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Hi FT
With your considerable experience with SD, don't you think that there is some missing information in this story? While it is true that SeaDream does some things we don't always think are logical, I actually don't think that they are so stupid as to give a letter to all of the passengers offering an additional discount, and then renege on the deal. That seems a little beyond reality....... CC reality maybe.
cheers to you.
Hello again -
Yes, prior to last year's cruise with unruly children I would have said the same - that SD would make up for its mistakes. In the past when a cruise was cancelled for a charter, SD made us whole with full reimbursement of fare and all non refundable costs, including hotel and airfare upon submission of proof. I was on that same crossing with you and the dry dock bankruptcy. On another voyage, when I was injured on an excursion due to the fault of the excursion operator/unsuitability of equipment used, SD refunded the cost of that excursion. On another voyage with some huge issues caused by other passengers, SD offered a significant discount on a future voyage. But last year - when the pool was unusable for most of the voyage due to children and multiple complaints - SD went dead silent. Nothing. We had a very expensive but unpleasant week while those causing the unpleasantness paid much less than we did and SD never even apologized for the failure to enforce the rules of behaviour. So yes, I think there has been a change. Do I think a refund of port fees is sufficient for missing ports when SD knew that the mechanical issues would make those ports not reachable due to distance? No, I don't. Do I think a letter saying only 2 ports would be missed, when all ports were missed and only the port fees reimbursed is the right thing to do? No. Somebody at SD should have been able to calculate distances.
If Carnival had done the same thing - this would be all over CC and the news. In my business we don't treat our customers that way. And I don't think its the right thing to do. I am not going to speculate as to the reason - but something has changed and it is not in the passenger's favor.
If SD offered everyone the ability to cancel without penalty and make whole for non refundable costs and we don't know, then yes, I have judged them unfairly and I will apologize all over the place.
FT
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Here we go again with the active imagination Chicken Little brigade. Commodore, in making your financial assessment, are you aware that the ships are both paid off ? SeaDream is debt free . This was proudly announced by the Captain on a not long ago voyage. Not a bad position for a company to be in actually.
As to the theory that ongoing maintenance is an issue, as was put forward recently ( pointing to the soon demise of the company), and based on a smell of sewage, this is an issue that goes back to the days of Sea Goddess. It happens every once in a while, and then goes away. Sometimes you detect it briefly in a corridor, sometimes on the Starboard side by the pool deck. Although it fits nicely into the theory that SeaDream is falling apart, anyone who has spent more than a week on the ship knows that it has always been a sporadic event.
Don't panic. Call me what you like, but I for one am not at all concerned about having my deposits on future voyages.
When I go for my vacation, I go because I enjoy the casual atmosphere and top notch service offered by SeaDream. There are aspects and company policies I perhaps don't agree with, but I ignore what I don't like in favor of what I do like. I don't need to know every detail about the company nor the owner to enjoy my time onboard.
I was once kicked off a cruise long in advance when it was chartered. SeaDream happily paid our airline change fee. A few years ago, the departure city of the crossing was changed due to a dry dock bankruptcy. Again SeaDream paid for our necessary flight and hotel changes.
When I board in a few weeks, it will be with the assurance that the ports are so close, one engine is more than enough to get me from island to island (where I will remain on board anyway)
The April crossing is another thing, but if for some reason the engine is not fixed, I have ZERO concern that SeaDream will not handle the situation with the same professionalism as in the past.
We were also told that the ships were going to be refit with brand new engines at the next drydock, but what one hears over dinner isn't exactly "official" news.
I toast you all with my half FULL glass of champagne.
Would you still feel the same if you missed all your scheduled ports and were refunded nothing but your port fees even though SD promised in writing a 35% discount on a future cruise?
FT
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I think that is more hype.. Understanding that this engine broke Nov 9th. Our sailing after the be captain boarded who I think was Byrne.. There was a huge bang in the night and I mean huge, we has been slapped for days but this was different. Our next stop which was only a few miles was canceled ..laramanna to punta ****a.
