Luckybee

That is because there hasn't been a kayak built that can float a 737.

Lol....my dh would have groaned at this but it just broke me up :)

DO SOMETHING NICE FOR OTHERS AND IT MIGHT HELP YOU FEEL BETTER.

 

On the Royal Caribbean Homepage there is an icon to click that will lead you to a page to contribute to Hurricane Irma relief.

 

They are matching donations up to $1million.

 

(I'm sure some of the negative Nellies are eager to type a rebuttal to this post.):cool:

If im one of the "negative nellies", I think it is great that they are doing this, and what NCL and Royal are doing in terms of those who are stranded on the various islands are doing is also terrific.

One can choose to not like certain policies and like others. Each person for themselves can decide what policies will help them determine who to sail with in the future

My preferred example is the law regarding being on board an airplane for X amount of time.

 

A widely publicized case, brought this on, even when the industry pointed out it only happens a few times a year, out of thousands of flights per DAY.

 

But no, everyone yelled and screamed, so Congress passed a law, requiring the airline to all sorts of things if this were to happen.

 

So the result is, it doesn't happen now. HOORAY. Except that now, if the airline thinks the flight will push anywhere close to that limit due to weather, they CANCEL THE FLIGHT.

 

Oh, and since it was canceled due to weather, they owe you NOTHING, except a later flight. NO meals, NO lodging, NOTHING.

 

That is what regulation does.

 

And many of those having an issue with how the cruise lines are handling Irma, have NO clue as to their lack of rights in airline travel due to weather delays and cancellations.

I guess really it comes down to personal preference. I have been in this situation both pre and post the regulation change and after spending far more time sitting on the tarmac than it would have taken to my destination, only to have the flight attendants over hours, then a further delay arriving 9 hours late for a 2 hour flight....compared to the very civilized rebooking for the next am that we just experienced. I'll take paying for my overnight and meals(although haven't had to in the past). As an aside AC now offers a sort of insurance for this now called "On my Way". Plus if you book with various credit cards such as our Amex then your travel insurance automatically covers the kind of expenses you refer to.

No, that one line lowered their fares and charged for bags. The consumers voted with their dollars by picking the cheapest fare. And then paid as much when they checked bags.

 

So the other airlines followed suit.

 

Except SouthWest, which I have found to be more expensive than the others much of the time. Remember, SW has their own law, requiring quoted fares in advertising to include all taxes and fees. They used to quote just the airfare portion, which seemed low. Also, there is a REASON SW is not on Kayak, Priceline, etc. :)

That is interesting....I think it must depend on where you fly out of. Dh and I are in Canada between Toronto and Buffalo. If we are doing domestic or Caribbean always without any exception Southwest is by far our best bet compared to any of the other carriers both in terms of price, and policies. As an example just last week was booking flights to Orlando for April. We have a ton of points with Aeroplan( Air Canada's frequent flyer program) and we have a credit with JetBlue which I had intended to use. The cost for our trip on SWA at $109 usd ea way was less expensive than the cost of taxes and fees if we were to use our points out of Toronto. On a cash basis, they were far less than every other carrier by at least $150 per person usd each way, and using the credit on jet blue (which is only $200) would have left us paying and extra $159 ea so not a smart proposition out of Buffalo, and out of Toronto there was no reasonable comparison at all.

Can you point to any cruise contract with any cruise line that says the ship will be sea worthy?

 

The choice is thus not to find a cruise line that promises a sea worthy vessel, but to decide if you want a cruise vacation at all.

 

 

I have not looked at them, but I suspect hotels on land do not have contracts with customers that provide for habitable rooms, free from mold, vermin, insects, etc.

No the choice is to look at past performance and ask yourself whether you are prepared to take a chance with a company who does not have a proven positive track record in these situations versus another who does. If you are satisfied with the way Royal had handled this you should have no concerns, and if you are not there are at least 2 companies that handled this differently. So we all have future choices to make :)

And regarding your hotel example.....we once received a room at a 5* resort that had some pretty serious issues ( Merv Griffins paradise island before Atlantis took over) and they refunded our stay, and brought us back for 4 nights at the Ocean Club on them.

Again, that is what insurance if for. I would check your insurance policy. If it is 2 separate policies, then you might be screwed. I know the policy I bought for my family of four for next year has provisions that if any one of us is unable to make it for covered reasons (flights cancelled would count), we can get our full fares back.

