NoFlyGuy

55 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

In a word, no. Because the scientists at Oxford are saying it’s unlikely. And because pretty much every promise he’s made so far has been broken - only to be followed by yet another even greater promise, which is then in turn broken.

 

One little word - testing.

We are at 18th in the world on number of tests per head of population. Most of the countries ahead of us are very small e.g. Faroe Islands and none have a population above 10 million to our 67 million. So we are doing well on testing, maybe Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Portugal et al need to catch up.

8 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Too flaming hot, just had some rain, but not enough.  Need a deluge.

Too true! Here at Silverstone we got some rain but , as always, the main thunder storms seemed to miss us, rumbling in the background. Must be something to do with the local topography as it happens so often.

As posted on another thread we wanted to transfer from this years Christmas/New Year on Aurora to next year on Arcadia.

We booked through an agent and P&O said we have to make any changes through the agent.

We were worried about the threat of even more increase in prices if P&O cancelled, say, to the end of the year yesterday, so we booked Christmas 2021 direct with P&O early yesterday. 

Our agent for the 2020 Christmas cruise wants payment by 31st August and are not accepting phone calls - need to contact 'a very limited staff working from home' by email and taking up to 28 days to respond! 

If we get close to 31st August with no resolution, I will call P&O again and ask why they cannot resolve the situation.

Times are hard but it's just a total mess.

Still waiting for the refund of deposit for our cancelled June cruise which we cancelled in March. As posted before part of it was my fault but an email reply from P&O last month stated they had no record of my cancellation - please fill in the refund request again!

As an aside we are still booked on the Aurora Christmas cruise this year. We were due to meet up with two couples who were to be our witnesses for our renewal of vows. They have both cancelled and booked the Arcadia equilivent for 2021.

Tried to cancel today and move the deposit to the Arcadia cruise. Originally booked via agent - think Direct Line insurance and guess the agent. Can't contact by phone and an automated email response says 'up to 28 days' to respond and our balance is due in 21 days. If P&O cancel the Christmas cruise I'm pretty sure prices for the same in 2021 will rise even further

Phoned P&O but they say they can't transfer the deposit because we booked through an agent.

Will probably book the Arcadia cruise tomorrow via P&O and worry about the £300 odd deposit later. Frustrating none the less.

This will probably get deleted as an obvious 'mention' of a cruise agent!

As expected it was a strange weekend here in Silverstone. No crowds, roads and footpath closed. In theory we, as locals, should have been able to still use some of the footpaths that skirt the circuit but didn't push our luck and went on walks in nearby Hazelborough wood and Bucknell wood instead.

Did skirt a part of the circuit today. Quite a few caravans around without cars. Not sure if they were marshals or what. 

Come Friday we go through the whole thing again with the 70th anniversary GP.

No supporting races this time, just the F1 cars. Can't expect to see it being quite as dramatic as yesterday with all the tyre blowouts. Forecast is hot again which won't suit the Mercs so could be a tight race.

I suppose it was always inevitable that easing of lockdowns in Europe or elsewhere would lead to an increase in cases.

For the past few days at least, the new cases in Spain have been running at 3 to 4 times those in the UK.

Can't comment on whether it's very localised or a general increase in Spain.

Here we seem to be getting about six to eight hundred a day and it's seems to be fairly consistent.

I don't think testing is a valid factor in comparing countries. After a slow start the UK has one of the highest rates of test per head of population.

e.g per million population - UK 205.776, Spain 135,188, Germany 88,528.

We used to laud how Germany had reacted to the pandemic but their new cases of late seem to be similar to ours but they are doing far fewer tests.

Going to be strange here in Silverstone next weekend and the following weekend when we host two grand prix.

Empty camp sites and no crowds down in the village centre on the Friday and Saturday evenings.

The Dadford road and some footpaths that we use are being closed to non locals to discourage people from turning up hoping to be able to see something.

2 hours ago, Eddie99 said:

Today’s figures and comparison with last Friday

https://coronavstats.co.uk/media

 

It’s not going away.  The figures are relatively low - but they’re rising not falling.

 

I think I saw a headline with the PM saying he expects it still to be around till the middle of next year?  😢

Not the retirement I anticipated

True, it's not going away but the figures for both deaths and new cases are pretty stable. Given that we've been coming out of lockdown, I find it encouraging that the number of new cases isn't soring. Yes there are hotspots and, of course, the more you test the more cases you will find.

