NHDOC

1 hour ago, vkb2751 said:

Can someone please give the email address for resolutions dept. Thank you

The one I have used for Celebrity is:

CelebrityEngagementCenter@celebrity.com
 

I don't think the resolutions department has a direct email address or phone number.

I do eventually hear back from them either by email or phone after a few days.

19 minutes ago, fwdpost said:

Celebrity - four departments -  says they don't have to refund non-refundable airfare from Celebrity Air even though they cancelled cruise.

Looks like they depends on when the cruise was scheduled to leave:

41. If my cruise was canceled due to the voluntary suspension of sailings, and our flights were booked with Flights by
Celebrity, will they be refunded?
Sailings canceled between March 15 – April 10, 2020
• Guests with refundable air travel booked through Flights by Celebrity will be refunded automatically and the
$200 penalty will be waived.
• Guests with nonrefundable flights booked through Flights by Celebrity will receive a refund.
• Guests who made independent air arrangements need to contact their air carriers directly for available options.
Sailings canceled between April 11 – May 11, 2020
• All guests with refundable air travel booked through Flights by Celebrity will be refunded automatically and the
$200 penalty will be waived.
• Guests from North America with nonrefundable flights booked through Flights by Celebrity will need to contact the
air carrier to check for available options. Guests outside North America with nonrefundable flights booked through
Flights by Celebrity will need to have the terms of the ticket reviewed by the booking office.
• Guests who made independent air arrangements need to contact their air carriers directly for available options.

10 hours ago, jerryd1 said:

 

We are, too.    That would be the taxes and port charges that Lisa Lutoff-Perlo  President and CEO Celebrity Cruise Lines stated in the notice of cancellation received on March 23 that "You can expect to receive a refund for cruise taxes and fees within 10 days"

The mistake you made was in assuming she meant "Earth days" which was not explicitly stated, but probably something buried in the fine print of your contract saying they get to chose what planet's day definition to use to suit the situation.  By using days on Mercury they are still far ahead of schedule. 

Seriously, the foot dragging on the part of Celebrity is inexcusable.  I had requested that all of our future cruise deposits on hand with all of the cruise lines be refunded a couple of weeks ago and yesterday I received credits back to our Visa for those held by HAL but nothing from Princess or Celebrity yet.  Once again, HAL has shown itself to know how to do business.

The game Celebrity plays with deposits being refundable or non refundable (or partially refundable) is so off-putting when they aren't even sailing says a lot about their appreciation of loyalty.  It's not enough that people are willing to extend them an interest-free loan but when they dare ask for it back because they changed their mind they find out there's a penalty.  And, of course you cannot use FCC for it - they only want cash, more cash. 

Found out once that a refundable $900 deposit meant we only lost $200 when we cancelled.  What scum.

I cannot imagine any ports are going to let cruise ships dock this year.

18 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

I'm just curious here about refunds and how long people are waiting.  If Celebrity, not you, cancelled your cruise, when was the cruise date, when was it officially cancelled, and when did you get your refund?  I'm not asking about FCC, just refunds.    I'm only asking because of the small possibility of my August cruise being cancelled and how long it would take to process.  For me, I also have airfare and an excursion included to be refunded, so length of time kind of matters for me...

 

Thanks!

There really doesn't seem to be any correlation between the dates of cancellation and dates of refunds being issued from what I have been able to observe from the posts made here.  There may be one factor though.  If you booked through a TA it is possible that the process takes longer than if you booked direct with Celebrity.  They may be in the process of trying to work out deals with TA's to get them some of their commissions on the cancelled cruises as I have heard that Carnival has agreed to let TA's keep their commissions.  So that might be part of the delays.  They don't want to alienate the TA's or have them favor a line who treated them better once cruises start sailing again so may be trying to settle with them before making refunds to their customers.  This is only conjecture though as I have seen a couple of posts from people who got their refunds fast who said they booked direct so it could be a factor. 

