Tante Amalie

I always get a chuckle when people complain about not being "rewarded" for their loyalty. As several people have pointed out, the revenue associated with the most loyal customers is actually quite low. We are five star Mariners and we arrange our own private tours, drink very little, don't gamble, never buy photos and spend virtually nothing in the shops. I realize that I am a terrible customer for HAL (even though I have 500+ days of sailing). If you believe BruceMuzzz, HAL is probably losing money on my business and from people like me. They would do better to pay us to stay home.

The real money in cruising is to offer short cruises on huge ships on the cattle car routes. HAL is poorly positioned in this regard and I sometimes wonder if they will be able to survive with their current business model.

I'm surprised that anyone who loves fine food and wine would sail on HAL. There are valid reasons to sail on HAL, but good food and wine isn't one of them. You might as well stay home and visit Red Lobster and Olive Garden.

We've had the minibar overcharging problem occur several times, but it has always been resolved quickly. It's still annoying.

There's no point in arguing about the term "fraud", but it does seem to go beyond the standard of a simple mistake. It creates the impression that HAL (and other cruise lines) are making the same error over and over and not taking any steps to avoid making the same mistake. Perhaps they know from experience that many pax will not notice or simply let it slide? If it's just a few dollars, we don't bother with it either. This is a "mistake" that always works in their favor. I suspect that if the mistake always led to a loss of revenue, they would be more careful.

Impossible to have any idea what will be 15 years from now.

I learned the very hard way in the last year and a half that life/death turns around very quickly while busy making long term plans.

 

Live today; dream about tomorrow; save for what you anticipate you will need but do your living right now while you are able to. Anything in the future will be a bonus. :)

 

Who knows if HAL will even be doing GWV in 15 years? Who knows if there will be a HAL? Who0 knows what cruising will be like? Or if you will like what it is if it exists. So many changes in the last five years, it is impossible to say what changes can come in the next 15.

 

 

Sorry if this just a 'too practical' post but it is how I see things.

Bravo.

Wind speed increases with height. How much windier it would be would depend on which deck you're on.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_gradient

 

 

Yes, and gravity decreases with the distance from the center of the earth. That's why you feel so heavy when you go back to your cabin after a big lunch at the Lido.

I've got the GoPro 3+ and it works very well for scuba. I also purchased a mask with a built in camera mount and it works quite well (the mask is decent too). If you buy something lower than the GoPro 4, it helps to bring along your phone/tablet with the downloaded GoPro App in order to aim the camera before starting your dive. I've done it both ways and the camera is pretty forgiving, but it's nice to see what you're going to shoot before you go underwater.

If it's a shallow dive, I bring along my Panasonic Lumix ts25 underwater point & shoot camera for still photos. That thing is amazing, but it only works in shallow water.

I guess I'm not a big fan of intolerance. That goes for how much they weigh, what religion they practice, the color of their skin, or any other external characteristic. I tried to teach my children that if you pre-judge somebody by some superficial criterion, you may miss meeting your next great friend. That person next to you at formal night who doesn't wear a tie might actually be a very interesting and wonderful person, but I guess you'll never know.

Steve Jobs dressed without ties WAY before he was a billionaire. Perhaps he even had the temerity to show up for a job interview dressed that way. The small minded individual who dismissed him as someone who doesn't know how to dress probably passed on hiring one of the most brilliant minds of our generation.

At least they protected the dress code.

I'll leave the hair splitting and dissection of the sacred HAL policy to those who seem insistent on having the last word. I suspect what's really going on is that HAL hasn't carefully updated all of its documents and web site to make them 100% consistent. That's certainly happened in the past.

Having said that, it seems clear that both HAL and the cruising public are trending towards a more informal atmosphere. This is happening on other cruise lines as well. I have no problem with people longing for the "good old days" of truly formal nights and real gala events. But those days seem to be mostly over now, whether you like it or not. I suspect those who feel that their cruise experience is being spoiled by people who are "not in compliance" might have more fun if they simply accepted the new reality and spent less time worrying about what other people wear.

I get the feeling that a lot of HAL passengers are in denial about this new generation of ships. They seem to think that the new big ships will offer the same cruise experience they have become accustomed to, but in a larger package. I really doubt that will happen. The small ships that many of us love will become a thing of the past and the new ships are likely to be impersonal and crowded. Yes, the new ship will be shiny and modern at first. But that will be small consolation when dealing with crowds and lines once on board. It really surprises me to see excitement about this new class of vessel. I feel sad every time I see an announcement about the K-Dam.

