Cahpek
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Posts posted by Cahpek
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Can folks who have been on previous HAL cruises to the North Cape region tell us if their ship passes by the Lofoten Islands to get a good view of those islands?
We are going on the Koningsdam on their cruise Voyage of the Midnight Sun, and although the ship will be sailing past the Lofoten Islands on its way to Honingsvag, we are not sure how close the captain will be sailing past these islands. It would be shame if the ship sails past these beautiful islands but far away enough so passengers cannot get to appreciate them or take any pictures from the ship. We asked HAL's customer service on the phone and they could not tell us. Wish someone can inform us about it..
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On our first HAL cruises the MDR was quite good, but on the last two (Noordam & Oosterdam) the food quality and service had gone down hill. We found the service slow (2 hours to just get served 3 courses) and the food was usually tepid and over salty.
To some extent here is the same problem of food temperature and saltiness in the Lido, but it's easier to avoid it as there is a wider choice with all the various stations. Not sure if the Koninsgdam is the same but on all the other ships they cook pasta to order. They used to make paninis to order, but I don't think they do now. I was often happy to just have the salad bar with a slice of meat from the carvery.... or a couple of cold appetisers and no main.
Ideally we will eat in the MDR some evenings, but it depends on how it is. It will be interesting to try the Dutch Cafe this trip as well.
We are going for routing, the scenery and the scenic cruising, as I expect you are too .... if we get some great food too, that will be a bonus! :cool:
Over salty cooking? Food not sufficiently hot when served? Oh dear, we really dread the thought - over salty food reminds us of the cooking in many restaurants in Portugal. It was so bad we simply could not swallow. Trouble is, our die is cast, we have booked and paid for the cruise, so we will have to go on it whether it is over salty , tepid food or not. One thing's for sure, if the food is a bad as described by some here, it could be our first and last cruise with HAL. Sounds silly perhaps, but we are still hoping that somehow, just somehow, we will find something nice to eat on board (and not just having to go to the speciality restaurants). Other wise, we may find that we will LOSE WEIGHT after the cruise rather than gaining it.....well, we suppose, there's always a "silver lining" to every dark cloud!
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to which on RCCL they added Black Pudding, which I had never seen but quickly became a fan of. Would love to see that on HAL. Trying new things for meals, even breakfast, is part of the adventure of cruising.
We know some people like black pudding, but did you know it is made from clotted blood and fat? The thought of that made us squirm , sorry but black pudding is not for us .
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Interesting the comments about quality of food as well as the open fixed dining option. We have mostly been on HAL over the last few years but have also been on Oceania three times, Seabourn and Celebrity. Celebrity we have eliminated completely as having an overly noisy dining room, far worse than our experience on Koningsdam and a mix of meals from very good to poor. Seabourn we were generally happy with though were irritated that you could not have breakfast or lunch in the MDR which is where we usually eat. Oceania was better, or so I thought but on our recent 18 night trip on a portion of their world cruise I was not happy. Three times I asked for my steak to be well done and it was not even close, one time I ordered the poached salmon on the available everyday menu. It looked beautiful on the plate but when you cut into it it was completely raw, only a fine layer of the outer surface was cooked. You are then faced with the choice of sending it back, or going hungry. If it goes back you end up not eating with your partner. This is totally unacceptable particularly on a line that states it has the best food at sea. They even give you a list of the terms of how your steak is cooked, but then do not follow it. I am not the only person to complain on here about this. For a line which claims to be the best food at sea this is unacceptable. Fine if you want a lot of lobster say, which we do not, but otherwise not that brilliant. HAL measures up in many areas and in fact is better on breakfasts, salads and variety of veg. These two cruiselines are the two we will probably continue to cruise on, with HAL being the choice if the route is what we want to do.
I know many people will not agree with this, but it is our view. All round we think HAL is good value for money.
You would be right to indicate that Oceania Cruises isn't that perfect, no cruise line ever is. However, we noticed that if passengers make enough negative comments or complaints to management, or indirectly via CruiseCritic, they seem to take notice and you may find that they have addressed that issue the next time you cruise. That was our experience with Oceania .
However, it is "encouraging" to read that between Oceania and HAL, you would choose HAL to be the first choice if the route is what you want. As we have mentioned, this will be our first cruise with HAL, so we just hope, hope and hope that things (especially meal standards) will not be as mediocre as some have indicated.
