Petronillus

20 hours ago, RuthC said:

That's good to hear. However, I am willing to bet that the revamped Billboard Onboard is still doing only sets, with breaks the length of sets in Rolling Stone Rock Room, and that those sets are mainly comprised of songs approved by Seattle. 
That's still not a Piano Bar. 

I would love for HAL to return to those intimate rooms of yore, where the musician took his cues from the passengers who were there all night, every night. 

 

On our most recent cruise, 28 days on the Westerdam, I wasn't every night for every set but I certainly did become one of the regulars.

There is no "Music Walk" per se on Westerdam, and so Billboard Onboard and Rolling Stone are not in direct competition as on the pinnacle class ships. Our pianist at Billboard Onboard (BO???) was the marvelous Krista Meadows. She played three sets per night. The first two were programmed (a cycle of music of the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s, Beatles, Country & Western, British Invasion, etc.) but it seemed that Krista herself selected the pieces and the order in which she played them.

The third set was all requests. Right after the second set Krista distributed request slips and golf pencils, which she collected and formed a playlist out of on the spot. (Amazingly, Krista did not take the time between sets for any me-time; I found her diligence edifying.) Pieces she was unfamiliar with or she felt were not yet ready for prime time she would take back and prepare in anticipation of the next day's requests. I blithely kept requesting MacArthur Park not appreciating how difficult a piece it is. She didn't disappoint (although it took several days of work before she was satisfied with her arrangement). 

I can only hope that Krista sets the HAL standard for the new one-piano format at Billboard Onboard.

On 4/11/2024 at 4:15 PM, mcrcruiser said:

One thing that HAL could do as it was very popular in days gone by are the Hirse Racing , People actually win a oprize for the best costumed wooden horse . They did these races on the main stage & got good attendances 

To each his/her own.

On 4/9/2024 at 10:45 AM, chengkp75 said:

Yes, it is a question of "law or not law".  Your state has a law about getting a doctor's letter for a handicap placard.  That is the law.  The law that governs service animals, the ADA, a federal law, specifically states that establishment owners can only ask two questions regarding service dogs;  one, "is that a service animal", and two "what service is the dog trained to provide for the owner".  That's it.  That is the law, and asking any other questions is against the law.  Now, SCOTUS has ruled, in Spector v NCL, that foreign flag cruise ships do not fall entirely under the ADA.  Specifically, the cruise ship's "internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA.  So, while the ADA requires the cruise line to have accessible cabins, and to not charge more for accessible cabins, the policy of requiring documentation to obtain an accessible cabin is up to the cruise line.  Their determination as to whether or not to allow you to book an accessible cabin (their internal policy) is different than their ability to not allow you onboard due to your disability (ADA requirement).  Asking whether or not a person needs a service animal onboard is to question and possibly deny that person accommodation on the ship (illegal under the ADA, and not an "internal policy")

14 hours ago, Kay S said:

For my friend who asks about the ADA and cruise ships, I refer you to this post which I have gone back to find for you.  (Emphasis is mine.)  So as I see it, the answer is not strictly yes or strictly no but it "depends" on whether the issue is the ship's "internal policies and procedures" or not.

 

Thanks you chenkpg75 for the clear explanation.

In further defense of "It depends . . ."

The Spector case is an interesting and relevant precedent, but it does not settle the issue of whether foreign-flag vessels are subject to the Americans With Disabilities Act with respect to service animals.

First, the Spector decision was a 6-3 opinion with a confusing welter of splintered plurality opinions and a characteristically penetrating dissent from Justice Scalia that the Chief Justice and Justice O'Connor joined and Justice Thomas joined in part.

Second, the case presented the questions of whether, how, and to what degree do the barrier-removal and structural accessibility requirements of the ADA apply to foreign-flag vessels.

Third, the bottom line (which is kind of thin and wavering, given the splintered rationales of 5/6 justices and the solid dissent of 3/4 justices) is (1) that the ADA applies to foreign-flag vessels while operating in U.S. territorial waters and (2) that the ADA does not address the "internal order" of a foreign-flag vessel (i.e., the vessel's operational policies, procedures, and practices) except to the extent the internal order impinges directly upon the health and welfare of Americans while in US territorial waters.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) that under Spector the ADA requirements concerning service animals are also covered, it is conceivable that a cruise line could require that once the ship has entered into international waters (and the casino is opened!), all service animals be confined to quarters or kenneled (if kennels there be) at the passenger's expense. It would also be permissible that once the ship is in international waters those claiming to need a service animal could be required to prove their bona fides with evidence satisfactory to the captain or her/his designated officer.