Im going to try not to beat a dead horse, but if you've been reading these threads you realize that not everyone has insurance, and of those who do some are finding that not everything is covered(including at least one poster on this thread), and finally and imho to me it shouldn't matter. The bottom line is the cruiseline is not providing the product that the consumer purchased. In that equation whether one does or does not have insurance doesn't/shouldn't matter .

If Mr. and Mrs. Smith have that many complications involved in scheduling a vacation they should probably avoid planning cruises in hurricane season in the first place.

Well I partly agree with you if you are only talking about booking with Royal....unlike Mr and Mrs Smith in my example dh and I book our holidays at least a year in advance since we are self employed and logistics require us to do so. As I said in another thread I can pretty much tell you where we will be and when right up to the first quarter of 2019. Would I book a cruise in Hurricane season....not with Royal, but I'd have no qualms booking with the cruise lines that I think have treated their customers in a manner that I think is fair...matter of fact we're booked with HAL for November 11th of next year which albeit later is still in hurricane season( mind you we have Royal to thank for that booking but that is another story :) .

Maybe Mr and Mrs Smith can only take holidays in the summer because they have 2 school age children. My point was there are so many variables in each individuals life and I try ( not always successfully to consider that not everyone may be in the situation as we are, or have the same finances etc.)

And your insurance should cover that, plain and simple. That is what insurance is for. If you decided to not buy an insurance policy, then you are still having your insurance cover it, but you are self insured, so you are covering it.

 

Additional cost for a different flight is part of the risk you took to cruise during this time of year.

I think you missed the part about how there was only 1 seat available out of 3 different carriers and 2 different airports .

I guess if it were me....I could go and leave dh at home (but it wouldn't make for a happy hubby....lol)

Right now, most people are simply speculating they will not be able to get there and don't want to accept the current offer. That is different than people being physically unable to get there.

It isn't speculation....out of curiosity (and wanting to have a vague idea of what Im talking about) I took a look at Southwest and Delta (admittedly just 2 of the more popular carriers) and from what Im seeing good luck finding a flight. From our location availability out of Buffalo....I then looked out of Toronto....could get flights for one person only (at a cost of $1100) per ticket when normally it is less than half.

It is easy for those of us, from the comfort of our homes, or offices to talk about how one "could" get there, but not so easy for those who cant find flights, or hotels, or cant afford the much higher costs involved.

If you signed a contract that said you were paying 12$ for a dozen eggs, and if we cannot give you 12, we will discount the cost to cover the difference (say a bumpy road made 6 of the crack on the way to deliver, and they then refunded $6). While you did not get the full $12, you are getting refunded the portion you were missing.

But they are not refunding the difference, they are providing a credit of the difference to those who take the shortened cruise, and for those who don't a credit for what they spent. Already there are some on the boards who have said they cannot find cruises to fit there schedules, costs etc with those credits.

Let me give you examples....lets say Mr and Mrs Smith booked one of the affected cruises. They both had to get time off work and to do so they need to request same 6-12 months in advance. Then it takes a month for the employers to ok their time off and by the time they go back and forth they cant book within the 60 days needed. Or lets say they saved and saved to be able to afford this cruise and now the price for the same cruise next year is more than they can afford. Or this cruise was a special occasion, like a honeymoon or anniversary and they cant get another cruise now with Royal but instead they want to fly to Jamaica or Aruba because they want a 7 day holiday not a 4 day one, which after all is what they booked in the first place.

Isn't the cruise line delivering their product? If you choose the shortened product, you are being refunded for a portion of your cruise. If you are not able to make it, you are receiving a full refund to use on a future cruise.

 

And yes, the cruise line chose to offer the cruise during hurricane season, but no one made the consumer book it.

 

Take some responsibility. You booked a cruise during the height of hurricane season. And you're surprised when a hurricane disrupts your vacation? The strongest hurricane to ever be in the Atlantic just demolished plenty of places and people are upset they're not getting whatever they think they should get. It amazes me how much some people complain when there are people who lost their lives, and all of their possessions and people are upset because the cruise line is doing more than they have to but people want more (direct quote from someone here). You're either getting a refund, or you're getting a discount and FCC. No one is cheating you out of anything.

