Sthrngary

@kasimir Well written and thought out. The point is being missed but that is what happens ever time this subject comes up. Usually, at this point, I just let it peter out. However, I am compelled to comment. Everything I research, write, post or comment on is designed to enhance my cruising experience. In turn, I share it so other can consider enhancing their experience. Part of that is to understand the aspects of an itinerary, ship, cabin level or brand. It is clear and has been well documented that NCL is at fault for not consistently managing this or any situation that is an area of dissatisfaction to their guests. "If you make a rule, enforce the rule or have NO rules." CHECK!! Now go along with me on this one. I go on line to let's say, CruiseCritic.com. I go to the NCL blog on the Haven. The topic of unruly children that are not supervised by their parents controlling the Haven Pool, Hot tub and Courtyard is the topic with a lively debate going on. Enough folks talk about it and are upset with it, it becomes a real thing. Now I have to make a decision, how to I control this situation to make my vacation all it can be. NCL is clearly at fault by allowing it to happen and that is not going to change until it changes. I on the other hand will be cruising in 30 days on that ship. I knew the issue before I booked it so there is an possibility it might happen. Again, the question I have to ask myself is, "How can I manage the situation to still create and enhanced situation for my vacation?" That is the purpose of my posts. Know the possibilities and manage your expectations. If you never even knew it was a possibility, do more research next time. I had more then one situation and I quite frankly did not like it. So to fix my issue and enhance my vacation here are some of the things I did. When To Book: I choose dates where most smaller children and teens are in school. Example, I used to book Thanksgiving week every year. Now I book the week after Thanksgiving. Problem solved and less money. Brand To Book: If I really want to solve this issue because it is that important to me, I go on Virgin, Luxury or Ultra-Luxury brands which surprisingly cost about the same as the Haven. In most cases they provide more as part of their initial fare. Deal Directly with The Manager: If I did all I could do to control the possibility and it comes up anyway, I go directly to the Manager of the department. My approach is calm, professional, specific and direct. I explain NCL's policies, how they are being broken and how it makes me and others around me feel. So many times, complaints on this and other topics never are communicated directly with the leadership and instead they are shouted on Social Media which rarely handles the problem or vacation one is on. Manage Expectations: Since I know this and other issue have a likely hood of happening, I have a discussion with my family or friends joining me. If this happens, we do "THIS". Usually that is going to the Haven Sundeck where the only ships I will cruise have two hot tubs up there and an age limit of 16 or above. I have NEVER had an issue in the Haven Sundeck, ever. This strategy of Manage Expectations is a theme for my vacations. Outside of children, another topic I manage expectations on is cruise ports. In 44 days, I will my wife and best friends will be cruising on a Luxury Brand to 7 ports in the Mediterranean. This brand is known to cancel ports for the smallest reason. I know this and fully expect it. I have educated my guest on that fact. If if happens, we will all be a bit disappointed but not shocked. If it does not happen our expectations will be exceeded. This attitude of what I can and can not control allows me to stay positive most of the time. If I have learned anything about cruising it is, nothing ever truly goes exactly as planned. So know the potential trigger points, do you best to plan around them, have a back up plan, be positive and flexibly. If you don't, you very expensive vacation will be very disappointing. The only thing I can control is my attitude and preparation. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Hello all: Well that has been fun. Every 4 months the topic is about kids in the Haven again. We all share stories of horrible children unsupervised and then the topic shift back to how to gain an enhanced cruising experience in the Haven. In my original post, 5 years ago, I wrote a book on how to leverage the Haven. Pages and Pages. Two lines in ALL that text has to do with children in the Haven courtyard, pool and hot tub. That was the first time this topic was hashed and rehashed about kids in the Haven. Parents criticized my two sentence comment like it was the foundation of the op-ed. Another parent sent me a picture of her daughter studying for a test while sitting at a table in the Haven Courtyard. The reality of the situation is this issue is NOT allows an issue. The real issue is NOT the kids it is the parents. NCL is designed with their fares to provide 3 & 4 passenger in the suite free so kids in Haven Suites are a thing. NCL crew member have to have very high review scores to be in the Haven, they are paid more and if they ask a child's parents to handle a situations; that parent gives that crew member a bad review which takes them out of the Haven and they lose money. I have been a cheer leader for the Haven for a very long time. However if the possibility of kids in the courtyard, Haven Pool and Hot tub that are not supervised is a problem, we need to simply choose another brand. NCL like other big companies have created a system when posted rules, if enforced cause issue for their employees. There are many brands/ships that are adult only, or very limited children because there is no kids program. The success of a cruise is to know the "Rules to the Game" and make decisions based on those rules. My hope is NCL will read all the comments and take action. However I have little hope of that. So please make your future booking decisions accordingly. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@bluestar1 You and your family will be treated like “Rock Stars”. The children issue is 5-10 year olds, who’s parents think the Haven crew are their baby sitters. The issue is the parents not the children.

