SantaFeFan

41 minutes ago, Broadside said:

It is noted that the Casualistionists are once again asserting their non- evidenced propaganda.

Fortunately Princess Cruise Lines have ignored them and instead listened and responded to the most influential and preferential sections of their customer base by continuing to promote Formal Nights and expanding the 'dress to impress' events.

 

 

I think we are being pranked! This comment has to be satirical! LOL!!

32 minutes ago, Rick&Jeannie said:

Oh My Gosh!!  Can't we just let this one die?  We're beating a dead horse here...as is always the case when somebody throws this question out there.  🙄

It's very easy to let a a thread like this die: DON"T READ IT!!

They have my vote as the poster family for 'Sense of Entitlement'. 

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Thank you. That is my understanding as well. 

The discretionary tips do not make up the "bulk" of their salary.

 

You might want to read these articles:

https://www.cruisehive.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/64121

https://highseascruising.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/

How Much do Cruise Ship Cabin Stewards Make?

Cabin stewards are among the lowest-paid workers on a cruise ship.

Cabin stewards have a base salary of $10,800 but can make as high as $24,000 with tips.

How much do cruise ship waiters make?

Cruise ship waiter salaries vary from $1,200 per month for a junior waiter to $5,000 per month for the head waiter on an ultra-luxury cruise ship. These salaries generally include gratuities which typically make up 65% of their salary and are collected and shared automatically.

If people choose to tip extra in cash on top of the standard gratuities, then waiters can make more money.

The hours for a cruise ship waiter or waitress can be very long, as they often have to serve breakfast, lunch and dinner with little time off in between.

6 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

I watch all of the shows on cruise ships I can find on History Channel, Science Channel, etc. - literally dozens over the years. Most of them show a "week in the life of" a specific ship. Those that did mention crew quarters have shown small two-person crew cabins, some with bunk type beds and some with side by side beds. Several YouTube videos posted by crew members also showed two person cabins in similar configurations. None shown were four person cabins. Not sure if that is the standard, but in those cases that is what was shown. Also, none had windows. 

On our Alaska cruise on Grand Princess in 2017 I purchased the special "behind the scenes" tour. As well as visits to the bridge, galley, store rooms, laundry, engine control room, theater backstage, infirmary, and fore section with the anchor chains and winches, we also toured I-95, the central corridor that runs the length of the ship for crew to move around quickly. Off this corridor was the crew area. We visited the crew galley and lounge, and walked down the crew quarter aisles, where we were asked to move quietly so not to disturb sleeping crew.

While we never saw inside any of the crew cabins, we were told that two people shared these cabins. 

On 1/4/2023 at 3:48 AM, wowzz said:

That is just incorrect. The vast majority of the customer facing crew do not get tipped. Those waiters working in the buffet for example. The average waiter will never earn enough money from a few tips here and there to provide him with a living wage.

Plus if course,  if what you say is true,  when a ship has a large percentage of European passengers on board,  during the summer season in the Med for example, the crew, according to your theory, would be working for nothing,  given European attitudes to tipping.

P&O UK and Aus have done away with autotips, and removed the tipping culture prevalent on other lines, so all this flag of convenience nonsense is irrelevant.

 

I hate to burst your fantasy bubble, but you are so wrong on so many things with that statement. 

You said "The vast majority of the customer facing crew do not get tipped. Those waiters working in the buffet for example."

Wrong! Those waiters working in the buffet can be seen later working the MDR, and vice-a-versa. Tomorrow they may be working the poolside grill, or the International Cafe. They are all from the same staffing pool and will work a variety of venues, all with a percentage of the gratuities. Same with room attendants, who share their gratuities with the support staff that makes their jobs easier, such as the laundry workers. Room attendants can be seen cleaning up public areas when they are not cleaning staterooms. 

The crew all work for a base salary. It isn't a high salary, but it is a guaranteed salary. They also get room and board as part of their salary package. This amount is not enough to live on, however - by OUR standards.

Note that not all of the crew are included in the base salary/gratuities programs. Typically only those working in the "hotel" side of the ship are included in this program. Officers, entertainers, accredited mechanics, and other higher level staff sign a contract at a full salary with no part of the gratuity programs, much like on a typical land based company. 

The gratuities that responsible passenger pay supplement that base salary for hotel staff, increasing the final income to acceptable levels. Without the gratuities, the crew will at least get the base salary, so they are not, as you claim, "working for nothing". 

Most cruise lines that are based in Europe, such as P&O and MSC (for European cruises only), roll the gratuities into the base fare for exactly the reason you mentioned - Europeans don't tip well, and the staff gets stiffed. Many US based cruise lines do the same when home porting in Europe, again because too many Europeans refuse to tip and the hotel staff suffers.