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We will definitely try it for a couple of nights. I have low expectations mainly due to our last HAL cruise, but i'll be delighted if they have improved things.
Dear debsjc, as you have been on HAL before, would you say the general quality of the food/cooking in the Lido Market buffet is better than in the MDR? To be frank, having read the comments, we are NOT having any high expectations on the food (but have higher expectations of other parts of the cruise itself, we just hope the ship will dock in all the ports in the itinerary and the weather is nice) . Still if you are going on a cruise for two weeks (we are going on the same cruise as you are to Norway) and being "stuck" on board, it would be nice to know that there are places to eat which is already included in the price of the cruise fare, and not have to pay a supplement in the speciality restaurants every time we need to eat something nice.
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Slightly off topic, but when we were pre-cruise in Barcelona the hotel had the most amazing chocolate tart on the breakfast buffet..... and yes, I did have some ;)
What I find strange is the countries, mostly Northern Europe, that have cold hams, salamis and cheeses for breakfast. I think maybe cold fish in some places too. :eek:
....and when we were in Rome, the hotel had some of the best dessert/cakes/tarts on the breakfast buffet. It was so delicious we pretended it was dinner time and enjoyed them!:D
...and if you are in Bangkok, Thailand, your hotel may even serve Western, Japanese and Thai breakfast on their buffet!
...and on Princess Cruises, in addition to Western fayre for breakfast , they offered Chinese style rice porridge with chicken. Not bad actually!
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We have always enjoyed the MDR dining experience on our past HAL cruises, but not so much on this March 12, 2017 sailing.
We selected late fixed table for two and were assigned to the lower dining room. The atmosphere we experienced there can only be described as chaotic and loud.
It quickly became an endurance
contest just to get through the
meal.
Anytime and fixed seating guests were mixed, resulting in the constant motion of arriving and departing diners, and the servers necessary to accommodate them.
The noise level rivaled that of a high school cafeteria. Tables were left with dirty dishes for long periods of time without being reset as staff struggled to keep up.
Service ranged from being ignored for the first 30 minutes after being seated to rushed, surly and condescending after we mentioned this to the dining room manager.
We could have changed to anytime dining, but were told the only seating available would be in the lower dining room. There was really no point in doing so.
We did sometimes eat elsewhere on the ship, Unfortunately most of the speciality restaurants were booked and the dinner buffet closes fairly early.
When we ate in the MDR we often found the item served to be different from the menu description:
"Creamy lobster bisque" had whole shrimp.
The "turf" (filet mignon) of surf ( lobster tail )and turf was a small thin piece of mystery meat on top of white rice covered in brown gravy ��
"Lamb shanks" were served in thin strips stir fried in a spicy brown sauce with carrot strips over white rice.
White rice, carrots, and spinach were served as an accompaniemt to most every meal we ate in the MDR.
We rarely saw a green bean or an asparagus.
The one shining star in our otherwise dismal MDR dining experience was Felix, our wine steward. He never failed to greet us promptly with a smile and our favorite wine.
SusieKay, from what you described, it reminded us of the poor quality of catering when we cruised on P&O Ventura in February. When we mentioned that on the discussion board on CruiseCritic, we found other passengers had issues with poor food quality/cooking on other P&O ships as well (At least on P&O, unlike the HAL's Koningsdam, they separated their anytime/freedom diners from fixed diners but putting them in different restaurants, so they did not mix the two groups of passengers with problems arising from that if they had ).
We will be going on the Koningsdam for the first time (also first time with HAL) in June, and we are getting a bit concerned. Still, we have to remain positive , give HAL the benefit of the doubt and try to be objective! At least, the itinerary is good.
Does anyone know if the quality of cooking in the Lido Buffet is better than in the MDR on the Koningsdam? Also, is it less noisy than the MDR? On the P&O Ventura, the food in their buffet restaurant was often pretty awful and it was worse than in the MDR.
From reading comments on CruiseCritic, it appears more and more of these mass cruise lines , eg HAL, P&O, etc, due to cost cutting and cut backs, they seem to be racing to the bottom as far as standards are concerned. Someone here mentioned the only way is to go for luxury/lower luxury cruises ( eg, Oceania Cruises, Viking, Crystal, Azamara, etc.). We tend to agree although we also agree they are quite a bit more expensive. We have tried Oceania Cruises four times and although they were not perfect, they were more than satisfactory every time we went with them. What was amazing was it appeared Oceania management took comments from passengers seriously, we see they have addressed their weaknesses (which passengers have commented) , because every new time we took a cruise with them, they got even better!
