mcloaked

The whole issue of dress code especially on formal/gala nights has been a pretty contentious one for some time - people enjoy being part of a group - young folk going to a disco would expect that most would wear a general theme for clothing, generally very casual but also having a style that is hoped would look cool - if you turned up in a dinner suit to a disco for a group of 20 somethings you would look very much out of place!  Equally if you turn up at a Gala Evening on a ship where most people are wearing smart evening dresses, and dinner suits with bow-ties, then you would look pretty out of place in torn jeans and a t-shirt.  Of course there is always someone who wants to make a point that they can wear styles that are very different to most others in a group - but generally those people going to a formal evening are dressing up because it looks smart and creates a different atmosphere compared to when people dress casual and people enjoy doing it.  There are cruises where there are no formal nights or dress codes at all - and there is plenty of choice concerning the various cruise lines to suit most tastes - big ships/small ships - quiet gentle ships/loud big entertainment ships and so on.  Many people choose to go on the cruises where formal nights have the majority dressing up because they like dressing up for the evening - If I was someone who didn't like that then I would go on a cruise where it wasn't required - so it shouldn't be a problematic issue at all.  

If it is sweltering hot weather then being dressed in formal wear is hot - but more often than not the Queens Room and indeed the dining rooms are air conditioned so that usually isn't an issue.

Does anyone know who the current professional international ballroom couple are on QV?  They usually teach any ballroom and Latin classes at 12.15pm on sea days, and who do the show dances in the Queens Room on Gala nights.

Thanks.

Also this from a week ago: https://www.picuki.com/media/2232130554740959584

4 minutes ago, SarahHben said:

Thank you, I'm sure we will have a great time. I've been wanting to cruise since I was a teenager and I'm early 50's now so it's been a long time coming.

I expect you will love the cruise - of course people have different expectations - and sometimes as time passes expectations have to change as society and it's desires change, as well as the hard economic lessons of running a cruise business. Of course if people experienced cruises when they were different and came to like the way everything operated on those cruises, and as times passed the experience, the service and the facilities on the later cruises changed, then everyone in that situation has to decide for themselves whether they will still enjoy the cruise even though it is different from what they liked previously, or they can stop taking that kind of holiday, or a third option is to continue going on those cruises and moan about it on forums like this!

In our case our prime enjoyment is ballroom dancing, so we go on a holiday where we can dance every night, but in addition what completes the enjoyment is the combined experience of a lovely dining room for nice meals, the deck life and swimming, as well as the social connection with others on board, and also the varied ports of call where we have had some fabulous excursions over the years. That latter is one area that we feel is still the case that P&O's excursions are often much better than Cunard's, and also at a lower cost. Again doing your own excursion is sometimes what we do, but at other times we take an organised trip - and we have had lovely times - with a sufficiently wide range of trip options to satisfy most people.

I do hope that there will remain sufficient variation in the kinds of cruise available that it will allow most options to be available in one cruise line or another to satisfy a wide range of tastes, so that we can all enjoy cruises, whether or not you are a dancer, and whether or not you like formal nights.  At present you can go on a cruise where both can be satisfied, but if not there are plenty of other cruise lines where you can avoid dancing, and avoid having to dress up if you don't want to.  The question here is whether P&O will continue to offer an on board atmosphere where there is a formal night, good food in the MDR but with the option of doing it yourself in the buffet but still with nice food available, and still offer ballroom dancing. If not then we will stick with those cruise lines that do - and in the end we may be only able to do the things we want on a land based ballroom dancing holiday, of which there are increasing options becoming available now both at home and overseas.

9 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Cunard is not what it used to be either but they still charge way over the odds for what is now a lesser product, even in the Grills. They have also changed the dress codes  to be slightly less formal. 
 

I imagine some people don’t like the “class” system on Cunard with no go areas for non grills passengers. Funnily enough Celebrity has introduced this across the fleet now as well with exclusive suite class areas.

 

A lot of people stick with P&O for the year round  ex UK departures.

 

Add to that the fact that many long term P&O passengers have the perks of having a high peninsular club status which they would lose if they moved on.

The perks of the Peninsular Club are not huge - and you have to have an awful lot of recent days at sea with P&O to get to the top level. The benefits of a huge outlay seem not be be commensurate with how much money you have to spend to get the status. My opinion only of course, and others may disagree!

1 hour ago, Cahpek said:

 

Whether the survey is fair or not, if you look at the bright side (there's always a "silver lining" for everything, well, almost!), when/if P&O management reads who has been written about their cruise line in the newspapers, hopefully that would make them sit up and listen, and do something about it.

