rederob
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Posts posted by rederob
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On 4/18/2019 at 4:13 AM, FredZiffle said:
No one really knows. The cruise lines will tell you that if you take a tour with them, you've met the requirements. I've also read promotions that stated if you take a tour one day, you can go off on your own the next.
OFAC do actually explain how it works. That is, spend more time on compliant activities than non-compliant activities.
OFAC cannot require an itinerary under Support for the Cuban People, but they can ask for a record of your transactions.
So yes, under SFTCP you can pretty well do as you please.
On 4/18/2019 at 6:55 AM, FredZiffle said:Or, do you mean the affidavits? That's a good question. I would guess that they are turned in the Government since it really would be ridiculous to require everyone to fill them out, but then not require that they be turned in. That would truly show how unimportant they actually are.
Well, the government never sees them as the requirement is for the parties to keep copies, and have them available upon request. They really are not important right now.
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8 minutes ago, awells said:
I am just curious as to how you ended up traveling to Cuba. Did you check "People to People" or "Support of the Cuban People"? We will be traveling through Carnival Paradise soon. So far Carnival is telling me my family cannot travel through "support of the Cuban People".
Carnival are deceiving you - nothing requires you to do as they say, and in fact the opposite is the case: you determine the reason for travel.
Nevertheless, many before you have ticked any box and never bothered about what they did once in Cuba.
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3 hours ago, ebslcc said:
Agree. There were a lot of half truths from
the lecturer and the cruise line’s official responses on OFAC compliance. Mire about this later. Thanks.
The "rules" require receipts to be kept for up to 5 years, irrespective of what OFAC category you choose.
If you choose "people to people" (because you were told to) then the rules prohibit you from participating in any activities unless you are accompanied by a US citizen facilitating your "educational activities".
If you choose OFAC's "support for the Cuban people" then the rules do not allow OFAC to require you to present to them a schedule of your activities. The opposite is the case if you choose people to people.
That said, OFAC has not been enforcing its rules for around 20 years (for individual travellers).
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On 12/10/2018 at 1:51 AM, ebslcc said:
Here is a interesting one from our lecturer on board. Is it safe to eat ice cream in Cuba? He is recommending NOT to have ice cream and popsicles from local street vendors! Our stomachs are just not the same.
I was 3 weeks in Cuba eating ice creams from local vendors in 6 different cities without a problem. The quality was excellent.
I would take the cruise line advice with a pinch of salt.
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2 hours ago, serene56 said:
So you can just walk off the ship without a paid excursion (to do the people to people?
I am guessing that part has changed since i started looking into cruising to Cuba.
Last i looked you could NOT just walk around. As an american we can not go to Cuba as a tourist but could go there for education. (did this change?)
Nothing has changed that prevents you walking off the ship without an excursion because it was never a requirement to begin with.
Most travellers from the USA to Cuba select the OFAC reason "support for the Cuban people" because it lets you walk around like a tourist while supporting the Cuban people - no surprise there 😎. Choosing OFAC's §515.565 Educational activities is the most restrictive of all travel reasons, but as OFAC are not checking, it tends to be a non-issue.
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On 11/2/2018 at 4:20 AM, Cruiser933 said:
Has anybody figured out what a "full-time schedule of activities" means under OFAC? We arrive on a Saturday afternoon, stay overnight, and sail away Sunday at 5. I have a three hour walking tour which claims to be OFAC compliant planned for both days, but I am wondering if this is long enough to be considered "full-time".
In theory, all your activities are supposed to comply with your OFAC authorisation, which is why in theory cruise line travellers should never choose people to people. In practice, OFAC has not been checking for almost 20 years.
Choosing "support for the Cuban people" is the only OFAC authorisation which mentions "free time or recreation" being available, so long as it is less than compliant activities. So when passengers disembark and choose a local tour operator for the majority of their time ashore, they will nearly always meet the theoretical OFAC requirement.
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1 hour ago, Go-Bucks! said:
What does this mean?
It means that the information on many cruise line websites is wrong with respect what is allowable under OFAC's "people to people" travel authorisations.
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12 hours ago, machotspur said:
With respect, I am not sure what you are saying is entirely correct.
We are planning to travel to Cuba with Seabourn next year. They, like some other operators are clearly saying that once you have completed their 'People to People' tour for the day, then you are entirely free to go wherever you want, as an independent tourist, disconnected from the Seabourn lead. This is very clear on their website, and we have also confirmed this with their office.