@kasimir I might sound like a broken record here but my heart is in the right place. The Haven Sundeck is 16 years old or above. When I choose NCL ships with the Haven in mind, I choose the ships that have a retractable roof over the Haven pool/courtyard, a Haven Sundeck with Hot tubs, and a Haven Horizon's Observation Lounge. My favorites are Bliss, Encore and especially the Joy. The YouTube personalities were on the Viva which is a completely different layout and without the Horizon's Lounge, they lost the spectacular specialty coffee machine which had the greatest coffee. Choices and planning is everything with NCL. Especially when choosing the Haven. I hope this post helps. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@JoieNsk I am the author of this thread. You will have a fantastic time. I will be in the Mediterranean first week of November on another brand and ship. However, here is some information that might help you or at least manage your expectations. I was on the Epic Sister ship the Joy. We had an H2 Haven Deluxe Owners Suite with Large balcony. The Balcony was half the front of the ship so I know front facing balconies. My upcoming port intensive 10-day Mediterranean Cruise will again be a Front Facing Balcony. Front facing balconies are usually big, and have the same view as the captain does. The challenge is when the ship is moving, it is very windy and sometimes unusable. The water condition don't effect the balcony very much. That is why I only get one with a "Port Intensive" itinerary. You did the same thing so you should be good to go. Just remember what happens when you are moving. That will allow managing your expectations. The shower has a privacy screen which if you were in port, and the port was outside your shower window, you could close it. I can attest the view is nice. I think you asked about a lap pool in a later posting. To my knowledge, the Epic does not have a lap pool. As it relates to the Haven Pool and Hot tubs regarding children taking them over. Yes this can happen however at this time of year, and in Europe, not likely. You should be fine. Most NCL ships hold 4000 guest with 200 or so in the Haven. Once you get through the security which is "Same size fits all", look for the signs that say Haven Guest. They can be hard to find but that is where you want to go. It takes you to the Haven Check in. Less congested, quicker and you are put in the Haven Port Lounge until boarding. Haven guest are the first to board, you can go directly to your suite even if it is not completely cleaned yet to drop off your carry on luggage. You can save some time onboard by utilizing the Haven Conciergerie. The secret to that is when you initially enter the Haven Area which is where you are escorted once you get onboard, get in the line for the Haven Conciergerie. It goes quick but is never ending. Have someone get you a drink at the Haven Bar as you wait in line. If what you want or need is not yet apparent. You can use your butler or the conciergerie both have different responsibilities. The secret to the Haven is it is not perfect. Things happen. Just share it if it does and always stay professional. Most things are resolved in minutes. I hope this helps you. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@babysteps Great story. Love the effort. Been there and done that. Fun stuff. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@kasimir Your last point says it all. You don't like the kids in the hot tub and controlling the Haven Pool. I don't either. So you adjust your places to avoid that. Whether it is getting a drink at a bar, kids in the Hot tub, not providing drinks in the Haven Room service, or a Menu that does not change in the Haven Restaurant. All things are manageable. "But should we have to do so???" The Haven is GREAT for Family vacations with kids. They stay free in the suite and makes choosing the Haven easier. If a 60 something couple like my wife and myself go, we choose dates, times and itineraries very carefully to avoid some of those issues. Would I go on another Haven Cruise, YEP, YEP, YEP. I would just really study it and pick and choose to avoid disappointment. I could and have chosen other brands but like I said, give and take. Nothing is ever perfect on a cruise. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@kasimir I just spent my early morning watching this video. "Cruise with Ben and David" are a series I really enjoy. They do a great job. The entire reason for this hugely long and detailed stream is to find every way possible to enhance your Haven Experience. Many have compared the Haven to the Retreat and Yacht Club. Each are different in their own way. Somethings better on some but not others. Every single complaint that Ben and David had are VALID. Every one. From the Menu, to drinks in the room, to coffee in the Haven Lounge. When the Viva and Prima first came out, it was all the hot ticket. Then some issues starting happening. The water slides in the balcony of the some suites, they are simply a bad design. Some categories of suites show hot tubs on the balcony but in reality don't have them. The list goes on. On another of my streams I ask for "Great Deals" in the Haven. This ship in Europe is one of those great deals. Maybe those kinds of complaints