Tante Amalie

We are 5 star Mariners and eat most of our meals in PG (mainly because the food has gotten so bad in the MDR, but that's another thread). In addition to the 5 star discount, we always get some dinners from our travel agent and sometimes Explore4 etc. This makes the calculation of our dining charges complicated.

It almost always gets screwed up, but we expect it and get it straightened out. The interesting thing is that at least 50% of the time they end up making a mistake in our favor. I check the cabin charges carefully and if we are being overcharged, I let them know. They have always corrected their mistake. If I am being undercharged, I don't say anything (perhaps I should). In any event, we have never lost anything and have sometimes benefited greatly from their sloppy accounting.

Probably the biggest change is the overall drop in quality due to continued cost cutting. It shows up in nearly every aspect of HAL. We are 5 star Mariners and avoid HAL unless there are special circumstances. One Food and Beverage Manager told me that his budget has been frozen or cut every year for 5 years, despite dramatic rises in food costs. He has no choice but to use worse cuts of meat, cheaper fish varieties and lower quality food. It's a shame, as HAL food used to be pretty decent. Excursions are in very large and crowded groups. Nearly every activity is a "nickel and dime" proposition. Take a look at the Koningsdam reviews. They are terrible for a new ship, and almost all the criticism can be traced to the fact that it is too big and crowded. This is the future of HAL and it saddens me to see this decline.

Does anyone know if the excursion to Copper Canyon was canceled on the last Azamara cruise to the Sea of Cortez? Most cruise lines have been canceling the port call at Topolabampo.

Thank you.

We flew in this evening for our cruise tomorrow. No problems or delays.

yes

We like the tables for 2 and there are a couple of good ones in the forward dining room. But most of them are poor and if you get a bad one, you are just a couple of inches away from the next table. It's really like you are at the same table as your neighbors, but with a small gap between you. It's a bit strange, as you might as well be at the same table. You are going to hear every word of their conversation (and vice versa).

I think they have increased the passenger capacity on the Prinsendam in order to accommodate the new cabins, and now have created a higher density situation with a more crowded dining room. It reminds me of the restaurants in New York or Paris where you are squeezed in like sardines.

I typically compare the two lines to my clients like this:

 

Both are premium cruise lines.

Think of HAL as being more like a Westin or Fairmont style of hotel

Celebrity would be more like a W or Hyatt/Hyatt Regency

Effectively at the same "level" but different onboard atmosphere.

This is a really optimistic view of HAL. I no longer consider HAL (or Celebrity) a premium line. They have both regressed to mass market lines, but still somewhat better than Carnival, RCCL or NCL. I agree that HAL and Celebrity are comparable, but not equivalent to Hyatt, W, or Westin. I think of them more like Holiday Inn or Sheraton (at best).

Our first cruise on Prinsendam was 55 days and we had some of the same concerns as the OP. We enjoyed it, but I can see how it might not be for everyone. There are lots of creaks and groans from the ship, but it never bothered us. I would have some concerns about the new cabins too. But we haven't hesitated to go back on the Prinsendam.

On the plus side, I agree that service is very good and I enjoy the retro look and feel of the ship. The dining room is a bit odd. The tables are very close together and it can get quite noisy. The "Wintergarden" that was recently added is great and it makes for the best Canaletto of any HAL ship (by far). I would give it a try and see if it suits you. Despite her quirks and age, she's worth a try.

I read the speculation about HAL's possible big announcement with great interest. Several of the suggestions (smoking change, loyalty program consolidation, rebranding, etc.) make a lot of sense. The possibility of some significant change at HAL makes me wonder about even more fundamental structural changes that could be in the works. Frankly, I think something is overdue from HAL, regardless of whether or not there is a big announcement next week.

It has always occurred to me that the HAL business model has become flawed and out of date. They made a large investment in smaller ships that have become a sort of millstone around their neck. To deal with the increasingly intense price competition from larger ships, HAL has been forced to cut back on service and quality in order to be competitive. But in doing so, they have endangered their reputation and are losing their brand equity. So what can they do?

They seem stuck in a perilous middle position. Their ships are too small to compete on price with the truly large vessels. Most of the costs for a cruise ship are fixed and there are huge scale economies from spreading them out over 4,000+ passengers. Even the Koningsdam is too small to offer cost relief.

However, their ships are too large to offer a boutique/luxury experience along the lines of the upscale lines. Even the Prinsendam is too big and old for this(although Crystal pulls this off pretty well).