When I first started reading the HAL board just prior to actually joining CC it was right before the Zuiderdam came out. Oh My, I can remember so much complaining and people that were extremely skeptical of the Vista Class ship. Many of the posts are what kept me from almost not booking our 2nd cruise to be our first HAL cruise which was on the Zuiderdam. I am thankful that I took so many of the posts with a grain of salt. :)

Not all of us are fans of the larger Cunard ships or the HAL Vista/Signature classes. My fears were realized for them and the Pinnacle class will take this trend a step further. You will have a large increase in the number of cabins combined with a slight increase in public space. The result is predictable. Some people don't mind waiting in lines or crowding. I wish I were more patient, but those things really bother me on vacation.

If you look at the itineraries for the larger HAL ships, they are quite different from the smaller R/S classes. If that's what you're looking for... great. I try to avoid them if at all possible. I'm at the point in my travel career that I'm looking for exotic and interesting ports. I've been to the standard places multiple times and don't need to keep repeating them.

Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised with the K-dam, but I really doubt it.

That just sounds like a poor excuse to avoid decent wine or to drink plonk.

We live right smack up against the ocean in Fort Lauderdale. The atmosphere on a cruise ship is pretty much the same thing. We have nicer stemware at home, but other than that, it's kind of a wash.

 

I have no idea what on God's green earth blue ocean would make a cruise ship "a horrible environment for appreciation of fine wines." Do you try to drink in the hot tub? Engine room? Lido pool bathroom? ;)

 

If you can get the temperature right, you can enjoy fine wine just about anywhere (except airplanes at high altitude.)

Some day you should try to do a real wine tasting in a controlled environment and you'll see what I mean. In the meantime, please enjoy drinking whatever gives you pleasure.

By today's standards, the K-Dam is a medium sized ship. If your standard of comparison is the mega ships of RCCI, then the new ship is not particularly big. My fear is that this will be the future of HAL. The R and S class ships will be retired through attrition or sales and HAL's fleet will become larger and larger ships over time. This inevitably leads to a lower ratio of public space to cabin space and a general feeling of crowding. Whether you are waiting for a tender, going to the gym, standing in line at the Lido, looking for a seat in the theater or trying to find a lounger at the pool, it all comes down to a feeling of scarcity and competition for limited resources. I don't like to spend my vacation that way.

I've always felt that HAL's strength was offering exotic itineraries on longer cruises. This won't be possible on the new generation of ships. They will have to offer trips for the least common denominator--- like week long Caribbean or Alaskan trips to the same old ports over and over again. It's the only way to keep load factors at a high level. I'm sorry to see HAL move into the cattle call segment of cruising. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

Both my wife and I each carry a corkscrew in our toiletries /bathroom bag. I have a double hinged, waiter style corkscrew. She has a Screwpull pocket style. Both have foil cutters. Even when you're in a Neptune Suite, you're not guaranteed to have a decent wine opener. Be prepared. (If an impromptu wine tasting breaks out, and the host doesn't have an opener, you know who gets the invite? This guy!)

 

Seriously though, the corkage free bottle is for in room consumption. Once you're out in the wild, you're in corkage territory.

 

It's been said that "if you know fine wines, cruise ships are not a good environment." I disagree. If you have the right wines, and you can control the temperature - which is the hard part - cruise ships are a fabulous place to enjoy wine. :D

Not really. Yes, the cruise ship can be a wonderful place for scenery and relaxation. But it is a horrible environment for appreciation of fine wines. Save that for a more controlled environment.

Every time I see an announcement about the K-dam, I feel a twinge of sadness.

Welcome to the future of HAL. Giant impersonal ships that will inevitably be pushed into shorter generic cruises. For those of you who like waiting in lines and being treated like sardines, congratulations on the new Holland America. The rest of us will be busy looking for different cruise lines and a higher quality experience.

I, for one, am quite happy that HAL allows us to bring our own wine onboard and pay a corkage fee.

 

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

Sigh... there is more to this issue than you seem to understand.

I'm happy for you if you accept and happily pay the fee. Please don't be condescending to those who have a different opinion.

You won't have to change cabins, but you are taking a big risk. For reasons unknown to anyone but HAL, there are some very undesirable cabins that have a fairly high category. You could end up in a crappy cabin for a long trip. I don' think it's worth the risk, but that's up to you. You might get lucky and have a good cabin that sells for a higher price than you paid, but you might end up under the MDR or Showroom and spend your entire trip wishing that you had locked in a quiet and comfortable cabin.

