rederob

I looked at your link and I still do not see anywhere that using the SFTCP prohibits the OFAC from asking you to furnish an itinerary should you be audited. Where does it state that?

Also, are we sure that the cruise lines store away the affidavits and don't forward them to the OFAC? I see that stated over and over here, but where did that info come from?

First, the requirement to keep records lies with the holder rather than with OFAC. OFAC can audit at their discretion. Below info is from CACR:

Title 31: Money and Finance: Treasury

PART 501—REPORTING, PROCEDURES AND PENALTIES REGULATIONS

§501.601 Records and recordkeeping requirements.

Secondly, this covers what OFAC can demand:

§501.602 Reports to be furnished on demand.

This is exact topic has been stressing me out....

All OFAC issues are covered at another site, while yours is specifically dealt with here: http://forums.debbiescaribbeanresortreviews.com/t/people-to-people-p2p-tours-and-the-cruise-line-spin/23741

IMHO only P2P is likely to cause concerns for any travellers to Cuba as this is the only one which can demand a full-time schedule of your activities, plus a record of your expenditure.

For the reasons outlined in the link SFTCP will generally be the easier option.

The bottom line is that cruise lines are indulging in misleading and deception practices, aside from not understanding what OFAC requires.

Thanks, really appreciate feedback from someone who actually has real world cruise experience to Cuba vs "Google Experience"

I learned the rules which governed my travels to Cuba from the USA and chose to abide by them. On returning to the USA from one particular trip I was interviewed by US Customs about the purpose of my travel. I'm not sure how many trips to Cuba are required before travellers understand the difference between what OFAC requires and what Cuba requires, although for me it was important to know before I went.

I always balance my detailed knowledge of OFAC with my real world experience of travelling to Cuba, so I can respond to posters with both theory and practice. What readers take away from that is up to them.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of an attitude of "no one checks to make sure you're compliant because no one cares,"

No, what I suggested is that a schedule matters. You implied that it did not. It clearly does matter what you are actually doing, and if you are audited it is important to be able to prove your activities qualified under the SFTCP license. As the OFAC points out, spending time on the beach does not comply with the license, even if you spend most of your day "supporting the Cuban people."

I go by what OFAC publish in the CACR. OFAC can only require a record of your activities if you go under P2P, and cannot require them under SFCTP.

Furthermore, under SFTCP you are allowed "free time or recreation", so no problem going to the beach. Under P2P there is no mention of free time or recreation being available.

As I said, the visa has nothing to do with OFAC, so not sure what point you are making.

Embarking, you can tick the box that suits your travel, irrespective of cruise line, as it has no impact on disembarking in Cuba.

In Cuba, if you choose P2P you are theoretically locked in to an Educational activities program - I have not seen that what cruise lines offer is actually compliant, so I suspect if cruise lines can get away with non compliance, their passengers are not going to be bothered.

I have read RCI's FAQs for Cuba, and it is clear they do not understand OFAC.

Yes, I am aware of travellers being fined, but not recently as OFAC is not resourced to "police" individual travel.

As I see it, the USA has travel rules for going to Cuba and individuals can make up their own minds as to how they want to proceed.

If you want to be compliant, it's easy to follow the rules at OFAC. People who think OFAC regulations are confusing probably have not actually looked at them and rely on the misguided for their views.

If you do not want to be compliant, then tick any box.

Note however that it's about OFAC and has absolutely nothing to do with your visa to enter Cuba.

The OFAC website gives some examples of what would constitute SFTCP, and they specifically state, for example, that a person staying in independently owned establishments, eating in local restaurants, spending time talking to locals, and spending time at the beach surfing would not qualify for SFTCP status as it is not consistent with a full time schedule required under the SFTCP license.

Not quite as you suggest:

Example 1 to §515.574:

Because the individual's qualifying activities are not limited to staying in a room at a rented accommodation in a private Cuban residence (casa particular), eating at privately-owned Cuban restaurants (paladares), and shopping at privately owned stores run by self-employed Cubans (cuentapropista) and the traveler maintains a full-time schedule that enhances contact with the Cuban people, supports civil society in Cuba, and promotes the Cuban people's independence from Cuban authorities, and that results in meaningful interaction between the traveler and Cuban individuals, the individual's travel qualifies for the general license.

However, I agree that OFAC includes many helpful examples for travellers concerned about compliance.

It seems to me that the "Support for the Cuba People" guidelines is very broadly written and very subjective.