I've always felt that HAL has some of the best itineraries in the industry. But this will be hard to sustain as they move into bigger ships. I'm leaving next week on the 50 day Med cruise and it's hard to believe they could consistently fill ships bigger than the Vista class for this type of cruise.

I fear that HAL needs to do something drastic. There is a consensus that they are losing money with their current business model. They have a large number of loyal repeat customers, but they tend to take longer cruises and spend at a low per diem. I suspect many of my fellow passengers next week will be 4 and 5 star Mariners who won't be excited about buying their umpteenth photo of boarding the ship or buying overpriced art from Park West. HAL has to recruit a new demographic in order to get out of this rut. I have a few ideas about how this could be done, but it will certainly involve taking a risk and perhaps alienating some of their current customers. It's not even obvious to me that the HAL brand has enough equity to justify further investment and that it could get rolled into another division. I look forward to seeing if HAL is ready to do this.

I love to run and do so regularly at home and while cruising.

The jogging situation on HAL ships is far from ideal, but I manage to make it work.

My understanding is that jogging is specifically banned on most ships. If there is a sign prohibiting jogging, then I don't see anything to talk about.

HAL is not helping by putting contradictory information in their brochures and marketing material. If HAL advertises that it is possible to jog on the Promenade Deck and there is no sign to prohibit it, how can you object when somebody does it? I realize you might not like sharing the space, but you can say that about any public area. I suppose you could petition HAL to prohibit it on the Vista ships or the Konigsdam, but until they do, I wouldn't come down so hard on people who enjoy the fresh air and teak deck while jogging.

By the way, the "jogging track" on the sports deck is pretty awful for running. I've done it many times. It's exposed to the weather and almost always wet and slippery in the mornings. It's a very short loop and there is a series of obstacles blocking the flow through the sport courts, not to mention the loungers that are often spread around at the rear. If that new "track" on the Konigsdam is really only 500 feet, that sounds pretty useless as well.

I never jog on the Promenade Deck as it is usually crowded and I don't like weaving my way through people traveling at different speeds. It would be a great place to run if it were empty (and legal), but that isn't the case.

For all the above reasons, I run on the treadmills. I prefer to run outside, but there is't a practical way for me to do it on the cruise ships. I'm sure there are inconsiderate joggers on HAL ships, just like there are inconsiderate walkers and inconsiderate people in the Lido. Not all runners are that way and some us do actually try to consider our impact on others, no matter what the rules are.

Using the old plan, I have been making banking deposits from HAL ships for years. With the new system, I imagine it would take the middle level of internet access.

 

I have been not only moving funds between different bank accounts and buying and selling stocks, but also taking photos of checks and depositing them into accounts.

 

It usually took me only a few minutes on line for each transaction. No problem. Of course I always do it late at night when the ship internet usage is low

 

Scott & Karen

I would be very careful about putting this information out over a public network. You might check into some supplemental encryption. There are all sorts of keystroke logging programs and other nasty apps that can capture your account numbers and private data. Be careful.

If one carries that thought forward, what would you say about the guest who has 800+ days, all of which were in Neptune Suite or Pinnacle Suite? They are the same Platinum Medallion and Five Star as someone in a lower down cabin. To follow your thinking, should they receive more 'benefits'?

 

I'm not saying they should but wonder what others think? ;)

 

I think you could make a case for receiving greater benefits for having spent more money on HAL over the years. It does complicate things a bit, but I do feel you should be rewarded in accordance with your "investment".

 

Some cruise lines do this already. We sail quite a bit with Crystal and they tie their milestone benefits to the type of cabin you have. Their program is very weak (no free laundry at any level) and mostly takes the form of cabin credit. The more expensive your cabin is, the more OBC you receive. We generally get their cheaper cabins and receive less OBC as a result. But I don't have a problem with the people in the Penthouse getting bigger rewards for their loyalty. They've certainly demonstrated that they are excellent customers.

I guess we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but it's a bit strange how they handle the benefits. We are five star and have a 50 day cruise coming up in a couple of weeks. While I appreciate any gift, it seems strange that we receive the same benefits as a 1 week cruise that is much cheaper. This cruise is the equivalent of 7 back-to-back-to-back one week cruises. If you had those consecutive cruises at the five star level, you would receive a non-stop deluge of wine tastings, Pinnacle dinners, thermal suites, cooking classes, etc. When you spread this out over 7 weeks, it doesn't seem nearly as generous.

