Itzmeigh

Baloney 90% of dogs let on have fake papers and outfits that are bought online because our seniors feel entitled to whatever they can get away with

Just the way of the world today

The rules don’t apply to me!!!

 

 

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To be fair, any dog “with papers” to prove they are a service dog are FAKE PAPERS because there is no certifying agency and no certification required or suggested or offered (other than scams) in the US.

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I think it's time to give her avatar status so all can see

Let’s don’t. There are lots of dog forums where John&LaLa can go share all the dog pictures they want. And I’m sure there are Balcony Forums where they can share Balcony pictures.

If we are casting votes I’ll cast mine for “attention seeking” and I’ll back that up with the fact that after being asked to stop “they” only did it more and argued it wasn’t annoying.

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Does anyone have good advice on how to pack for a cruise and pre- and post- cruise travel as well without taking too many bags? I'm especially worried about shoes. We are doing 2 nights at Universal Studios, then a 7 night Caribbean cruise on Royal Caribbean out of Port Canaveral, then 3 nights at Disney.

 

I'm worried about comfortable shoes for the parks, then dressy shoes for formal nights plus flip flops and maybe one other pair? Are water shoes a must? We are going in early December. We will be flying down so that is a consideration as well.

 

As far as noticing what people wear, some people own multiples of the same thing. At work, I am sort of a "uniform" dresser. Navy top or sweater depending on the season, dark jeans, flat shoes, simple jewelry. I own multiple pairs of the exact same jeans. My clothes vary a bit more when I travel but still pretty simple.

You could try combining types of shoes. Keen or Keen style shoes (you can google) are comfortable to walk a lot in and work well as water shoes.

Flip flops don’t take up space so we always pack a few pair each.

We are leaving Sunday on Royal and for my 13 year old I packed 2 pair of dress shoes (because neither pair matches both formal outfits [emoji849]) a pair of tennis shoes that are mesh so are like water shoes. He’ll wear flip flops on the ship and I’ll toss another pair or 2 in his bag “just in case”.

For me I packed a pair of sandals that will match either dress (I don’t wear heels) and 2 pair of Keens and I’ll wear or take some flip flops.

Hubby packed the same watershoe/tennis shoe as son, dress shoes, and tennis shoes. He doesn’t wear sandals or flip flops.

I think we should be good.

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I packed patterned skirts for dinner and just solid tops to match. Then I packed shorts and leggings that match the tops. My plan is to wear a top to dinner one night and then wear that shirt the next day (or so) with shorts/bottoms.

My husband packed similarly. My son, I feel like we over packed for him but kids are gross.

But I tend to overpack, bringing a couple of outfits a day when in reality, even at home, I’m fine rewearing a shirt or shorts if I only wore them a few hours and know they aren’t dirty.

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Speaking of "pet free" apartments, I mentioned this thread (and the continuing saga) to my 20 year old daughter yesterday. She is in college and mentioned that when she was in the dorm last year several girls on her floor had "emotional support animal" cats, despite the fact that pets are not allowed in the dorm. She also said that one of the girls lets her cat roam the hallways of the floor. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

She's disappointed that she can't bring her two pet cockatiels to school with her in the Fall, as her apartment has a "no pets" policy that includes birds (she checked). Maybe I should suggest that she purchase "Service Animal" flightsuits for them to skirt the "No Pets" rule. :evilsmile: (Just kidding--we wouldn't actually do that--but I'm sure plenty of people do!)

Well, arguably, she doesn’t even need any kind of jacket because there is no such thing.

People can put whatever they want on an animal and it doesn’t matter. A Service Animal doesn’t require any kind of vest or leash or jacket or sticker or hanging tag, or be certified by any agency... it just has to actually preform a service (that doesn’t include cuddles!).

All ESA did was allow people to have their pets with them.

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I was thinking of other parents who do have 12 year old girls who would not want a 16year old (wasn’t the cousin 16?j in the same program. Because things in middle school and teen programs on ships are - as others have said - not all that structured all the time.

Oh right. I don’t agree with aging down. (even though I did kind of ask that) I don’t ever mind anyone choosing to age up as long as the rest of the older group isn’t held to the younger standard.

So, my 13 year old would gladly play a game of ball with older kids. Often you find that when there is a mixed group of abilities the more advanced younger kids prefer the older groups.

I guess, my real question is maybe how structured are the groups. It looks like one of those questions where there isn’t a firm answer and we will just see what happens when we get there.

I’m not really all that into the idea of a teens club anyway so it isn’t really something we plan on pushing on them.