Even deaths have to examined carefully. Todays total of 123 will include those who have been in intensive care for weeks/months but sadly have finally lost the fight. Also some will have died some time ago but have just got added to the statistics for various reasons.

As for a vaccine - if one or more become available this autumn/winter, I will certainly take up any offer to be vaccinated, whether live or inert.

Three and a half years ago we did the Oriana 50 night cruise that did the Amazon. We had to have the 'live' yellow fever vaccine.

It was a bit scary at the surgery as we were handed a card that gave statistics for side affects. Can't remember the exact figure but potential death seemed pretty high!

Not overly worried about travel insurance costs post the end of the transition period whatever the scaremongers say.

Seems to me entirely possible, and beneficial to both parties, to extend the current rules going forward.

6 minutes ago, drsel said:

Oceana has been sold to another (Greek?) Cruise company. maybe you can book it through them

I suspect she's off to Greece for a refit and then going to join Oriana/Piano Land in China.

15 minutes ago, jh1809 said:

Yes, I'm sure that cruise ships were a very minor factor in comparison to air travel, which had far more people travelling between countries a whole lot faster.

 

(And they were still sending cruise ships out not just in the first week of March but the second, the Aurora cruise I was on leaving Southampton on the 11th IIRC - of course we didn't get very far.)

 There were still far more passengers travelling by air  during late Feb and early March than on cruise ships.

How did the virus end up here in the UK? By the thousands returning by sea or millions by air?

We returned on the 8th March on Oceana and, as far as I am aware, nobody was infected on board.

I suspect it's just as likely that passengers or crew get infected when they go ashore rather than they infect the local population.

4 hours ago, mat5664 said:

Given what's happened in the US as soon as bars opened up, I fail to see how there will be any cruises this side of a vaccine.  Insurance will be impossible for a start.  

 

That said, it does look increasingly possible there could be a vaccine by Summer 2021.  

I stick with what I've posted before and there will be a vaccine long before summer 2021. AstraZeneca wouldn't be producing billions of doses of a vaccine which they will sell at cost, if they didn't have a high degree of confidence that it would work.

Of course they and I could be wrong - lets hope not.

20 hours ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

Has anybody who has been refunded twice paid them back yet? Or are you hanging on to it for 60 days?😉😀😎

Nothing appeared today on our credit card or bank account.

Whilst I want our deposit refund for our 28th June to be returned, I do hope we don't get a double refund for our May cruise.

Just more hassle finding out how to repay them. If it happens, I'll just email them and await their advise, wont hang on to the excess refund if it happens.

I'm sure the brilliant P&O cruises computer systems would soon get it sorted !!!

As reported last week we finally got our refund for our March cruise.

Had an email today from P&O apologising for the delay and that our refund will soon be forthcoming for the March cruise.

Looks like we will be in that 'happy' band of punters getting refunded twice for the same booking!  Just more hassle if it happens.

Still waiting for our refund of deposit on our 28th June cruise though.

Difficult times I know, but pretty shambolic.

2 hours ago, Hampshire Steve said:

We have never received one of the pins that were supposedly left in our cabin for us to wear proudly in the bar so people would look at us in awe!

 

Funnily enough, we never called down to reception to complain 🙂

 

Do they actually exist?

Has anyone actually worn one?

Why?

Have received some. Never worn any.

15 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

I would rather have a sometimes in your face pleasantries in your face than staff on P&O in recent years and P&Oers who are either moaning about the weather, toast at breakfast or P&O in general. Met two ladies on first full sea day on Britannia's maiden voyage while having a coffee in atrium, first thing they asked was have you any faults/complaints about the ship and at that point got out a sheet of paper and a pen and openly admitted they were making a list of everyone's complaints/faults so they could write to P&O when they got home. At that point a waiter came and asked them if they wanted to drink and how they spoke was disgusting and said if I want a coffee I will go up to the buffet and not pay for it down here. If that is the attitude of traditional P&Oers who dont like the big ships then I dont blame P&O for trying to get a younger clientele.

A bit too much of a generalisation for me. We've met all sorts from all age groups on our cruises and it seems to us that those who want complain (justified or otherwise) come from all age groups.

With Covid-19 still a problem, we've found that the older people are far more likely to obey social distancing rules whilst we are out on our walks.

