Ozjohnno

Ozjohnno, I know you and I have agreed to disagree on several different subjects. I am interested to hear why tipping is not part of the Aussie experience. DW and I will be in your country soon and I expect to tip for good service just as I would in the US. Please tell me why I should not pull out my wallet or add something on the credit card slip.

Seems to me to be cheap.

This subject always opens up a bag of worms when mentioned on this site and many others but as you requested an answer I'll try to give you one.

Tipping in Australia is not generally done because unlike some Americans our workers receive good wages that they can live on without the addition of a tip. As an example the lowest hourly rate down here for an unqualified worker is $16.00 an hour for a 38 hour week - penalty rates apply for additional hours worked over the 38. Thus it has not been in our culture to expect "extra" for doing their job. It's probably best described as a cultural thing. When you visit you will not be expected to tip for any service but no sane person is going to turn you down if you wish to. As I said to another poster some time back one of the biggest differences you will encounter is the almost total lack of beggars on our streets. When we travel we would prefer not to tip but if it is the custom then we do. When we travel to Europe we prefer the trip to be all-inclusive with our tipping already looked after for us.

The big thing is tipping. Apparently it's not done much in Australia and the American custom of tipping waiters and stewards (and lots of other service providers) grates with many Australians. There are many threads throughout this board about how this ruins their cruise experience, starts things off on the wrong foot -- followed by advice to go to the customer service desk and revoke all service charges. That of course leaves the cruise workers without a major portion of their income, so some cruise lines now have different rules for customers from different countries. When service charges are bundled into the Australian fares, the discussion then becomes a complaint that fares for Australians are so much higher than for North Americans.

 

Every review (no matter where the person lives) that starts off with an initial disappointment (even something the cruise line can't control) is almost sure to be biased toward every little nitpicky complaint, rather than a balanced overview of the good and bad on that cruise.

Thank you for that outlook. As an Australian, and I certainly don't speak for all Australians, I prefer my holidays to be all-inclusive. You are correct that tipping is not part of the Australian lifestyle and there are many reasons why. I don't like surprises at the end of a trip that makes me have to put my hand in my pocket. I prefer to pay upfront knowing that except for our private expenses we have paid for our holiday/cruise entirely. No gratuities at the end and no "optional extra" tours to be paid for. That way we have no surprises.

I would argue though that river cruise prices for Australians who choose an all-inclusive company are NOT more expensive than what an American would pay. I chose the American company Tauck when we cruised in 2011 and far from being more expensive it was because of the strength of the Aussie dollar actually cheaper than an American would have paid. I just did a check based on today's rates and again it is cheaper for an Australian to book Tauck than an American.

I still encourage future travellers to use a spreadsheet to help you in your decision making. Include every cost as laid out by the river cruise companies and then calculate a per diem cost and as I found out there is little differences in the final cost between most of the river cruise lines. I realise there is more than "price" when it comes to choosing a river cruise but my little exercise eliminates those thoughts that all-inclusive cruising is much more expensive than pay as you go lines.

Don't know OP at all, but on various CC boards Australians have very different perceptions of cruising than Americans.

Please amplify. As an Australian I'm curious to know what you think our different perceptions are?

I'm not sure what APT stands for.

Thank you for adding your experiences. It is helpful in understanding the aspects of the trip that did not meet your expectations.

APT = Australian Pacific Tours - an Australian Tour company that broke into the European River Cruise market a few years back when it invested in AMAWaterways. As I've never cruised with them I can't tell you any differences Australians get over AMA clients when they cruise, if any.

Last September 17th I got to take my wife to the most elegant evening she's ever had for her birthday (Yes I know it was a fluke) - Dinner and a concert in Vienna. We listened to beautiful music, watched some superb ballet and were entertained by a first class tenor and soprano. All that with an amazing 5 course meal. The best part was that it was not an "optional extra" it was all part of the Tauck package. Without a shadow of doubt it was the "classical highlight" of our cruise.

Tauck also have bikes on board.

Quite right. The new changes to the ships are not applicable to Russia or France and I guess that the government of Russia controls what can be served on any ship so not totally in the control of any cruise line. The all inclusiveness is applicable to France. What is it you feel is 'smoke & mirrors'?

It would take half a page to explain all the smoke and mirrors but may I suggest you read the Scenic "fine print". For example in their latest "Scenic News" Winter 2012 edition the pages are dotted with * and ^ highlighting what is included and where. Nor every type of drink is complimentary. The butler service is incremented on what cabin you select. The new River Cafe and Table La Rive are not included on French cruises to name just some of what I consider Smoke and Mirrors.

I'm not saying Scenic is doing anything wrong. It's just a marketing ploy like Vikings 2 for 1 deals but like all things it pays to read carefully and if a Scenic Rep comes to your area ask them questions. You would never know from their fine brochures that Russia is excluded until you find a * or ^ and follow the clues.

I found that with AMA last year. I am trying Scenic this year who provide wine, beer, soda for dinner and lunch and in 2013 it will be all day, so no unexpected bar bill at the end of the cruise.

Not if you're going to Russia. None of Scenic's new all-inclusive features apply to their Russian Cruises and a number of them don't apply to their French cruises either AND there are a number of exclusions on their European cruises. After many questions as someone said to their representative at a presentation here - "There's a lot of smoke and mirrors with Scenics 2013 cruises."

Top shelf drinks was never in the plan as far as I know, but who knows.

 

Ships will be upgraded if the markets they are in work out well in the future. Just think of them money Scenic is forking out for all this remodeling and the new amenities. I hope there aren't massive price hikes!