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Depending on the numbers, they may combine the teen groups together, but as has been mentioned chances are the high schoolers are not going to want to 'hang out' with 12 year olds. And some parents may not want 17 year old boys hanging out with their 12 year old daughters. Particularly since the teen groups do not have any adult supervision.

 

 

Since neither group has any adult supervision outside of the teen room, they'll quickly form their own cliques anyways.

My son’s not 12. He’s 13. If he were 12 that would defiantly be different.

And I don’t really want them “hanging out”. If they are actively playing a game that’s one thing. (I’ve heard there’s soccer and dodge ball.) but neither of the boys with us are into “hanging out” so that isn’t really a concern for me.

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Your last point is exactly what I was going to say. Just magical access to the teen club ends at midnight on a kid’s 18th birthday (though liability enters in there as s/he would be a legal adult), I do not see them letting a high schooler in with middle schoolers.

Your logic is flawed.

At 14 years old my son will be a freshman in high school the whole year. But still in with “middle schoolers”. (He turns the next age as he leaves a grade. So, he just left 7th grade and turned 13.

My nephew who goes to school in a different state and district and who’s birthday is in October vs May, only entered High School this year (2017/2018 year) at 15 years old and turned 16. Their 8th and 9th grade is together in “Junior High” while our 9th graders are part of high school.

My 13 year old son currently plays soccer with some 15 year olds because of the way his birthday falls and because we live in a smaller town.

So, that line between high school and middle school can get oddly blurred.

I wasn’t asking for anything special or any kind of judgement. I was just wondering if they are strict about age groups.

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Here’s another question...

It sounds like you sign them up with the younger group. Do you sign up the teens or do they just show up?

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With that sort of age gap, neither will be allowed out of their "age range". There will be plenty of time for the cousins to do things together...just not in the clubs!

If that’s the case then they will probably neither go. They live out of state from each other they like to hang out together the few times they see each other. Plus, both being only kids, they rarely are attracted to groups.

Maybe it will depend on how many kids are on the sailing. (I’m not doubting you, it’s something we’ve experienced a lot. Most often when it comes to a sport activity my son is allowed to prove he can hang and then allowed to play with the older group. But not always. So, we understand. It isn’t something we expect.)

I guess we will find out in a few days!!

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Again, I have no problem with people with real disabilities bringing certified service animals wherever they go. It just bothers me when people abuse the system with silly things like "comfort" pets.

The “problem is” there IS NO CERTIFYING AGENCY.

So...

And I’m not really convinced anyone is abusing anything. Currently, if RC didn’t want dogs on board they’d just say no. But they don’t. That means, regardless of the guise used, RC allowed it to happen.

ESA are not Service Animals and are not protected under ADA. all RC has to do is say “No”.

I see the same argument with cases of water. Obviously RC doesn’t mind people bringing cases of water or they’d say NO. Cruise lines and airlines have no problem rejecting other banned objects. It’d be awfully easy to ban dogs and water but they let them trough for whatever reason.

The need isn’t for “tougher laws/rules” the need is for RC to follow the current laws/rules but for whatever reason they have decided not to.

If that bothers you sail with someone else or don’t sail, money speaks the loudest.

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I'm sorry but your dog comforting you is not a medical need. Just my opinion.

Says you. But if you have debilitating anxiety or rage issues it could be.

That was my point. You actually didn’t ready my whole post or you’d have read that I have repeatedly said ESA are NOT service animals. And that I’d NEVER TAKE MY DOG SOMEWHERE UNDER SUCH A CLAIM. Your point loses merit when you quote out of context because basically you are agreeing with me. I said exactly that in my post.

My comparison was that people are saying that a dog in clothes can’t do their job. I was saying that depends on their job. If their “job” is to provide comfort (as the ADA currently describes an ESA, like it or not) then they most certainly CAN do that while dressed up or painted blue or riding in a stroller.

Problem is, the ADA lessened the value of a service dog by including a subgroup with an amazingly broad definition.

I’ll also agree with the person that argued that even a seeing eye or hearing dog is not medical equipment.

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I have a similar situation. We are traveling with cousins who are 13 and 16, so 2 different age groups. The 13 year old is mine and he is very mature for his age and would have no problem playing in a group of 15-17 year olds. The 16 year old is my nephew and is “globally delayed” he is more on target with the abilities in the 12-14 group. But would be fine in the 15-17 group as well.

How strictly do they stick to the age ranges? Can the boys stick together with one age group or the other or will they have to split with their actual age groups? (To clarify, I’d prefer my 13 year old stay in the 12-14 year old range. But in something like dodgeball or soccer he could easily “hang with the big boys” if it meant playing with his cousin.

I guess, like the OP, Im wondering how strictly they stick to the age ranges.