The number of times we've had to call out 'excuse me, can we walk through' on a relatively narrow path whilst some young couple or a young family group seem incapable of walking in single file for ten yards before we have passed on the other side of the path or footpath. Is it really that difficult?

Got our refund for the 15th May cruise today. The balance to our credit card and the deposit to our bank account. Usually I do everything on the credit card but must have paid the deposit by debit card.

Still awaiting a refund of the deposit on our 28th June cruise.

As I've admitted before on this site, much of the wait was my fault as I hadn't supplied medical evidence as to why we needed to cancel on the 17th March. Once I contacted one of the ladies whose companies email addresses had been shown of this site things changed. Only 3 weeks since I contacted her, so many thanks to that person.

None of this is to exonerate P&O or any other hospitality based company some/many of whose actions on refunds have left a lot to be desired.

Agree totally. We don't want to spend thousands on a cruise holiday where social distancing is in operation.

We still have five P&O cruises booked between Dec 20 and Feb 22 - obviously only deposits paid.

First decision to be made by Aug 31st, so still some way off for us.

As posted before, still pinning my hopes on the Oxford vaccine (or others worldwide), which if successful, could be a game changer. Normally a pessimist, I live in hope!

18 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

Ann141 Did you book directly with P&O? the balance pay date for them is about 3 months before sailing. For our TA it is about 4 months, I think so that they know we are paid up and ready to go (and get a bit of interest?).

 

We have gone from 2 months ago feeling that we would definitely not be going, to about a month ago getting to 50/50 and then back to having too many doubts. Restrictions are being lifted in Europe and UK gradually and the cruise may go ahead, however what necessary changes can be achieved on a cruise ship whilst still maintaining a pleasurable experience still doesn't add up in my head.

It's extremely difficult.

We are still waiting for refunds for our May and June cruises ( as posted earlier on another thread, partly my fault)

Out next cruise is the Aurora Christmas and new year Canaries cruise. Due to booking through an agent ( to save a few bob) our balance is due on 31st August.

It might seem a long way off but we all have to weigh up what we think the cruising experience might be like when/if our cruise takes place and therefore have to decide whether to pay the balance.

A further complication was that we had paid for the 'renewal of vows package' on that cruise. (it was our second attempt as 18 months ago we had booked the package on Ventura but had the cancel the cruise for health reasons).

Two other couples we know from earlier cruises have also booked the same cruise and were/are going to be our witnesses.

Assuming for a moment the cruise goes ahead but we decide to abort, whether due to continuing worries about the virus or any on board experience, it's potentially difficult. We'll keep in touch with them and see how the land lies in the months ahead and how they feel.

8 minutes ago, kalos said:

Sorry if you thought I was saying that you said Sweden was doing well .

I started my post with ..I think Sweden could have done a lot better when you compare the population.

Just saying what I thought and just like you are asking about Japan faring well , we mere mortals will never know .

As you also say we have no answers but the likes of Professor Chris Whitty & Co ,should and will take other Countries 

Do's and Don'ts onboard . 

If you take note I had liked your post as I share some of your frustrations in not knowing things out of our control

but a lot of this as you say is for the scientists. All we can do is try to keep safe .

Hi kalos. appreciate you liking my post.

As you say keeping safe is important and I suppose we will all have different views on how to do that.

Sometimes the statistics don't make that easy whatever the consensus view.

19 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

I think Sweden could have done a lot better when you compare the population of around 10.5 million to the 

UK 's over 68.8 million . They tried just sheltering the over 70's with poor results .

If you were to Google .."Sweden's lax COVID-19 response caused too many deaths, country's top epidemiologist."

It does not make good reading .

As for the best course of action ,last week a journalist was asking Professor Chris Whitty

"Do they compare peer results and can they say where we have gone wrong ?"

His response was they are cross checking data daily and if they find they need to alter things they do give that advice.

However he insists that we are still in the middle of a pandemic and to get a full view from beginning to end is the only way to get an accurate view based on science. 

I can understand it to a certain degree as if I was trying out a new car journey route and was asked half way ...

"is this a better way ?" Then I would prefer to give a better response on arrival.

To be fair Sweden , UK and others will look back and have a good lists of Do's and Don'ts .

 I fully get the things that frustrates you, me and a lot of others but we can take comfort in the figures are now falling .

