Slow Foxtrot

For passengers who genuinely want to learn to dance and are absolute beginners it is well worth considering contacting your local dance-school and having a few private lessons on the basics before joining your cruise.

This would be a great help to those couples with little confidence. Often there are so many passengers crowding the floor at the beginners' classes that it is very difficult for the instructors to give personal attention to everyone and those at the back often have difficulty in seeing what the instructors are demonstrating.

There is no doubt about it that dancing in the evenings is one of the most enjoyable aspects of cruising and it is well worth the effort of learning properly. Yes, some of the dance instructors do a great job but you will have a head start if you have a few private lessons first. And, of course, there is a wealth of basic tuition free of charge on Youtube. Anything that gives you the confidence to start can only be a good thing.

Nice to know that Oriana is maintaining one of its main attractions for Ballroom & Latin dancers. Not always the case on other ships. Thanks for the info.

We were on Oriana over Christmas. We were 2nd sitting and there was pre-dinner dancing most nights followed by dancing after dinner most nights in Harlequins. The disco started at about 11.30pm in Harlequins most nights. Hope this helps.

Thanks for that reassuring information. Perhaps P & O need to amend the wording as regards Harlequins as it gives the impression that Ballroom Dancing is just for the daytime. We have done many Cunard cruises on the 'Queens' and although their dance-floors are bigger we still enjoy the strict-tempo dance music in Harlequins. Pity, though, that Johnny Baxter and Natural High are no longer in evidence. In past years, many cruise critics rated that band as the best at sea!

In the latest P & O e-mail brochure (post refit) it states words to the effect that ...

"Harlequins is great for Ballroom Dancing during the day but in the evenings the floor area is reduced for disco dancing" !!!

Does this mean that there is no Ballroom Dancing in the evenings in Harlequins? Surely not. For countless years the disco dancing has not started until very late in the evening. If, as P & O infer, Ballroom Dancing is only during the day then it's goodbye to P & O from the many dancers who have supported Oriana since its inaugural voyages.

Can anyone please clarify the latest dancing format in Harlequins?

Many thanks.

Hi Foxy, glad to see you are still around. Pity you aren't going to be on the Aurora next year. We are doing the SF to Southampton through the Panama. Would have been lovely to catch up with you and Mrs Foxy for a spin around the floor. :) mummsie

Hello Mummsie, it would certainly be nice to meet up again on the dance-floor but we have already sailed through the Panama Canal this year on Queen Victoria. Dancing apart I am sure you will enjoy Puerto Quetzal in Guatamala and Cartagena in Colombia. Incidentally, Queen Victoria has a very elegant dance-floor but it gets much too crowded on 'Ball' nights.

Have a great cruise on Aurora. Foxy.

Yes John James trio were on board in August and there was a mixture of ballroom, sequence and Latin played every night.

 

Sue

Thanks for that Sue. NIce to know things haven't changed much. The John James Trio have been playing on the Oriana for very many years. Look forward to dancing on Oriana again very soon. The dance floor is not as big as that on the QM2 but it's usually less crowded and the Oriana dance music is more suitable for UK dancers.

Thanks for the info. Do they still play some sequence dances alongside the ballroom, latin and jive? And is the John James Trio still around?

We have been dancing mostly on Cunard ships in the last few years but still prefer the 'Britishness' of dancing on the Oriana.

Would be interested to know if there is still dancing more or less every night in Harlequins. Some years ago Oriana had a brilliant band for dancing called Natural High. Oriana had some of the best dancing at sea - is this still the case? Thanks for any info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcloaked

We will be on the QE towards the end of the year, and are keen ballroom dancers. We noticed that at the Black and White Ball on our cruise there will be the "Officers Gavotte", but we don't know what the steps are or how this, presumably, old time dance works. Trying to find any information from a normal web search didn't give any useful information. Can someone post what the steps are and the position of men and ladies for this dance is?........

Here's a description found on Google.