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Sorry I think you might have miss understood. We boarded in Southampton. We had been sailing four hours which sounds a lot but 2 hours of this was restricted speed because of the estuary. We were still just off the coast of England when I fell. Paying for the medical evac was never an issue. My hip was time sensitive and as it turns out the time lost has caused the fracture to get worse.

 

We never did see any official from the port agent

While 4 hours doesn’t sound like a lot to you, turning a massive cruise ship around and returning to a port isn’t exactly that cut and dry.

First, they need an area large enough to turn in - while the waters around you might LOOK really large with no land in sight that can be very misleading to what’s under the surface. Ships draw a lot of water. Sometimes ship channels are dug deep but the water to the sides is too shallow for the ship to enter.

Turning around takes time. It’s not like they just hook a u-ee at the stoplight. It can take them a good 30-45 minute to make a complete turnaround.

If it too you 4 hours to get where you were it will take another 4 hours to get back to where you came from (not counting the time it takes to actually turn around) then time to dock, time to offload you and then they have to turn back around and head out again. They are now a full day behind schedule. (4 hours out+4 hours back to port+4 hours back to where they turned around = 12 hours to no where.). If I just wasted 12 hours of my $3000 vacation to let one person off the ship I’d be unimaginably pissed off. Now multiply that by a couple of thousand pax and... well safe to say the ship is only going to return 4 hours if it is only choice they have.

Fuel. They don’t necessarily have enough fuel for an extra 8 hours of travel. (4 to get back to port and 4 to get back to where they turned around.) and the dock may not have enough fuel on hand to refuel them. Plus, it’s not like they just stick a hose in and pull the handle up.

“But they could have just docked somewhere else”. No, they couldn’t. Again, water depths and all’s that. Things like port fees. Types of regulations on size of ships allowed in an area. Deep enough water. If you have to be tugged or pushed in (around here a ship can’t motor in on their own. They have to be tugged or pushed in.). Still a lot of wasted time and fuel.

Your best bet would have been an air evacuation. And just because you didn’t talk to someone about this option doesn’t mean that a behind the scenes discussion didn’t take place. You just weren’t part of that discussion probably because they didn’t want your input.

So while it sucks in the long run that motoring on to the next port caused you more damage, that’s just a chance you taken when you take a cruise and are at the mercy of the ship.

Just out of curiosity, how’d you break your hip? I mean, you fell, but slipped down the stairs? Tripped over someone’s ESA? I’m just nosey like that...

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I’ll just add, to be clear, I do not agree with ESAs. I think that when the ADA began to recognize ESA for certain things they inadvertently opened a can of very bad worms.

Combine the fact that the general public can’t follow rules with the fact that under ADA you are very limited on being able to question a “service dog” with the fact that it really isn’t something that a minimum wage employee should have to concern themselves with... and basically you have a recipe for disaster.

No minimum wage employee in a right to work state wants to try and explain to someone the difference between a Service Dog protected under the ADA and a Emotional Support Animal that’s allowed to live in your “pet free” apartment while the customer stands and yells and threatens to sue you and your whole company. All the while incorrectly interrupting the laws in a way to fit their needs and bring their pet onto the ship/into Walmart/sit in their lap on the plane...

If you think about it, ESA is the pure definition of a pet. It is an animal that you have that brings you some kind of joy, pleasure, calming effect... who’s pet doesn’t do that in some way? So why is one person’s need for a pet greater than another’s? Service Animals aren’t pets. They do a job for their owner. They don’t “bring comfort” (but that can be a side effect of their job).

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I just wish that having a dog or any medical reason for something special was better regulated and controlled by doctors. To me it should be very difficult to get a handicap special needs treatment unless you really need it. It's abused way too much and should strictly enforced with a doctors note. Clearly if you can push your dog in a stroller and dress the thing up like a child then you are abusing the system. Where do these dogs do their business while on the cruise?

But who’s to say that dressing the dog up and pushing it in a stroller means the dog isn’t preforming a service. You’d need to know what service the dog supposedly provides to know that.

My dog comforts me when I’m stressed or upset. She will lay across my lap or stand in front of me if I’m standing. She can preform either of those “services” even if she is dyed rainbow colors or wearing a tutu. She can even prefer that service from a stroller because if I felt I needed her comfort I could lift her from the stroller (however, she is far too big for a stroller.) (my dog is not an ESA. I do not agree with ESA as an excuse to bring your dog into a public place. If dogs/pets are allowed I do sometimes bring my dog, but mostly she stays home.)

