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Isnt it an airboat in a park, with captured alligators, rather than airboat in the Everglades, with real alligators?

>>>?????? No no...

the Everglades is huge - taking up much of the central/interior of Florida (look at a map)

Airboat attractions /parks are found up and down the glades - in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, on the west coast too - and outside Orlando etc...anywhere someone sets up a bunch of airboats, and various other stuff they add - restaurant, gift shop, a little "zoo" , gator "wrestling" show, or whatever else they come up with . Some are better than others , many offer deals..some are more "eco' environmental (one has various rescued animals there for instance) some are "cornier" with the wrestling

I know of one that has Native American village etc too

However...the boats all go out into the Everglades - where you see real alligators. There are over a million here - they were here first. Most of the parks have small alligators and/or large or resident gators too. I know one has a gator over 1000 lb and over 50 years old, very happy in his fenced in pool with his "woman" LOL - the fence blew down during Hurricane Wilma and he was "free" but he sat there and kept coming back looking for his food....he is very happy for a gator I guess haha

There is a park near Cocoa Beach that is more of a zoo/alligator zoo and maybe you are thinking of that? HTH

Definitely do it :)

If you have a later flight , the cruiseline will have a tour with airport drop off...luggage stays on board - and you visit the glades and ride airboat, see gators etc

The Everglades - the "River of Grass" is unique to Florida and really neat...amazing to see how you skim along and the grass "bends" and so quickly you are far from civilization. Most of the airboat captains are real characters too with some interesting facts and tales

If you are staying here pre or post cruise - rent a car and look for coupons, groupons, living social ...lots of deals and may be cheaper. BUT if you are using it for a post cruise - get to airport - the cruise excursion is perfect

Quote feature not working right now ...

but ...to Charles

not so simple to hire lifeguards....as stated so many different pools, water venues...."kids only"?? well good luck keeping them out as people don't follow rules....plus the real danger is that 1) parents would have false sense security and let the lifeguards babysit and 2) God forbid another drowning - then huge lawsuits as with lifeguards they are liable...this could truly raise fares, and change the way cruise is run - like closed pools, short hours, clear the decks

To Katya - it seems to me you are simply afraid to be on a cruise with a tragedy, the odds are pretty much in your favor since millions cruise

far more likely to see a medivac for an older person - sad but yes not so devastating as child tragedy

however....the cost is not viable IMHO - and not do -able -Disney is already more expensive..and it appears they only have limited lifeguard coverage anyhow

Chances are kids can get into other trouble - predators, slip and fall, fall down stairs, over a railing , fall into the atrium etc, goofing around and get hurt......kid security would help to prevent that. A system of finding the parent of any kid alone under? say 13 or? A good curfew for all under 18, and warnings to the parents.

The cost of kid security would be minimal and would NOT leave cruise lines open to liabilty = they are there to enforce rules not to keep kids from drowning. However in the long run they could prevent drowning (and other accidents) simply by enforcing the "no unattended child" rule.

Don't be afraid LOL>>> I find that some newbies to MSC overthink things

MSC is really very much like any other mainstream cruiseline and better IMHO in many ways

On Divina you are not in Europe, you are in the sunny Caribbean...MSC has gotten more casual, not like Carnival or NCL, but just as Celebrity, Royal loosened up so have they. NO shorts in main dining room, no swimsuit at the buffet and you will be fine

Guys as long as you wear a collared shirt, long pants you will be ok for "formal" nights, may want to add a sport coat but your choice.

Yes many guys will wear suits...and you will see some tuxes. But you won't be turned away really unless you are in shorts and/or tee shirt

I have noticed some couples put together a "coordinated" outfit that looks more dressy than it really is - example : a royal blue dress or royal blue sparkly top with black pants for her and a royal blue shirt /pattern tie for him

Some people are "afraid of smoke" as we all know (or think?) that Europeans smoke more - but ...on Divina...it is the most smoke free ship I ever had the pleasure to sail. Cigar bar and one side of the pool deck, not allowed inside elsewhere or even at the covered pool...wonderful :)

My friend brought her grandaughter (and daughter) on 3 night Divina and they were surprised the little one love loved the Kids program and counselors...could not keep her away

For families Divina has the "kid corner" in the very back of buffet - stuff kids like, chicken fingers, mac and cheese etc....you will see kids there eating with the counselors sometimes

One of the best improvements for me has been the new buffet hours - like 20 hours a day I think?