That may even  make them begin to look at the weak parts of the cruise line,  address them , and change for the better. No one is above improvement.

 

For example, maybe , just maybe, they may even  start improving the standard of food and cooking on board (hooray!). At the moment, each time I look at a P&O brochure, and wanted to cruise with them again, the thought of the last Ventura cruise where food for me was the WORST of any cruise I have been on, that really put me off. Perhaps, that's not fair. Perhaps I should give P&O another chance. If P&O senior management seriously look into improving their catering again, I will be one of the first to come back to their cruise line, pronto. (The thing is, P&O has a lot of good things, including of course, the friendly staff).

 

Meanwhile, it is with Viking, Holland America, Oceania, Princess, and others for me . That does no stop me from visiting the P&O discussion board on Cruisecritic, and I think everyone has the right to do that, not just present P&O cruisers and their supporters. I do not expect P&O to be of the same "luxury" standard as some  of some of the other more expensive lines, but lower fares is no excuse to have poor cooking . Not such expensive and exotic ingredients perhaps, but even simple cooking, if well prepared, can be delicious!!! 

This is clearly an issue that a number of people feel strongly about. It certainly is our experience that the P&O cruises we have been on in the past couple of years had some issues that we did not experience six years ago.  The last time we were on Britannia, the year before last, the menus were lacklustre and many evenings there weren't any dishes that leapt out as ones we definitely wanted to order. We are ballroom dancers and there were evenings when the ballroom was put to use as a quiz venue for the first half of the evening, when the pub nearby was perfectly suitable but not used for the quiz.  There were very loud times with quizzes and music in the main pool n deck.  P&O people we talked to were telling us they are trying to be 'more inclusive' and getting more people to enjoy the facilities on the ship, though we didn't ask specifically about the menus as that is subjective.  Perhaps they are trying to appeal to the larger 'market' ahead of launching the new ship. Maybe and perhaps they would rather fill their ships with larger numbers of passengers since larger numbers paying a bit less will bring in more income than servicing a smaller number of passengers paying a little more. 

There are other holiday options on land, and it remains to be  seen as to whether the more mass market that seems to be being attracted in will be sustainable, and whether the more traditional cruise passengers will continue to book if the product becomes increasingly less attractive to that group of people.  The American cruise market does seem to be flourishing and holding up against the trend of ever larger ships and the more boisterous activities on board.  The market that P&O, and Cunard, has had, until recently, has been aimed at a quieter passenger type who enjoys a traditional British cruise atmosphere.  Things are changing - look at the recent trend towards people being unwilling to adhere to formal dress codes - not all of course but an increasing minority who simply don't want to dress up on a cruise.  In restaurants on land, over the past twenty or more years the trend has been for ever larger portion sizes but not for more quality - of course there are still restaurants that go for a market where a diner wants top taste, and nice presentation, and doesn't mind paying more, but the majority of everyday eateries the focus is on quantity as the primary aim.  Long gone  at most restaurants is the plate with pretty presentation and plenty of space to cut up food and get it on a fork or spoon.  Long gone mostly is having a fish knife to cut your grilled fish, if you can find a restaurant that offers grilled fish now!   It is still the case in some cruises to be offered petits fours with coffee at the end of dinner.

Yes I bet P&O will see the Which report and whether they change much in response will be interesting to see in the coming year or two.

At one time it was a wonderful tradition to come back to your room in the evening when the turn down service was completed, to find your mini chocolates, the news sheet for the next day and a wonderful surprise in the form of an animal, fish, or other sculpture made from one or two of the bathroom towels, sitting on the bed nearby. I can't even remember when I last saw that coming into our room in the evening after dinner.   It is a shame that this tradition seems to have gone in Cunard, unless we have simply been unlucky for the past few years and had a cabin steward who had not learned the art of towel folding.  Does anyone know if this tradition is still to be found?

38 minutes ago, Neuhoftraveler said:

But not for the women?  If she were to read this, my dear (white-haired) wife would be not only lovely but livid.  For shame.

Oh of course - ladies always have the option of choosing colours of all their clothes and also hair.  So if a lady wishes to go to the Ice Ball with pure white hair, or variations on the white theme, then that is perfectly OK.

I wonder if it is being left open so that people can choose any suitable attire for the ice white theme - perhaps even white trousers, white shirt, white bowtie and white waistcoat and jacket for the men, along with white ballroom shoes?  Pure white glittery ballgown for the ladies, with ice sparkling crystals glued to the outside, and white crystal covered dance shoes - would all look pretty spectacular if most people went themed in similar fashion - wish we were on that voyage! For the men even white hair would be a pretty nice additional feature!