The cruise lines should not claim, "Our hands are tied by Spector." 

Given Justice Scalia's dissent, who knows if today's US Supreme Court would be inclined to extend Spector to service animals?

5 minutes ago, highscar said:

If my cat was allowed I would be the one wearing the support vest.  I support him grooming, feeding, stroking, etc etc etc.  

I've heard that dogs have owners and cats have staffs.

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The cruise lines are well aware of the ADA requirements.  They are also well aware of the bad PR they can get from disallowing someone who claims to have a service animal that really isn't.

Is it lawful for the United States to claim jurisdiction over a foreign-flagged ship? How is it that HAL, whose ships are flagged in the Netherlands, must comply with the ADA (AMERICANS with Disabilities Act)? Is this a point of admiralty law?

Is it that Holland America Line and its parent, Carnival Cruise Lines, are headquartered in the US and that CCL is listed on the NYSE?

11 hours ago, Nang said:

I thought I would offer my experience with Scenic ...

 

We did Amsterdam-Budapest in 2015. It was mostly a great experience with a few, not insignificant issues for me (but not my DW).

 

Scenic restock their drinks only in Nuremburg, 9 days from Amsterdam. When we boarded in Amsterdam they were out of Stella, 2 days later no Heineken, one day later my next beer of choice was done. Given beer is a big part of my holiday experience I was less than impressed.

Each afternoon everybody meets for pre-dinner drinks, a briefing for the next day and sometimes for some entertainment. Unsurprisingly most people want a drink or two. The wait was AT LEAST 20 minutes, all due to a severe lack of wait and bar staff. They tried hard but were very much overwhelmed. OK, so just walk up to the bar. Nope, told only service is via one of the wait staff (no great surprise there given the situation). After the daily briefing we are invited to move to the dining room for dinner. Exactly the same situation repeated itself regarding drinks. This occurred every day. 

 

Entertainment was severely lacking compared to an ocean cruise. Some late afternoons an act would board the ship and perform, often with a focus on local culture/traditional performances. There were quite good, but short. During and after dinner is was a solo piano player/singer who played chamber/elevator music, every night, except on the rare occasion we attended an off ship, high quality night of entertainment.

 

The above negatives were much outweighed by the quality of the itinerary/destinations, the ship itself and the food. Staff were efficient and polite, but not in the same league as HAL's friendly staff in enhancing my holiday.

HAL ocean cruises and Scenic river cruising are different products, but both have delivered me a pleasurable experience with Scenic a mix of high highs and disappointing lows.

Thanks for providing a balancing viewpoint. It reaffirms the old adage, that if sounds too good to be true, it likely isn't. I'm the guy who likens HAL to a good solid Buick. What you've described makes me think more of a Cadillac than a Beemer or a Merc.

2 hours ago, colin v said:

This reminds me of questions asked on an airline loyalty thread about non status friends using a status members perks. Then, as weeks go by, the original person is complaining about all of the non status folks in front of them or the long line to access the lounge.  If everyone with a status/priority brings a friend (or two), eventually it waters down the perks you have earned/paid for.

As W. S. Gilbert was known to say, "If everybody's somebody then nobody's anybody."

4 hours ago, McDeb2119 said:

I’ve only been on one river cruise with Avalon. However, before choosing I did a ton of research. Like you, I wanted a Buick. Not a Focus or a BMW. I also wanted something a little more active as it was for

my 50th birthday and we had a small group ranging in ages from 40-70. Avalon fit the bill and so did AMA so it came down to itinerary as all the ships were very similar. Although now I might consider AMA for their newish ship the AMA Maga.  Drinks are included with lunch and dinner. There are many different tours offered and most are included. 2 tours per day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon.  My group and I would go to the lounge for a nightcap and then off to bed as the breakfast was not to be missed before the morning tour.  We have another planned for 2025 and can’t wait.  

