BruceMuzz

I'm going to interrupt and disagree with you a bit. While the riverboats are different behind the scenes, the customers are seeking a similar experience. Just like people that cruise the Great Lakes.

 

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No disagreement necessary.

Yes, the passengers on both types of vessels are looking for similar products.

But the operators are looking at two completely different operations.

 

A 1,500 passenger cruise ship cannot possibly make a profit - at any price point.

A 500 passenger river boat can be very successful.

Fair enough. But do you believe there are no luxury cruise lines that make a profit?

 

Having managed ships for the luxury lines for many years, I do not BELIEVE they are losing money.

I KNOW they are losing money.

I still get back to my original point - that it's hard to believe that no luxury cruise line is profitable.

 

Same for river cruises. They obviously have passenger capacity less than 2000. It's hard to believe that none of them are profitable.

 

River boats are not cruise ships. They operate under different legal conventions, different safety rules, different unions, and have far lower operating costs than ocean going vessels.

So Crystal and Silversea and other luxury cruise lines do not make a profit? How do they stay in business?

 

Crystal Cruises is owned by NYK (Nippon Yusen Kaisha), one of the largest and most profitable cargo shipping companies in the world. Crystal is an expensive hobby for the owners.

 

Silversea is owned by a very wealthy Italian Family that wants to have the best cruise line in the world and is willing to pay for it.

 

Seabourn was owned by a very wealthy Norwegian family that was willing to pay to own one of the best cruise lines in the world. But the losses were too much even for them. They sold out to Mickey Arison, who was willing to pay to have one of the best cruise lines in the world. But then it got too expensive even or him. He transferred Seabourn to HAL, hoping the could reduce the losses. So far no luck. Still bleeding money.

Hilton Hawaiian Village in Honolulu charges $3.25 for a 12 ounce can of soda from a vending machine.

No straw, no ice, no glass, no napkin, no lime, no smile.

 

Hyatt Hotel on Grand Cayman charges $3.50 for a 12 ounce can of soda from a vending machine.

No straw, no ice, no glass, no napkin, no lime, no smile.

yes cruising has changed drastically.....but so has many other means of commercial travel/vacation....quality lessens while fares/rates rise....:(

one blessing in disguise may be construction of the megaships.....keep building them and alienating cruisers as many lines are doing could result in many ships sailing 1/2 full which could eventually stabilize or even lower cruise prices.

i never had a problem with the cost of cruising but now feel cruising has become ala carte'.......so many add-on costs .....seems many perks of past cruising days are now upcharge items.

will i continue to sail ~ YES

will i continue to pay for subpar quality & service while prices increase ~ probably NOT

 

Unfortunately - in my opinion - the construction of the mega-ships will be the salvation of the entire cruise industry.

With the enormous economies of scale they enjoy, they have become legal licenses to print money.

Just one of RCCL's mega-ships makes more profit than the entire fleet of some of it's competition.

 

Yes, cruising has become ala carte - at the demand of the cruising public. They tell us that they only want to pay for the things they want - not all the things the cruise line offers. Making it ala carte makes it more affordable to more people, driving up occupancy (and onboard profits).

 

Is the cruise industry alienating it's longtime base, the American Market?

Yes, we are slowly but steadily courting Asia.

The middle class of China is currently nearly double the size of the entire population of the USA - and growing very fast. They all have disposable incomes and all tell us that they want to go on a cruise.

If only 10% of them actually take a cruise (once), they will fill every bed on every cruise ship in the world for many years to come.

The Chinese don't really care if they get a chocolate on their pillow every night, and they are very familiar and comfortable with the class system that is now taking over the industry.

Did you know that at one time, Royal Caribbean was targeted to upper middle class cruisers who wanted a quiet relaxing vacation? The line prided itself on its personalized service and excellent food (including being known for the chocolate).

 

It has certainly changed. With the acquisition of Celebrity and the start up of Azamara, the Royal Caribbean corporation made the decision to down class its premier cruise line to compete with Carnival and NCL.