In May 2019 P&O did away with gratuities (SOURCE: https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/PO-Cruises-to-end-gratuities-in-2019) because too many of the locals removed them, so people did not want to work on their ships because of the lost wages they suffered. To attract employees, P&O had to switch or they would not be able to find enough people to run their ships. It's simple economics. 

14 minutes ago, memoak said:

Can’t imagine not having WiFi on a cruise. Especially on longer cruises with 5-6 sea days in a row

Some of us don't need Wi-Fi to make a cruise enjoyable. We are fully capable of tuning out and enjoying the cruise itself. We typically leave our phones in the safe. With the new medallion features, we will have to change our habits or do without the benefits which need the phone to enjoy.

2 hours ago, OccasionalSanta said:

And many of those people are going to be in front of you in line and slow you down as well

I have read that they would be in a different line, and those with their medallions already would not be behind them. Can anyone confirm?

20 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

We checked in and they handed the Medallion to us.  Extra time was insignificant.  People are going to be in a line either way.  I'm not anticipating any real delays in the check in process in the future.  

I hope you are correct. I haven't been through embarkation since before the medallion so admittingly aren't the expert. It just seems that even if it takes one minute to get the medallion in your hands and there are hundreds more people than before needing that service, there has to be a time penalty to the wait times. 

Time will tell. My concerns might end up being one of those infamous "nothingburgers". 🙃

53 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm not sure I follow. Completing the Medallion app speeds up check-in more than having the Medallion in hand.    I prefer to pick up the medallion.  Very little time is added to check-in.   And, that was my preference prior to the new $10 mailing fee. 

That is based on many people who had them mailed already having their device in hand as they check in. If a large number of people now decide to pick them up instead of having them mailed to save $10, then there will be more people in that line to pick them up. More people, more processing time. It's simple physics. 

Fascinating. People spending thousands of dollars on a cruise vacation are willing to endure longer, slower, more crowded lines just to save $10 shipping cost for the medallions. 😵

1 hour ago, davekathy said:

Who qualifies for the no charge medallion mailing option, if it's still an option?

I believe it is those who purchase the Plus or Premier packages. 

Those who don't will have to pay $10 to get them mailed. 

14 minutes ago, RNRcruisers said:

 

Agree. I sometimes think the non-formal-dressers want everyone to think that is the norm so it BECOMES the norm 😝. I see plenty of people dressed up on formal nights, maybe not too many in tuxes and formal gowns but lots of sparkly dresses and men in suits. 

 

That is where you and I are different. I don't spend my time in the MDR monitoring what people are wearing. I have no idea how many people are wearing what. I just don't care. It's not my business. 

4 hours ago, shamrockace said:

If you don’t eat yer meat, you can’t have any pudding!  
 

not everyone will get this……l

Got it! One of my favorites. 

Copied from another thread.

5 minutes ago, milolii said:

I did find this the other day. It appears to state that prepayment is non refundable  unless it is part of a package and then subjected to the usual refund policies.

It is refundable. If it wasn't, we would have had dozens of threads complaining about it by now. 

36 minutes ago, Wishing on a star said:

 

They just never do anything like they used to.  You know, back when we all walked to school every day, five miles each way, in the snow!

 

You had it easy. We had to walk five miles each way in the snow and UPHILL both ways!

1 hour ago, Cruise Raider said:

I’ve been cruising with Princess since the 1990’s in very cabin type they offer.  While I must admit that traveling in a suite did provide a much nicer cabin and some additional perks, I have rarely been treated by the staff / crew differently than while cruising in an inside cabin.  The biggest perk for me while cruising in a suite cabin or club class is access to a table for dining without making a reservation.  If I pay more for that privilege, I would expect to receive it, just as flying first class or the VIP seating at a concert.  If the VIP seats at a concert are not taken at the start of a concert, they generally don’t allow someone with general admission tickets to jump over the rope and use those seats.  
When I upgrade to the premier package, I drink nicer wines.  I will also not have a problem with taking advantage of reserved seating if I’ve paid for that benefit.  I really don’t see that as classism.  

The very fact that you can buy your way to the front of the line is classism. On airplanes, they even call it "First Class". This rush by cruise lines to give preferential treatment to people who can afford it is an unfortunate trend. In the past, paying more got a person a better cabin, but all other aspects of the cruise was equal. Now, dedicated spaces and restaurants, priority seating in the theater, being moved to the front of the line for boarding and embarkation, has sprouted like weeds. Every year the few gain more amenities and benefits, while the average passenger sees more and more cutbacks and eliminations of what they enjoyed in the past. 

And of course, those of you who can easily afford it will defend this new trend and comment on how the rest of us should accept it. That in itself is a form of classism. 