Assuming that's a photo of you under your moniker, I surmise that your 50th birthday was 15-20 years in the future when you did the Avalon cruise. 

I'd appreciate it if you cleared a point of confusion for me (another one!): if you're using the same Buick standard I do, did Avalon exceed it? If so, was it closer to the BMW or the Buick? Do you think your experience with Avalon matched OP's with Scenic, as more fully amplified in her/his later posts?

OP had me hooked at complimentary Pringles.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate that my personal frame of reference and standard of comparison (namely, David Dunbar Buick's eponymous automobile) might not work outside the US market. The standard you've described sounds higher than a Cadillac (top of the General Motors lines) and more like a Mercedes Maybach, which I can't afford and, blessedly, don't aspire to.

I haven't started checking prices, but I'm bracing for "Too rich for my blood . . ." But for me it's the same for Neptune suites.

This is such a lovely thread! A lot is going on below the surface, and the exchanges are remarkably tender.

DW & I have yet to do a river cruise, but it languishes somewhere on our to-do list. I had never before heard of Scenic, but based on this thread I will look at it closely. 

I have a standard of comparison that I'm not sure will translate effectively to Australia. I consider HAL to be a good solid Buick. It's not a Cadillac, much less a Lexus or BMW. But we are perfectly -- and I mean perfectly -- satisfied with a Buick. By that standard where does Scenic rank?

Thanks to all!

On 3/11/2024 at 3:00 PM, crystalspin said:

There are no benefits to Signature Suites except square footage. If bought at a published rate, you would get double Mariner Points but not with an upsell/upgrade. 

I would add that you will be charged the usual daily pp crew appreciation gratuities applicable to suites.

12 hours ago, TRLD said:

The norm is rapidly becoming to treat the person on the other end of the call the same as if they were there in the same room and having a conversation.

The norms are certainly in flux, and for many of us -- generally, the older end of the spectrum -- the need to adjust is not evident and the actual adjustment is irksome.

A friend shared with me that he was trying to talk with his teenage (late teens) son while the son was conducting a separate conversation with his friend via text. My friend objected to his son's rudeness and insisted that he stop texting while they talked. The son acceded to his father's request. Sometime afterward, he took my friend aside and explained, calmly and respectfully, that under the new social patterns, his father was the rude one, because demanding his son's full and undivided attention was selfish: his father was not respecting his son's manifest ability to multi-task.

I was flabbergasted.

47 minutes ago, coolbluegreenseas said:

Ah, exactly why I chose the Caribbean for our December cruise: we are only getting off once. I want to enjoy the ship while everyone else is gone. For hubby and I, this is pretty much a cruise to nowhere. Also, we have seen enough of the Caribbean to know we have seen enough of the Caribbean.

Wow, I feel like I've melded minds with this person. Further thoughts:

1. I've found that after maybe 5 Caribbean islands, they all sort of blend together. They seem to have similar histories and similar sights to see. Martinique stands out only because our guide was so proud that Martinique is an integral part of France, with its own deputies representing it in the French National Assembly, and so proud to point out how nicely paved their roads are.

2. I will always get off at Half Moon Cay for the sting ray attraction. The folks manning the pen are congenial and the animals are remarkably beautiful, peaceful, and patient.

Otherwise, I agree. The best thing is to stay on board, bask at poolside, and enjoy the other amenities.

22 minutes ago, Fred321 said:

On this year's Grand Australia/New Zealand they have a trio (piano, cello and Violin) that are outstanding. They do 3 shows a day using programs that they put together which are much better than the limited offerings that Lincoln Center had available. Their skill level is very high. All in all at least these 3 are an improvement from the Lincoln Center program. 

My understanding is that on the longer itineraries or in certain locales they are bringing back classical offerings. Just not Lincoln Center branded.

This is the best news I've heard on this front since they pulled the plug on LCS. When we did our Norway cruise last July aboard Rotterdam the LCS signage was still on display, rubbing salt into the wound.

The notion of a high-caliber piano/cello/violin trio having their own free rein over a classical, semi-classical, and fusion repertoire is attractive.

46 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 
 

I gave him the Stink Eye after about 4 minutes and he lowered the volume but continued the call.

My solution is passive-aggressive. You put down whatever it is you're reading, and then lean over to show that you're actively listening. If that doesn't work, start interjecting your own comments since the offender has plainly turned a private conversation into an open discussion.

