Yesimapirate

13 minutes ago, PartyPlannerLady said:

No they made MORE than expected.  What they made is measured by EPS.  Their total REVENUE was lower but that is only half of the equation as to what they made.  Many who have an ignorance on how to read and interpret financial statements make the same mistake.  Bottom line is MUCH more important than top line.  A company can generate all the revenue in teh world and still not make money.

You're right.  Making TOO MUCH money explains why there was a sell off.

Revenue is down, future revenue is down.   The EPS was because costs were cut more than expected.   You cannot continue to cut costs forever. 

5 hours ago, jondfk said:

So, a few cleanup thoughts as we approach San Pedro and a return to normal.

 

First, thanks ORV for starting this thread, it was a pleasure to meet you again at Terrace Cafe the other day.

 

Second, staff has been pretty close to excellent start to finish, I’ve never had to ask twice for anything.  Most requests are met within seconds.  When I think “who was the worst crew member” no image comes to mind.  When I think “who was the best” six or seven faces immediately appear.  Wow.

 

Third, let’s talk internet.  Stupendously unreliable.  The server seems to be rebooting many times each day.  When access is available it’s slooooow.  More infuriating though were the many hours each day when it simply wasn’t available at all.  All of this with us relatively near the equator, one wonders how much worse it will be when we sail next in Alaska.  One hopes the obvious rebooting problems might be solved by then.

 

We have a longish, 7 hour drive home after debarking and hope for a quick and easy process.  We have throughly enjoyed this mid length voyage and look forward to our next.

 

We've always had 5G or 4G cellular access most of the time on the ship when we've been on the inside passage.   You also won't have to worry about finding wifi while on shore, assuming you're from the US.

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

all the cruise line stocks are down.  CCL and RCCI down more percentage wise than NCLH.

Yes but NCLH had their quarterly report this morning and announced a revenue miss.  

1 hour ago, schmoopie17 said:

"NCL topped first quarter earnings estimates. However, shares dropped after quarterly revenue fell short of analysts' expectations."

 

So...in other words...they made more money than was estimated, but because it fell short of what the "experts" expected, the stock tanked.

Not being a financial whiz, I'm having a hard time reconciling those two things.

 

In any case, my whopping 100 shares that I bought at $12.90 are still making a little money (along with our OBC benefit).

It actually means they made LESS than expected.   They just spent less than expected. I guess not enough Haven passengers order extra lobster tails???

You can only cut so much.  Future profitability is based on revenue.   I wonder what new fees there will be "for your convenience ".

1 hour ago, Vallesan said:

 

WOW!

Just don’t know how they can justify those prices.

 

To be blunt,  they don't have to justify them to passengers.   You either are OK with it and book it or think it's over priced and don't book it.

I think we often make the mistake that when we're loyal to a business and that means they're loyal to us and should be sharing information above and beyond other companies.  They aren't loyal to us past wanting to generate as much revenue as possible from us.  

For the record,  I agree with you that it's crazy. 

You lost me after the main dining room steak was the best you ever had.  

4 hours ago, 90scruzer said:

True.   Last year we sailed Marina for the first time.   I think we went in with higher expectations given the "best food at sea".   Not that I am saying the food is bad at all.   But a lot of it caters more to my sister's taste than to mine (ie. French - duck, coc au vin, pate, etc), cannot talk to R class, but at least on Marina we had plenty of specialty restaurants and we only once weren't able to get in (and that just because we don't eat as late as their seating opening).   But I will say this, if it's relevant - we discussed the food with some long-time Oceania travelers.   They said it was good, but not as good as pre-Covid.   I fear it's going to take a few more years before any of the cruise lines feel sufficient need to return to pre-Covid levels.   I hope to be proven wrong.  BTW, it was better than HAL or Princess, which we have also sailed post-Covid.   And I also enjoyed the Illy.  

 

But I do agree:  I book a ship for the itinerary/ports and if I can get that timeframe off work.   I personally would never sail Oceania for routine routes such as Alaska or Caribbean.   To me it just isn't worth the extra expense.   But we would (and will) sail them again in the future.     

Sadly I think you will be proven wrong but not in a positive way.  The cruise lines have plenty of money to spend.  The reduction in costs at this point is a result of full cabins.  If you can raise your prices, cut your costs and still have fill cabins, you have zero incentive to change.  The changes will only come when bookings begin to drop  

Let's not forget that NCL holdings just spent billions on new ships.  Money is available,  they're just making a business decision on how they invest it.