At any rate, I'm glad they created the 5 star level, but I think it could be handled better. I suspect that most 5 star cruisers tend to take longer cruises and have their benefits diluted.

For years we have written on our surveys that the coffee was not very good.

But it seems that things might have changed a bit. This may be a too small a sample to draw a reliable conclusion, but something seems to be different during the last year. The room service and Lido coffee seems to have gotten better. It's still nothing to rave about, but on our last 2 cruises, we both noticed a difference. They also changed the tea bags and they seem much worse to us. (Pinnacle tea is wonderful)

The Explorations Cafe is very reliable and good. It's also quite cheap if you have the 50% discount. They always seem to put some of the nicest staff members at that station.

By the way, you might do a search and check out what Bruce Muzz has to say about coffee. His theory is that no matter how the cruise lines change their standard blend, it will bother as many people as it pleases.

I have to confess there is a degree of perverse entertainment value to reading this (and the related lounge chair) thread. There seem to be a few posters who insist on having the last word.

I certainly agree with the people who are speaking out against selfish behavior on cruise ships. It seems to show up in the same predictable places. I doubt anything we say will ever change that.

However, I always wonder about the source of these conflicts. Part of the blame has to be directed at HAL as well. They seem to create artificial shortages (lounge chairs, seats at the Lido, seats at the shows, machines in the gym, etc.) and then let the passengers blame each other for "hogging" a scarce resource. If the public spaces were bigger and there were more chairs, we wouldn't have to fight with each other about what the policy should be for using them. It's a shame to see the stress and conflict between passengers who are just trying to have an enjoyable vacation. In their attempt to squeeze as many passengers onto the ship as possible, HAL is creating a situation that results in these unnecessary conflicts.

We also had a related question- on many ships there is a dedicated time set aside for ballroom dancing in the evening. Has the Maasdam been doing this lately?

Thanks in advance

I'll miss the Statendam. We had several wonderful cruises on her, including the 30 day South America trip earlier this year. It was great.

But what I'll really miss is the old HAL business model. The departure of the Statendam is one more step in the transition from smaller ships that emphasized great service to larger and more impersonal vessels with higher density. The switch from the Statendam to the Konigsdam is symbolic of a new HAL strategy. The Konigsdam has almost nothing to offer that the Statendam lacked (at least for things I value), but doubles the passenger load and is likely to give you longer lines, crowded dining, and greater competition for scarce resources, like chairs at the pool or seats in the theater. I'm sad to see HAL go down this road and the loss of the Statendam is another step in this direction.

Thank you for the information. Were they playing traditional ballroom dance music (waltz, tango, rumba, cha cha, etc.) or were they playing easy listening sorts of music (jazz, New York, New York, Mack the Knife etc.)? We're hoping to do some ballroom dancing and I'm wondering if the Maasdam is getting away from that by using other musicians. Thank you.

Has HAL updated its digital workshop to teaching Windows 10? Or are they still teaching 8.1? Thank You.

My husband and I enjoy ballroom dancing and have had a somewhat mixed experience on HAL ships. Most of the time there is decent dancing in the Ocean Bar with the Neptunes, but HAL seems to be changing the structure of its music offerings.

Has anyone been on the Maasdam recently and heard the current music in the Ocean Bar? Is it still a Neptunes trio or have they changed the format?

Are they playing music appropriate for ballroom dancing (waltz, rumba, cha cha, tango, etc.)? Or are they playing American standards and jazz? We've experienced both situations on HAL and they sometimes advertise "ballroom dancing" in the Ocean Bar, but don't play any appropriate music.

Any recent information would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

No- they do not have the attachments for using cycling cleats. They have the old fashioned toe clips that can be used with any shoe, but they do not accommodate SPD (2 or 3 hole) cycling shoes. If you are using a road bike style shoe (Look, Time or SPD-SL), leave them at home. The cleats will just get in the way. If you have a recessed mountain bike style shoe, you could use them, but you cannot attach to the pedals.

Different products? Maybe for some. If you take a guarantee it most certainly is not. Early bookers are committing to the cruise line early. How is wanting it both ways? Shouldn't Hal appreciate it? What if everyone booked at the last minute and they had a empty ship until the end. Yeah, that would work. Same tired old argument.