I'm sure everyone understands your support of Scenic but I contend that if "top shelf spirits" were never in the mix then that should have been clearly stated in the beginning along with all I stated above not after they were quizzed at presentations. I realise Cavet Emptor prevails no matter what company you choose but you have to understand that Scenic are still fighting off the very extensive criticism they encountered from their own countrymen when they started their European programme with less than stellar results a few years ago.

As I said in an earlier post Scenic has taken up a very extensive marketing campaign in Australia including a Road Show Australia wide, sponsorship of our premier travel programme "Getaway" and a very serious mailing programme both email and slow mail. This unfortunately for them has drawn some extreme scrutiny of their upgraded all-inclusive luxury items for the 2013 cruise season. Maybe it's because we Aussies fall, in the majority, into the "I find that hard to believe category" they have been extensively quizzed on the all-inclusive items during their road show presentations. This has caused them to alter some of their previous statements and include a number of "* and ^" in their latest Scenic Club News 2012 Winter edition brochure that just arrived in the mail.

Whilst it is true that the offerings as previously stated above still exist there are now quite a few conditions attached.

The complimentary drinks is included as stated all day BUT there are conditions. It does not include top shelf spirits, French Champagne or many selected wines AND it is not available on Russian Cruises (in fact none of their new upgrades are available on their Russian Cruises).

Their advertised new Restaurant Table La Rive is now only for Danube deck clients and is not available on the French cruises nor is the River Cafe which advertises all day grazing.

Their new Sun Lounge technology for their balconies is not available on their French cruises as the Scenic Emerald in France will not be upgraded to Scenic Crystal standard.

I can understand why they have excluded Russia ( they have no spaceships over there) but I'm disappointed that most of the new features are not available for those of us who were contemplating a cruise through southern France.

Lyn, For 2013 they have added quite a bit to their list including complimentary drinks all day and night and a butler service to all on board, a new privacy balcony and they've also added a new all day/night River Cafe for snacking plus a new Chef's Restaurant. That's on top all what all Scenic customers already receive. They have been bombarding me with email's, brochures and they've got a trade show touring all of Australia. They appear to be going flat out to try and get the up-market client down here.

Rod

Tauck and Ama are not consistent. They can be good or bad. I've experienced both. Scenic is always good.

Can you please point me to the reviews that show Tauck is bad because I can certainly show you those about Scenic. I have never read a "bad" review about Tauck and before our holiday last September we looked extensively for their reviews. Scenic have started a very big marketing campaign here in Australia for their 2013 cruise itineraries highlighting their new "all-inclusive" items. Only time will tell how well they received by future customers.

From the latest email I received from Scenic today they give this information for river cruisers on their boats for 2013.

Unlimited complimentary beverages are always available throughout the ship including regional wines, boutique beers, spirits, cocktails, bottled water and espresso coffee. You will also enjoy our relaxing new River Café a open for all day grazing, as well as enjoying sumptuous first-class cuisine in our incredible on board restaurants. With all-inclusive dining, beverages and of course our unforgettable on shore experiences, you really will have nothing more to pay with us!

This is a big step forward in being "all-inclusive" as the best that Tauck can offer at present is free non-alcoholic drinks 24 hrs and free beer and wines at dinner and lunch. From reading the Scenic information it appears that all alcoholic drinks are complimentary all day and night. That is an amazing offer from Scenic and I'll now wait and see how that effects their per diem costs compared to 2011 when we did our costings for our holidays.

I'm an Australian and a Tauck fan. We cruised last September and considered Scenic, APT (who are partners with AMA) and Tauck. I recently compared prices to see if there has been any changes and once again found that using the current rate for the Aussie dollar that Tauck compares most favourably with the other two in cost. APT and Scenic both claim to be all-inclusive but APT still add port charges and neither Scenic nor APT provide free soft drinks all day and night.

It is true that Scenic's big selling point is their outside balconies and at present they are offering we Aussies free air if we book a year or so in advance. BUT as was pointed out by travel articles down here they are also still countering noise and vibration complaints in rear cabins from recent Australian cruisers and complaints that they had to change boats mid-cruise whilst other lines sailed past them. They were basically annoyed that "nothing had seem to change " from a couple of years back.

Our next cruise will not be until the northern summer of 2014 (our 40th Anniversary) and we've chosen France and unless something leaps up and grabs us we'll be cruising with Tauck again. They were just that good.

I would rather read from Viking how it came about that their ships were effected and other cruise company's weren't. Deeper drafts?

This probably has to be the most often asked question on what is also probably the most subjective area of river cruising. Reading many threads you'll see those that have their favourites and those that have had good and bad experiences. In our case I put together an extensive spread sheet for the Amsterdam-Budapest cruise and found that the itineraries were not the same, the excursions offered were not the same, some had options and some didn't, some were all inclusive and some weren't and in the end it boiled down to what I wanted to see, what my budget was and how much per day was I going to spend.

In the end we chose Tauck because it not only met all the things we wanted it was also cheaper per day than all but 2 other lines. I have to add that the strength of the Aussie dollar also helped. I'm sure though that whatever itinerary and cruise company you choose you'll have made the right choice for you.

Cormike1 I appreciate your candor. We're booked for next September and as we live in the topics down here I can honestly say I haven't worn a suit, tie or sports coat for over 25 years. I even had to rent a suit for my son's wedding. I wouldn't have booked a river cruise if I thought I would be judged by what I'm wearing. I'll roll up for the Captains dinner in a pair of slacks and shirt and I don't care if I'm damned by the fashion fanatics.