I think the only reason we did not stop was if the 2nd engine went out ,we would be on the front page nationally . I will be interested to see how many stops and how fast sd1 goes on her journeys. Also noticed that Pam officially resigned which is not good for sd , she had an impeccable reputation
janieab,
You are right in that this is not an "overnight fix" I would love to hear how they actually got the part on the yacht. It's not an easy install. There is testing required so this engine will likely not be functioning for some time. Yes the yacht is safe and operational so long as the one remaining engine functions but until no 2 comes back on board then captain cannot outrun bad weather as easily as before. Hopefully all goes well but until a passenger on board confirms no 2 is functioning, I won't believe anything. After all SD still has yet to honor your Dec 24 letter- right?
FT
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One comment just on location, the Sheraton Rio is fairly isolated and it really isn't safe for non natives to walk from the Sheraton to a better beach (their's is not very good) or to local shopping. As a frequent traveler to Brazil for work I always stay in the LeBlon area. Ipanema is also safe and there are great hotels. No issues with exploring the neighborhood during the day and the beaches are great. But please be careful, there is a lot of protests in Brazil right now, especially in Rio, I always check with hotel personnel about the planned protests before venturing out. And if I am out at night I have arranged dedicated transportation through the hotel or my office.
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If anyone is interested in the details of a crankshaft replacement, here's a link to a pretty good article. I'm sure the reason for failure was very different, but even the non-engineer I am could understand. I assume if repairs begain in Puerto Rico, SDI did not have to be hoisted out of the water. Would have been very interesting in watching them get new crankshaft onto ship. If anyone took pictures, please post.
http://www.marinediesels.info/repairs/crankshaft_replacement_3.htm
FT
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The cruises director said he was instructed by Miami... We wrote on board but are still waiting to hear ... Everyone agrees staff, crew and passengers Miami has communication . The contract excludes negligence .
Also can not bullet proof against misrepresentations which depending on facts could also be fraud.
FT
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Well, that sounds pretty clear to me! And what reason did they give for not honoring it on board???? OH, BOY!
Vandrefalk
Hi Karen,
Yes, I understand the contract tries to be bullet proof
However the letter could be treated as a modification.
Just my opinion
fT
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The discount was for future bookings not the Jan 4 booking
janieab,
You are a kinder and more flexible person than me. Had I received the dec 24 letter as described I likely would have cancelled and demanded full refund and reimbursement for all non refundable expenses- eliminating 2 ports "for routine maintenance" is something totally within SD's control, not something to be shrugged off as bad seas or a port decisions or political country development.
And had we missed all stops due to an engine issue known to SD before I boarded I would be seeking a full refund. I would be arguing that they did not deliver as promised even in the Dec 24 letter and that now takes them out of the safety of all their exclusions in their carriage contract and subjects them to US law. This is so different than how they have handled serious issues in the past. Price to our last cruise with children we had received full compensation for cancelled due to charters and acceptable partial refunds/obc/ future discounts due to other on board issues.
sorry to those who view this as rabble rousing, but my personal opinion mirrors those of several others and perhaps is even stronger. I am a former hard core SD cheerleader, even an addict and I still think the on board crew is the best service team in the world, but SD is in crisis mode and either doesn't know it or doesn't know how to handle. If SD were larger, this would be front page cruise industry news and a lot more questions would be being asked right now.
FT
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Just got off sd1, engine still broken , 6 knots , no stops except for la Ramana to allow captain to get off to leave on vacation. Advised that the normal hotel was too busy to accommodate and other areas too dangerous to travel to. 6 days at sea being tossed like a salad spinner .. Staff was great, massage great except masseuse had to leave to throw up... It's being renamed seanightmare... It was an adventure bit bit what was promised! More later
sorry to hear that. Look forward to more details.
FT
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I bet they wish it was only a propeller issue.
So true.
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I don't know about knowing a LOT about engines but as a retired ship Captain I have had the exact scenario on a tank ship on which I worked. A twin engine ship, we lost one engine (crankshaft) and proceeded to work several months on one engine while the other was repaired while underway. You do not have to compensate oil but there are severe penalties in the oil business for delayed shipment or missed ports. Once all the parts are available, the parts and a crew of diesel technicians were flown to the ship. They sailed with us for the entire duration of the repair. This is what will happen when they have all the parts for SDI's engine. Let me correct one of your statements. Frequent Traveler (the "Volvo Penta guy") is a girl.:eek: She is a corporate attorney for Volvo. Do not make her mad calling her a guy!:eek::D Just kidding, Teresa is a great shipmate. Lots of fun at the TOY Bar.:D The Caribbean should be ok as the distances between ports are short. If it is not fixed by the Transatlantic, I fear that will cause some expensive delays along the line. Hope they get it handled asap.