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I have to ask this question, I have 19 cruises on HAL, their entertainment and daily activities were so much better in the beginning than they are now. One positive I will say is service was wonderful and the food, I thought, was excellent......
I love HAL but my last cruise this past March on the Eurodam left me wanting something more in the entertainment field on sea days and entertainment at night.
Three years ago we sailed in the Niew Amsterdam and while sea day activities were almost non existent compared to several years ago, I felt there it was still better than my March cruise this year. The piano bar 3 years ago was our go to spot for night time entertainment til at least midnight. This year on the Eurodam the dueling pianos were not impressive at all. I will say B B Kings was awesome but, I just feel HAL needs to step up their game in the entertainment field both day and night to stay competitive.
With that said, I have to ask you and myself, if nothing changes with HAL in the entertainment area, will I look for a new cruise line? I am asking myself the same question and some times I want to, then other times I still feel at home on HAL.
Thoughts?
Have you been on 19 HAL cruises in addition to other cruises, or have you been on 19 HAL cruises and no other cruises?
If it is the latter, and if we were you, we would try other cruises, just for a change, especially those cruises lines in the luxury/luxury light bracket . You would then be able to compare whether you like them better than HAL, or you might realise that you actually still prefer HAL.
From our observation, it appears that most of the mid-range cruise lines like HAL, P&O, etc. are the ones making cut-backs. They appear to be following the "unbundling" model, like what low-cost airlines do, and to an extent, even some legacy airlines are edging towards that direction . They are providing less and less in their basic packange, with the hope that passengers will spend more on "add-ons" (speciality restaurants, etc, etc) to make extra profit. On the other hand, those luxury/luxury light cruises, eg Oceania, Regent, Seabourne, Viking, Crystal, they are doing the opposite , they seem to be offering more items included in their fares (eg free gratuities, drinks package, wifi, sometimes excursions, sauna, complimentary reservations to speciality restaurants, etc).
For us, if we have been on 19 cruises with just one cruise line, we would want a change. For us, part of the beauty of travelling is we see and experience new things. But if you have been on 19 cruises with just one cruise line, odds are you have had the same "old" experience over and over again, it might get a bit monotonous. No? Anyway, it's just a thought.
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Am I the only one who reads "disposable diapers" whenever they see this thread? :o
Disposable diapers? That's a good one! However, we don't think HAL or any cruise line for that matter, would provide disposable diapers. Besides, at our age, don't think we would have a need for disposable diapers (touchwoodx3) !!!:)
We hope we will meet folks like you with a wonderful sense of humour , on our cruise. It would make the traveling experience so much more enjoyable!!! Cheers.
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On Maasdam and Veendam, disposa bl e slippers are provided to guests in neptune and Pinnacle suites. OP, Which ship are you sailing?
We are going on the Koningsdam. Unfortunately, we are only booking in a Veranda cabin, so unlike passengers who are fortunate enough to be in the Neptune and Pinnacle suites, it looks like for our cabin class , we afre not entitled to free slippers . Guess we have to accept that and know our "hole" as the "under-class" on Holland America! Nevermind.
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7th May Going on the P&O Britannia. Stopping at Lanzarote, Gran Canaria, Santa Cruz (Tenerife) Maderia, Lisbon and Vigo booked one excursion to volcano + camel ride. If anyone's been is it easy to get from the port to the above cities? Usually just like to do our own thing. Any help appreciated.:cool:
All the ports are easy to get from port to town. If we remember correctly, all city centres except for Lanzarote is within WALKING DISTANCE from the port area.
In Lanzarote, you could get a bus that takes you to town/city centre, arranged by P&O or its associates at the port (usually, there was a charge for the bus ride for Early Saver fare passengers but free for Select Fare passengers). Your personal passenger card would be scanned before you get on board for each trip.
In Madeira/Funchal, there was also a bus transfer although you could walk to town ( a couple of mins approx). The charges for the bus ride were the same as for Lanzarote.
For Vigo, many passengers may opt to take an excursion or hire a car to visit the historic city of Santiago de Compostela. Vigo is quite a nice city too. It has a lovely park that sits on a hill , and if you are able to climb up to the top, it will give you a breathtaking view of the city and the port below. - you will be able to see where your ship is docked! Don't forget to get a city map..