No all these cruisers are not getting a refund....nowhere in any definition of refund does it include a credit. Big difference between the two....sort of like , as an example, the difference between virtually every other cruise lines handling of this situation and Harvey's as compared to Royal !

definition of refund :

re·fund1

verb

verb: refund; 3rd person present: refunds; past tense: refunded; past participle: refunded; gerund or present participle: refunding

rəˈfənd,ˈrēˌfənd/

1. 1.
   pay back (money), typically to a customer who is not satisfied with goods or services bought.
   "if you're not delighted with your purchase, we guarantee to refund your money in full"
   synonyms:repay, give back, return, pay back More"we will refund your money if you're not satisfied"
    
    
    
   reimburse, compensate, recompense, remunerate, indemnify
   "they refunded the subscribers"
    
    
    
    
    
   
   • pay back money to (someone).
     "I'll refund you for the apples and any other damage"
      
      
     

noun

noun: refund; plural noun: refunds

ˈrēˌfənd/

1. 1.
   a repayment of a sum of money, typically to a dissatisfied customer.
   "you are entitled to reject it and insist on a refund"
   synonyms:repayment, reimbursement, rebate "a full refund
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
   

All three lines showed how they will handle this situation if/when it happens again. It appears Royal will stick to what the contract says while Carnival and NCL will not. Consumers can now add those decisions to their "pros/cons" list when they decide on their next choice of cruise lines.

 

However, I'm guessing in about a month most people will forget about this decision. Even those it directly affected (like the OP) are likely to decide based on all the other differences (cost, itinerary, amenities, etc). RCI will probably lose a couple customers over this, but I think they'll be readily replaced.

I agree...and we as consumers can may the choice. Knowing what I know now and seeing the options we would never now book with Royal anytime from June until November, and the rest of the time it would have to be very enticing to consider them for a cruise at all. By enticing I don't mean simply financially but rather I mean getting something we cant get somewhere else. I hate their new policy on non refundable suite deposits too but unfortunately I do like their ships.

But generally you might be right as well that many will simply forget and it will have no effect. The difference is because we are not regular "cruisers" in the sense that we travel more land based we are not "tied" to one particular cruiseline so we are not perhaps the market Royal most wants.

For us it means we've booked two other cruises now (including 1 today....) and neither will be with RCCL.

I am in my 50s... and I have done two river cruises, and I loved both of them. I guess I am just a bit more open minded....

 

I have to agree with you we need to rewrite maritime law, and make it so, that if the cruise lines ever do something like this again, that we put them on the rack... those medieval monks had it so figured out.

 

Lower expectations are sucky... yet RCI has flowriders and Ifly and bumper cars, and all sorts of things that no other cruiseline offers. We need to go back to the days of the Titantic, where most people were in the bowels and the upper crust could dine in style.... we need to equalize the experience we all live in the bowels....

 

JC

LOL...I don't know that I would go that far.....maybe just stoning at dawn ;)

Seriously though, for me I really don't car about bumper cars, flow riders and the like (not that Im getting older, which I am but this kind of stuff was never my thing) but I do love having a great variety of restaurants on board. I personally would be willing to pay for better cs though Im not so naïve to believe that most would agree.

Ever been to a restaurant and have the waiter come back and say "I'm sorry but we're out of the dinner you ordered?" Do you get up and leave or do you order something else?

 

 

 

 

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That depends ! Are they offering me a different main course, or appetizer, or are they suggesting I have tapas instead ? If I went expecting to have dinner and was told I could only have a snack I wouldn't be staying.

But to take it one step further...there is a pizza place near where I live that offers a package that one can purchase in advance for x number of pizzas over a year. If I bought the package and then ordered my first pizza and they said sorry we only have chicken wings now, darn right I'd expect my money back.

I've actually been in that situation once in FLL. I don't recall which hurricane it was, but FLL was trashed the week before departure - hotels weren't open but flights had resumed on Friday, the day before our cruise. Delta let us change our flight at no charge to come in the on day of the cruise. If hotels aren't open in FlLL I would imagine the airlines will allow changes.

With what will likely be some pretty inconsistent scheduling that would be pretty risky no? As an example using Delta they say on their website that they expect impact to flights and cancellations until September 17th.

