dshroyer

On 12/5/2023 at 1:03 PM, SpareBrew said:

They ran out supplies about 6 days in including Tito’s, Kahlua, Diet Coke, Pepsi Zero and limes.  

We were on the same cruise in YC.  Out of Kahlua.  That must be why on the last day we ordered a Espresso Martini and got vodka and coffee.  

13 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Your thesis is that MSC "is building its new ships to intentionally underservice its passengers" and you cite the passengers to crew (with no apparent understanding or knowledge of "staff" versus "crew" or "tonnage" in ignorans) ratio and the related ratings of 134 on CruiseCritic as proof.  😂

 

I am sorry, but after only a few recent MSC short cruises there appears to be more time spent bashing MSC than was actually spent on the MSC ships.

 

There is a solution, go elsewhere.

The title of my post is possible reason why Seashore and Seascape seem understaffed.  This is mentioned over and over in the comments.  My point is that when they built the ships, they were OK with that passenger to crew ratio.  It is higher than the competition.  Does not mean that MSC is bad.  Every cruise has a different level of service depending on time of year, duration, location, etc.  But it does indicate that MSC executives are more comfortable with a higher number than the competition. And that is part of their business model and why they can offer such great value.  

You mentioned I have spent more time bashing MSC than staying on their ships.  Well, I have spent 22 days on their ships and 3 days on this forum.

I really did not mean this post as a bash against MSC but rather a possible explanation as to why so many people complain about service.  

I am sorry that so many yacht club people take offense to my post.  And for that I am sorry.  

Life is too short to worry about such trivial things as cruise ships.  

As a parting word I will leave you with an article.

Why Are MSC Cruises So Cheap? (cruisehive.com)

How Does MSC Cruises Keep Prices So Low?

While the cruise line uses a variety of cost-cutting strategies, most are designed to be unnoticeable for passengers. 

Amongst the various strategies they use to keep prices low while maintaining profitability, is to maximize passenger capacity on board their ships. Simply put, having more people on each ship allows them to keep pricing low.

While they still have to abide by domestic and international safety standards when it comes to allowing passengers onboard their cruise ships, the ratio of staff to passengers is unique. They also reduce cabin sizes to accommodate more passengers on each ship.

4 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

Now we get to the HEART of the matter.  MSC is bad because it has a Yacht Club, taking away from services to non-Yacht Club.  Ugh.  No mention of NCL Haven or Celebrity Retreat.  Likely also social inequality providers?  Yikes.  I guess that makes the selection of even staterooms unfair and a disservice to many categories.

 

Just go Carnival, or their 'premium line' HAL.

 

I was in the yacht club.  I have two more yacht clubs booked. (which I may cancel) If I thought the yacht club was bad, why would I book it 3 times?  Not sure what you are getting at.

What is my narrative? You are looking at this from a yacht club perspective.  Look at Haven or Retreat.

Fine.  MSC may be better than those.  I have no idea.  But my original post is about the entire ship.  Not a yacht club comparison. 

4 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

You are displaying what is known as confirmation bias as you'll only look for what supports your narrative.  There's nothing wrong with that.  I happens all the time.

 

You have cognitive dissonance.  Happens all the time.  :>)

4 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Well, you didn't state that it was your 4th MSC cruise.  Which brings to mind a fair question, if you do not like MSC why the 2nd, 3rd and 4th decision to continue?

 

 

 

My first three cruises were non yacht club in 2022.  We had a great time.  But the ships were about 50% full.  I thought it was a great value and thought the service was comparable to other lines.  I even told people that I recommend the line.  But seeing the Seashore full was a back breaker for me.  Even though we were in yacht club.  When we left the ship was hot and packed.  

The reason why I picked those lines and ships is because I have sailed on them.  And I wanted a quick analysis of the Seashore to ships and lines that I knew. (Except not the Euriba)

If you want to prove my theory faulty, I encourage you to do all of the ships and lines.  (But you may not like what you find).  My point is that MSC builds it ships with less crew in mind for the amount of passengers.  Maybe they have robots below deck and that is how they can do it.  But I have also read cruise articles that say the reason why the fares are cheaper is the lower amount of labor and that is shown in the ship design.

On 12/26/2023 at 2:41 PM, Erekosse said:

I sent the form to this address for my March cruise on Seascape. The response I got indicated that I should carry my CPAP machine onto the ship and to bring my own distilled water as MSC does not supply distilled water. I'm not sure if this is a new policy, but I wanted to update folks.