Many say that, but I disagree. The only matter for "interpretation" is what constitutes a compliant "activity".

In any case, under SFTCP OFAC can only audit your financial transactions, and not your activities. That being the case, you really only have to worry about the CRL, if you worry at all.

I have read what many tour companies offer, and if they hold a specific license, then it should be detailed. Insight for example say this "InsightCuba guests will receive a certification of travel to Cuba authorized by the U.S. Department of the Treasury general license." So they actually do not have a specific license. Road Scholar apparently rely on their former specific licence, however that would have been ok until November 2017, but not afterwards.

I have read all the cruise line's blurb on their tours/excursions and its mostly non compliant nonsense. Passenger assurance is only via the legal requirement that if ever you chose P2P on a cruise line excursion, it is the cruise line who carries the can if an OFAC audit were ever failed. The chance of OFAC auditing your travel is probably as good as you holidaying on the moon.

In most cases choosing "support for the Cuban people" is going to be the best option for passengers as if you were ever audited OFAC cannot require you to produce an itinerary of your activities, only your expenditure. (see https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/501.602 ). Those choosing P2P must furnish both.

I have used Havanajourneys twice & they are compliant. City day tour is $100 for 2 or 3 people.

Maybe they are compliant with "support for the Cuban people", but they certainly are not ok for P2P.

So, we can just leave the boat when we get to Havana? I was under the impression that you had to have an excursion booked? Also, I already submitted the affidavit that stated that I would do a People to People excursion through Norwegian or another group. Should I change it or will I be fine. I am sorry for all of the questions. I don't want to get there and get into any trouble.

First, you will be fine because OFAC is not likely to ever ask about what you did, given the millions before you untroubled since around 2000.

Secondly, NCL has indulged in practices which in Australia would land them with severe financial penalties for misleading or deceptive conduct. While they include a form to certify a reason for travel, their website suggests the only option is one of the "Educational Activities" - which is a bald faced lie.

Finally, Irrespective of what you sent to NCL, the only thing which (legally) matters will be what you end up doing as compliant activities, and where you spend your money.

If you end up "supporting the Cuban people", OFAC cannot even require you to present a schedule of your activities (but most Cuba watchers think they won't bother you anyways).

Thank you for the reply.

….I don't see them listed directly on the OFAC "Restricted" list, but that doesn't mean they aren't being run by a holding company. I don't expect to ever get audited, but would hate to list "restricted" places on my "full schedule of activities" just in case...

Two points:

1. Only those choosing People to People are required under OFAC to present on demand their full-time schedule of activities
   
2. Everybody travelling, however, can be required by OFAC to present on demand their financial transactions while in Cuba
   

Visiting an entity on the CRL, or any other place, cannot of itself cause any concern regarding OFAC compliance. Only worry about your financial transactions, if you worry at all (and most will not).

Nothing stops you going to any place in Cuba. Even places on the Cuba Restricted List can be visited, and the only limitation is that those under US jurisdiction should not be involved in direct financial transactions (ie. spend money) with them.

If you self certify travel under "support the Cuban people", then interact with them wherever you go, and your trip is OFAC compliant, not that US Authorities are checking.

It is actually included in the fare.

Good to know.

I hope Viking also tell their passengers that if they are from one of the 20 countries (including the likes of India and the Philippines) which require a "sticky" visa, then they must make separate arrangements via Cuban Embassies or Consulates.

I agree.

The link to the Visa application process with Viking does not include the option of Support for the Cuban people. I am calling today to figure out how to acquire this Visa ( not Viking as they are not being truthful).

The visa is a tourist visa and is required by the Cuban Government to enter Cuba. Viking make this available to you (ie. you buy it), and it has zero to do with taking tours/excursions.

Totally separate is a form you must complete and which is kept by Viking. This form seeks a reason for travel (it's is OFAC requirement [ie. Treasury Dep't of US Government], and if you tick the box

My email with Jaden of Viking about the visa.

Me: You are stating the Viking does not allow anyone off the ship unless they are on an excursion provided by Viking?

 

Jaden: It is actually something that Cuba enforces. We can offer ablanket Visa for you to visit but you do have to stay with us as tour guides. Iam unsure if it is possible to obtain a visa on your own to explore Cubawithout taking a pre-planned tour.

 

You will be issued with a Cuban Tourist Visa. As stated by nicedream, Cuba will not worry about how you enjoy your holiday (OFAC compliant of course ;p).

