or reduce disease spread and if more social distancing of passengers won’t prevent or reduce disease spread then how can the cruise lines possibly come up with a safe plan for returning to operation without a vaccine or an effective treatment.  Unless the virus just goes away on its own by mutating into a harmless form.  

There is professor at Purdue who is an expert in ventilation systems and disease.  He says that the ventilation system on planes is better because it filters virus while the ventilation system on cruises does not.  Hopefully this can be addressed.  Nonetheless I don’t feel safe flying or on busses because, as you point out, social distancing is not possible.  
 

Social distancing may be somewhat possible on a ship, but since you are on the ship for days or weeks rather than hours I wonder if any mitigation efforts could be effective.  So far the CDC thinks not.  They also don’t think I should fly.  One thing I do know is that I have caught URI (usually minor) on about 80% of my cruises (some of which I have driven to) but on few of the hundreds of flights I’ve taken for business travel.