4 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

How odd. When I marked homework,  alpha α was definitely the best mark. What letter of the Greek alphabet is used for an excellent final version?

Marking homework has a different history for the marks tokens than the development of computer software.  Usually for software after 'beta' it is often the released version at some numerical numbering scheme - so say the software is called "DoodahSoft" - the alpha of a new version might be DoodahSoft-1.2-alpha-1, and then if a few bugs are fixed but there are still lots of problems then the next version might be DoodahSoft-1.2-alpha-2, and when most of the bugs are fixed someone may decide it is stable enough to become a beta so DoodahSoft-1.2-beta-1 and so on until the developers feel it is working well enough to release - though it is possible that a 'release candidate' might be released for soak testing called, say, DoodahSoft-1.2-rc1 - and if problems are found then they will fix the problems and release DoodahSoft-1.2-rc2 - and then if that shows no problems when people test it a lot the same version could be released as DoodahSoft-1.2 (simply dropping the -rc suffix) - which will then get used for real, and in time people may want new features or some security vulnerability is found that need patching - and the next series of development will begin following the same path as 1.2, to become DoodahSoft-1.3-alpha-1 and so on.   Sometimes a release candidate isn't produced but if so then the extensive testing before release is likely to be less reliable.  

If the development is limited to small numbers of developers and there is a pressure of time then the whole process might be hurried along with a much reduced level of testing and fixing before release - and in that case there is a much higher likelihood that when it is released with limited checking that the users will hit more serious problems.  In the case of say an Android system for phones extensive testing is done before a new version hits the big user base.....   for other systems that are made available before a lot of testing has been done the users will have a lot of problems with it but it is much cheaper to develop!

11 hours ago, kentchris said:

Carnival UK seem to be stuck in a death spiral of poorly designed and implemented web site redesigns, with functionality and user friendliness reducing each cycle even once the major bugs have been ironed out. Quite how they think they can get away with foisting barely beta quality software on end users again and again is beyond my experience of IT in many public organisations and private companies, none of which even had public facing systems. 

Beta quality!  For me it is 'alpha' at best! They really need to step up the rate of progress in getting their web server code fixed - or they will need to ramp up the number of available staff at their call centre who can handle the entry of user information directly on their system as part of a human-to-human phone call!

8 hours ago, CabinC said:

I did. They said it has been sold and those rooms are all gone. I'm technically in a higher category but a less desirable room in my opinion. Rather unhappy with the change. 

You have the choice at time of booking to say if you are prepared to accept and upgrade, in which case you have to take it, or not to accept an upgrade in which case you are sure you will have what you booked. The upgrade if it happens is for the stateroom type, but as you have discovered doesn't guarantee a less desirable view outside.

There are clearly different kinds of cruise ship, and hopefully that will continue to be the case - there is the brash American style ship with the dodgems on deck, the waterslides that shoot partly outside of the deck line, with the climbing wall, and the push to make sure that everyone spends as much as possible in the bars, and shops and the encouragement for people to be doing something every moment they are on board, and then there are the more costly but luxurious smaller ships with an emphasis on all inclusive shore excursions, and super quality meals for every meal, plus more luxurious rooms, and then there are the more English style of cruises that 'hope to emulate' some of the American money spinning ideas. There is the classic English quieter cruise, where you can sit in a lounge and be gently asked by a polite waiter if you would like a drink, but not be constantly pestered to do so, and enjoy a full evening of ballroom dancing.  Not all cruises suit all passengers but it is nice there is a choice so everyone can book the cruise style that suits them best.  For some the booze cruise will be great - so long as they can drink and party and come back not remembering anything about the cruise so they 'must' have had a good time if they can't remember what happened.

There are the family cruises where the kids can go wild jumping in and out of the pool, and making lots of noise as they race to the top of the water slides and shriek with delight as they shoot down to the pool.  If that floats your boat then enjoy it to the maximum.  For me however, I like quiet sophistication, and be able to relax whilst doing activities such as ballroom dancing, walking the promenade deck, having nice food with attentive waiters where the gentle background social chat can be heard but not at a level where the noise is so high that you can't have a conversation with the person opposite at the table - or the quiet end-of-evening drink at the top of the ship with a pianist playing and singing. Or on a warm sunny day sitting in the shade on deck having a drink or lunch, or playing table tennis, or finding the short tennis court and having a game of tennis to keep the arms working.  That might not suit everyone but that's fine - and long may it be the case that there is a range of different types of cruise to suit the varying tastes people have for a holiday.