The Neptune and Pinnacle suites have access to the services of the concierges in the Neptune lounge, so there is minimal waiting in lines for those passengers. In my experience, the Neptune concierges add a great deal of value to the both the suite and general onboard experience.

True, but on Silversea and other upscale lines, you'll have a personal Butler. They are even more helpful than HAL's concierge (in my experience). Even their smallest cabin is quite large. A suite on HAL does not exempt you from lines in the Lido, lines on excursions, lines for tenders, and a general sense of competing for scarce resources on the ship. They don't reserve special machines in the gym, better seats at the show, or better food in the dining room for suite pax.

We each have to make our own decisions about what gives us value. I'm constantly surprised to see that HAL can justify such high prices for their suites. To answer the question posed by the OP, the HAL suites offer lousy value and are not "worth it".

Obviously, only you can truly judge what's "worth it" to you. But I have to confess that I'm somewhat surprised at the responses to your question. I consider the suites on HAL to be among the worst values in cruising.

They are very big and if you spend most of your time sitting in your cabin, then I guess it might make sense to some people. If you are lucky enough to get one at a last minute bargain, then they make sense. But they are horribly overpriced if bought in advance at normal prices. They are very expensive and the moment you step outside your Cabin, you are on a HAL ship and have the same services, food, crowding and other limitations of a mainstream cruise line. You eat the same food, fight for pool chairs, and stand in the same lines as the passengers in the cheapest inside cabin. It's a terrible value. HAL will provide some "special treatment", but they can't change the fact that you're still on a HAL ship. It's like buying an expensive home in a crappy neighborhood. Your house is nice, but everything else is downscale.

At those prices, you have many options in the cruising market. Unless you are obsessed with having a very large cabin, I believe your money will go farther in the luxury lite or even luxury market. They offer a much higher quality overall cruise experience.

We've had the same experience. It also helps to lubricate the process with a couple dollars when breakfast is delivered.

I wonder how much longer room service will be "free"?

Of course it is a different product....it has different attributes.

 

I do not hear people complaining that they paid full price for a summer dress when they see it on sale in the fall marked down by 50 or 70 percent.

Excellent point.

I think what we see on this board is a classic case of cognitive dissonance. Purchasing a cruise is a large financial commitment. The cheerleaders seem to us this discussion board as a way to rationalize the outlay and convince themselves that they are spending their money wisely.

I sometimes wonder if HAL is making a strategic error by marketing itself as a premium/upscale line. I get the feeling that they are setting themselves up for disappointed clients by creating expectations that they can't meet. There's nothing wrong with being mainstream. But if you tell your customers that they will get a higher quality experience, you better deliver it.

I think some people don't understand the difference in market value for an early booking versus a last minute booking. Why should HAL give away a secured cabin & price many months in advance if that provides people the benefit of locking in air fares on favorable terms? They can (and should) charge whatever the market will bear for this. The proof is that people are willing to pay more for this privilege. An early booking and a last minute booking for the same cruise are not the same product. You might have to pay more to get the early booking. The early booking gives you some options that later customers won't have. Why shouldn't you pay for this?

I guess you can whine and wish HAL would give early customers a better deal. I guess if we are going to do this, I'll wish that HAL should allow me to cruise for free. HAL is going to do what's best for them, whether you like it or not.

That's my point.

You are worried about air fare. So you book in advance. That's perfectly reasonable.

The people who don't have this constraint have the luxury of waiting to see if cruise fares go down. Perhaps they live near the port. Perhaps they are willing to pay a higher air fare in exchange for a lower cruise fare.

The point is that you have chosen to pay a higher cruise rate in exchange for the privilege of locking in a price. THAT CHANGES WHAT YOU ARE BUYING FROM HOLLAND. There is an entire financial market for puts and calls based on this principle. So don't complain about the higher cruise price. You have chosen to pay that price in exchange for the options it gives you for better air fares. If you think it's a bad deal, don't do it. You can't have it both ways.

You are forgetting people that book in advance and take a guarantee. I'm one of those people. You do not save any money by doing that.

No, I'm not forgetting about people like you.

Ask yourself the question- why do you keep booking cruises way in advance if you truly believe that a better deal will come along later?

The answer to that question is the point I'm trying to make. Perhaps you want a guaranteed spot on the cruise, or a guaranteed price, or some other reason that keeps you from waiting for a better deal. Whatever your reasoning is, that's the difference in the product you are buying. If it was truly the same thing, the rational thing would be to wait and buy it at a better price. Obviously, you don't feel that way.