Ok, but sometime the ship will be sailing and a lot of people will want to be on board, and I bet the sooner the better for most of them.

 

I don't really know of any similar industry to a giant cruise ship, but ok.... O, I tthought of one. The dirigible industry which pretty much died with the Hindenburg.

 

You might want to check out the river cruise forum. It might give you a different opinion of RCI and the ocean cruise industry in general. Look for cruises with low water, and in particular Viking cruises, where instead of a lovely river cruise you get a bus trip in Europe and get to sleep on stationary river cruise boats... Happens routinely.... when the water is low or high....

 

JC

Happening routinely doesn't make it right .

And ty for telling me. I'll have to make sure I never ever book a river cruise :)

It may be an age thing. I honestly believe we get the customer service we deserve and are willing to pay for. Im in my 50's and can actually recall when we had real customer service not just cruise specific. Part of the problem is that many today really don't know what cs used to be like and have much lower expectations and imho it's sad. The more people accept mediocre the more it will happen but I guess if one doesn't understand the difference it may seem perfectly acceptable.

St Marteen is destroyed.

 

 

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Exactly right. We have done a number of land trips to SXM and were just there for 3 weeks in May. Out of the 3 properties we stayed at 1 has said no reservations probably until mid next yr, another is somewhat ok, and haven't been able to get much info at all on the 3rd. The damage is huge and widespread. Our friends living on the island have only been able to sporadically contact anyone.

If you genuinely wish to see how SXM is doing try traveltalk dot com on the st marten bd. There is imho a zero chance of any cruise ships getting back there for months. It'll be that long for some to even have basic necessities restored.

You posted it as if it was a fact. As long as you now concede it was just an opinion, and a wrong one, then at least we have been able to agree on something. Since, it was originally supposed to prove your point, and to end the discussion. It is childish to accept "facts" when we all know they are just opinions.

 

I think I said somewhere back in one of my first posts on this thread, that nobody, including the talking heads on TV, RCI, or you actually know where the storm will strike and what will be damaged. I am merely opineing that we all take specific storm track warnings with a great leap of faith, and that believing said predictions we are likely to be wrong more times than we are right.

 

Yours is no disgrace.... quoting Yes.

 

JC

Everyone is entitled of course to an opinion. Having watched some of the coverage on tv today mine certainly hasn't changed. To invite passengers to travel into a hurricane area in order to make a cruise imho was not appropriate. The eastern coast may have missed the brunt of the storm(cept one wouldn't know that by looking at the flooding coverage of downtown Miami)....but Royal certainly couldn't have known the direction the storm was going to take (esp since their weather guy hasn't exactly been dead on accurate to say the least).

In no other industry does a company get away with not providing a service/product contracted for and not having to refund. A 4 day cruise is not pure and simple the same product as a 7 day one....and that is a fact not an opinion.....and in my opinion they should have to refund when they change the product that dramatically and the purchaser does not want the new product.

Thank you, but there have been at least two others who have mentioned her condescending posts. She knows more than anybody (just ask her) and she is not shy about pointing that out to anyone who disagrees with her. Basically she is entitled her opinion, and so is everyone else entitled to her opinion.

 

In my opinion she would make a good politician. I'm not saying that she would be good at any job she was elected to (to be fair, maybe she would), but she sure would make a very good politician. I can't truthfully tell you what I thing about politicians without getting a time out.

I don't spend much time generally on these boards since we do many more land based holidays than cruises, but I recently had the pleasure ;p of dealing with this poster as well. I quickly came to the realization that it is far better to ignore as it is abundantly clear that most of this appears to be for the sole purpose of self entertainment. Honestly, having now seen her/him ? in action in a few threads it seems that the reason for posting is only to be controversial because some of their posts are just so argumentative that they border on irrational. We all know people who for one reason or another will automatically say black when you say white, or sunny when you say cloudy even though it is pouring rain. Imho for me anyway, my professional life is such that I deal with that on a regular basis so Im ignoring during an activity that I don't get paid for :)

Life is too short to do otherwise !

I wonder whether, on the issues themselves, whether you agree with me or with him? I bet there is a correlation there. Regardless, this is all of topic meta discussion. Let's get back to the topic and agree to disagree.

 

Without any doubt.