My advice to you for your August cruise is to wait them out if they have not cancelled it yet.  They most likely will but are hoping you will first so they don't have to offer you the sweeter deal of 125% FCC or refund.  You have until 48 hours prior to the sailing date to cancel and will get the same deal from them (100% FCC) so why cancel early?  If you want a refund wait for them to cancel, which they probably will, and then request it.  I don't think anyone will be on cruise ships in August (not this August anyway) so it's probably like 95% sure they will cancel. It will take as long as it takes but if they don't process it in a timely manner you can always resort to disputing the charges with your credit card company (assuming you paid by CC).  That will get you instant refunds. 

I am pleased to report that despite Celebrity's stonewalling that Chase Visa has given me provisional credit for our deposits which were charged in September of 2019 after I submitted a request in writing to them via mail last week.  I have now been given credit back for all of the money we paid for the two cruises that they canceled the day after we canceled.  Some still remains provisional but I am fairly sure they will become permanent credits eventually since the first batch I disputed became permanent last week. 

My suspicion is that it's probably illegal for Celebrity to force people to accept FCC for cruises they actually canceled regardless of whether the customer canceled before they did or not, not that they would disclose this.  Celebrity's original "Cruise with Confidence" offer of 100% FCC as long as you cancel no less that 48 hours prior to sailing date (while they were still sailing) was based upon them planning on them having to "eat" some vacant cabins when the cruises sailed and they could not resell them in time, but once they canceled the cruises it is a harder position for them to support forcing customers to accept FCC because they didn't have to sail with vacant cabins (they didn't sail at all). It's probably why they cannot fight the disputed charges or the credit card companies are basically interpreting the law themselves and saying to the cruise company that unless you can prove the cruise the customer paid for actually sailed you must give the customer their money back if they ask for it.

The only money we are still waiting for is the 25% refund we were promised for the 3/6-3/15 sailing we actually went on.  That's still in the works according to Celebrity but I have also now requested that Visa go ahead and dispute the 25% refund amount against that charge and sent them the letter indicating we were supposed to be refunded but never received it.  Since the dispute process has worked well so far and it's now been well over 60 days since they promised the refund I have nothing to lose by disputing that amount as well.

I wanted to post something about how a GOOD company handles this.  We had purchased a medical travel insurance policy from Seven Corners last year which was supposed to cover our medical expenses while traveling abroad.  It is the kind of policy where you buy a year's coverage at a time and prepay for the whole year.  I contacted the company last Friday by email and mentioned that our policy still has about 5 months left on it but obviously we won't be traveling and wondered if they could refund the premium paid for the balance of the term or offer to suspend coverage until the world opened back up again.  They responded quickly that while the policy typically isn't refundable they are making exceptions and said they would refund the pro-rated amount left and sure enough this morning the credit showed up on our credit card.  So they have earned our business again when things open up.

As for cruise insurance, the WORST possible option is buying the coverage offered by the cruise lines.  They just market insurance from others and probably get a 50% kickback from the insurers.  Best option is to go for a credit card that offers travel insurance which our Chase card does.  It's not a free card but the annual fee is saved many times over by the perks like free travel insurance.  The only thing it doesn't cover is medical which is why I opted for the Seven Corners policy.  I'm sure that once the dust settles these policies will change again so it is best to read them carefully.

Having said that it is once again unconscionable that Celebrity kept the premiums paid for the CruiseCare coverage when a cruise is cancelled (either by the customer or cruise line) and the coverage wasn't even used as they apparently did to Chief190.  Most of the coverage you pay for is things like medical, lost luggage, travel interruption and those you could not even use!  It's nothing short of theft to keep the money under these special circumstances that nobody could foresee.  I am sure if you were a squeaky enough wheel you would get your money back or at least get coverage on the re-booked trip for free.  I would take my time and work my way up the food chain at Celebrity to see if I could get that resolved in my favor if it were me.  Maybe a call to your local TV station's consumer reporter would help grease the refund skids.

3 minutes ago, NHDOC said:

I've enjoyed the back and forth here but won't be monitoring this thread from here on out.  Too many people just trying to pick fights.  Good luck to all of you who still have FCCs or deposits with the cruise lines.  I hope, one day, they will be usable.  For now I will wait with my cash in hand and will probably sail again one day when it is prudent to do so.