We all took part in the usual Officers Gavotte, which is supposed to get guests mixing, but apart from a smile and friendly greeting, there is hardly time to actually meet anyone.

To explain the Officers Gavotte: People line up around the ballroom, with each man having a lady on either side. Then there are a repeated sequence of steps as follows: - 8 steps forward, 8 steps back, underarm turn for the woman on the right, then turn for the woman on the left, air kiss the woman on the right, then the woman on the left and then the women send the man forward to the ladies ahead, and greet their new partner. The orchestra plays the tune I know as The Teddy Bears Picnic - I don’t know if it has any other name – and get faster and faster with each sequence. It is good fun and it gets people out on the floor that otherwise would not venture out.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Incidentally, any connection with a Ballroom Gavotte (as danced at Blackpool Tower Ballroom) is purely accidental - the description 'Officers' Gavotte' being the definitive oxymoron. However, it goes down well as a fun dance in the Queens Ballroom, there is plenty of kissing and it ends with everyone running round the floor like demented dervishes. Ah, the sheer elegance of the Queens Ballroom!

.... I also find Paso Doble (the music, not the ludicrous posturing) is popular in Europe.

Hardly surprising Bob as the dance originated in Europe. However, the actual Paso Doble dance is very rarely played at UK social dances as very few dancers can execute it properly. There is, however, a Sequence Dance called Paso Madrid and this is danced at a number of Sequence Dancing venues. This is much easier than the original dance.

You are right that the dramatic Paso music is certainly popular in Europe even though very few dancers can do it justice.

.......Foxy, yer ole friend JR Ewing would have enjoyed the dance/dinner music at the Dallas Petroleum Club, I know that I did.........

Yes, but ole JR wouldn't be there to dance the Slow Foxtrot, he'd be there to flatter some painted hussy, once she'd been cleared by Harry McSween.

I've never been real fond of venues that have food and dancing in the same room. Invariably, little remnants of the food ends up on the dance floor and onto your dance shoes. Don't even get me started about drinks spilled on the dance floors.

 

Bob

Couldn't agree more. The idea of dancing up-tempo quicksteps or rock 'n' roll between courses doesn't bear thinking about. And the ladies wouldn't be too keen on dropping the food all over their latest dancing ensemble! However, we would make an exception for the Savoy dinner-dance but that would be for the exclusive ambience and not for the dancing.

I think medals are a good money-spinner for dance schools. They start you on the medal route and and you keep going because you have to be ready for that next exam day in 6 months. I spoke to someone last night at a social dance who said she felt they'd lost focus because they were not doing any medals at the moment and were not learning new routines and new steps.

 

Medals are also great for someone like me who is single and does not have a dance partner. I can still dance.

 

Here in the UK, and in Australia when I first learnt, medals are an alternative to competition dancing. You do one or the other.

Absolutely correct ... the medal tests are a great way to maintain interest and ensure continuous self-improvement. Although many dance students dance with their teacher when taking the various examinations we have never needed to do that for the simple reason that my wife was a gold-medal ballroom dancer as a teenager. So, I've been fortunate in that respect.

We have many friends who have tried competition dancing but eventually found that it takes much of the pleasure out of dancing as the worry of approaching competitions takes much of the pleasure out of what should be a really enjoyable pastime. And as you get older you can do without the pressure :)

We have similar weekly senior dances here too sponsored by the various community centers in the metro area. Unfortunatley, most of the "dancers" that attend these dances tend to be more elderly and seem to have no concept of real ballroom style dancing or of ballroom dance floor etiquette. However, we are fortunate that several of the area dance studios and ballrooms regularly feature live dance bands in addition to the usual recorded dance music. Being a retired professional musician, we try to support the places that hire live musicians for their dances.

 

Bob

In our part of the UK most of the best ballroom-dancing venues vary the dance nights between recorded strict-tempo CDs, live music on keyboard or organ, and occasionally a 'big band' night.