A guaranteed spot on a future cruise is simply not the same thing as taking a gamble on the price and availability of a place on that cruise. I'm sure HAL does appreciate does appreciate your business. But that doesn't mean they should charge you less than what the market will bear. People are willing to pay more for the security of a guaranteed place. It's just good business to charge what they are willing to pay. I sympathize if you have personal circumstances that prevent you from being flexible and taking advantage of last minute deals, but those are the cruel facts of the marketplace. If you really think there's no difference between buying early or late, then I guess you should wait until the last minute and get one of those bargains. But don't be surprised when things don't work out the way you hoped. You might conclude that the price premium required to get a confirmed spot would have been worth it. A product consists of many attributes, including the timing of the purchase. You can get a great deal on Christmas tree ornaments the day after the holiday, but most people will pay extra to buy them earlier. The same for chocolates and roses after Valentines Day. I don't think it's realistic to complain about others getting a better price because you choose to buy early.

I don't really understand the controversy here.

There are advantages to booking early. You get a guaranteed cabin, price, place on the cruise and all the security of making your plans for flights and vacations.

There are advantages to booking late. You get a shot at a great price, but you take a chance that the price may go up or that the cruise may sell out. You have to hope for the best on flights (which also may be better or worse by waiting).

The people who book early and complain seem to want it both ways. That doesn't make any sense. They seem to miss the fundamental point that an early booking and a last minute booking are two different products. HAL is trying to make a profit. They can't be blamed for charging a premium for a product that the marketplace values at a higher rate. You can't have it both ways. It's perfectly reasonable to choose to book early or to choose to book later. But it's unreasonable to think you should get the advantages of both.

I would generally agree with most if the comments above, but would add a couple of observations. We are somewhat younger than most HAL passengers and have been able to enjoy our cruises, despite some consequences of having mostly "older" people on board.

For us, the biggest negative is the impact of the clintele on excursions. The HAL excursions are designed for people who are not very active or fit. Even the most strenuous ones are very limited if you are used to being very active. Everything happens very, very slowly and you can get quite frustrated with waiting around for other pax to get on and off the bus, make a bathroom stop, go shopping, etc. I don't necessarily blame HAL for this and it is true for all cruise lines to some extent. Weve learned to do private excursions and avoid HAL trips as much as possible. It's amazing how much more you can see if you put some effort into research and do things on your own.

You may also find that shows and music are targeted at an older age group. I enjoy music that is much more contemporary than found on HAL ships. Again, I don't blame them for playing old American standards or music from the fifties, but this material was popular before I was born and I never developed a taste for it.

You can have a great time on HAL shops as long as your expectations are realistic. Give it a try.

Perhaps we should give Holland America a break.

They don't really care what you wear to dinner on Gala Night or any other night. They simply are trying to make a profit and are trying to find a way to please the greatest number of people. The individuals at either extreme (a "truly formal dress code that is strictly enforced" vs. "I'll wear anything I please") are both somewhat guilty of the "it's all about me and what I want" syndrome. I suspect most cruisers are somewhere in the middle. They just want to relax and enjoy a nice dinner and don't really care what others wear.

HAL seems to have concluded that focusing on either extreme is not the most profitable approach. So they are shooting for a middle ground that provides an opportunity for people to dress up without requiring that everybody do so. They are also asking for a little cooperation from the other crowd as well- long pants, collared shirt, etc. This all seems reasonable to me.

I'm on a 50 day cruise this fall and I doubt there will be a big change in the way people dress. We will continue to dress up because we like it. I really don't care what others wear. I hope the new policy will make people more tolerant/open minded about diversity of clothing choices.

I would agree with most of the posts here. These are all mainstream cruise lines and the similarities outnumber the differences. We did the Baltic on HAL and it was fine. There was a time when one could argue that HAL offered higher quality than the others, but that is sadly no longer true. They have been on a cost cutting drive that has reduced them to mainstream status. On the other hand, they do offer some nice bargains if you book late in the game.

In my experience (5 Star on HAL), the biggest issue is the lack of consistency. You can have a wonderful cruise on HAL with outstanding service on one trip and get lousy food, poor stewards and long lines on the next trip. It can happen on any of their ships. We did the Baltic on the Rotterdam in 2012 after taking a South America trip on the same ship 6 months earlier. The first Rotterdam cruise was among the worst HAL trips we've ever had. We booked the Baltic on the Rotterdam with great trepidation and low expectations and we had some of the best food and service HAL has ever given us. Go figure.