For Gran Canaria, your ship will likely be docking in Las Palmas. As mentioned, the city centre is within walking distance of the ship. However, if you wish to visit Playa del Ingles and those beach resorts in the south of the island, you will have to either hire a car or take an excursion. You could not walk there (at least, not within the few hours which you have when your ship is there), it's just too far.
For Tenerife, the city of Santa Cruz is not the most interesting city on the island. Having said that, it is certainly not ugly but there is not much to see and do there. Most tourist would probably try to visit the more luscious and greener western part of the island , to resorts like Puerto de la Cruz, or the northwest. With just a couple of hours, many passengers could opt to take an excursion on a ride to the centre of the island which would give them a view of the majestic Tiede volcano.
In Lisbon, the city is fairly large, it is advisable to either take the underground or the bus to get around. Or you can take a tram for the older parts of town. Or simply walk. The underground is the quickest. One suggestion: try visit the Aquarium and its surroundings. It is situated in the new part of Lisbon, which has been transformed because of an Exposition. With those new buildings, that part of Lisbon is a bit like the city's version of Canary Wharf. The great thing is most tourists have not discovered the place yet, so it is still relatively "tourist free"!!!
By the way, unlike many other cruise lines, we found the prices of excursions offered by P&O were usually not much more than if you go with other private excursion companies you find on the internet. For other cruise lines, their excursion fares were sometimes quite exorbitant. So, even if you arrange your own excursions, you might find you are not saving yourself very much.
Enjoy your cruise.
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You can get 20 pairs of them, 10 small size & 10 large size for $25.00 on Amazon. We have them for house guests.
Yes, we know. We have slippers too. It's just that if they provide them on the ship, we would have one item less to pack. You know due all those airline weight restrictions, every little (less weight) helps!
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Sorry, we made a grammatical error in my tread Heading.
Instead of writing:
"Are disposable slippers provide in Staterooms?"
It should be:
"Are disposable slippers PROVIDED in Staterooms?"
Sorry about that folks. Guess we'd better go back to school and attend English classes! Gulp!!
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We shall be going on Holland America for the first time soon, although we have cruised with other lines a number of times.
Can we ask HAL cruisers whether the cruise line provide complimentary disposable slippers in their staterooms? (We have booked a verandah cabin/stateroom. The reason we mentioned this is we understand that on HAL, certain staterooms get certain amenities and others do not, eg inside staterooms do not have a fridge but other staterooms have.).
Also, for the shampoo in the bathroom, does house-keeping provide them in individual bottles or is it available via a dispenser "stuck" on the wall of the shower?
Hope we will get some answers to these queries.
Thank you.
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On the subject about the Koningsdam, we were wondering if they offer "throw-away" slippers for passengers? Anyone who knows that please help. We are booked for a varandah cabin/stateroom.
It's just that some cruise companies offer them, and some don't. And if HAL does not offer them, we will just pack ours from previous other cruises to take along, but if they do, there is no point taking them.
Thanks in advance for any answers to our query.
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No extra charge I noticed. They will advertise a "prime rib dinner" (first night of the cruise), a "steak dinner" and a "lobster" dinner on little signs on the tables and elsewhere around the ship.
We walked through the Lido Marketplace one lobster night, and sure enough they had lobsters. Seemed pretty popular- a good number of people with more than one lobster tail on their plate.
Gosh, really? That sounds great. We are looking forward to that now.
After having such a disappointing experience (especially in the buffet) with P&O Ventura in Feb. (incredibly poor cooking standard with a host of dishes , lacking quality, taste and choice, etc, for a cruise), we are a bit unsure and feeling a bit "timid" on what kind of catering we can expect on any new cruise. With luck, it will be much better with HAL on the Koningsdam . At least, your review gives us hope!
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We ate in the Pinnacle one night. As always, excellent. The Dive In and the Pizzeria/Deli were VERY busy and very good. This is our first time in the new Lido Market layout- we liked the layout and choices. The salad bar was very popular in our group. The dinner menu in the Lido Market was a surprise- they actually advertised crab and lobster dinners in the Lido Market, when neither was on the menu in the MDR. The MDR seemed to have more choices than in the past- commonly 6 mains...occasionally 7 or 8. HAL continues to do beef and fish well- those are my usual choices.