I got the same response.  But I have received it in the past.  But it was in a bottle as the picture above shows.  I believe the ship actually makes distilled water and then they add the minerals back in for taste.  They may just be getting it "from the source" before the minerals are added. 

12 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

 

So, you completed a 4-day cruise, made a judgement about the entire cruise line, cherry picked stats re: ratios and, low and behold, MSC's 'business plan' is to 'underservice customers!'

 

Look at the stats for the harmony and compare to the Seashore.  Very similar passenger counts.  Yet the Harmony ship has almost 1K more crew members!  Are you saying that MSC can provide a similar customer experience with 1K less crew?

I do not understand how this can even be debatable. Seems like you are making excuses for MSC.

I think it is clear that MSC has a low-price strategy. And the way they implement that low price is via labor cuts.  (as compared to other lines) That is why the ships have less crew cabins.  It is their formula.  Nothing wrong with that.  Not saying that MSC is not a good value. But it is their business plan.

I agree that the other lines are also "packed" and there are also complaints about food.  BUT if you look at the other lines most of the aggregate customer ratings are in the high 3's or low 4's.  Seashore is 2.8 POOR.

The ship is beautiful.  What could make people rate is so low?

And please do not bring up the yacht club.  It is less than 5% of the ship and that is truly "cherry picking".  

5 hours ago, Av8tor said:

i understand your concept of the passenger per crew metric, but I think your last sentence above is expressed backwards.  For "better" service I'd rather have 5 crew per pax than 2 crew per pax OR 2 pax  per crew  instead of 5 pax per crew...

Yes.  Ha.  exactly backwards.  Thanks

12 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Seriously, the MSC and Yacht Club hits keep coming.  That's great!  The USA based ships MSC Yacht Club staterooms are one the toughest to find.  Wonder why?  Oh, 'unhappiness' of course.

 

So, you completed a 4-day cruise, made a judgement about the entire cruise line, cherry picked stats re: ratios and, low and behold, MSC's 'business plan' is to 'underservice customers!'

 

This was my 4th MSC cruise.  What ratios did I cherry pick?  Just showing that the ship was designed for lesser service.  Price has nothing to do with that fact other than it explains how MSC can undercut the competition.  I did not judge the entire cruise line.  I said "the new MSC ships".  Can you explain why they built the ships with the notion of packing more passengers per crew member than other lines?  

And I was not talking about yacht club.  But now that you bring it up.  That makes the ratio even worse.  Some lines, like HAL, do not have a dedicated area.  So those crew members can serve the general public.  On MSC part of that crew count goes to serve less than 5% of the population. Meaning that "the rest of the ship" even has a higher passenger to crew ratio.

We just completed a 4-day cruise on the Seashore in the Yacht Club.  We felt the ship was very crowded and we were even disappointed with the Yacht Club service.  As I look at all the cruise critic reviews, there are mostly complaints about food quality and service.  Why is that?  Why does it seem understaffed?

My theory is because the ships were designed for lesser service.  What do I mean?

Here is a quick analysis that I put together.  It shows various ships big and small.  And it calculates the “passengers per crew” metric.  The lower the number the better.  Much better to be on a ship where there are 2 crew members per passenger than 5 crew per passenger, right? 

If you look at the grid you will see something jump out.  The new MSC ships have a lot higher passenger to crew rates! 30% to 40% higher than their competitors.  They cannot “hire more people” to provide better service because the ship is built with a limited amount of crew members. The only thing they can do to increase service is to limit the number of passengers onboard.  (To fall in line with competitive ratios)

We were on the Maraviglia twice last year and loved it.  But the ship was only about 60% full.  If you look at the grid you will notice that the Seashore has 831 more passengers than the Maraviglia but only 13 more crew members!  What? 

These new ships have been built to provide a lower level of service.  Is it a coincidence that MSC cruises are about 30% cheaper than their competitors and the service ratio is about 30% worse?

Bottom line is if food and beverage service is not important then you can have a good time on one of these newer ships.  But I would say that you cannot expect to get the same level of service as the other competitors, at least based on these numbers. Unless you can get on a ship that is less than 70% capacity.

23 hours ago, jaxdog315 said:

Considering that it is dubious whether an MSC will always stock top shelf brands.  Do you think that it is worth it to upgrade to the MSC Premium beverage package?  Thanks.  

I say no. They were out of most premium brands in yacht club a few weeks ago. I would not go higher than plus. Even them many bottled beers were out of stock 

19 minutes ago, jjjct said:

We will be on Seashore in March in YC, would like your veiw on you YC experience. Our 1st time on MSC mostly have cruised NCL 15X a few in Haven, which we loved. 