Iona doesn't appear to be likely to have the kind of facilities or atmosphere that would suit us, but presumably the marketing gurus at P&O will have done their research and decided that there are enough people who want to pay to go on a cruise where the facilities on Iona will be what they want, and all the cabins on the ship will be filled for every voyage. But I will be happy if there are still ships offering the kind of atmosphere and facilities that I enjoy. If not then the land-based holidays are still there, and some fraction have similar kinds of facilities to those we prefer on the cruises we like.

1 hour ago, Vampiress88 said:

in your case then I can completely see why you wouldn’t want to go on the Iona. 
But as far as I am aware the rest of the fleet (is it 5 other ships?) do still do dancing. 
 

but surely it’s a bit like me complaining that they have adult only boats. I can’t go on those boats as I have the kids. You can’t go on the Iona cos it doesn’t meet your needs. 
 

You do make dancing sound so beautiful. I wish I could dance, I have two left feet and no rhythm but I do like to watch. But it’s cos it’s there it’s not something I would specifically want from my holiday. 
 

i suppose we all have reasons for certain holidays and they have to meet our needs. I do wonder what percentage the no dancing will effect. 

Yes good question - but I bet the ents manager will be asking the same question and also asking whether they could make more profit if they didn't cater for the ballroom dancers!  Yes the other P&O ships do have dancing but there is an increasing tendency to make the ballroom 'more inclusive' for other passengers, so they take it out for 'pub quizzes' or more sequence dancing, and despite the fact that for a pub quiz the pub nearby then has much reduced custom and could easily be used to host the quiz as well as have ballroom dancing concurrently with that activity!

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Not sure why they wouldn't, on every Celebrity cruise we have been on the CD has said that they take notice of what is posted on CC and use it to improve their entertainment package. Surely P&O management cannot ignore such a wealth of useful criticism.

The managers who make the decisions at head office may or may not ask other staff to look at the response of people on social media, and this forum is essentially one of the many social media.  There are also groups on Facebook and other forums where passengers, and potential passengers, discuss similar matters. Which forums and which social media could be followed depends on whether the managers at Carnival, Cunard, P&O and other lines wish their staff to spend a long time reading the huge number of posts, some small fraction of which could be relevant to deciding policy for how the cruises and ships will be managed. Direct contact with the marketing departments, and/or the relevant manager concerned is much more likely to be given serious analysis.

P-L-B : I doubt P&O managers are looking at this forum but your feedback about your cruises direct to P&O managers is something they may take fully into account when planning the activities on the future cruises.  It is also the case that many ballroom dancers don't like to make a fuss - so if there isn't any dancing on future cruises they will simply book elsewhere!

10 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

I’m not sure I understand why people are cross that the Iona doesn’t have a dance floor and doesn’t do the club dinning? 
 

I mean there is really is no where else you would go and sit for dinner with a bunch of strangers. Can’t imagine someone walking into a restaurant and doing that. 
 

i more think of the cruise for the destination and deals. 
 

do some actually go Specifically to dance?

 

i kinda think if you don’t try it you’ll never know it will just all be assumptions. 
 

I went on my first cruise at 24. Going on p&o at that age as a couple to be honest I thought would just be a bunch of old people and it would be boring. I’m not sure there was any freedom dinning I think it was all club we definitely had to do club and we hated it but that didn’t mean we wouldn’t have gone on it again. Assumptions are not always correct. 

To answer your question about whether 'some' people go Specifically to dance..... the answer is an unequivocal YES.  We are one such couple - we essentially go on a dancing holiday that happens to be on a cruise ship - yes there is the additional lovely atmosphere on board,  and the fact that it's fabulous not having to drive or travel between your room, dining room and ballroom, but like many other couples who are ballroom dancers, dancing is a core part of our lives. We don't go on a cruise to have an occasional half hour dancing.  We dance every week at home, usually several times per week, and we dance every evening when on a holiday, whether on a cruise or a land based dance holiday, of which there are increasing numbers to choose from.  For us dancing gives us a pleasure that cannot be obtained by any other means and it is an ongoing desire to improve our technique, and learn new choreography.  Dancing in total harmony with your partner, and losing your soul in beautiful music is such a pleasure that we want to do it all the time.  It takes a lot of effort to become skilled at doing it, but the reward cannot be measured that you get in return for that hard work in the learning process. In addition dancing regularly keeps you fit, keeps you mind sharp, and also lets you become one of the large community of dancers who welcome you into a world of friendship that is really a pleasure to be part of.  