 

19 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen was the co founder of what eventually became Royal Caribbean. Unfortunately he died April 11, 2020. It was very generous of him to do what he did for the company.

from what I have read the son, and current Director is Arne Alexander Wilhelmsen, the father was Arne Wilhelmsen who died in April in Spain.   He died at age 90 in Spain during the height of the COVID-19 outbreak with no cause of death given.

OK, so I was wrong about them not securing some money but that just proves more of my point.  The directors, who certainly have a vested interest in seeing the cruise line survive (and the stock recover) are willing to LOAN the line money, not without interest though.  Yet, they are asking their customers to loan them money (in the form of the FCCs) at no interest with no assurance of ever being paid back.  Those loans are secured by the ships themselves, which have a book value 6-7x the loan amount.  Customers have no such collateral and are unsecured creditors in the event of bankruptcy. 

Nobody knows how long the cruise lines will be hemorrhaging money but one thing is for sure, it will be a long while before any of them is profitable again.  Their assurances of liquidity by saying they have enough cash and secured credit to last 6, 8 or 12 months isn't very reassuring to me.  Carnival announced they are resuming cruises in August while NCL has cruises scheduled for July.  Anyone who thinks there will be cruises this summer is delusional, but maybe the management are dumb like foxes as they continue to take deposits and payments from suckers and offer in return only assurances of "future credits" if cancelled. 

Yes, excellent management.  Cruise with CONfidence.

Just now, omeinv said:

I'd actually been told Sundays only.  I've had two amounts refunded, and my mother has had one.  All occurred on Sundays (although they show up on the credit card several days later).  Once the credit shows up, you'll see a date, adjacent to the credit indicating the day your bank received it.  Just like a charge will be pending for a few days before it actually applies to your balance, so does a credit.  The difference is most card issuers don't show pending credits on your on-line info the way they show pending charges. 

 

My first refund appeared on my account on Friday, April 24; but had been credited on Sunday, April 19.  The second, and the one my mother received, appeared on accounts on Wednsday, May 6; but had been credited on Sunday, May 3. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

He who chastises me for insisting on getting my money back doesn't seem to be willing to let them hold his money.  Interesting....

to read the whole release go to:

https://www.rclinvestor.com/press-releases/release/?id=1470

The Company estimates its cash burn to be, on average, in the range of approximately $250 million to $275 million per month during a suspension of operations.  This range includes ongoing ship operating expenses, administrative expenses, and debt service expense, hedging costs, expected necessary capital expenditures (net of committed financings in the case of newbuilds) and excludes cash refunds of customer deposits as well as cash inflows from new and existing bookings.

They also disclose holding $2.4B in customer deposits.  My guess is that's their "cash on hand" but they do not say how much of that is already committed to refunds requested but not yet fulfilled. 

4 minutes ago, omeinv said:

They are hardly out of money to issue refunds, Just today they reported 2.5 Billion (B) of cash and cash equivalents on hand.  In the same filing they reported that 45% of those entitled to refunds chose cash, while 55% chose the future cruise credits. 

 

Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/royal-caribbeans-stock-rallies-after-covid-19-related-business-and-liquidity-update-2020-05-08

 

Harris

Denver, CO

they don't really say in that release how much of their cash on hand is already committed to the refunds requested by the 45% who have asked and haven't received them.  That's what would worry me.  They say they are burning through enough on operations to last around 10 more months before becoming insolvent but subtract out the refunds from that and in reality they may be much closer to insolvency. 

When I called in a couple of weeks ago inquiring about one of my refunds I was told the delay was caused by a problem with their bank.  I know lots of people who have the same problem.  No money in the account. 

RCCL is the only of the big three lines who hasn't said they have secured money to remain solvent.  Both CCL and NCL have issued press releases since the shutdown saying how many billions they have raised to cover operations (and presumably refunds) during the shutdown but nothing from RCCL which leads me to believe they are the least solvent of the three.