However, it has to be said that some of the 'big bands' are not always consistent at strict-tempo and, for this reason, many experienced ballroom dancers prefer to dance to strict-tempo recorded music. This also rings true for some of the dancers on the various Cunard ships.

Of course, it's always nice to hear the 'big-bands' and many people feel that the band's cavalier attitude (and sometimes sheer lack of knowledge) is a small price to pay for the pleasure of live dance-band music. Never the less we have a few specialist dance-bands that really know their business and these are often used for the top competitions.

One would have thought that the idea of a relaxing cruise was to escape from all that political brouhaha!

Our ballroom clubs are private, and accepte couples only for membership or as visitors for that matter. Rarely would a single person be brought as a guest.

 

There are certainly any number of other public venues where singles could dance and meet other singles. But our ballroom clubs are exactly as you describe yours.

Actually, Gene, the vast majority of social dancing venues in the UK are not private clubs and all competent ballroom and latin dancers are welcome. In addition there are hundreds of dance venues that specialise in Sequence Dancing but these appeal mostly to elderly people who seldom have the ability to dance competent ballroom and latin etc.

Many venues offer a combination of ballroom, latin, sequence and jive etc and these are very popular even with very experienced dancers.

As stated, these are not private clubs and no membership is required, just pay at the door.

In the vintage dance community, changing partners is the polite thing to do..... Social dancing should be social and how can one be social without meeting other people, and what better way to do that than on the dance floor. .....

Just shows how things vary in the dancing world vis-a-vis the USA and the UK. I would imagine that the nearest thing to a 'vintage dance community' is our Old Time Dancing. There are very few venues that feature this in the UK and even then I doubt if they are continually changing partners.

At our social dances we are certainly social inasmuch as we have some wonderful dance friends at many venues. Of course we all chat between dances and during the interval but it very rarely leads to an exchange of partners. Perhaps it's the traditional English reserve!

......Unfortunately, many dancers were never taught about Ballroom etiquette while they were learning to dance. If you are interested in learning about it, check out this link on Ballroom Etiquette .

 

Bob

The advice in the Ballroom Etiquette attachment indicates that at American social dances it is customary to frequently change partners. Is this still the norm? At the UK social dances it is quite rare for dancers to change partners. Generally, partners practise together and therefore dance much better as a couple and, in any case, our ladies are not keen on their menfolk getting too close for comfort with assorted partners, especially if they are very attractive! Perhaps American ladies are more understanding ???

DH is happy for us to cruise with Crystal because there is ballroom dancing. The dance instruction is handled by professionals and there are dance hosts. Almost coinciding with the ownership change, the hosts are no longer vetted 'in house' and the line now uses an agency for the hosts. 'Mama Lee' who loves to dance, lives on the Crystal Serenity.

 

Thank you for the ballroom information. Nice to have updated info about which cruise lines to consider for dancing.

Hi there, if you (or others who read this thread) have also cruised with Cunard it would be interesting to know how the size of the dance-floors on Crystal compare with those on the Queen Mary, Queen Vic and Queen Elizabeth. Are the dance-bands as good as Cunard? Sorry, but who is 'Mama Lee'? Thank you for the info.

I note that "Dancing With The Stars" has kicked off its fall season with two of Foxy's favorite judges, Len Goodman, and Bruno Cannolis in attendance.

I trust that you are joking Gene! I've no time for either of them. Our 'Strictly Come Dancing' programme is a travesty of ballroom dancing. Heaven knows who chooses the appalling music but, however dire and unsuitable it is, neither of the aforementioned judges has the courage to say so. Mustn't rock the hand that feeds you! As for Bruno Tonioli - I'm sure he knows more about watercress than ballroom dancing. Curious that after all these years none of the 'judges' appear to have demonstrated an elegant Slow Foxtrot. Still, the masses love the glitz and the glamour and that's all that matters to the BBC. On the plus side it has brought dancing to the public's attention and that can't be bad.

I think the reality is that ballroom dancing appeals to a small portion of the cruising population. Also the demographic is an older group. The cruise lines are a business and they are reaching out to many cruisers. It looks like Cunard is definitely the best for the ballroom dancing fans........