Hi
Thanks for writing such an extensive review. We found it very helpful as we will be going on the Koningsdam for the first time in June.
We have a question. You mentioned that in the dinner menu in the Lido Market, they advertised crab and lobster dinners? Is there are supplementary charge for that, or are those items included as part of the buffet? We do realise HAL "loves" to add supplement charges to a lot of extra things. We asked because we know cruise lines like Oceania Cruises have very regular (almost every evening) lobsters in their buffets as part of their "standard" offerings, but if they have it in the buffet on Holland America as well without a supplementary charge, that will be a pleasant surprise! After all, HAL fares are generally so much lower than Oceania's.
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Very noticablebthat the moans come from the same group of people who have a history of finding fault with P&O. One wonders if they look for problems. Just one long moan really. Do they also moan about the miners on the ship. Just a thought.
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DaiB , with respect, we think you are one of those people that do not allow others to express their views, but you seem to be here on this board expressing your views all the time.
We think it is good that you can express your view(s), you could agree or not with the others, that's your prerogative, but you should not try and shut other people up when they write their own views. Remember, mutual respects, that's what is required by CruiseCritic to posters on this Board !!! Just a thought.
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Not my experience of P&O fish and chips at all.
When on the long cruise 7 of the 8 on the table had the same all excellent.
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When on our last cruise in Feb., it was not just us who experienced that. One lady kept going back to the buffet. She said it was because she got one piece of fish in batter, there was so much batter and so little fish she had to keep going back for more fish to get that "fish" taste!
Having said that, some folks may prefer greasey batter and little fish in their fish and chips. Everyone's different.
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Nothing wrong with plain food but plenty wrong with cheap food
Know just what you mean.....Fish and Chips with excessive greasy batter and little fish, and the "Chef's Speciality" Cornish Pasty. Or soup that was barely hot and lacking in taste. Or cheap greasey tasting burger.
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Last December I tried P&O for the first time after many years of cruising Celebrity, HAL and Princess. It would be fair to say that food quality has declined significantly across all the cruise lines especially with the introduction of the Specialty Restaurants. Britannia MDR food was the worst we have ever experienced, after the second night we decided to use the Beach House, Sindu and Glasshouse and pay extra for a decent meal. We would compare the food in the MDR to what you would expect in British Pub - 2 meals for £10 sort of quality, don't expect any better.
We tend to understand what you mean about expecting British Pub standard meals. Just in case the meals in the MDR might be better, it would be a "pleasant surprise". That would be better than having high hopes and then end up being disappointed when the food turns out not to be very good. Service was usually relatively quick though,even for Freedom dining.
For us , the MDR food on the Ventura was quite inconsistent. One evening, they had lobster on the menu, but when it came out, it was so overcooked (or stored in the freezer for too long, or both) the flesh was stringy and rest of it was stuck to the shell. However , another evening, the lobster came out nice. Same with the fish, one evening poor, another evening quite okay. Guess as someone said, they had to cook for so many people. Having said that, like many folks here, we have been on other cruises too and those other ship kitchens had to cook for so many people as well, yet their quality was more consistent than what the Ventura MDR kitchen could come up with.
Glad to hear that the OP will not be using the Buffet much except for breakfast and some salads for lunch - their buffet breakfast was actually quite acceptable. However, the lunch and dinner buffets were probably the weakest points on the Ventura, ahem, dare we say some of the food that came out was close to awful? The cooking for lunch and dinner there was so poor that we sometimes had "visions" of members of Dad's Army running around the kitchen, and they just came out with some dishes that did not necessarily taste like what they should ! So much for "British" influenced cooking!!!
The Ventura has quite a number of good points about it - great accommodation (the cabin lighting was one of the best on any ship) , friendly and hard working staff, good drinks prices, reasonable gratuity charges, reasonable prices even for their excursions , etc. But for "foodies" , in our opinion, that is not the ship to choose.
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I have read here where a couple of people got their cabin assignments 3 weeks -- very rare.
Most start getting their assignments 10 days out.
Hope you get a good cabin.
When we booked through our Travel Agent for a HAL cruise on the Koningsdam to the Norwegian Fjords in June, we already have an email from our TA for our booking which INCLUDED the cabin number we have agreed on.