Now it is open and so much improved and expanded. Best buffet I have ever seen. Check in the back (opposite kids corner) for the Ethnic corner

Also the "med" area - with roasted red peppers , black olives..check out the cheeses - sometimes brie, gouda etc..with dried apricots and walnuts..amazing

So what would you cc members be willing to pay for a lifeguard or other measure to keep the kids safe at the pools? I am looking for $ or cents per day or per week. Let the cruiselines worry about the liability issues or they can call Disney cruiseline and get the facts and cost on that.

 

Per cruiser what is the extra cost that you are willing to spend to decrease the number and hopefully eliminate drownings and near drownings of small children on cruiseships? For sure $20 per week would not phase me in the least and I would go significantly higher than that. Where would you draw the line $0, $3.50, $7, $10, $20, $25, $50???? Per week.

I am not willing to pay Disney prices....and I hope that no other cruiselines start this lifeguard lunacy. A tiny - $2 or so per cruiser- could pay for a few kid security staff like Princess has. Notice that families don't seem to flock to Princess - their kids have a curfew at night...they are NOT permitted in adult areas, they are stopped from riding the elevators pushing all buttons, stopped from acting stupid around the pool, running, no pizza throwing no nonsense. They have a security staff that wears different color shirts...I believe they are (cheaper/less combat trained) than the security normally employed on ships which tend to be Ghurkas from India and Israeli Security (that is what MSC has)...

the staff on Princess only deals with the kids....and their parents. My friend loves Princess but her daughters and grandkids not so much. Some people like the laizzez faire attitude found on Carnival and to a lesser degree NCL.

When Kid security brought their 13 year old back to the cabin at 1 am

and next time paged the mother -sternly "warned" her she was not happy.

The kid security is nice (I think) but they do not have to be too nice - they don't get tips. They speak English (Aussies? Brits?)

They are young men in their 20's and they patrol just for kids

I would hate to see another tragedy and then see a cruiseline hit with huge lawsuits due to lifeguard liability. I don't want to pay for that sorry

I also really don't see why I would have to have pool hours etc shortened to pay for life guards

Prevent the tragedy by making the parents accountable....maybe reduce the number of pools kids can be in ....put in splash parks etc for the small ones....have some "kid security" enforce it all.....ban a couple families fromt he pool and watch how others will finally see the light JMO

Wanna getaway :)

The more I read and see about this great new ship the more I like it

finally some "Love" for Florida - the best place to cruise from IMHO <grin>

All these ships with various themes now we finally have one with a South Beach Flair :)

So who has been on her?? Any links to reviews? Pictures??

I wanna getaway :p:p:p

So what would you cc members be willing to pay for a lifeguard or other measure to keep the kids safe at the pools? I am looking for $ or cents per day or per week. Let the cruiselines worry about the liability issues or they can call Disney cruiseline and get the facts and cost on that.

 

Per cruiser what is the extra cost that you are willing to spend to decrease the number and hopefully eliminate drownings and near drownings of small children on cruiseships? For sure $20 per week would not phase me in the least and I would go significantly higher than that. Where would you draw the line $0, $3.50, $7, $10, $20, $25, $50???? Per week.

I am not willing to pay Disney prices....and I hope that no other cruiselines start this lifeguard lunacy. A tiny - $2 or so per cruiser- could pay for a few kid security staff like Princess has. Notice that families don't seem to flock to Princess - their kids have a curfew at night...they are NOT permitted in adult areas, they are stopped from riding the elevators pushing all buttons, stopped from acting stupid around the pool, running, no pizza throwing no nonsense. They have a security staff that wears different color shirts...I believe they are (cheaper/less combat trained) than the security normally employed on ships which tend to be Ghurkas from India and Israeli Security (that is what MSC has)...

the staff on Princess only deals with the kids....and their parents. My friend loves Princess but her daughters and grandkids not so much. Some people like the laizzez faire attitude found on Carnival and to a lesser degree NCL.