It takes a lot more than this to get me mad :) I consider being the " Volvo Penta guy" a great honor but having worked with boat builder it's not simple when you switch models. Let's hope SD finds a stash of parts somewhere.
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The Jan 4th trip has gone from 4 ports to 2 ports and we are now 4 days at sea.
They offered our money back, but we are stuck with airfare. Sea Dream should discount the trip, but instead offer a future discount. Not fair.
Did SD not offer you the non refundable air also? In the past they have done that. I would push for that. They are not able to deliver due to their own ability to maintain. This is not missing ports due to high seas or weather which is beyond SD control. I would request my airfare refund too. Good luck
FT
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Very interesting info Jim. Your attention to detail leads me to believe you know a LOT about engines. So here's a question to ponder. We have SD1 in the Caribbean, and she departs in April for London and mv SD2 will still be in Asia. How long will THAT crossing take? And geez, what if they DONT find a part? I think the Volvo Penta guy might be spot on. Let's get this ship in top form!
I would not be getting on a ship with only one engine for a crossing. And I can't believe reputable management would permit. The risks are too great if something else fails. IF they locate a crankshaft at least one voyage will be interrupted for the repair. If they don't locate sending across the Atlantic w/o SD II close by is not reasonable. As someone in the marine finance industry, unless SD locates a source for parts or is willing to spend for the machine toolery to manufacture otherwise obsolete parts, SD faces some tough choices and needs to start making full disclosure to its customers. I hate to say this- I love the personnel on board from top to bottom and many in management, but this appears to have been some huge lack of planning. How can you not have replacement parts for key components? Sorry, but the yacht will never be in top form as old as it is. Good sailing condition maybe, but top physical condition no. We all have lived with the plumbing and cooling issues, lack of room service because we love the SD family and on board service. But obsolescence has to be dealt with, and if not,bluntly SD will not exist in its current form
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Yes, they are horribly expensive. As far as I know, SD II has her original engines. Just an example, you can easily spend in excess of $100,000 to put a pair of Caterpillar diesels in a 60' sportfisherman. The engines in a ship the size of SeaDream are very large and extremely expensive. I do not know the exact model Wartsila diesel in SDI but they could easily weigh in excess of 10 tons each. Not only would an engine be changed, and they are usually changed in pairs so as to have the same output both sides, but also would be new reduction gears, new controllers (for throttle & clutch) and new electronics (gauges, computer controls, wiring harnesses, etc.). Then there is the problem of access. Usually, changing out a ship engine involves extensive steel work. Ship engines are normally intended to last the working life of the ship (with periodic overhauls). Most likely access for removal and installation of a new engine would be where the stack and exhaust risers are. Unless there is a hatch under the teak decking and corresponding hatches in other decks down to the engine space, the most common way is to cut the stack off, remove all exhaust piping etc. enlarge this open column if necessary then perform all the necessary engine work and reverse the process and build new decking, exhaust, stack, etc. On SeaDream, the engines are under the Dining Room and Main Salon. As you might guess, this is a big deal and takes considerable time out of service. I doubt they would go to this much expense/trouble in a 30 year old ship. So, this leaves an extensive search for an existing part. We will have to wait and see what the future holds for SD I.
Jim,
Of course you have probably forgotten more about engines than I will ever know, but my Company's Penta division also makes marine engines and gen sets. The cost to retrofit with new technology has sold many more new boats and consigned old ones to floating hotels, casinos, and apartments in recent years.
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JIm,
as always enjoyed your reveiew. We really miss the SD family. Was at Iguassu Falls in Brazil\Argentina over the weekend and it was hot,hot,hot. I have never been here in the summer so I was really surprised. Wish i could remember the location of the 4 Seasons we held a corporate event in Costa Rica - it was wonderful and terrific excursions. Totally different than what your experience seems to have been. Our dealers raved about it. But like you said - the SD experience on board is the whole reason for sailing SD, at least when the children are under control.
FT
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Enjoyed the postings -checked daily for updates. Glad to hear nothing but good news about crew, especially with recent hurricane. Thanks and glad that SD has added experienced CAD and resource for going through Canal.
FT
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Thanks for checking in, Vandrefalk!
Sounds like the group of Brazilians that was on our first SeaDream cruise. They were pretty obnoxious. Glad they were given a talking to.