52 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Maybe there were some people that didn’t like it, but the piano lounge was always packed.  Not so with just one performer.

It's probably another case of YMMV, but our experience in February aboard Westerdam was just the opposite. The incomparable Krista Meadows invariably put on a high-caliber show with engaging performances, all by her lonesome self. I started a separate thread shortly after to register my approval. 

Perhaps Krista is indeed incomparable, and others just can't match the secret sauce that makes her special. I hope for HAL's sake, and ours, that's not the case.

On 3/23/2024 at 1:44 PM, jeh10641 said:

Whatever the entertainment options are on a cruise ship, attending them is optional for the passengers. How many of us have created music playlists for our electronic devices (I have several depending on my mood; now I am listening to a You Tube Hawaiian music package that i heard many times)? How many times have you viewed a favorite Broadway show? On my recent Royal cruise, we went to see We Will Rock You (for the first time for us) and there was audience participation for many of the songs. Obviously, many attendees had seen this show many times. How many sporting events have you recorded that you want to watch again (and again and again)? I have several. Repetition is NOT a bad thing if you enjoyed what you saw.

 

Jim

Hear, hear!

I wonder how many people in the 19th century used to say, "Oh no! Not Beethoven's 9th again!"

I'm not saying future generations will remember the Step One Dance Company routines like we revere the Beethoven symphonies. But I do think that their four programs should be viewed and enjoyed as choreographed artworks akin to ballet. 

On our recent 28-day cruise aboard Westerdam, the Step One dancers performed each of their four programs twice. For us it was our first time with the one called Move. I was astounded at how well the choreography, staging, and effects adapted to suit Westerdam's proscenium stage. We were particularly graced with three top-notch couples who were equally balanced in their virtuosity. That's not always been the case.

It SODC has gone the way of LCS, I need to brace myself for another major disappointment.

BTW, I am of a wholly different opinion w/r/t BBC Earth. If I never have to see those infernal snakes again, I'll count myself lucky.

I usually order a double, so the limit on my signature package really comes to 7½ drinks. I've yet to bump into the limit. What a temperant boy am I!

I suspect that what you've just detailed explains why my fellow passenger regretted not having booked 3 nights.

2 hours ago, HermmyGranger said:

Honestly, if it comes out close, it's more convenient to not have all the individual charges on the statement.

DW & I drink enough to at least break even on the beverage package. For me the main thing is feeling carefree. Not for nothing was my Dad born and raised in Scotland.

On our most recent cruise one of my fellow pax said that if he had it to do over he would have booked one of the cruisetours including 3 days in Denali. I didn't press him for details but he said that 2 days just wasn't a long enough time. It made enough of an impression on me that I resolved to choose an itinerary giving us 3 days (when the time came).

2 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

Club Orange is primarily a private dining experience.

I hope I'm not quibbling but my primary incentive to purchase the Club Orange option is that at the time of booking, with Club Orange you select the lowest-cost cabin available in your category (verandah, ocean view, etc.) and then upgrade to any other available cabin in the same category at no additional charge (i.e., other than the fare for the initial choice and the extra cost of Club Orange).

For DW & me, all the other CO perqs are gravy.

We're still basking in the afterglow of 28 days ohboard the Westerdam cruising Asia-Pacific. HIA gave us the signature package, and I had my set of drink preferences (a rather small number and narrow range). I never once found, regardless of venue, that my charges varied. On those rare occasions when I ordered something above the signature-package limit, the server always told me what the upcharge would be.

As of last month Chivas Regal was available at most bars onboard and did not exceed the $11 signature package limit. I think that all the single malts were above our pay grade. At home my favorite tipple is Ardbeg Uigeadail, but on board high-end blends are satisfactory. 

I wasn't on the lookout for single malts but IIRC the stop shelf had Glenfiddich, Glenmorangie, and the like.

Last month, on Westerdam, we had the Signature package and were barely grazed by the recently increased prices. My bloody Marys were at or below the cutoff, and same for my Bombay Sapphires. Our Chivas Regals were also within the limit. For a couple of days the Crow's Nest was out of Chivas; when we switched to Johnny Walker Black, the upcharge was something like $0.59.