Dancing on P & O's Oriana is also very popular, there's a dedicated dance-floor and dance musicians who know the correct tempos. But yes, as you say, ballroom dancing may appeal to only a small portion of the cruising population but many dancers will only sail on ships where they can dance properly. On Queen Victoria earlier this year Cunard were providing the usual fencing lessons in the Queens Ballroom. Obviously, these appeal to only a minute proportion of the passengers and yet the ballroom dancing attracted a very keen and enthusiastic crowd every night. It's good that Cunard endeavours to cater for a variety of interests but for many passengers the elegance and atmosphere of dancing in the Queens Ballroom far outweighs other activities on the ship, even for passengers that can't dance and just enjoy watching. Long may it continue.

...The trios they had playing were pretty spotty, Ole Foxy might be advised to bring his horse whip!!:D

 

That is interesting as to your comments about Costa VS Cunard, as they seemed to care on Cunard about proper tempo; either that or Foxy had visited with them about that issue.....

Never been on a Princess cruise Gene but if their dance-trios are 'pretty spotty' as you describe then of course they deserve a good whipping. It's the only language they understand!

Nice to agree that Cunard bands now pay more attention to correct dance tempos. We were on Queen Victoria yet again this year and the Queens Room orchestras were all okay. All Cunard needs to do now is make the dance-floor twice the size and it should then be suitable for around 2500 passengers! Bigger floors may then even catch on with other cruise lines!

For foxy, Tangoll or whoever- have you any experience with the new WDSF syllabus? Not available in North America and horrendously expensive to order from Europe. Rumour has it there are now 37 figures in VW and that Tango has been withdrawn for a re-write.

Hi Bob,

Not had much experience of the World Dance-Sport Federation so not too interested in the 'new syllabus'. If 37 different figures in the Viennese Waltz is an example then I have even less interest! Why would you want their new syllabus? If dancers want ever-more dance movements and amalgamations there are hundreds freely available on Youtube, many demonstrated by top international dancers. Generally speaking, information on official syllabus movements is mainly required by potential medallists and teachers taking the various dance-medal examinations. Is this your angle? We enjoy our dancing and take it seriously (but in a social context) and find that too much worry about

rules and technicalities can undermine the enjoyment.

Foxy

Reference the comments about the different techniques needed for Ballroom dancing, Sequence, New Vogue and Old Time:

Although we are long-time ballroom dancers we try the occasional Old Time dance and find that they are far from easy! To dance them properly requires a great deal of practice and very good balance- as much of the dances are danced apart so there is often no support for either partner. The link below shows two dance teachers dancing the Wedgewood Blue Gavotte. It's a very graceful dance and is ocasionally featured at the Tower Ballroom, Blackpool - although not many dancers can do it this kind of justice!

So here's my question. What is the normal practice at social dances in various countries? (Has Australia changed since my days of going to Danse Court in Melbourne?) Do people dance routines or are they encouraged in floorcraft?

The simple answer is that dancers who do not have floorcraft skills HAVE to dance routines because they have no option. In the UK the dance teachers have to teach routines to get their pupils smoothly around their private dance-floor. As the medal grades progress they add a few more amalgamations but they are still routines, albeit more complicated. Dancers normally have to go through all this before even thinking of good floorcraft.

To dance smoothly and elegantly around a busy social ballroom (without interruption) both partners need to be very competent dancers. Usually they are long-term partners and probably practise privately. The big problem, of course, about learning routines is that when you are blocked or obstructed on a busy floor your routine goes out of the window!

As in all things the answer to learning floorcraft is regular practise with a regular partner. The know-how can come from private lessons with a good teacher or videos if you have the facilities to practise privately.

Good floorcraft does not come easily but is well worth the many years of practice.

Like everywhere else, I imagine, at good UK social dances many couples have to dance routines while the best dancers have a repertoire of numerous movements that they can interchange as the floor conditions dictate.