When Kid security brought their 13 year old back to the cabin at 1 am

and next time paged the mother -sternly "warned" her she was not happy.

The kid security is nice (I think) but they do not have to be too nice - they don't get tips. They speak English (Aussies? Brits?)

They are young men in their 20's and they patrol just for kids

I would hate to see another tragedy and then see a cruiseline hit with huge lawsuits due to lifeguard liability. I don't want to pay for that sorry

I also really don't see why I would have to have pool hours etc shortened to pay for life guards

Prevent the tragedy by making the parents accountable....maybe reduce the number of pools kids can be in ....put in splash parks etc for the small ones....have some "kid security" enforce it all.....ban a couple families fromt he pool and watch how others will finally see the light JMO

A well trained professional life guard will greatly prevent the possibility that this will occur. No prevention is full proof but the odds increase greatly that these few tragedies could be almost eleminated.

 

Now a weak english speaking regular cruise crewmember type put in a fancy shirt and bathingsuit to stand around and "watch" the pool will be far less useful.

 

Again kudos to disney and boo sucks to you all other lines that don't employ a relatively simple proactive concept. The overall cost spread between thousands of customers would likely be very minimal to your cost to cruise. You don't need 50 lifeguards.

Then simple - go on Disney.

If you bothered to read - no one ever said the cost of the lifeguards would be the problem - it would be the legal liability.

If someone drowns with a lifeguard - then it opens it up to a whole other world of lawsuits. Swim at your own risk - just like at our association pool - the insurance and risk would be outrageous otherwise

Sucks that people can't watch their own kids IMHO -

I do think Kids security would be a good answer - and a safeguard.

Kids can also get hurt doing other stupid things - sliding down a bannister, climbing on a railing, running on a slippery pool deck - kid "security" staff can stop them right then and there....English speaking and NOT tipped - so therefore not so afraid to lose a tip and/or humble/nice

I think that parents should be given a special rule book/waiver when they get the wristbands. I think it should be mentioned in the muster and then enforced. When a few errant families are put off the ships then others will take notice. Look at that review where a single mom let her 6 year old roam the ship alone? That is crazy

Accidents happen in places other than pools

Really looks like an amazing ship....welcome her to Miami :)

Lots of "local" buzz about this beauty - really interested

Can't wait to see some picture reviews

Think of the children!!!

LOL>> why?? I am not into pole dancing but I also am not into SpongeBob

plenty of stuff for kids on all these ships - some adult stuff is ok too

Remember I suggested a Big Bouncer -type Security Guard along with lifeguards. The "security" staff would do the talking with the parents so that the lifeguard could do her or his job and keep the pool safe.

Sorry I am not willing to pay a lot more for lifeguards/legal liability and most are not. It is not like there is an epidemic of drownings - and the few so far the parents/ guardian were NOT with the kids. The poor little boy on Carnival 6 years old was in the main pool and his 10 year old brother was watching him...unbelievable

Really as long as we are willing to allow this it will happen - and lifeguards won't stop it. The same sort of irresponsible parent could allow a kid to drown in the bathtub of a Haven suite.

When the parents who let kids roam or swim on their own are confronted and given restrictions and consequences then others will make better choices.

Get a good travel agent who specializes in groups

they should be able to put most promos right into the group - state/senior/military discounts etc

depends on the cruise how many points you get for the group - for a free cocktail party or wine or whatever

I would never deal with the "groups" department - let the travel agent handle it.....again one who does a lot of groups - shop around

with that many cabins you should have two "tour conductors" free fares

if you are doing all the work you should get one of them

you could (as suggested) spread the other one around for perks

IMHO the standard party line on here of "my PVP" and/or "just book online" does NOT apply to groups. Many of the people giving you advice have never dealt with leading a group - so they really don't know and they are anti travel agent for some reason - and NO I am not a travel agent

I do have experience in leading a group. Also the idea that you will have less responsibility and less "work" if you don't do a true group is once again unfounded - my experience is that you will have just as much work one way or another :) Be prepared yourself and it will be ok, be prepared with an faq of how to do your online fun pass, go over all the details with them

Many people not on CC for instance do NOT realize they can bring on soda or water and a bottle of wine each - let your group know.