 

I've never said that Sweden were doing well. I pointed out their death rate per head of population was below ours and they have done that whilst still educating their children and not destroying their economy to the extent that we have here in the UK and across much of the world. I suspect that when economic figures come out for both other major European countries and others across the world, it's going to make grim reading.

My other point was on testing. If mass testing is so important to control the virus ,why has Japan fared so well with barely any tests.

Surely these are legitimate questions.  Perhaps not for those of us who view and maybe post on this site, but at least for the scientists.

The thing that frustrates me most is the anomalies.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned Sweden - No real lockdown, Schools. bars and restaurants open, groups of up to 50 allowed to meet but faring a little better than the UK.

Then there's the case of Japan. We keep hearing test, test, test!

Japan - population 126 million, tests conducted 328,730, deaths 920.

UK - population 68 million, test conducted 6,434,713, deaths 41,481.

How to explain those statistics?

It's okay to have a consensus regarding the best course of action but I thought science was about peer testing theories and having to explain these anomalies. Not heard anyone from the science or media communities explain these yet.

59 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

They now accept that they got it wrong.  Our government is still refusing to accept that it failed us.  We now have the fourth highest death rate per capita in the entire world, and the OECD said yesterday that our economic position is probably the worst among leading nations.

 

This has been disastrously handled in the UK.

Accepting they got it wrong doesn't answer the question.

It the timing of a lock down was so important,the population of Sweden should have been decimated by now. They also kept their schools open and allowed gatherings of up to 50 people, yet still look likely to have a lower death rate than the UK.

12 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Italy was giving our government warnings well before our lockdown that we needed to take immediate action.  You'll remember what was going on in Italian hospitals at that time.

 

Unfortunately, our Prime Minister chose to concentrate on other things and no heed was taken of the warnings from Italy.  We now know that if we'd locked down even one week sooner, thousands of lives would have been saved.  Two weeks earlier -even more.

 

More and more people realise that now, which is why his popularity has plummeted recently.  Our government now has one of the lowest approval ratings in the world.  Fighting this virus requires trust in governments, and ours has lost it.

Sweden hasn't been in a lock down worthy of the name.

So why isn't their situation far worse than ours? 

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

The 2m rule was always an utter farce and the government and so-called "experts" have always known it.  I deem it little more than a psychological technique to make the masses comply with something and think they are doing something good.

 

Scientifically it has been known for months that the aerosol droplets from coughs and sneezes travel up to 8m and sometimes further depending on air currents.  It is also known that fine aerosol droplets can hang in the air for up to 3 hours so no amount of social distancing will protect you from this.

 

At the same time the government and experts knew that if people wore masks or other face coverings you could reduce the spread of your exhaled germs VERY significantly, in the case of a simply bandana by a factor of 36.

 

Yet they lied to the public and told them that there was no benefit in the public wearing masks, but that they would magically work and provide benefit to NHS workers.

 

The entire situation is and has been an utter farcical shambles and a national scandal imho.

 

The government has since done a complete U-Turn on the issue of wearing masks and Boris stood up on live TV in the HoC and stated that masks ARE beneficial in preventing spread of the virus.   Just outrageous.

 

They will now do a similar U-Turn on social distancing by the look of it, another farcical step, as if 1m or 2m really made the slightest bit of difference when coughs and sneezes can travel 8m or more and when droplets can hang in the air for 3 hours.

 

They have treated the UK public as utter fools imo and continue to do so

 

Bottom line, social distancing destroys business and its ability to provide products and services. Accordingly it has to be eradicated in a way that the public will accept without them thinking it's all been a farce from the outset.

 

 

Really?

Firstly it's the WHO who keep seeming to change their guidance. Masks are good, masks make no real difference. Two metres is right now, now it's one metre is ok. Yes we are all learning but the science isn't exact.

You quote 8 metres as how far droplets can be spread from quoting 'some authorities'. So do you believe that we should have an 8 metre distancing rule? If not, why quote that authority. What do you want? 1 metre, 1.5 metres, 2 metres or 8 metres or any other distance that some scientist or medic advises.

It's patently obvious to me that the closer you get to someone who has the virus the more likely it is you will catch it. 

Some countries have a one metre rule. others 1.5 and yet others, like us, two metres. We need to remember that although reported infection rates and deaths are falling in the UK, and that I note with some relief, we still are reporting more than 1000 new infections every day.

Hard though it is, do we really want to start to get up 'close and comfortable' with others with that level of infection?