 

They certainly have achieved their goal. Crowded, noisy ships that have mediocre food (and no decent chocolate) with a clientele that want a frantic cruise schedule.

 

Yes, the RCL experience has certainly changed.

 

Now why do you think that a major cruise line would make such a dramatic and costly gamble?

Perhaps it's all about the money??????

The Walmart approach that Carnival Cruise Line and NCL have adopted has been as successful with Americans as Walmart has.

Nobody ever lost any money underestimating the taste of the American Public.

There might have been another option for Carnival: maintain HAL as a small ship, superior service provider - competing neither with the really premium lines nor the mass market lines - filling its own niche. HAL had a large core of loyal repeat customers who have started to look elsewhere (willing to,pay higher prices) and who are being replaced by bargain hunters who would be as happy with any of the other mass market lines as long as the price is right.

 

The changes which you identified as essential could have been made in the other direction.

 

The people who suggest this course of action do not really understand the financial state of the cruise industry.

For reasons good or bad, the cruise industry has painted itself into a corner. We no longer sell cruises to make a profit. Instead we sell them at cost - or at a loss - and rely on onboard spending to make our profits. That model has made Carnival Cruise Line the most financially successful cruise for the past 22 consecutive years. Those bargain hunters attracted by Carnival's low fares are the ones spending all the money onboard and making Carnival so profitable.

 

HAL's biggest challenge for the past 2 decades has been it's loyal repeat cruisers.

Many of these people no longer have any money.

A high percentage are on fixed incomes and afraid to spend anything.

Those who still do have money are no longer interested in purchasing much of anything HAL has to sell them. They bought all the photos, tours, wines, massages, t-shirts, and casino chips many years ago when they seemingly cost less, and are not interested in buying them again.

 

HAL management has quite a challenge.

They are afraid to lose their loyal base, but know that they cannot afford to keep them under current conditions.

They must revise their financial model, and risk alienating the loyal base by doing it.

Right now they are slowly changing the focus to the first time cruiser (that's where the money is), and hoping that the old timers don't notice or complain too much.

 

To complicate the matter, the loyal HAL cruisers rarely believe anything the company tells them - except when HAL repeats that they love the frequent cruisers and want them back again and again. Then everyone drinks the Kool-Aid and gets warm and fuzzy about being loved by a large corporation.

Well there goes that cruise line down the drain.....one time on Oceania most everything was included and now with NCL most things will have a surcharge......

 

NCL will only add a surcharge if they want to make the ships profitable.

Those incredibly selfish Prestige stock holders seem to think they should receive some sort of return for their investment.

Positively un-American if you ask me.............................

Are you saying Oceania and Regent are NOT self supporting ?? I wasn't aware of that.

 

It is very common knowledge in the cruise industry that the smallest cruise ship that can currently make a profit - at any price point - carries over 2,000 passengers.

Anything smaller than that just does not have the economies of scale to make the operation profitable.

I am getting married on the 27th and our honeymoon cruise leaves out of Baltimore 10/10 and heading to Bermuda.

We booked a Jr. Suite. This is the first time my fiance is going on a cruise. It took him some talking into for the cruise, but after my parents, friends and family who also cruise told him how wonderful they are, he agreed. And thankfully he is now really looking forward to our trip next month. I'd like to do something special for him since.

 

When I booked, they asked if I was celebrating anything. I told them this was for our honeymoon. Is there anything that they do special for this? Or would my fiance and I have to buy packages?

 

Thanks!

 

On any cruise from a US port, more than 50% of your fellow passengers claim to be celebrating something; honeymoon, anniversary, or birthday. Unfortunately many of them are being somewhat dishonest. Most of those birthdays and anniversaries are many months away. Many of the alleged honeymooners, when pressed, admit that the wedding was actually as long as one year ago. Technically perhaps, they are still honeymooners, but not quite in the way you will be.

It never hurts to try to get something for nothing when going on a cruise.