Lanyards and beads or ? will distinguish them and let them find each other and you. Have your cell phone on - put everyone in group number in your cell phone with a "prefix"...like for Conquest I put in "ConquestMary"...

"ConquestBob" so you can see who is calling/texting etc. Texting works well on the ship

If you live near each other (*or some do) precruise get together is great way to give all the info. You can earn your "free" cruise this way - and make it more enjoyable for all. IMHO a good group travel agent is the first step....Enjoy :)

If you look at a map you will see why

one is east.. San Juan

one is west - Jamaica

in the middle of the Caribbean is the huge land mass of Cuba <grin> really many cruises sail around Cuba to the east or the west

realistically the time/fuel to do both is not gonna happen, not until the US allows us to port at Cuba then we might see more cruises like that

a repo cruise might...might...combine the two

Also people here wonder "why" the Gulf coast cruises only go to the western ports (or sometimes Bahama key west)...again look at a map

in 7 nights that is as far as they can go

Cruises from Miami and Ft Lauderdale have much more freedom to travel both directions and can get to a lot more places

an 8 night from Miami stops at one more port than an 8 night from Port Canaveral - just a matter of distance and time and fuel

It is what it is...no other cruise line will combine those two ports either

In fact, some cruiselines (Royal) seem to go less places than most - ie, a 4 night cruise on Royal is ONLY Cozumel where Carnival squeezes in a short stop at Key West

Interesting wording. You could also word this as "So it's better to let kids drown on cruiseships because their parents choose not to watch them".

 

Lets stop the emotional lying. What is needed is for cruise lines to require parents to read and sign a form clearly stating their responsibilities for watching their children. It should state that there is no lifeguard present, that alcohol is not for minors and that aggressive/disruptive behavior will cause punishments of some kind to both minors and parents. Make it clear (keep the lawyers away) and concise so that all parents on the ship must know and accept their responsibilities for their children.

 

I am sure all this is in the legal forms that is part of the ticketing process. But it needs to be restated clearly.

Exactly - they put wristbands on all the kids...the parents should be made to sign a detailed form...and also be given list of consequences

Then - a few non tipped staff one at each pool - to enforce this

Kid security like Princess has - also can go after kids who are running wild at night or wandering the ship alone

One offense - Parent/family put on probation - maybe stopped from using pools etc....2nd offense - put off the ship

let that happen a few times and the parents will get the picture - leave the kids at home, put them in kid club, or put their drink down and watch them themselves JMO

Unless a cruise line wants to be like Disney, super expensive and kid oriented, I think they should just enforce their own rules. Much of the problem is that the staff is so afraid of riling up a paying/tipping customer.

Also it is not up to other cruisers to watch other people's kids. I am sure all the poor people at that pool feel horrible but really not their fault

what sort of parent/guardian really would let a 4/6 year old in a pool themselves without being right there with them? Let's get real here

Some children are not as fortunate as others. Some need help from society.

 

For instance it is known that second hand smoke is dangerous. To protect minors here in Ontario there is a LAW that came into effect in 2009 that states that smoking in a car with a child under the age of 16 is prohibited.

 

Most children under 16 are in a car with a parent or guardian. Sometimes children need society to help protect them. I think that having lifeguards on cruiseships would protect our most vulnerable, the children. How can that not be worth the money or inconvienience or potential lawsuits?

Some people need to spend the extra money and go on Disney IMHO

I truly think it would put kids at greater risk if they had lifeguards - these same reckless irresponsible parents would use it as a baby sitter

I think a huge part of the problem is that the "tipped" workers are too afraid to rile up cruisers - and honestly a lot of them are not all that comfortable telling off a passenger in English or enforcing rules

A few good examples - family banned from pool....family confined to cabin for rest of cruise...family put off the ship....would work. Millions of people on cruises - millions of kids - a few sad incidents.