Here is the review of the yacht club I posted last week.

MSC Seashore Cruise Ship: Review, Photos & Departure Ports on Cruise Critic

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

Ships order provisions based on what they project that they will use.

 

However, those projections can be skewed by the passengers on board.

 

I was on a high end luxury cruise line.  The ship ran out of cream for coffee by the third day because of a certain large party of passengers who would drink glasses of cream with each meal  and pour it in their muesli.

 

The ship managed to get a limited amount at the next port, but  the cream was available only upon request and served in 1 - 2 oz portions for coffee.

I would agree with your statement for other cruise lines.  But MSC is continually out of inventory.  If you read the comments like "On day 5 the salad bar had no lettuce or salad dressing".  Or "On day 4 the bars ran out of vodka and Coke Zero".  Those are not perishable items.  I think they purposefully limit the safety stock so that each cruise is profitable.  Stock Bar A with one good bottle of Bourbon X and then when it is out do not stock another one until the next cruise.  Meanwhile they have their "elite drink package" money from you.  

I am convinced that when it comes to food and drink they have allowances for each cruise.  That way they ensure that each cruise is profitable.  If they have big eaters or drinkers then they will just run out of stuff.  We were on a cruise when the ship ran out of butter.  And eggs.  I was on the Seashore a few weeks ago and the first day the yacht club was out of most wines.  No wine list for dinner.  In the yacht club!  This tells me they are allocating by cruise.  Just my opinion.  

If you are in a taxi or ride share just tell them to NOT get in the standing car lane to the right.  Stay to the left, middle lane, and continue past that and they can drop you off right at the luggage.  Have a great cruise.

On 12/7/2023 at 11:50 AM, JCMAN said:

So I've only ever cruised once before, many years ago (2005) on Royal Caribbean. Some friends of mine decided to book on MSC. As a solo traveler I booked my own cabin about a month out, spending $390 + $110 port expenses and fees = $500. I was upgraded from an interior room to a deluxe balcony. 

I was also offered the opportunity to bid on an upgrade. I bid, and was countered a deluxe Yacht Club suite for $440pp at double occupancy despite being solo = $880 additional. I accepted, then cancelled the bid, then regretted it and tried to get it back. No dice, so I sailed in a balcony with the standard Bella experience.

 

 The cruise was fun, but overall I wouldn't plan to travel on MSC again based on my experience.

 

The good

 

• The ship itself is big and beautiful. Nice varied design throughout. The ship is well maintained and clean. Occasionally there was something like a soap dispenser running out of soap or an elevator call screen being out, but the ship is well maintained. There was no obvious sign of wear in my cabin either with the exception of a slight Crack at the base of my balcony light switch.
•   Wifi on the stream package was overall reliable and usable for video calls. YouTube is gonna buffer a bit particularly on the at-sea day but it's still impressive to be connected at sea.
•  All of the staff are extremely polite and friendly.
• Many places to get alcohol on board to keep the party going. You're basically tripping over bars, so if you get a drink package you can get your money's worth.
• Ocean Cay is a great stop, not too big, internet and drink packages work ashore. Water and beach/land were very clean.
• Breakfast buffet was great. Pizza at buffet was far better than I expected and was actually good.
• I found both butchers cut and hola tacos to be worth the price of admission. If you're a solo traveler and go to butchers cut, they will still serve you the meal for two if you purchase the package. Appetizer, 20oz ribeye, dessert and wine.   

 

The bad

• The buffet is not varied. There is a wide variety but by day three I felt like i was running out of options. Only one small section of three trays really changed day to day for international food.
• Having only one buffet even though it's large it gets extremely crowded at peak meal times.Bar at the buffet is limited.
• The MSC for Me wristband isn't worth an optional purchase. It worked for my room but not at most bars. I asked for re-encoding and then it didnt work anywhere. I asked for a refund and was declined as it was "merchandise". They replaced it on the last night and then it worked. They were apologetic, but said company policy prohibited them from giving me a refund. 
• MSC for me app is semi functional but not intuitive. Expect app crashes and to need to force close the app when chat freezes.
• There is nowhere to purchase pain reliever on board. Acetaminophen and ibuprofen both reduce fever, so I suspect this is a ploy to make sick people go to medical however, if you go to medical, they state they will charge you $180 for evaluation. So if you just have a headache from a hangover and forgot to pack pain reliever, you’re basically out of luck without spending an exorbitant amount of money.
• Some bars go to 1am, but all pools and hot tubs close at 8pm, which is ridiculously early on such a beautiful ship.