 

The staff on your ship are well aware of this popular practice. You should not be too surprised if they are not overly excited about your honeymoon.

But you should also be aware that there are probably 20 or 30 other couples onboard who, like you, really did get married just before the cruise. As a result, you will not be treated as that one special couple onboard.

But it is important that you let them know that you really are on your honeymoon, and not telling stories in order to get that free drink or special attention.

 

Take along a few wedding photos to show around.

Ask the Captain to autograph them.

Maybe request a photo with the Captain.

Let the ship's photo staff know about your special occasion.

Purchasing a honeymoon package is a really good idea.

Alaska also has additional challenges in receiving anything via satellite.

Most of the television and internet satellites orbit near the equator.

Alaska is so far North that the angle of reception is quite critical.

Mountains, trees, buildings, the funnel, and other ships are often blocking the signal to your ship.

Vancouver, Glacier Bay, and Skagway are particularly problematic.

If you do plan to take a box of personal items off the ship in Alaska for mailing, you need to be aware that US Customs MUST be advised in advance.

 

If not, you are, in effect, bringing undeclared items into the USA.

Some people do it and get away with it.

Others get caught and have to pay big fines.

 

If you inform the ship's Purser a few days before you plan to take the items ashore, he can coordinate with US Customs as they clear the ship.

Customs usually requires you to meet them with the proposed items. They make a cursory inspection to ensure that you are not taking dangerous, illegal, or high value items into the USA. The entire thing takes about 15 minutes.

 

Note also that many US Post Offices in Alaska posts have been closed down this past summer as a cost-cutting move.

Juneau still has a small one near the Federal Building downtown. Many other Alaska ports require a long taxi ride out of town to mail something.

My ship was doing a Transatlantic voyage from Rome to Ft Lauderdale a few years ago.

In the middle of the Atlantic, a passenger who claimed to be a very devout and conservative member of the Jewish faith approached me.

He pointed out that we were scheduled to arrive in Ft Lauderdale on the Sabbath.

I confirmed that point for him.

 

He pointed out that his faith forbids him from conducting any business on the Sabbath.

No problem.............so far.....................

 

He then pointed out that going through US Immigration in Ft Lauderdale is considered conducting business.

He informed me that he and his wife would refuse - on religious grounds - to go through US Immigration in Ft Lauderdale. He further informed me that that if necessary, we could arrange to take him and his wife off the ship in handcuffs, kicking and screaming.

I advised him that my cruise line had nothing to do with US immigration rules and procedures, and informed him that we never take our guests off the ship in handcuffs.

 

But I did point out that in my experience, US Immigration Officials do not have much of a sense of humor in cases like this. I promised him that I would contact our Ft Lauderdale agent to see what could be done.

 

The agent spoke with Immigration, who as predicted, were not amused. They advised me to speak again with the passenger before we arrived at Ft Lauderdale.

 

Early on the morning of arrival, I visited the passengers in question, asking if they had any new information for me. They once again advised me that they would refuse to go through US Immigration. They repeated the handcuffs / kicking / screaming story.

I did ask them what might happen to me if I tried such a thing at Ben Gurion airport in Israel. They replied that I would be jailed immediately.

Fair answer.............................

 

On arrival at Ft Lauderdale, all the other passengers went through US Immigration. The officials asked me about our 2 Jewish guests.

I visited them once again in their cabin, asking them for any news.

They repeated that they would refuse to participate.

 

I reported their final story to the Immigration Officials - and received quite a surprise.

The officials informed me that since the passengers had a religious issue with Immigration, a special processing procedure would be used for them. They would be allowed to remain in their cabin, if I acted as a proxy by bringing their passports and other papers to the officials and completing the immigration procedures for them.

 

The fee for this special procedure would be US$600 per passenger.......................proving that US Immigration Officials do, indeed, have a sense of humor.

The Immigration Supervisor stated, "Let's see how Jewish they really are" - further proving his sense of humor.

 

I returned to the guests' cabin to give them the news.