honestly given by Ben and David is the reason the Haven on these ships are not selling out. Yet I can't help thinking, if they did a little research prior, "I know it was a surprise", maybe their experience would have been better. Now allow me to be straight with every single person on this thread. I took the last five years to find every single way to make the Haven an enhanced luxury experience. Things few used to talk about. For me personally, it turned out well. Yet the amount of work, study and due diligence was enormous. Not something everyone would do even famous YouTube cruise personalities. It was to much effort for obtaining a luxury experience unless the premium was not over the top. I considered the Viva for my "Once in a Lifetime Mediterranean Cruise". I knew all of what "Ben and David" just found out. I compared the pricing at the time a year ago to Luxury and Ultra-Luxury cruise brands. In many cases the Viva was more money and provided less amenities. It just was not a good value so I choose another brands. The sales prices now available are much more competitive, but not at time of booking. This video review should be watched with other for ships like the Encore, Bliss, Joy Ect. I prefer those ships to the newer Prima and Viva. Personal choose. Yet still, at these prices we all have to look at all brands in the Luxury and Ultra-Luxury categories and compare. Be open minded and know what the rules are to the game before you get to excited with your booking choice. Another's words, "Have realistic expectations and a Plan to get there". Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@YourWorldWithBill sorry, “5”. Decisions are usually made based on previous experiences. The first I I bought Cruise Travel Insurance which was health, cancelation, delay, baggage, etc. it covered $5,000 due to a cancelation 8 days prior to a cruise. The second time my son got sick and it cost close to $800. Now it has become a habit. I got lucky on these situation. Just my experience, not every one. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

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@Hearthosesteeldrumsplayin The economy is not the issue really for me. It is me being cheap. I want nice things, nice cruises and nice vacations but don't want to pay the full freight. I have had a ball learning all the sales, marketing events and to coin a phase, "Secrets to Oceania". During this very lone 18 month journey, I also learned a lot about airlines and booking for my friends. I made a post on this and well got schooled. Seems, some members take airline situations very seriously. So I will briefly let you know how the airlines gave me a break. I booked my guests air flights on Delta Fully Refundable Coach. Because I am nuts, I checked their flights every morning. I wanted to see the cost of "Upgrades" for each segment and how it adjustments up and down. Months after I still have no clue how it all works but I did score some benefits. First a short leg one hour and 15 minute flight showed upgrade to first class for $39.00 per person. DONE for my friends. Second, same flight on the return was $49.00 per person. DONE again. Finally, the three hour flight from Atlanta to JFK was $149.00 per person upgrade and I used some extra Delta Sky miles to get those. My friend will not consider the upgrades for the long hauls so I did all I could do for them. All of this, from which brand, booking, insurance, Air, Post/Pre Hotel and transfers have been so much fun to learn about. My lively bride is using a highlighter, ruler, and pen to cross out half my journey document which is currently 50 pages. When she is done with it, it will be 5 pages. Every time she reads a page she "Rolls her eyes". What she does not know is, all I wanted was someone, anyone to say, "I don't want to do this, I want to do that." My wish has come true. The federal government is going to fine me for using so much paper in my original draft that we lost a forest. I have to learn to say more with less words. See, I am very self reflective. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Well my day was just made, really. I finally got a smiley face from @LHT28. See, I grow on people. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@rxlowry LMAO. It is easy to stay focused, on target and use the skills I learned in business if the situation is all about me or the friends joining me. No one can take up your case with a brand better then the actual guest. I also rarely if ever give up which wears folks out. I "Nice" them to death. Hard to say no to a really nice person, phone call or correspondence. Become a travel agent, NOT-A-GOING-TO-HAPPEN. The way I approach things, I will only have two client a year and might not have enough time for both of them. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@rxlowry My initial purchase was through the Travel Agent and it was Allianz Travel Protection Plan. In the past, I have used this same company and done it on my own. I had to phone number so I called. They never flinched and fixed followed by took my money. I have had three claims and they were very good. This time, I had my agent do this for me initially. I never, ever use the cruise companies insurance, just me. I hope that clarifies what happened.