 

The ugly

• People who say the food on MSC is bad aren’t joking. They sat the twelve of us at the same dining room table at the 5th Ave dining room. The only time all of us ate there was dinner the first evening. We were so underwhelmed. None of the food was good enough to take pictures of. Steak cooked medium rare was proper done inside but very small very thin and fat was not rendered and chewy. Plates are small. Three of us went back for a second dinner in MDR were similarly underwhelmed.
• To underscore how bad the food is, I ordered carne asada in MDR and received this. it was completely unseasoned, cold, and… Tasted identical to the pot roast that was served at the buffet for lunch. So cold that I’m convinced that it was the same pot roast served from lunch and brought to the dining room.
• A friend got sick after eating at the buffet on departure day and after six hours was violently ill. Medical seemed adversarial and threatened to charge $180 before they realized how ill she truly was. She was quarantined for 24hrs as a precaution if it was contagious illness. The quarantine isn't the issue, it's how MSC handled it.
• She was quarantined for 24hrs. Her roommate in an interior room wasn't... So what was the point of quarantine again? Friend asked if can get another cabin sorry fully booked. When quarantine ended she had to call medical to verify, they said she's fine. Nobody proactively checked on her, which is not great when you're sick on a cruise ship. The quarantine was not properly removed from her cruise ID, but this didn't reflect anywhere on the ship except at embarkation/disembarkation. They didn't clear her from quarantine on the computer. So she got stopped while the security people checked with medical at Nassau, and was delayed exiting the ship upon return to Port Canaveral.
• In essence this means if you're sick you're basically on your own. If someone is potentially contagiously ill and selfishly values their own fun over not spreading disease to other people there's nothing preventing them using all shipboard facilities. If you are quarantined and get over it, it will continue to inconvenience you for the entire vacation.

 

No verdict/informational

• MSC has (as their peers have apparently done) enhanced their network detection to thwart travel routers repeating wifi, at least on the Seashore. Expect to purchase wifi on a per device basis. Since this is what MSC intends in selling Wi-Fi I ain't upset, just game recognize game.
• I wish I had purchased the yacht club upgrade counter as they offered a deluxe suite upgrade at $440pp double occupancy. I hesitated as a solo traveler, but given how grim the food was in MDR and that premium drinks plus two device stream wifi was $550+ it would have been worthwhile I feel.
• MSC matches hotel status which is bizarre but a status match is only available once ever and hilton ranks map way higher in msc voyager club so time it right. You have to do this at least two weeks before sailing.

 

Bottom line

Good but not great cruise with MSC. Will be looking elsewhere next time.

We were in the yacht club and it was underwhelming. You saved money by not upgrading 

We just got off Seashore. We were in yacht club. The ship had 4,500 people out of 5,500. It was packed. I walked around on sea day and every bar and pool chair was busy. The elevators were a mess. We will not do Seashore again. Way understaffed.

3 hours ago, ptuder said:

Hello, just a few updates since hubby is sleeping off the all you can eat lunch from Hola!😬😜🤣

This is our first 3 day cruise since our very first cruise on the Carnival Fantasy about 20 years ago!  Added this on to our 7 day booking on a whim when we were on Seaview Med cruise in October. 
 

After boarding yesterday when we went to book our Diamond meal reservation we learned that somehow our Diamond status fell off of our reservation. If our check in hadn’t been so speedy I may have noticed it with our key cards being blue instead of black. If this happens to you fix before boarding if possible. Once they reissued keys our wristband will no longer open the cabin. Luckily it’s just the 3 day part of the trip. 

I used the salon for a haircut this morning to use up our OBC for the 3 day portion. Very nice experience. The shampoo and head massage was almost 15 minutes. They take their time and make it very pleasant. I would recommend Marie if anyone is interested. 

 

Hola Tacos was very good for lunch. All you can eat and different levels of salsa provided based on your spice tolerance. Service was super friendly and quick. 

 

YC cabanas are available to all other than 4 for the Royal and Owners suites. We stayed on board today and used one for the afternoon.  

 

First YC cruise where our butler hasn’t offered to escort us to the show. This is perfectly fine with us as I usually felt silly and knew they were already busy enough. Previously they have insisted. They do have designated section blocked for YC. The DIVAS show last night was very good. Tonight is a comedian which we always enjoy. 

While there is an additional floor of rooms on Seashore YC, Top Sail and the restaurant don’t appear bigger. There were short waits for dinner last night and Top Sail was pretty busy with most seats taken. The pool dock is very spacious. 
 