Honestly no correlation whatsoever. I happen to find your posting to him extremely condescending, somewhat like yours to me just now. You make a comment taking the entire thread off topic, then you decide after you get called out on it, that everyone should "get back to the topic" . I'm sorry but until you began to make personal comments, the topic imho was quite civilized and respectful and was on topic !

When I read this, your response to Caribill, it reminded me of the old proverb 'There are none so blind as those who will not see'. You may not realise that virtually every post of yours is pompous and many are also patronising! ;)

Thank you for saying what I, and others I suspect didn't have the nerve to say. I am not a frequent poster and generally try to stay out of pettiness as I have better things to do :)

I know neither of these posters but I can certainly say that nothing in Caribells posts in this thread came anywhere near being as offensive as this post by BUU was.

Absolutely right....we all get caught up in talking about cruising but the message from the op is what we should be concerned with. Good luck to all affected and stay safe :)

I feel for you. I'm not cruising until Nov/Dec but supposed go to St Martin and Thomas twice on my B2B2B2B's. Unfortunately this is nothing new, cruise lines do this almost every yr, be it ship with Mechanical issues or weather: Harvey, Mathew, Sandy. Ships stay out extra 1-3 days, next one sails short those days and get them prorated usually with offer like now, sometimes not. Couple storms had ships sailing on cruise to nowhere, all sea days. They usually never cancel. Been cruising 30 yrs and had over dozen times at least one port change for all, can't remember ever getting any $ for changes. One thing do remember is yrs ago if ship missed a port they didn't even give you the Port Tax back.

Im not personally affected as you can see by my earlier posts...just feels wrong to me to put people in danger the way Royal is doing and Im quite empathetic towards those who are in this position

You do realize the contract that you agreed to gives Royal Caribbean the right to alter itinerary as needed, right? Per the contract they zero obligation to give any refunds, and there's not much you can do about it. I appreciate that it is frustrating for a lot of people, but Royal Caribbean also has the expectation that you will honor the contract you agreed to and they're offering much more than they are required to per the contract. If you are so inflexible in your schedule, I would recommend buying a form of "cancel for any reason" insurance, in which case the insurance company would reimburse you a portion of your fare in cash, not Future Cruise Credit. Especially if sailing during hurricane season.

 

Depending on how this storm goes there's a chance they completely cancel the sailings, in which case full refunds would be issued.

There is a big difference between an "alteration" of an itinerary and a complete repudiation of the contract. I would argue that an alteration would include a change of ports and perhaps a slight modification to the number of days. A change that takes a cruise from a 7 day one to a 3 or 4 day cruise is not an alteration nor a modification. It is a change that completely alters the nature of the product purchased.

The more interesting argument from your point of view may be the act of god provisions that they might be able to stand behind.

Neither defense however eliminates their moral responsibility which is a whole different animal and will effect how good/bad they are seen as a corporate citizen, and imho they are not standing out as a shining star .

Yes, but they're giving people a choice.

 

1 - sail a shortened sailing. You will receive 50% of what you paid as a refundable on board credit and 50% as a future cruise credit. You're essentially getting.free 4 or 5 day cruise (obviously you'll spend something on board).

 

2 - decide not to sail and receive 100% of what you paid as a future cruise credit.

 

They are not forcing anyone to travel to Florida or sail on the 12th or 13th.

 

Some people, like the OP, are just complaining that that they just don't get a complete cash refund like those folks who's cruises have been cancelled.

You do realize that not everyone has the luxury of flexibility and/or the ability to change dates, or take additional vacations. Dh and I are both self employed in a profession that requires us to book our holidays at least a year in advance. I can tell you today which holidays we are taking, and when right up until the end of 2018 and into the beginning of 2019. If I had to sit down and look at dates where we both would be available between now and the end of 2018 I might be able to find a week or two but Im skeptical that I could. A one year credit wouldn't work well for us.

Others perhaps cant afford higher prices, for some it may be a honeymoon and they might instead want to go when it is their honeymoon and not 6 months late. I could go on and on with a myriad of reasons. Fact is a 7 day cruise was booked. This isn't simply a change in itinerary, but a complete change of cruise and if the product having been contracted for is no longer available they should be getting their money back. Add to that in order to even get the new product the passenger needs to pt their lives in danger imho its a no brainer that refunds need to be offered.