They wanted to negotiate the $600 fee to a lower number.

I pointed out that negotiating fees would most likely violate their rule of conducting business on the Sabbath - and I already knew that the fees were not negotiable.

 

The couple asked for some privacy while they talked it over.

After 30 minutes, the husband came out of the cabin.

He said, "God is not worth $600. I will go through immigration now."

But his wife still refused.

I processed her immigration papers for her and we charged her credit card for the $600.

There is no brand specification for bottled water on any ship I have managed.

Bottle sizes and price points are the only parameters we require.

We receive whatever brand the purveyor delivers.

 

Since we receive many tens of thousands of bottles at one time, that particular brand stays onboard for a number of weeks or months. If the ship happened to be in Indonesia or Europe when the water was delivered, the water will be a brand that is common there.

There is a Lawson market very near the pier in Yokohama. It shows on the Google Map. We bought some $6 red wine there last year. Not the greatest. I think they may have had some more expensive choices but it is limited.

 

Tom

 

That is why you need to go to Yamaya (best choice) or at least to one of the many Don Quijote outlets around Yokohama.

we have an Alaska cruise booked with Princess out of Seattle in september. Truthfully, it has been nothing but a headache ever since we made the full payment, our cabin was changed to an upgrade (which was NOT) flight times changed several times and we had to cancel and book our own etc etc etc

today i received an email stating when to arrive at the port to begin boarding. while i understand this may be great to try to avoid over crowding at certain times. However it flight arrival or hotel check out was definately NOT considered.

We are looking for a well deserved relaxing vacation, full of fun and natural beauty. We are not looking at sitting in airports for hours and hours or having to sit in some restaurant etc for hours waiting for our time to head over to the port.

What are your feelings?

 

Easy. You can ignore their advice and arrive as early as you want at the terminal.

Everybody else does it - why not you?

After all, this is the ME, ME, ME, ME, ME Generation you are cruising with.

Then you can have a nice leisurely wait standing in line for a few hours to check in.

Then you get shuttled to the buffet, because your cabin is not ready yet.

At the buffet you can fight the mobs trying to eat their money's worth on the first day, then get in some exercise trying to find an empty table where you can eat.

That all sounds very relaxing, don't you think?

 

The civilized passengers arrange for a late check out at the hotel, then go to a nice restaurant for a leisurely lunch, stop back at the hotel to pick up their bags, arrive at the terminal after all the mob scene at check-in has disappeared, check-in takes about 2 minutes, stroll aboard with no lines in front of you, cabin is ready, mob scene at the buffet has been cleared up, have a nice snack and a drink, fully relaxed and already in vacation mode.

Most of the major cruise lines offer a version of this service.
It is managed by a third party company.
It is not available at all ports.
It is not available through all airlines.
It must be domestic flights only.
It is only for flights departing in a selected time window.

San Diego Customs - famous for being difficult about nearly everything - is particularly difficult about who is allowed to take advantage of this program.

Good luck.

OK. Here is how it really works.

Cruise lines only inspect and x-ray bags that are carried up the gangway.

They rely on other people to check everything else.

 

In many countries today, local port security regulations require that all provisions, spare parts, and luggage are inspected / x-rayed before going onboard.

Most cruise lines also have their own requirements that usually match or exceed the local regulations.

 

Under Security Levels MARSEC 1 - 4, different levels of protocols are required, depending on the perceived security threats.

MARSEC 1 is the security level that most cruise ships operate under most of the time, with the lowest levels of inspections.

 

Cruise Ships do not have sufficient staff to handle the x-rays / inspections. In many cases, even if they did have the staff, local immigration policies would not allow them to work ashore to make those inspections.

 

In some countries, the x-rays / inspections are done by government employees.

TSA does some of this in some US Ports.

Local Port Security Staff are assigned to do it in some countries.

Private Security Staff are hired to do it in some other countries.

 

Generally, cruise line employees are only allowed to open your suitcases when you are present.