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

Thanks.  I did mean to add a sentence that notwithstanding the aforementioned, there are at least some cases where guests without the required CC Member Level have been able to book dining reservations in ahead of their FP Date.

Thanks. I don't know if I was lucky or this is the new normal, but I am happy it happened. Made booking dining times so easy with the app. 

35 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

 

And I disagree.  I think it is fair if the eligible folks are informed that their seats are held up to X time on the clock and after that, no guarantees.  The shows are not all that long for one thing.  IMO, it is similar to not holding a dining res forever for a no-show.  You get 10 mins and that's it.  I'd say 5 mins after show begins max (if not right at show time).  Option:  There is usually a CD intro piece and then the main performer.  I'd go with keep seats until CD spiel is over.  I'd even release SOME of the seats early and just keep a few back for late arrivals.  

 

I think folks should have the courtesy to show up on time as it is disruptive to the entertainers and some audience members in the vicinity.

 

another option - keep some seats held in the back row for late arrivals.  If late, you don't get the prime seats, or go find something on your own.

 

Based on the direction Princess is taking with their newest class of ships, I'm willing to bet that those seats will remain reserved for Premier package buyers and will never be released to the lower class passengers. It will also include suite passengers as well as one of the privileged groups allowed there. Princess is clearly embracing the class format for it's upcoming ships with their exclusive Reserve Collection and Signature Collection areas and restaurants, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if a prime section of the theater is permanently blocked by railings for the exclusive use by those willing to spend additional money to be treated better than the rest of the passengers. 

Money talks, and under John Padgett's leadership, Princess is apparently listening. 

50 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

The rule (policy) is that if you are Elite or Platinum, you can book in DMW as soon as you have a booking with a deposit applied.  All other guests must wait until they have made Final Payment for their voyages (unless booked in a Suite or Club Class, in which case all they need is Specialty Dining access).

 

As I have mentioned many times to Steelers36s comment above, we board our 2nd Princess cruise on March 12th and we made our dining reservations months ago, both for MDR and specialty. We are not elite or platinum and only last week made our final payment. Yet, we have already made all of our reservations, both dining and excursions. And our traveling companions, also not elite or platinum, have made theirs as well. 

It appears to be a myth that people must have loyalty status to make reservations early. 

25 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

Yes it's important because it's one of so many nickel and dimes charged. By the time you add port fees and taxes, wifi, gratuities, and some people get a beverage package it's more per diem then the cruise fare per diem. It's changed from what has traditionally been a "mostly" inclusive vacation to an a la carte one.  Many of us seniors who have cruised for 50 years see too many changes coming too rapidly at a higher cost, with decreases in services.  Yes inflation has hit but not to the extreme  Princess is going. 

Getting the wifi or beverage packages is optional. These were never included in the base fare on Princess, which is the cruise line we are discussing here. No one has to buy these items, so how can they be counted as "nickel and diming"?

Cruising on Princess has NEVER been inclusive. People always had to pay extra for many things, either al-a-cart or in a package when they became available. You are not convincing me at all with your hyperbole. 

6 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

Not for the production shows we've been to. They've all been jam packed on every cruise.

I'm not cure if reserving seats would make things worse or not, although those people wouldn't have to rush through dinner since they know that a seat would be waiting for them. It wouldn't make it any more crowded unless they reserved seats at both shows for them. 

Another question is whether the seats will remain reserved as the show begins or be released to people not on the package a few minutes before. What I have observed when seats are reserved for the duration is that if they are at the front of the theater, people who those seats are for will know they don't need to hurry and will show up late and disrupt the performance while making their way to their seats.

The only people who win in that situation are the late arriving people whose seats are reserved. The performers and the rest of the audience are negatively affected. 

Hopefully the reserved seats will expire a few minutes before the show starts so the late reserve arrivals won't be motivated to interrupt the show. 

1 minute ago, jlacy1987 said:

I never once asked if I could get out of paying crew appreciation for the two kids. Didn't even occur to me. I am simply trying to figure out why it's not letting me prepay the crew appreciation for them when I should owe it, since we only have Premier Plus for myself and my husband. 

I was making a general comment for anyone interested in this topic. I was not deliberately accusing you of trying to get out of paying, and apologize if my comment was poorly worded and came out that way. 

6 minutes ago, jlacy1987 said:

Trying to determine if I am going to be out of pocket $200+ or not is not "spending way too much mental energy and time on this." I would rather have this mystery solved before I get on board. 

You should plan on being "out of pocket" for the kids as well, regardless of if prepaid or paid on board. Kids, especially toddlers, also require the cabin attendant to deal with any messes they may make. Plus, the gratuities are also for the staff that prepares and serves them food at all the dining venues, and for washing the dirty linens they use. Every person on board should pay gratuities as every one of them will be taken care of by the staff in some way or the other.