I speak a bit of Portuguese and it's amazing once people speak a common language. We started out with problems on our 2012 voyage but after explaining expectations, everything went smoothly.
FT
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Well, Jim, not James - have you been on SD since they changed to dark blue jammies? Assuming there have no changes since last summer. I like those much better than the replacement blue and white. the original blue and white were very very nice, but then when they changed suppliers, the material was low grade and not nearly as soft or substantial. But the dark blue are wearable, especially in the winter but oh, yeah, I forgot you now live where there are no winters!
FT
P.S. Safe travels, have fun, and after all the grief you give everyone else on board, there better be detailed daily postings :)
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This is not an Andreas only decision - its a business decision, and since the company is privately owned, with as far as we know, only one stockholder, the decision should have been made and published a long time ago. What Andreas' initial posting did do was quiet the angry/irritated/pessimistic posters - so mission accomplished. no longer holding my breath and booking other holidays since we are limited to school holidays.
FT
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As Blake Shelton says, Another week has come and gone . . . And I want to go home. Home to SD. Unlike some others I don't need a strict ban on children but an enforcement of behavior rules or both them and their parents are kicked off at the next stop, regardless of how big the group is, who they know, or how often parents sail SD. Limits on the number of under 13 would be a nice add but not required. But when a crew member's response to a misbehaving child is "but the child paid full fare" something is terribly wrong.
But I am most disappointed by time lapse from 1st posting promising response from SD. Never over promise and under deliver in business. This lapse coupled with Ms. Conover's departure and press language that operations were being consolidated in Oslo indicates uncertainty. Maybe all will be for the good. James Cabello has been in Norway for a while and he is pragmatic and extremely customer oriented. He's moved from CAD to a VP. I can't think of a better person to work with. But as to the future on this issue, action speaks and no action says a lot.
FT
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Great post. When we were on SD in August we heard about several crew with families hit by a smaller storm then. We slipped money to several in need. As regulars know many crew from there are related or at least live in same neighborhoods often just blocks apart. Perhaps SD should open a charity drive to help the crew. We would gladly contribute and I know others would as well.
If they would post on website and Andreas could let us know how to contribute, there are quite a few lurkers also. Great idea. I have just e mailed an exec at SD asking if anyone had been affected and what could be done beyond contributions to international relief efforts. I will post if I learn anything.
Teresa
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Yes, very sorry to have posted a bad link. The same article now has today's date.
Apparently, the glass factory is struggling a bit. http://www.na24.no/article3684144.ece
But porcelain business is doing well http://www.ta.no/nyheter/article6838782.ece
Assuming these dates are accurate :)
FT
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&u=http://www.na24.no/article3684144.ece&prev=/search%3Fq%3Datle%2Bbrynestad%26client%3Dsafari%26hl%3Den
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Assume those on this thread saw other thread about SD owner filing for bankruptcy same day Pam resigns as CEO. Not good news of course. Am trying to find out status of ships now and as to future voyages as we have funds on deposit not to mention those of you departing sooner. Please do not blame the messenger, just wanted folks to know to check it out on their own.
Do not worry as to voyages now nor in immediate future. There is no mention of SD filing for BK. As a financial services attorney working in international matters, while I have no personal knowledge everything I read indicates SD itself has been making money and speculation has been that excess cash has been pulled to support other ventures. That's why there won't be a new ship.
People put negative cash flow ops into Bk all the time to reorg, sale., or liquidate while keeping profitable ones open.
Personally, I'd buy trip insurance going forward just to be safe
FT
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Ok, my Norwegian is a bit rusty. What is the gist of the article, Counselor?:D
Maybe this will work And CG holdings USED to be the parent of SD. According to old press articles it was transferred to another company, not one of the 3 now in BK. Fascinating stuff.
FT
Engine Update?
in SeaDream Yacht Club
Posted
The repair can be done while the yacht is underway. It would likely be faster if done while in dry dock but SD would lose revenue for taking the yacht out of service. I am really surprised they were able to get the new crankshaft on board while in San Juan. Typically for a boat that size a hoist is required and the dock for SD didn't seem equipped nor did SD have an obvious place of entry above water. If all goes well, SD I could be back to full speed by the crossing. But there are a lot of variables. And it would be a miracle if the repairs are completed within 3 weeks from the date of commencement.