FWIW also my brother received an email from Celebrity last night offering him a free verandah cabin on any one of a number of cruises at the end of the year.  He has been known to spend a great deal of time in the Casino and this was sent as an incentive to get him back onboard.  He won't set foot on another cruise ship until there's a vaccine, so in this case they literally can't give cabins away. 

9 minutes ago, RosieRoo said:

The refund for my deposit on a cancelled Celebrity cruise came back as a credit to my CC but listed as Royal Caribbean. I have never seen that before.  

Sounds like they have entered a "creative bookkeeping" era.  Probably a sign that Celebrity is out of money to issue refunds which we all know is the real reason things are taking so long. 

For those of you considering filing credit card disputes I was told by Visa that we could dispute charges made up to 18 months ago as long as the trip that was supposed to take place was canceled no more than 120 days ago.  In other words, if an airline or cruise line canceled a trip in the past 4 months you can dispute the payment for it even if you made that payment 18 months ago.  I am not sure how the other credit cards handle the timeframes but the dispute process with Visa is certainly very consumer friendly.  Just don't let that 120 day window close.

I got notified this morning from Visa that one of the charges we disputed with Celebrity for a cancelled cruise was approved as being a valid dispute and went from provisional to permanent.  So that's progress.  Still waiting on two others to be made "whole" on the canceled trips and still no sign of the 25% credit they promised us on March 7, so that's now over 60 days. 

I find it amusing that Celebrity quotes their turnaround times for credits in "business days" but then told one customer "credits are only issued on Wednesdays and Sundays".  So, apparently the whole "business day" thing is just another excuse for making it seem like they are working faster than they actually are when it is clear they are working 7 days a week on this but only counting 5 of them towards their committed times to resolve them.

I love it when people tell others to suck up a loss when it isn't their money. 

Anyway I don't get sucked into arguments with trolls whose comments don't add anything to the conversation. 

3 minutes ago, aholter66 said:

61 days from refund request – no refund yet.

 

I was booked on my first Princess Cruise back in 2019.  It was on the Island Princess for a 28-day Baltic Sea and Iceland cruise departing on June 23^rd.

 

When the COVID-19 thing surfaced, and Princess first announced their updated refund policy, I cancelled my voyage and was informed I had a Future Cruise Credit (FCC) or cash option.  I chose cash.  I was then informed that I should receive my $20,000 refund in 15 days – depending on my bank.  My cancellation email notice was dated March 7, 2020.  Princess later cancelled this cruise on their own.

 

The next day, credits started to show up on my credit card – credits for the excursions that I had booked during the cruise.  If fact, by the end of the first week, I had received a refund for all ship and non-ship excursions, pre-cruise hotels, and airline tickets.  The only refund that I had not received was for the cruise itself, from Princess.

The 15 days passed and I received no refund.  A call to Princess indicated that it was really 15 business days (That may have been what was said in the beginning.  I wasn’t paying as much attention then).  During that time window, there was a major cruise ship line announcement on cruise ship voyage cancellations (about March 13), dramatically increasing the number of people that would be seeking refunds.  On my next call, Princess informed me that because of higher volumes, it might be 20-30 business days.

 

I have kept calling Princess and the process seems to keep being adjusted, but still there is no payment.  The first process adjustment that I received said that the timeline had changed, due to the number of refund requests, and that it was now 60 days until payment would be received.  On the next call I said I understood the new explanation, but that it was hard to understand with my refund request coming in before the surge in requests, why it would still take up to 60 days.  The explanation was that they were now processing the requests in order of the ship's scheduled departure.

 

So I have continued t call every week, getting slightly different explanations.  Today was a big day.  It has now been 61 days since cancellation.  I called again.  This time the explanation is different.  First, I was referred to a statement on Refunds and Future Cruise Credits on their web site dated April 20, 2020.  They no longer commit to a 80 day period.  They just indicate it will happen sometime.