Quite honestly,  it's the same false narrative the airlines used after 911, the 2008 recession and during covid. They got rid of meals, charged baggage fees and increased all kinds of other fees.  It was forgiven because they "needed the revenue to survive".  And now that they're having record revenues and profits,  they simply increase their fees and change their frequent flier programs to generate more revenue.   It's perfectly fine, they're a business and can do what they want.  But please don't be mistaken that you need to be altruistic to them or accept lower standards.  

It seems to me that there were some expectations that were unreasonable going into the cruise and now you're trying to find ways to justify your unhappiness. 

While some of your comments are certainly true,  especially about the entertainment and activities,  those were not one offs making this a bad cruise.  Those are simply what O offes and it's pretty apparent when you take 5 minutes to research.   Had you had a better knowledge base beforehand you'd see that you got exactly what O offers.  You certainly don't have to like it but you wouldn't have been disappointed either.   That's simply why there are multiple brands with different offerings.  Find one that suits you best.

Comments like "if it wasn't for the steak,  lobster and sushi  it would be the same " really take any credibility from a review for me.  You're complaining it's the same while litterally stating the improvements and differences.  

I also don't think it's reasonable to expect musicians to take requests.   A cruise has people from all over the world with different tastes and cultures.   How could a musician possibly know enough to cover every genre and take most requests?  You're setting them up to either look unprofessional because they feel pressured to perform something outside their range and then you complain how bad they are or to look rude when they don't take your request because they don't know it.  I've been to quite a few concerts,  Broadway shows,  symphonies,  etc and I don't recall them taking requests. 

I think you need to realize that while O may not fit your tastes, it also does not make it bad.

I'm going to go in a different direction.   Of course I'm making some big assumptions but you say this is a bucket list trip and it's going from Rome to Istanbul.   Those are two of the most incredible cities in the world.

I would suggest the concierge room and take the savings and use it to do something amazing and memorable in Rome, Istanbul or one of the other ports.   There's so much history,  art, food and culture to explore. 

1 hour ago, osandomir said:

I don’t completely understand what is the reason to discuss all negotiations, discounts and rebates here. It’s nice to have some savings while booking with a TA, but I see it as more of a business between us and our TA and not as a public announcement.

Isn't the point of this site to share and learn so you can have the best cruise possible?  Many would say paying less for the exact same cruise would enhance their experience and would like to hear the tips and tricks others use.

As with anything on the internet,  it's always possible to scroll by and not read or engage with something you don't like.

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

I suspect we will see similar increases on all lines not just O. Check out current Celebrity prices on the new ships. 

If they're filling ships why wouldn't you increase prices?  They'll only drop when bookings drop.

Kinda hard for the fan boys to keep defending the cuts in service with their war cry of covid debt when there's such a spending spree on news ships.

I'm excited to see the other O and industry announcements this week during the Seatrade show.

14 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

Having made cruise-only bookings pre-SM and post-SM, and comparing my two upcoming cruises, one SM & the other not, the "difference" for the same cruise & cabin made pre-versus post-SM was about an $800 price increase. That's a "lot of difference". Cash up front increase.

I understand your perspective.  But I'm personally ok with it as everything is more expensive and ships are full.  I expect to pay more now. Im also ok with them trying to make a price increase more palpable but wrapping it in a marketing exercise.   But I also get what other people aren't. 

What I'm not ok with is not providing something that's paid for. 

In addition to death and taxes, the only sure things in life are change and not being able to please everyone. 

I'm what the long time Oceania loyalists would call "new".  While I'm not young, let's just say my parents are regulars on O.  Weve outgrown the NCL Haven (or maybe their cut backs forced us away???) and want to upgrade. I'm totally fine with Simply More.  Is it the best thing ever?  No but it's tolerable and I don't see a ton of difference between my upcoming Simply More and O Life bookings. 

Having said all of that, I'm be pretty annoyed if O canceled a port or excision I booked and I couldn't at least use it as non-refundable onboard credit.  While I know I'd throw the money away on crap I don't really want it need, at least I'd be able to use it for something.   Taking money from me and canceling through no fault of mine but keeping the money is morally wrong to me.

If something like this was done at a land resort in the US, the Attorney General of that state go after them.  If the rationale is O needs money,  raise your fare by $100.  No one would care or not book.  This is just stupid. 

 I personally don't think it's malicious,  just incompetence from the corporate office and the shipboard crew have their hands tied.  But I also think there have been enough cases of this happening that management should be aware and have a solution.  