@rxlowry In every story there is one side, the other side and in the middle the truth. I try to stay in the middle even if it was an issue I had done to me. My agent called me to ask how I got the paid upgrade when she could not do so. I shared the story and that lead to her saying, "Let me update your total cruise insurance amount to cover the upgrade amount". Seemed like a good idea so I said yes. After five or so minutes where my agent was getting frustrated, I said, "Just skip it. What the insurance company won't pay, I will apply to AMX Platinum." Then I woke up in the middle of the night saying to myself, "Fix this in the morning". So yes, I called the insurance company and increased the amount. Gave the my credit card for the added premium and set to go. I know I am over answering your question but I do have a point. 44 years booking cruises has taught me a few things. 1) I love great cruise travel agents and the one I have now is the best. 2) When a travel agent can't fix and issue with the cruise brand or cruise related topic, I can. 3) I have much more time then my travel agent because I am retired and the issue for me is personal. So when she can't get the job done, I do it and have no issue with that. I hope all that makes sense. As so many say online, and in my personal life, "Gary you are one off the wall dude." Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Here is our itenerary!

@lisa6191 Let us approach this differently. You list your ports for me and if I have information about them, I will respond back. My approach was: 1) Ground Transportation from Airport to Hotel in Athens; 2) Hotel in Athens; 3) Each other port was time in and out, ground transportation from port to city central, Main Attractions and some food options. Again, give my your ports and I will give you what I have for those ports. My document is excess of 50 page which is to much to cut and past. On the video, it is private because I included reseration numbers and other personal information. Sorry. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@zipher36 Plus 1. I originally had my pre-cruise hotel with Oceania in Athens. I check out the hotel and its reviews. I realized they are on the Marriott Guest Point Program. I look at how much it would cost me $, it was about 1/2 and I had two rooms so my guest joining us benefit as well. I am Elite Status with Marriott, the rate had Nothing to do with my status. For that I get perks like upgrades, internet and breakfast. It is my personal opinions that cruise lines do cruises best. Airlines do air best. Hotels do hotels best. Deal directly with each of them (aside using a GREAT travel agent for the cruise.). Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@scottie920 Consider the Free at Sea PLUS program or the Premium PLUS Beverage Package. Read the fine print because it matters. Consider your options and your decision will be made for you. I always buy the PLUS beverage package. Just me, not everyone. I remember my family of four in the French Restaurant and we could have the Champagne by the glass on the program. I think my adult daughter and I finished a bottle and a half. After a while, the server simply brought the bottle over and put it in ice by our table. I think that is what happened, I can't remember much except the next morning. For another post. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@KBrote It was MY pleasure to provide even the smallest amount of joy and laughter to your visit with your spouse. For years, I thought I was the only one that felt the way I did when planning a detailed family vacation. I thought, I was the issue, problem and causing all the conflict in my family. Then I posted my real life experiences and BINGO, like with you and your spouse, I am NOT alone. It is nice not to be alone on the lonely Island of "Over Preparation" with only my laptop, excel spreadsheet and social media. Lets add some more crazy Preparation to our already long list. WHY, because it JUST HAPPENED. I upgraded my Stateroom with a "Guest Paid Upgrade". Long story what happened and not really the issue. The issue is, I had cruise travel insurance on the OLD amount. My travel agent was having a hard time updating the amount to be covered. So I said, "Never Mind". Just leave it. Last night, at 03:33 AM, I know this because for what every reason, I wake up at 03:33 AM every morning because I am OLD and YES have to use the rest room way to many times at night. People my age don't laugh at that, they live that. Young people laugh at that and I say, "Laugh now but you will be in my position