IMHO a 4 year old and 6 year old should not be alone at the buffet let alone a pool. If you have a lifeguard you will see more little ones at the pool by themselves and what if the lifeguard doesn't get to them in time or realize they are alone??

Why not be proactive? Next cruise - kids in the adult hot tub , go to security and insist they are removed - remind them of the drownings. Kids with no parents running around? Again go to security

I saw the package on the NCL site....

do they still have a 3 restaurant package? I thought they did ??

I do like NCL but really not so fond of the main dining room...with a group it was hard cause people left to the upsell restaurants (do did I haha, loved Le Bistro)...not sure I would want all 7 nights

are they offering any onboard specials now? thanks

That is shocking that they would put the camera down there

also bad that guest services laughed

I would keep up your complaints to NCL, customer relations etc...this is just not acceptable

I personally would not want a balcony on NCL or Carnival - smoker heaven

more and more cruiselines do NOT allow any smoking in cabins or balconies - MSC, an Italian line and my new fave LOL, is pretty much smoke free - love it

Royal Caribbean stopped all balcony smoking this Jan - pretty much smoke free

that means IMHO that some chainsmokers will move from Royal to NCL and Carnival - no thanks. Inside or outside but no balcony for me

till then - I would def keep up the complaints to NCL

Wow...some here are bending the facts - no evidence that the "netting was over the pool"...the boys did not sneak in, others were in the pool....this was not a kid's club activity from all we have heard...they were in the pool at ages 4 and 6....

someone was their guardian...the only one we have heard about is the grandmother (went with the 6 year old to hospital on helicopter)

IF....and I say IF..she did go away from pool for a cigarette...yeah she should be charged. Just as parents here who forget their kids in a car and kid dies of heatstroke are sometimes charged (and IMHO should always be charged).

I too live in Florida and yes drowning is the number one cause of death for young children here despite laws, public service announcements

Karysa - maybe you wish to spend more on cruises and have the pool/spa hours cut and the deck cleared for lifeguards but most of us do not...we are a sue happy country and this would be lawsuits waiting to happen. It could even endanger kids whose parents use it as babysitter

the logical answer is to increase the security (I have already suggested a special kids security team....just one at each pool and some roaming the ship at night on lookout for kids acting up).....

this would not increase ship fares or liability .. your endless lifeguard lament is going to mean more parents will use them as the babysitter...plus with pools on NCL and Carnival etc they won't even be able to see who is where , so crowded =unless they clear the whole deck for them

Bottom line is that the parents/guardians are responsible for these kids and somehow these 2 were let down

there is no way that NCL is responsible if someone thinks that a 4 and 6 year old should be in a pool with depth up to 6 feet on their own

If the same guardians gave the kids hydrochloric acid to play with or a loaded gun or a bag of drugs to play with they would be liable.

I really don't care what Disney does or doesn't do - I would not want to spend that money to be on a kid themed ship , no thanks. For those who want lifeguards - Disney is an option

Statistically with the amount of people cruising, these tragedies are a very small number - not acceptable - but in the other cases it really came down to bad judgement - the boy on Disney "lost" from family, the 6 year old on Carnival in the pool being "watched" by his 10 year old brother! Honestly the NCL tragedy also seems to have the same bad judgement.

I think the best thing is to have NON tippped . salaried employees who are there to oversee kids /pool rules.....clear rules given to each parent/guardian along with the kids wristband....haul them out of the hot tubs if adult only.....make sure every kid is really with an adult at the pools...first time a warning - 2nd time family banned from pool for rest of cruise, if they go back in put them off the boat

Once people see they mean business they might think twice before letting little kids in pool on their own

Did you happen to see how much a spa pass was for two? Are there any other amenities in the spa that make buying a pass worth it?