You will be asked by Viking to complete a separate certification for your travel reason, in accordance with an OFAC general licence category. Support for the Cuban people is the best option for independent travellers not wanting to join tour groups.

Jaden's advice about tour and visa requirements is not sound.

People to People is actually an "educational exchange" and need not even be a "tour".

An essential requirement for compliance is that

Just fill the box that the check in agent tells you to fill in.

I would complete all the form X 2 but leave this section blank until instructed by the pier agent.

 

We saw many, many people having to refill the forms because they had checked the wrong box.

This slowed the whole boarding process down .

If you really don't care about this part of the process, that's fine as the form will never be reconciled with anything - it's a carrier's requirement to have it available to OFAC on demand.

If you do care, and someone else insists you change your certification, you could always turn the tables by taking their name and telling them you will report them to the authorities for coercion.

There will usually be a box to tick on your OFAC travel certification (or affidavit - depending on the cruise line) for support for the Cuban people - that's the one that lets you independently arrange what you do ashore.

Ok, so if I already filled out the form, is there a way to redo it? I really would like to do something else when I return from my excursion.

If you have already lodged the form electronically, do not worry.

Irrespective of what you lodged, the only thing which counts is what you did in Cuba, and which would therefore be consistent with an authorised category of travel.

If you intend to do other things after your excursion and your expenditure "supports the Cuban people" then you are likely to be compliant with OFAC requirements.

Many passengers only pay lip service to OFAC, but actual compliance is almost guaranteed for independent travellers on cruises once ashore.

Do not worry about the affidavit you sent to NCL - it can never be reconciled with your trip unless you are audited, and that is as likely as you being on a rocket to Mars.

Those who have been to Cuba on Carnival my question is does Carnival provide the travel affidavit somewhere before we board or must we print the whole thing ourselves? Thanks.

Carnival's website advice says this

I’m hoping someone can help answer my question. ... Does anyone know if I can do that or should I just go back on the ship. Thanks in advance for your help.

If you do not care, then you can write anything as your travel reason.

However, if you want to do the right thing according to OFAC, then if you do something after your excursion, of which the tour organiser is not aware, then you must not select the "people to people" authorisation. People to people does not allow "free time or recreation" despite what cruise lines may say.

The safest OFAC compliance option for cruise travellers will mostly be "support for the Cuban people" unless after your approved excursion/s you never foot on Cuban soil again during your trip.

@rederob

Over many threads, you continually tell posters they are wrong with what they want to tip. You referred us to a huge thread that really did not address the issue. So, why don't you just come out and give an example of an appropriate tip?

I have definitely never said what you claim.

If you are comfortable with what you, personally, tip for service, then that's a matter for you. Tipping for good to exceptional service seems appropriate.

I suggest that when people do tip, they are also sensitive to how it sits in that culture. For example, when I travel to the US I tip service staff significantly more than I do at home. That's because my server at lunch last Sunday is paid an award wage of $34.07/hour and I know that's a lot more than she would be paid in the US.

In Cuba a day's wage is around 2CUC, so receiving that amount as a tip is relatively generous. To you or me it's probably just loose change.

Nowadays many highly qualified Cubans are working in the hospitality industry because they can earn in tips in a day or two more than they would otherwise earn in a month.

We just did a six hour tour with guide and driver last week, the tour was 130 so figuring 20 percent we gave the driver 25 and went above that for the guide since he was with us the whole time and went over and beyond our expectations , so we gave him 40

Your 50% tip would have been greatly appreciated, but does not sit well in a thread on "guidelines" for tipping. Many world travellers are sensitive to cultural differences and would not regard tips equivalent to more than a month's wages as appropriate. It would have been equivalent to me tipping our Grand Canyon tour guide about $6000 some months back.

... I work for an international hospitality company that has a hotel in Cuba. This particular hotel is listed in the "Do not go" list! I was hoping to do a site inspection of the hotel when originally decided to go to Cuba, but I guess now that I know the hotel is "black listed" I cant! Does anyone knows why are these establishments on this list and if there is any "exceptions" like working for the company that represents this particular hotel in Europe? I live in the States so that might be taken into consideration and "black-ball" me too!!! LOL

Who said you cannot go? I am curious about where travellers get this poor advice.

Providing you, personally, make no direction financial transaction at the hotel, you are free to go and do whatever else you want.

There is another travel forum which has discussed these issues in detail if you are interested.