soon enough". When I woke, all I could think about while taking care of "Business" was my Cruise Travel Insurance amount. I had to commit to myself I would fix it in the morning to "ALLOW" myself to go back to sleep. This morning I called the insurance company first thing and FIXED IT. After, a sense of calm and satisfaction came over my mind and body. My mind said, "Gary, you can let this go now. You have done your due diligence. HUMMMMMM, HUMMMMM (that was verbal meditation)." To be honest with everyone and myself. I am not sure if I like the actual cruise or the preparation for the cruise better. That is yet another discussion with my Phycologist (I know NO ONE is surprised "I" need help mentally). Yet another day in the life of a anal retentive cruise planner. What can I say. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Hlitner Very well written and thank you for taking the time. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

After years of learning as much about cruising as I can, I have come to a few conclusions. My opinion is going to seem cold and non-caring. It is not my intent. I feel for this family and the issues they had. No one wants these kinds of things to happen to them on a Dream Cruise. Yet, we as consumers must learn from this situation and understand we have to be our own advocate as well as take accountability for knowing all the rules/policies/procedures. Again, not trying to being cold here, just want all parties to take a level of accountability. Brand bashing is a thing now-a-days and Social Media seems to promote it. One last thing, I have NO skin in the game. No stock in any cruise brand. "Let the Buyer Beware": We ALL need to read the LONG and BORING cruise contract from "soups to nuts". I assure everyone, it protects the Cruise Line over the client. This is NOT an Oceania Cruises issue, it is EVERY SINGLE cruise brand I have traveled on. The cruise contract is scary. "Special Needs": We hire travel agents and think they can see ALL the potential issue that can happen on a cruise ship. Travel agents especially when they know a guest has a disability, should do their due diligence. Yet we as guest have a responsibility also. So does the cruise brand. All three parties are at fault here. "Porters Assistance": Hit or miss. Especially outside the United States. Should Oceania have had a porter available, YES. Is it their responsibility, debatable. Can't fix the past for these folks, but we can sure learn from the OP's experience in the future. "I Will Never Cruise This Brand Again": Fine, but we as guest have to take some level of accountability for situations like this. We knew our guest had mobility issues, we knew we would be in a place outside of our country. If we needed to have a wheel chair/scooter/walker, for short walks, we should have brought one. I see them all the time being checked by the airlines and provided when the guest gets off the flight. My mother used to do this on every flight with no issue. Should the cruise brand have allowed the use of one of theirs, maybe but I would put dollars to donuts it was a legal issue. Read the contract. Everything is a legal issue. "Social Media Complaints": My career before retirement was in teaching brands "Issue Resolution". How to handle when things happen that make our clients upset. What was missing was how to teach a client how to get their issue resolved. Complaining on Social Media scratches an itch but the issue is not addressed. Feels good to let out some steam and maybe get some sympathy. We all need to have folks support our positions, it is human nature. However, the issue can only be resolved by direct communication before, during and after the issue happened with the brand. Sympathy from social media does not fix the issue for others, nor does it resolve our less then satisfyingly experience. Again, I am NOT trying to be harsh here. I am only expressing the thought, lots of errors were made in this situation and all parties need to accept the blame so it can be fixed in the future. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@zipher36 I am no expert but is seems Oceania offers airfare as part of its fare. When you want to book your own air, their is an amount (In my case is was $1000) that your fare is reduced if you do your own airfare. In the past, before the "SimplyMore" program, you could do a Cruise ONLY, or not use their airfare. When not using their Airfare, for me I apply the money reduce my fare as the amount I had to make my own airfare. I hope I answered your question. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.