The crew is very busy and they don’t seem to have the level of staffing needed. Only 1 or 2 servers in Top Sail for a sold out YC. They are very friendly and pleasant but so so busy. Not sure if this partially due to the 3 day cruise where folks are trying to cram in as much as possible in a short number of days. Concierge has been so nice and friendly and seems to have learned people’s names within a day. Not sure how you master that skill with the number of people passing by them every week. I have no idea of the YC Director. In past cruises we have found them to be out and about, introducing themselves and checking in with guests. Maybe they are one of the folks who walk by and say hello. We haven’t needed them but noting observations from our longer cruises to a 3 day cruise.
 

Overall having a pleasant time and curious if we will notice a change once we are in the 7 day portion of our trip. 
 

Please update. We were on the previous cruise and staff was short. I talked to the director and he said " it should get better". Not the experience we hoped for.

3 minutes ago, dd likes to cruise said:

We were on the 12/3, 4 night cruise also.  We were not YC.  Seems odd, as there were limes, cherries, and garnishes at every bar I visited.  I have to have limes!  😎. Parking was horrible.  It took us about an hour from when we got in the parking line, until we parked. 😡. Never heard if there was an excuse/reason.  That needs to be addressed with the port I would guess, not really MSC’s fault. Since the last time we parked in that garage, the set up changed. 
 

I heard they had trouble getting people off the earlier cruise and that is why boarding was slow. 
 

I am afraid I do not know what you might be alluding to, about some different types of people on the island. I was at the South beach (I believe that was the name)  lagoon all day and all was good over there. 

I think that is the problem with MSC. Not consistent. Garnishes were non existent in yacht club. That is why you see super good and super bad reviews. Not consistent.

On 12/6/2023 at 4:35 PM, Todd320 said:

If you are parking at terminal 10 could you please give us an update on construction relating to delays, etc .

We arrive at 10 minutes before 11am. The gates were not functional. Line was back to the road turnoff. Took Us 45 minutes to get in the lot. Half of the lot is under construction. I recommend parking off site. At least for the next few months

We were on the same cruise in Yacht Club.  Poor experience.  First day asked for an Old Fashion with Woodford Reserve.  After 10 min. "we do not have that".  Then asked for Makers Mark.  10 min. later same response.  "Well what do you have?"  Crown Royal, sir.  (That is in the way lower package)  Then at dinner.  No wine menu.  They asked my wife what she wanted, she said Pinot Grigio, she got the $10 bottle stuff.  "That is all we have". 

I am convinced they control costs by only serving a certain amount of premium beverages and then they say "we are out" and you have to get the cheap stuff. 

In the Lounge my wife asked for a Pinot Grigio on the last day.  No special brand.  They gave her a sweet Reisling.  I took it up to the bar and said "this is not a Pinot Grigio".  He said "Sorry sir".  Then it turns out he was out of Pinot Grigio and had to leave for 5 minutes to get more.  So he probably just poured "another white" and hoped she did not notice. Either lazy or cost cutting.  NOT what we paid for.  Other people can chime in on their great experiences, but it did not happen on this ship.

We did not see our "Butler" until the night of day 2.  (50% into our cruise) But we did finally get our newspaper on the last day. :>)

Oh, and I did talk to the "Yacht Club Director" the first night.  Useless.  He said "it should get better tomorrow".

Why isn't it good today?  I paid for today!  He had no response.  Then avoided me the rest of the cruise.  I guess asking for a Wine Menu at dinner is too much to ask.

We were very disappointed.  We have over 20 cruises, with 3 on MSC and this was one of our worst cruises.  

And do not get me started on the elevators.  Nothing better than pushing the elevator button and have it say "error, not available".  And then going to the other bank and getting the same message.

I think the people are good, but the management is cheap and not customer oriented.  I back up everything you said on your original post.  

We boarded today with no problems. Arrived at 11 and we're in our room within 20 minutes. The traffic through town was not bad at that time.

We are at the Doubletree Montreal today. They are saying the roads to the port will be open

 Especially after 11am. So maybe that is why all of our boarding times were pushed later

20 minutes?

Wow. My medallion is better than yours. Ha. Not sure if this is FOMO or virtue signaling....

Enjoying your report. We board in Montreal on Sunday.

I have found that the drink package used to be set as a % of the fare.  We went on a HAL Mexico cruise with friends.  We had inside and they had balcony.  Adding the drink package was $30 a day for us but $34 a day for them.  (this was years ago)  We figured it was because of the cabins.  I think HIA does the same thing.  Our friend was mad because she felt like she was being penalized for getting the balcony on the extras.