 

Frankly at this point, you can only conclude that Princess is being dishonest.  They have no money.  They have ours, and despite public pronouncements, they have no intention of returning it to us.  As time goes on, they appear to have invented new policies, explanations, and concepts on why no money can be returned. I find it doubtful that they ever will process a refund, and frankly don’t believe they will ever sail again.  All of the statements that they have made to me on refunds have turned out to not be true (This is a little more politic way of restating the dishonesty that I feel).  Please, please do not book any future reservations, you may well be throwing your money away.

See my free advice above about credit card disputes.  You have the right to dispute the charges if they owe you the money and haven't paid it...you probably will get it back if you take it up with the credit card company. 

4 minutes ago, BP99 said:

Still waiting for a 100% refund for April 5 and April 17 Silhouette cruises (B2B).

After waiting more that 50 days, I contacted Celebrity by email for information

on the delay.

They responded that it would take 2 weeks to RESPOND to my email.

My (free) advice would be if you paid by CC contact the CC company to find out what their dispute policy is for merchandise and services not received is.  I found out yesterday that the time limit for Visa is actually 120 days after the date the item was promised, so even if you paid a year ago for it you can still dispute it.  If you wait much longer that window may close and if you dispute it you get credit (provisional) instantly and you have the leverage over Celebrity instead of the other way around.

7 minutes ago, harz99 said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the refunds you've had were all for cruises already cancelled by the cruise lines or materially affected cruises that were already taking place? My concern is centred around future booked cruises not yet paid in full.

Yes, my refunds were for cruises which were paid in full and which were canceled by the cruise line.  The snag for me is I was coerced into canceling them the day before they canceled them so they claim that because I canceled first I am not entitled to a refund, only a FCC.  They claim I agreed to that, which, technically I did but it was based upon their misrepresentation of the future plans.  They told me on the 12th that a sailing on the 15th was "absolutely going to sail", then on the 13th they canceled it.  But my deadline to cancel without losing our money completely was by the end of the day on the 12th so we were pressured into accepting their FCC because that was their policy in place on the 12th, but not on the 13th. 

1 minute ago, omeinv said:

It sounds like you've received provisional credits from your credit card companies.  The telling point will be when the merchants respond to the credit card firm's investigation with documentation that they acted in accordance withthe contract.  Also, even if a credit card dispute finds in your favor, the merchant can still then take collection actions to recover a debt. 

 

In short, be careful of declaring victory too soon.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Most of the disputes have already been closed, but, you are correct that my dispute with Celebrity is still pending.  I have a few more weeks before that one closes out.  One would have to ask ones self why is Celebrity so unwilling to simply make a refund against an FCC if they believe the FCC has the same value as the refund if, for no other reason, than to make the customer happy.  Personally, I feel I was lied to on March 12, when I asked about options I was told the sailing on the 15th was "absolutely going to sail" and my only choices were to go on it, cancel that day and receive FCC or forfeit the fare if we didn't cancel and didn't go.  They can say they didn't lie but they did, the fact is they canceled the cruise less than 24 hours later and changed their policy.  They didn't say "we have no plans to cancel the cruise" they said it "absolutely was going to sail" and it absolutely didn't sail, it was canceled. 

12 minutes ago, harz99 said:

 

I wish you well in your endeavours, personally i'd love to see you succeed because it would open the floodgates for the rest of us, however that is also why I think you haven't a cat in hells chance of being successful. We all signed up to various contractual terms, and unless our cruises are cancelled by the cruise line or are provided in a very materially different way, both parties are entitled to expect the other party in the contract to abide by the contract terms.

So far, my efforts, which included Visa disputes have gotten me back over $10,000 I would have had to accept as FCC had I not fought for it and now I am down to the last $1400 or so they still owe on deposits made long ago.  So, my cat's chance is looking pretty good.  This cat has 8 more lives left. 

The cruise lines can say "you agreed to accept this..." as their excuse but making an offer I couldn't refuse is what they did and there's such a thing as agreeing to something under duress or by having a party with undue influence over you that would invalidate such an agreement in a court of law.  In other words if they told me you can take FCC or take nothing and I agreed to take FCC they can't enforce that agreement because the they exercised their power to threaten "nothing" if I didn't accept FCC.