So - if one is in a Cuban city for a long overnight stop, you can do a 2-3 hour tour with the cruise line first thing in the morning, and then have say 10 hours free to do whatever you want independently.
This is before one even considers ignoring the cruise line half truths that are being put out there, and ticking the 'Support for the Cuban People' box instead of/as well as 'People to People'. This is probably what we intend doing, as we plan to arrange a mix of ship tours and independent activities.
With respect, I rely on what OFAC would use to enforce compliance (which is clearly not presently the case), and is written here in the CACR: §515.565 b) General license for people-to-people travel. The travel-related transactions set forth in §515.560(c) and such additional transactions as are directly incident to educational exchanges not involving academic study pursuant to a degree program are authorized, provided that:
(1) The exchanges take place under the auspices of an organization that is a person subject to U.S. jurisdiction and that sponsors such exchanges to promote people-to-people contact;
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11 hours ago, machotspur said:
With respect, I am not sure what you are saying is entirely correct.
We are planning to travel to Cuba with Seabourn next year. They, like some other operators are clearly saying that once you have completed their 'People to People' tour for the day, then you are entirely free to go wherever you want, as an independent tourist, disconnected from the Seabourn lead. This is very clear on their website, and we have also confirmed this with their office.
So - if one is in a Cuban city for a long overnight stop, you can do a 2-3 hour tour with the cruise line first thing in the morning, and then have say 10 hours free to do whatever you want independently.
This is before one even considers ignoring the cruise line half truths that are being put out there, and ticking the 'Support for the Cuban People' box instead of/as well as 'People to People'. This is probably what we intend doing, as we plan to arrange a mix of ship tours and independent activities.
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8 hours ago, Southside Mike said:
We've booked a 1:00pm excursion with Norwegian. My question is can we leave the ship to walk around Havana on our own prior to the excursion without a problem?
Thanks
Mike, technically you cannot disembark the ship by yourself if you have chosen "people to people". However, as stated above, nobody will be checking.
(The reason why is that if you are not with your sponsoring organisation all the time, they cannot satisfy OFAC's record keeping requirements - because clearly they do not know what else you did!)
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First, your OFAC travel affidavit is only lodged once for travel to Cuba, and that sole reason for travel then applies to all ports of call.
Not that it will matter, but if you choose "people to people" as your OFAC reason, then whenever you go ashore you must always be accompanied by your excursion organiser's representative/s, and never by yourself.
For cruise line passengers the theoretical best OFAC travel reason will nearly always be "support for the Cuban people".
With regard to converting currency the only "rule" is that you are not supposed to carry back home any CUC, so convert back after your last shore visit. (I still have a few CUC and nobody from Cuba is chasing after me 😇.)
With regard to your visa, it's good for your whole voyage - Cuban immigration will check your passport each time you leave your ship to go ashore as it will have been "stamped" at your first disembarkation.
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Kathy, while you and I do care how tourism affects countries we travel to - as it impacts on those travellers who follow - there will always be some who fail to understand.
On topic, while no excursions are required, those who prefer to negotiate with drivers will get prices nearer 30CUC per hour (not 30 minutes), while 80 CUC will get you a car for the better part of a whole day. Those who do not will instead pay the asking price which is usually 50CUC per hour, and "tip" on top of that.
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This might be helpful as well:
That's a great link, and puts a lot into perspective.
While the Cuba Restricted List precludes transactions at a number of establishments, it does not stop you visiting them and looking around.
This site puts cruise travel into perspective when worrying about which OFAC choice to make: http://forums.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/t/cruise-line-passengers-to-cuba-which-ofac-category/23708
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Why do you care how I chose to spend my money? Odd that you would even post such a ridiculous comment.
You were asked a question, and you respond that it was a ridiculous comment.
Of course you are welcome to pay as much for 30 minutes as I would to a driver for a full day. So the issue is not what YOU are spending, but what would be a reasonable expectation. I doubt you would go to another country and pay a driver the equivalent of 2 month's wages for short ride in a nice convertible.
Local operators are able to provide a driver and guide for a day from $100, and many on cruises take that option over an expensive cruise-line excursion.
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Ok, this thread has made me feel much better about booking a tour with a private individual rather than the cruise line in Cuba. I do have one question though. It seems the State Department suggests the entire day must be filled with some kind of educational tour. But what if we do a car tour for 2 hours or so in the morning, get back on the ship for a few hours, and then do another car tour in the evening? Is that ok? Or do we need to schedule an entire day of activities, filling up 6 to 8 hours of our time on shore? I will be traveling with someone who is limited on how much they can do at any one time.