9 minutes ago, IAcruising said:

 

I recall you posting this same story, more than 2 weeks ago. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I didn't believe you then, and I don't believe you now.

 

Well, the cruise was March 10th through 17th, so yep 2 weeks.  

As to what you believe or not, absolutely meaningless.  I'll sleep well tonight whether a random stranger on the internet believes it or not.  Sadly, you'll still be here telling people that things like this don't happen and denying anything bad.  And now I'm going to stop wasting time on this.

2 weeks ago on the Epic our butler told us on the first day that he had too many rooms and we wouldn't see him all week.  And we didn't until the night before disembarking when he came to ask for a tip.

It's completely true that service varies.  However,  I don't really understand how you sell an upgraded service,  charge significantly more for it and have so many people here defend that you may but maybe not have good service. 

5 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Exactly!

 

There were only two questions of significance on that survey- both carefully worded/limited to elicit “support” of bad news for the current program. One was “which worse-than-now situation would you prefer?” And the other was to “rank order only 3 items” (instead of prioritizing all items) which, of course, will end up erroneously suggesting that the O Club is basically irrelevant.

 

In addition, not having a space for written comments on that survey is unconscionable when so many of us who are O long-haulers are a tremendous resource for informing O’s corporate decision-making regarding the policies that directly impact the guest experience.

 

Since the survey was sent under Neli Arias’ signature, I urge all of you who know Neli (or who have corresponded with her) over the years) to contact her with your concerns AND reasonable suggestions for actually improving the O Club experience. 
 

BTW: small though telling item: Have you noticed that the onboard O Club “Ambassadors” are now referred to only as “Future Cruise Consultants?” The seesaw has fully flipped from “service” to “sales.”

 

 

I don't think they're interested in improving the experience.   They're interested in lowering their costs as low as they can without losing their psychological effects of increasing bookings. 

People keep thinking that loyalty programs are about being loyal to each other.   Sadly they aren't two way streets.   They're simply marketing programs to increase revenue generation. That's totally fine but you must understand the reasoning and if the program is important to you,  learn the ins and outs to maximize your benefits. 

Loyalty programs change and evolve yo reflect the economy and bookings.   Ships are filled now.  They're going to cut their costs as there's simply no reason to spend more money to get the same return.  When the economy turns and bookings drop, they'll increase benefits or have special promotions to fill the rooms. But please don't ever buy into the fallacy that they're giving you things just to say thank you. 

So we're officially at the point where not only can NCL do no wrong for some but you can't even have empathy for people who have travel issues. 

We know that NCL air is nothing more than a travel agent booking the airfare and have no responsibility for flight issues.  But we also live in a society where car batteries have warnings on them that ylu shouldn't lick them.  I don't think it's wrong to suggest NCL could be a better job at the time of booking to clarify.   

And for those of you jumping on strangers who aren't even on this site about flying in the day of, realize that there was more than one day of bad weather.  Airlines are flying close to capacity,  especially to FL on spring break.   It may take 2 or 3 days for someone on a canceled flight to reach their destination.   Missing the ship doesn't make them stupid,  inexperienced or anything else.  It just means you don't know the whole story.   

Cut them a break.  Missing a vacation ypu spent months or years saving for can be heart breaking.   Let's try not to simply attack people and just understand how they feel.

And as I've said before,  a HUGE majority of the posts on the board are from the same handful of people.   New comers post once or twice and then disappear.   You aren't being helpful when you post things like many of the responses.   In fact,  you're killing the forum.

14 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Really? 

I can only assume it is OK with you if they simply didn't clean the bathrooms.  It has to be OK with you because if there is a razor and a loofa left behind, there is no way to know that they did clean the bathroom.  But that's OK, you can enjoy (or at least not be bothered by) someone else's filth.  I'm going to insist my room is cleaned and if that means someone gets fired, so be it.  

Realize there's some in this board who would tell the passengers on the Titanic they should be thankful they got to swim and saves calories by missing dessert for the rest of the trip. 

I don't think there's one person on here that would smile and be happy if they found a shower that appeared to be uncleaned upon embarkation.   Further,  I don't think any of the ships housekeeping supervisors would find it ok either. 

The kitchen staff is busy and over worked too.  Would it be OK if they missed some areas of the kitchen and some one got sick from cross contamination?  Or if the environmental officer was running late and they dumped raw sewage into the ocean?  Is it just a sliding scale where the employees can choose not to follow the policies and procedures or just blind cheerleading?

Ironically,  the cheerleaders are cheering against NCL's own policies and procedures. 