For us a holiday without dancing every evening we could not even imagine.  Yes we love being able to enjoy the shore excursions, whether on organised trips or doing our own thing walking miles at nice port towns, and we enjoy the generally nice meals, and how the galley staff get thousands of meals out to the tables in a way generally better than most restaurants is a wonder to contemplate, and the opportunity to go theatre shows included in most cruises, as well as having a late night drink overloooking the dark sky, sea and occasionally other ships after an evening's dancing, is a real pleasure. But at the end of the day for us, if no dancing then no cruise and we will go on a land based dance holiday instead.  

Although those passengers who dance every night are not the majority of passengers they make up a significant steady core of people. In addition many more passengers come to watch the ballroom dancing, and often have a drink and make that part of the cruise entertainment.  There are of course discos on many cruises - but that usually doesn't get too many people who come to be spectators - discos generally are full of people discoing but not many come to watch that.

It is also the case that there is a steady number of people who will have their first go at a dance lesson on board - and then go on to learn more when they get back home at a local dance school - and end up becoming one of the future dancers.  So how much people enjoy those lessons on board depend on how well the dance instructors are able to cater for both the beginners as well as those who have done dancing before at various levels.  Some professional dance teachers can teach really clearly and split their time in a way that everyone present feels they are learning something, and enjoy the lessons so that even beginners can then get on the floor and start to enjoy ballroom and Latin dancing.

I guess if you enjoy watching other people dance, and like the Strictly format, then going on Iona to watch the Strictly pros doing their thing in the Limelight Club (which is additional cost I believe?) then it will suit you. If you are a ballroom/Latin dancer who would enjoy spending 'some' of your cruise time watching Strictly people dancing, or chatting about their lives, but who also needs to spend a reasonable amount of time doing your own dancing, then perhaps the Iona format might not suit that well. We dance several times a week on land, and every night on a cruise, so for us Iona would not give us the experience of a holiday primarily focussed on our own dancing every night.  Each to his/her own I guess....

28 minutes ago, John Castle said:

We have just returned from a P&O cruise where we were told that as a company policy the Iona will not have Ballroom Dance hosts or provision for dancing even on the scrappy Atrium floors that suffice on Brittania, Ventura etc.

Apparently they want a younger customer profile. Good luck with that as it may mean that filling this 5000 pax vessel will be difficult outside school holidays.

We have used P&O a number of times and choose them for several reasons, not least being the opportunity to dance in the evenings. It may only be a small number of dancers but there are always a lot of people who like to sit, drink and watch the dancing.

This marketing decision means that we will definitely not be cruising on the Iona.

 

Us too!

I would like to see the Page 40 - not received anything yet!

Did anyone who is a dancer have any comments on the arrangements for ballroom and Latin dancing in the Queen's Room? Any comments on the music provided by the orchestra as well as the periods when there was recorded music? Yes NYE was superb, and the buffet after midnight utterly spectacular. Cudos to the chefs for their imaginative and creative ice, fruit and vegetable sculptures as well as the mighty wonderful array of foods.

It would be very useful if Cunard communicated this to every passenger - and I for one was certainly not made aware of this!

18 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

Is that "Marketing Contact" setting part of what you can control within the login account you create when you register on the Cunard UK website? As I understand it, those of you in the UK can control at least some of your communication preferences with Cunard that way. I'm in the dark though about most of those details since I'm from the US and creating a Cunard login account is not something available in the US yet, hence my question.

I don't know as this was discussed in a phone call - I have resisted logging in for a while due to the somewhat chaotic state that the Cunard login has seemed to be in for some time now.  But it is entirely possible that there is a setting in your account details once you are logged in - anyway if that setting is switched off then you won't get the feedback questionnaires.

Was anyone else on the QV Canaries/Madeira cruise just completed?  It was a lovely atmosphere and I wondered if anyone on this group had any comments, good or bad, about their experience on this voyage?

It seems that in some people's cases (ours included) that towards the end of last year, possibly connected with the transfer of cruise bookings from Thomas Cook when it went into administration and Cunard took over their bookings, or with the big switch of server software, that the setting in some people's accounts for the "Marketing Contact" may have been set to "off" - in which case the automated sending of the feedback questionnaire at the end of the cruise via email does not happen.  If so then apparently there isn't any mechanism to have the link to the questionnaire sent at all, and the only way to get feedback on a cruise would be to email guest relations directly.  If that is the case you can phone Cunard to ask them to reset the Marketing Contact back on "on" so that you do get the marketing feedback and link to the questionnaire at the end of a cruise.  I wasn't aware of this change and I still don't know why mine was reset - anyway I thought it was worth letting people know.