MSC does not have a spa pass in the Caribbean. The steam and sauna (separate sexes) are no charge....the spa does not have a hot tub like Poesia as Cam said but Divina does have hot tubs in the covered pool you can enjoy

Massages, scrubs, facials etc are all extra of course - like most cruise lines they have lots of "specials" and deals

I haven't sailed on Princess for quite awhile now but their food used to be very good, pretty "Continental fancy"...however, I do have friends who have been on her and say they have cutbacks too on Princess, food not as good as it used to be etc

I have been on NCL 3x and thought their buffet was very good but Carnival 2.0 (Guy Burgers and the Burritos) would be the winner

NCL main dining room food was not that great, especially on a longer cruise so ended up spending more to eat in the speciality restaurant. Food was excellent there ...but extra $$

I think Carnival food is very good, on my last (Dec 13) Conquest cruise the food was mostly good sometimes "excellent". I don't know about the new menus however - I like the fruit soups and I am not sure I will enjoy the family style.

Now...entertainment?? NCL had great shows and lots of live entertainment.....I don't know about Princess but IMHO nothing could be worse than the 2.0 Carnival lol...don't get me started...I know of Condos in south florida that have better shows than the Playlist "reductions" haha

Right or wrong I would want off of the ship. I couldn't even think about having fun. I would not expect that everyone would feel like me. I would detest being there. It would haunt me every second.

Wow...I can understand being depressed and thinking about this tragedy, but IMHO there is such a thing as being too sensitive

once I was held up in traffic on 95 on my merrry way to the Port of Miami - a huge and very fatal wreck - body bags , rescue vehicles leaving with body bags and no siren - not needed...

I still went on the cruise,

Every time I leave my complex I see the spot where a neighbor was killed in a car accident - sad but I still drive and drive by it.

I am sure you pass by hospitals - children die in hospitals...I am sure you pass by those sad roadside "crosses" don't you?? Does that bother you??

Life goes on - of course not the same if you actually knew them, and unthinkable for the poor family - but for the rest of us?

I do feel especially bad for the good Samaritans who tried CPR...hopefully they can console themselves with knowing that one boy was apparently saved by their heroic efforts

Thinking of you and sending good thoughts for a full and speedy recovery.

Thank you for the way you have put things in perspective. Hoping you soon will be back here feeling great and planning your next cruise!

I just may!

But putting down Carnival is a little strange since MCS is the current budget line out of Miami !

In May, a balcony on the MSC Divina costs less then any other lines Ocean View, including Carnival!:confused:

So if they're wearing baseball caps on Carnival in the MDR, we might see bathing suits on MSC!:D

LOL.....I actually like Carnival but entertainment is important to me. I love the entertainment on MSC. I have been on a fair amount of cruises and I find I remember the shows on MSC, the performers, etc.MSC shows are so different and so amazing, and really not something you see everyday. I can't wait till May haha

Glad you had such a great time and thanks for your extensive review....I was on Divina inaugural and I can't wait to return in May <grin>

How were the "theme nights?" Did people dress up, did you? Did MSC send any info on this before the cruise??

Baked Alaska parade is a treat - I love the way MSC combines such an ultra modern ship with real cruise/old school treats like the Baked Alaska parade, theme nights, dining rooms open for all meals if you choose

I love the buffet too - the med area with the grilled peppers, black olives, the wonderful cheeses...Oh yum!

We are sailing on the same cruise as you are Esty. Looking forward to meeting you! Jerome and I will be bringing our Tuxedo for the first Gala night as we love to dress up. For the second Gala night we will be wearing dark suits. We loved the White Hot Parties on NCL, so we are looking forward to wearing white on the night The Divina has it. Plus, there are two more fun bonuses. The Italian Night....and boy, a do I have Red, Green and White outfit to wear. Then the 60's-80's night. Disco Diva all the way!

 

We look forward to having so much fun on all our cruise adventures, even tho they are much talked about on the boards! :D

 

Looking forward to having a fun time with you!

Thanks ! Can't wait to see your "Italiano" outfit!

I admit that one has me a bit puzzled LOL...what to wear? what to bring?

I can do the white hot (NCL vet) and the "70's" hippie is easy for me as a Baby Boomer LOL