Not sure where you got the information, but under "support for the Cuban people" it is possible to do exactly what you plan and be fully compliant with OFAC.
Choosing OFAC's Educational activities is generally a poor choice in terms of theoretical compliance.
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In reality, using "Support for the Cuban People" is at best a stretch and at worst a direct violation of the rules. You are asserting that your tourism activities "promote independent activity intended to strengthen civil society in Cuba."
But, as FredZiffle says, it doesn't matter. The tightening of the rules by the Trump administration is there to satisfy dead-enders in south Florida and has no impact on the traveler. Check whatever box you want and enjoy your visit to Cuba.
It is important to distinguish "tourism" as we travellers understand it, from OFAC compliance. Unlike your claim, OFAC compliance for cruise passengers is exceptionally easy under support for the Cuban people because they will not be supporting military/government controlled enterprises when on a private tour (full details here: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=48ffc5f4fc1dbae779881d71644adef4&mc=true&n=sp31.3.515.e&r=SUBPART&ty=HTML#se31.3.515_1574. From what I have read from returning passengers, those checking "people to people" as their OFAC travel reason are seldom compliant. But the reality is that without enforcement of OFAC, it seems only to be a matter of conscience as to what care you take when choosing the proper reason for your travel.
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Mine is pink and blue
Like this one which is issued by Royal Caribbean: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=vAF%2fNAY5&id=181C7F9940CB693EF5072F9564B5A09B6BAEC79C&thid=OIP.vAF_NAY53W-C-LatP85NkgHaDf&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cruisehabit.com%2fsites%2fdefault%2ffiles%2fpictures%2fcuban_visa_blank_650.jpg&exph=306&expw=650&q=Royal+Caribbean+Visa+Cuba&simid=608012417930038041&selectedIndex=52&ajaxhist=0
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You also have to purchase Cuban health insurance which is usually done by the cruiseline. The cost of it is bundled into the $75 fee along with the visa.
I have never heard of that arrangement being the case for visas, but I know of several cruise lines which bundle medical insurance into the ticket price (NCL for examples provides great advice). My suspicion is that all do, but I have not checked every cruise line's details.
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Visas issued by US carriers/cruise lines for travel to Cuba are supposed to be "pink". I suspect yours is green.
That said, suppliers of visas are supposed to ensure you are eligible for the type of visa you have purchased. If there is going to be a problem, it might be more of an issue when boarding your cruise rather than at Cuban immigration.
I have in the past emailed Aduana and got helpful replies, so if you are still concerned, maybe that's a good next step.
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I understand that we don’t need a visa if we don’t get off the ship. Thank you
If you are on an NCL cruise and you have not arranged to purchase a visa to enter Cuba, then NCL will deny you boarding: https://www.ncl.com/au/en/freestyle-cruise/cruise-travel-documents
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If you have chosen People to People as your OFAC authorisation then whoever is arranging your "educational activities" can be asked to provide all details about your activities and expenditure in Cuba. In other words, If you choose P2P you do not have to personally be responsible for any record keeping (eg an itinerary).
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thanks, I keep on getting emails from NCL that I need to book an excursion so I can get off the ship in Cuba, as they put it on paper without an excursion I will be stuck on the ship …. :o
This site details OFAC requirements, and also puts to bed some specific cruise line claims: http://forums.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/t/people-to-people-p2p-tours-and-the-cruise-line-spin/23741
Unless you read carefully all the information on NCL's certification form, you will be mislead into believing there is only one option. In fact there are many options and I regard P2P as generally the worst choice unless you do nothing other than the cruise line tours.
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No justRobme, and how the HELL do you book your own Self Guided Tour?
If a passenger were able to reasonably choose that box, it's a program (read "schedule of self guided activities") they would have developed prior to travelling, rather than a "tour" offered by any agency.
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SELF-GUIDED PROGRAM (ONLY PERMITTED FOR PASSENGER BOOKINGS MADE BEFORE JUNE 16, 2017) - While in Cuba, I plan to be on a “self-guided” program of people-to-people educational exchange activities
(31 C.F.R. § 515.565(b)
So you booked before 16 June 2017?
Support for the Cuban people, be prepared
in Cuba
Posted
Anything is possible, but the USA is for more concerned with China, Iran, North Korea and a very long list of other countries before worrying about Cuba.
Also, past regulatory changes have not been regressive, so people with booked travel are not likely to be affected.
Perhaps more importantly, it's an economic embargo on Cuba, so restricting travel to Cuba will continue to be fraught with regulatory loopholes that tourism operators will be able to work around.