Besides, if RC is going to allow pets on board (which it sounds like clearly they do) I’d much rather that “you” push your pet around in a stroller where they are contained, can’t lock my legs, can’t be stepped on, can’t growl at me or bite me... than carried around in your arms or sitting in your lap at dinner or shoved in my face in an elevator.

The real issue here has nothing to do with current laws. Current laws are pretty clear. It has to do with RC has decided that they will allow pets on board the ships and will allow them in the dining rooms. Whatever their excuse it that seems to be the case.

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Saw tons of these on our recent (last month) Celebrity cruise. Has anyone actually used them? Are they helpful or just one more thing you have to keep up with, like an umbrella?

 

 

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I like to have something to hold onto on uneven ground. I also like to poke things with a stick.

They are usually super light weight and can be folded or collapsed and stuck in a bag so rarely do I feel it’s in the way or that I’m having to keep up with it.

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Here is the list of prohibited items: https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/prohibited-items-onboard-policy

Ok. Thanks. That list was the first one I think I saw. Then the list in the “Guest Ticket Book” it reads as “these and other similar items...” which is kind of vague so I was looking for a little more antidotal evidence.

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I’ve tried to read the security rules but it wasn’t specific enough.

Are walking sticks, like collapsible hiking poles, allowed on the ship? (Not for use on the ship, but at excursions.)

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Apparently there is no need for schlepping.

At least out of Galveston “everyone” reports that all you need to do is tape a luggage tag to the top of the unopened case and it will magically appear in your cabin with the rest of your luggage.

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On Royal, only the Deluxe (alcohol) Package has a requirement.

So, just the soda, no. But if the kids don’t drink soda I don’t think I’d bother. There apparently are things to drink for free. And the soda package doesn’t include bottled water, basically just soda.

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You have to call to buy just one Deluxe package and the other over 21 people in the room have to have the Refreshment Package.

Be sure that they get the names right. I had already bought mine and my mom’s Refreshment package and called later to add huuby’s deluxe package and the RC person add it to my mom so that Mom had 2 drink packages and hubby still had 0 [emoji849]. I didn’t think to be stupidly specific bc he was the only one without a drink package and surely they can’t assign 2 packages to 1 person! (They can!). I realized it weeks later and had to call back and the only way to “fix it” was refund the Deluxe package and resell it to me. By that time the price had changed and they “swore” they couldn’t give me the other price. It worked out in the end but it would have been easier if I’d paid better attention the first time.

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I could have been one of those “Inflight Miracles” January 2017.

I had kidney surgery and had a bladder stent inserted and about 3 days later my dad landed in the ICU. I needed to move quickly around the hospital and if you’ve ever had a bladder stent you would know moving quickly hurts like the devil. When I could move slower or at a “normal” pace or could stop I was fine. But if I need to hurry it was much easier and more comfortable to grab a wheelchair and have someone push me.

Had we been flying and I needed to get to the plane in a timely manner I probably would have opted for a wheelchair ride. But upon landing, not having to hurry, I could have walked just fine at an almost normal pace. I wouldn’t have bothered with a wheelchair leaving, out of courtesy of someone who might need it more.

I looked and felt perfectly healthy! Even better than healthy after what had basically been equivalent to a 6 month long kidney stone (it wasn’t a stone but similar feeling.)

(But that only lasted a couple of weeks I had the stent removed.)

So, it’s really hard to judge.

As for the pet issue, it’s a pet peeve of mine. I agree we need different rules. BUT!

The laws can say whatever and if the cruise lines or airlines want to choose to ignore the laws and do what they want then that’s really up to them.

The laws are only there for those who need to be able to say “it’s the law”.

Some airlines or cruise lines may decide that we live in a time where they are ok with a more relaxed pet policy.

I do take my dog into pet friendly establishments, especially if I’m traveling long distances, I have eaten at restaurants with her. She also has trained in Search and Rescue and being in public places and different surroundings is part of her training (but we stick to pet friendly areas, we don’t lie or exaggerate her status.). She needs to ride elevators, experience different flooring, learn to ignore distractions, climb different types of stairs... not really dissimilar to service dog training. Similar really like someone mentioned therapy dog work. (But she doesn’t need to join me on a cruise)

When we enter any store she walk beside me on a 2 foot leash and is mostly “ignored” if people call out “DOGGY!” or want to pet her we decline as if she is working.

At restaurants we sit outside and she remains in a down under the edge of the table. We have gotten up to leave and had tables around us gasp and say “OMG! I didn’t even know she was there!” Which is exactly the reaction I want.

So, I kind of understand the desire to take your dog “everywhere”. But I also enjoy leaving her at home. I don’t always enjoy traveling with her, so much extra work!

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