I disagree that airline pricing is more transparent than cruise pricing. I can understand and follow cruise pricing, but airlines are a dart throw.

 

I took a reposition once from Vancouver to Ft. Lauderdale that had segments, Vancouver to San Francisco and then to Ft. Lauderdale. Talking to others, I found a range of prices people had paid at various times of booking. One couple booked a return to LA while on the reposition. I haven't found pricing discussion to be taboo, I understand it, and I have never regretted what I got even when others got a lower price.

 

On most ships if you ask 10 passengers in the same cabin category what they paid for their cruise, you will receive 10 very different answers. About half of them will be true.

 

Every cruise I receive more than a dozen complaints from passengers who spoke with fellow cruisers about what they paid for the cruise. These "wronged" people tell me their cruise was ruined when they discovered they paid more than their fellow cruisers.

I am guessing that about half of these people are being truthful.

 

Regardless of that, why would anyone want to ruin someone else's cruise by talking prices?

Isn't it curious that none of the posters on this thread even considered another option that is very popular all over planet Earth - with the exception of the USA.

 

Raw beef is served in many forms in places like England, France, Holland, Germany, Spain, Italy, Japan, Korea, and Russia.

 

And it's wonderful.

 

You people need to get out a bit more.

For those of you who have been demanding lower and lower cruise fares - you should have been more careful about what you wished for.

The Cruise Line CEOs were listening, and they gave you the lower fares you wanted - despite rapidly escalating operating costs.

 

How did they manage to do that, you ask?

 

Easy. They cut back on service staff who were not directly responsible for increasing onboard revenues, and replaced them with staff who directly increase onboard revenues, in order to cover the losses we incur with your lower fares.

 

Who were those service staff who were cut?

Waiters and cabin stewards. They provide service - but do not directly make any profits for us.

Now their beds are being used by tooth whiteners, acupuncturists, barbers, B&W Photographers, Art Auctioneers, Florists, Shop Staff, Cellarmasters, etc.

 

Why should this matter to you?

Because we no longer have enough service staff to cover dining rooms, specialty restaurants, buffets, and room service all at the same time.

On busy nights, staff needs to be pulled from buffets and room service to have enough staff in the dining rooms to prevent long delays for your food.

If we refuse service to badly dressed slobs trying to get into the dining room, they will need to eat somewhere else. We MUST feed all of you somewhere.

But if these badly dressed people go to the buffet or call room service, there are no longer enough staff there to take care of them, and the other passengers who chose those options.

 

How do we fix this problem?

We pull wait staff from the dining room to handle them, meaning that the diners in the dining room will have to wait one hour between courses. They will miss the evenings entertainment and get very upset with us.

 

Any questions?

I book a mixture of direct and ta.

 

only once did I use a princess rep and she too had never been on a ship.

 

is there any way to get a princess rep with cruise experience?

 

Yes, there is an easy way.

 

1. Raise the fare for your cruise by $50 per day.

2. Use the extra money to erect a multi-million dollar building in the USA large enough to accommodate the required number of reps.

3. Hire qualified reps and pay them more than minimum wage.

4. Give those reps a good package of amenities.

5. Train those reps and require them to take frequent cruises on the company ships - in revenue cabins that have been blocked for this purpose.

 

Point #1 is going to be a problem for most of the people on this board.

Point #5 is going to be a big problem for the cruise line Sales and Marketing people.

Travel and cruising have changed dramatically over the past few decades.

 

We are now seeing more and more travelers who really can just barely afford to be on a cruise or traveling somewhere.

As experienced travelers already know, running into unexpected situations is pretty normal when traveling. This usually involves spending more money to resolve those situations.

 

The travelers who cannot afford a passport, insurance, or quality travel will just have to learn the hard way - and hope the lesson is not too expensive.

There is an easy solution to all of this drama.

Price out the riff-raff.

Take a cruise away from North America.

Spring Breakers do not have the time or money to follow you.

Most other countries do not have this nonsense.