Finally,  let's stop this ridiculous attacks claiming people just want compensation whenever they have a complaint.   It's lazy, intellectually dishonest and is just an excuse to avoid a solution.   A dirty is a legitimate complaint.   It doesn't mean you want money, it means you want a clean room!

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Ahhh, so if we understand, folks who pay a much lower price (for their cruise) do not accrue any loyalty benefits other then to save money?  I guess this means that the folks actually are paying for those loyalty benefits which means they are not really a benefit but rather something bought and paid for!

 

This is not a criticism of Silversea but rather an eye opener for folks that get caught up in marketing hype such as "Sale of the Year" or "Loyalty benefits."  There is really no free lunch.  I find it amazing that folks, who will spend thousands or 10s of thousands with one particular cruise line, get excited about receiving a silly pin, a bag of free laundry (we like this benefit), etc.  On HAL, folks spend a lot of money to accrue the 500+ days necessary to reach 5* status which gets them a few benefits (such as free laundry).  But a first time cruiser can simply upgrade to "Club Orange" and get many of the same priorities that have been "earned" by those long time loyalists.  When a crusie line starts selling priority benefits to anyone it simply waters down benefits "earned" by long time cruisers (many of whom covet their status).  When everyone gets a "priority" benefit it means that nobody has priority.

 

Hank

Most people seem to think the "loyalty" in those programs is a two way street.   It's not.  It's simply to keep you loyal to them.

Sadly, most people don't realize that until they've spent large sums of money and the benefits begin to get watered down or, like you said, sold to anyone. 

I'm not quite sure why people would suggest a first time visitor to the UK skip London.   Some of the best museums in the world are there.  Westminster Abbey, Tower of London and the British Museum are not things to be missed.

Additionally,  I'd strongly recommend the Scottish Highlands.   Some absolutely incredible scenery as well as unique history.  If you like Scotch, you might want to stop in the Speyside and Islay areas as well.

We're currently on the Epic and let's simply say we've had some service issues.  Nothing major other than our room not cooling correctly and taking until day 5 (and dragging the hotel manager into the room) for them to actually solve the issue.

For the smaller issues, it felt like a good portion of the crew, between a third and half, chose to argue and look for a way to say no instead of yes.  Examples include:

-we skipped a port and I inquired about a shore excursion being refused to the credit card I used to purchase it 4 months pre-cruise.  I was told I booked it onboard and never used a credit card.   They continued to argue that I didn't use a credit card even after I offered to show their manager the charge on my app.  Then they switched to they don't have a manager.   I guess the "assistant" on his name tag proves he doesn't report to anyone 🙄

-we went to the buffet for breakfast one morning at 930 AM because the Haven restaurant was closed already.   Asked for fresh squeezed orange juice.  I was told they were out and "the early bird gets the worm", should have come earlier.   This was day 3 and we litterally just came from the behind the scenes tour and saw hundreds of cases of oranges.   There were also stacks of oranges in 5 places on the buffet. 

-we met our butler on tbe 1st day.  He told us his rooms were spread out and we wouldn't see him all week.  And we basically haven't. He also ignored our basic requests for distilled water,  not to bring sweet treats to the room as my wife is diabetic and claimed we never told him about the AC issue despite him giving me a 10 minute lecture (during our first day meeting) about how I'm using the AC wrong. 

There are probably a dozen more interactions that I felt could have been handled significantly better but I don't really want to spend all my time writing them all down.   And yes, i know none of them other than the AC is a major issue but they are annoyances.  The point is we felt the service among a good amount of the crew was poor and my wife and I discussed removing or reducing the DSC.  However,  the amazing crew were equally in number to the bad.  And with such a quantity of bad crew, it's a management issue, not an employee issue.  

We decided it wasn't right to punish the good crew and would rather bad crew get something they don't deserve than good crew lose something they've earned when they work so hard.  We will be keep the DSC and since the Butler isn't part of the pool,  we will take half of what we were going to give him and distribute it (and more) to the crew that have gone out of their way for us.

My wife would suggest buying 9 more and be fabulous every night.

She'd probably ask for a new purse and pair of shoes for each dress too.

2 hours ago, ORV said:

I've got none of the loyalty level bags or caps. They started those after our 20th and although we asked for the Platinum one it was denied. I'll working on Diamond just to get that darn hat & bag. 🤑

It's like a call center.  When you don't get what you want, politely thank them and ask someone else.   

IMHO it's better to nag everyone on the ship then book a cruise for a cheap hat 😜