From reading what is being discussed, does that mean that is NOT CONFIRMED? That would be quite a concern, because we have read a review by someone on CC who had been on the Koningsdam and who had the idea he and his wife have their pre-arranged cabins, but when they boarded, they were told they would be put into another cabin - and to their disappointment, the latter cabin had their views badly blocked by a huge life-boat!
It would not be good at all to spend thousands of $$$$ on a cruise in a varanda cabin agreed (with no blocked view) and to which thought you were assigned, and when you get on board they eventually put you in one which has its view blocked. Imagine 14 days with the main objective of viewing the Norwegian fjords and you end up in a cabin where you could not even enjoy the fully the beautiful sceneries you cruise past. That would have defeated the main objective of our cruise.
Is HAL notorious for switching cabins which have been agreed by customers before they book?
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We bought our tickets at visitflam.com (and by the way, it was cheaper than nsb.no, the Norweigan rail site).
We had no trouble finding availability for afternoon trains for the day we are in port, but all the morning trains and first afternoon train were sold out, likely in major blocks for the cruise lines.
Thanks for the info.
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I think that you are absolutely right. We do not sail with P&O for the food. We would go with other lines if they had more choice from Southampton. When we have been with Celebrity or Princess we have found that the variety and standard of food to suit us better.
On P&O reminds me of going to Spain 40 years ago when people would not try Spanish food and went to Spain to eat "English" food.
I have worked all over the world often in areas where if I had not eaten the local cuisine I would have eaten nothing so I will try anything and can only say that people who stick to the "meat & 2 veg" don't know what they are missing but if that is what they want so be it who am I to criticise their choices.
Couple of points. We were just wondering if it is true to say that:
Although over 40-50 years or so, British taste in food has move forward and their palates have become more refined, but P&O still thinks we are "happy" with the food eaten by our great-great grandfathers 60-70 years ago:
Some people in the post had suggested if we did not like the buffet, don't go there. There are people like us who happen to prefer the buffet (sometimes to avoid the formal nights, sometimes not) does that mean we have to "put up" with it and shut up? That shouldn't be right because the buffet is part and parcel of the cruise experience, it's a package! The buffet lunch and dinner on our last P&O cruise in Feb. tasted like as if they were prepared by kitchen staff who were members of Dad's Army and not professional chefs - lots of food prepared that did not taste what they should be . Good British food could be good if cooked properly but in the buffet, so much of the food was not even "proper" British cooking (watery custard, fish and chips with so much batter you could hardly have any fish, meringue so hard it felt like it was made with concrete, etc)
It's this food issue that is holding P&O back to become a truly great cruise line. If they can just improve their catering to meet the tastes of people in the 2017, not 1967, that would solve most of the problem.
It's time P&O managers should wake up and smell the coffee. British tastes and palates have moved on. We have become more refined and discerning with what we eat. They should not expect us just to be happy with 1960's "English" food (and not a very good version of it) . If they do, yes, it is likely they take their passengers for granted.
Comparison of HAL to Celebrity
in Holland America Line
Posted · Edited by Cahpek
You will find the above quoted were "rack" rates. Many "savvy" cruisers on Oceania and perhaps other similar cruise lines will know that they do NOT pay the full fares quoted.
We learnt our "lesson" when we went on our first cruise with Oceania and discovered that so many passengers paid just a fraction of what we paid - we felt so "foolish" having paid so much more than they did. So on our subsequent cruises with Oceania, we did the same as those passengers, and looked for cruises which we liked which also offered discounted fares. If we remembered correctly, we saved about 40 percent off the quoted fares - and this is not uncommon. In addition, Oceania also have offers "O-Life" bonuses that include free wifi plus a choice of on-board credit, or free excursions or wines on many of their cruises.
We would expect you would get discounted fares on those other cruise lines in those category/categories.
We will be going on our first HAL cruise soon, and we shall wait until we have sailed with them to comment on how the experience with them will be.
However, we have tried other mass market cruises too, and there was quite a mark difference with them and those cruise lines like Oceania.From our observations, the mass market cruises seemed to be very good in terms of price and quality several years back, but they all seem to be experiencing "cut backs" thus reducing their quality of standards and offering less and less over time (with more and more things being required to pay extra for) . Meanwhile, the so-called "luxury/lower luxury" cruise lines are getting better and better, and offering even more to passengers as time goes on.
Some might say "You get what you pay for". We had hoped not, we were hoping that sailing with mass market cruises, we would still get wonderful experiences at a better price. Don't most people who sail with these cruise lines?