Tarpeian Rock

We were on Zuiderdam last year, and the Grand Princess last month. We did not have a/c problems on Zuiderdam as we were in a midships cabin; we know others who did. Given a choice, we'd sail Princess again in a minute, for a number of reasons, not the least a far better main dining room experience, better overall service, and a much friendlier staff.

[quote name='rkacruiser']I agree with SilvertoGold: more consistency in the cruise product offered throughout the fleet is needed. Cruise product consistency used to be a hallmark of HAL. One knew from one cruise to another what to expect. Maybe a sign that the fleet has become too large; too difficult to manage? Or, are Hotel Directors/Captains being given too much latitude to "do their own thing", within reason of course.

Interactive TV's in the staterooms are needed and I am hopeful that the newbuild will have them.[/QUOTE]



Concerning "do your own thing," my guess would be that the Hotel Directors are challenged/incented to come in under whatever is budgeted for cost, and over what is projected for profit, for their ship, perhaps per quarter. I can see this leading to tinkering with menus, staff levels, etc., in order to make/beat their number. Same would go for the Entertainment management back in Seattle.

Bump up fares by $25 per person per 1-week segment, and use the money to improve the quality of the MDR food. Restore some level of better wine service in the MDR. Take a page from Princess' book and introduce something like the International Cafe.

Name a cruise line and you will see problems reported. From Silver Seas, to Regent, to Crystal, to Oceania, to P&O, to Celebrity to Holland America, and on and on and on. Carnival comes in for more than its fair share, but they also have a lot of ships. http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Disabling.html#2012

 

BTW: unconfirmed sole passenger complaints need verification.

 

 

 

The persistent drumbeat of reported a/c problems in aft cabins in Zuiderdam, and the equally predictable lack of effective staff response, hardly fit into the category of "unconfirmed sole passenger complaints."

We were passengers on the October 18th cruise to the Panama Canal abroad the Zuiderdam. We did not have air conditioning in our aft-facing cabin for the entire trip. In fact, according to the front desk supervisor, all the aft facing cabins on deck 6, 7 & 8 had air conditioning issues. In reading the forums I’ve noticed this seems to be a recurring problem. Holland America’s response to the problem was pathetic while on board and non-existent since we’ve been home.

 

They pretty much brushed it off while on board saying the engineers were working on it, then after several days, stating that it was as good as it gets. I don’t believe cruising the Caribbean without AC (with a cabin temperature ranging from 84-89 degrees) is acceptable considering the prices we paid for the privilege to cruise on their ship.

 

I believe Holland America is taking advantage of the fact that each individual passenger thinks it’s a unique problem and that the passenger was just unlucky enough to choose a cabin with an AC problem. The majority of us don’t wish to spend our vacation arguing and complaining at the front desk over something that is beyond their control and trust that we are dealing with a reputable company. If in fact they are aware of an ongoing problem it is inexcusable that Holland America continue to ruin our vacations. Our expectation is that we are dealing with a reputable company who will provide us with the luxury vacation we paid for, not camping in the tropics!

 

My point: I’d like to know your specific experiences. We were in cabin 7145 for the October 18, 2013 Panama Canal cruise. Please share your information. Maybe if we gather enough specific information we can at the very least make future cruisers aware of areas to avoid on the ship. And maybe Holland America will pay attention that as cruisers and Cruise Critic members there is a forum through which they will be held accountable.

 

 

 

Your experience matches precisely that of dinner companions on our November 2012 partial Canal transit on Zuiderdam (as well as matching numerous other postings here). Fortunately, we were in a lesser cabin and our a/c amidships was fine. I believe you are completely correct in thinking that HAL's plan to deal with what appears to be an intractable a/c problem is to leverage the "each individual passenger" approach and play out "Service Desk kabuki" following the script that they are shocked, shocked that someone is having a problem, say the engineers are working on it, then time goes by, then offer a fan, then stall as long as possible, and then after numerous complaints and several sleepless nights, offer-up a sleeping cabin. That was the script we witnessed last year, and that appears to be the script behind numerous postings I've read since then. Perhaps Zuiderdam just needs to be moved to the Alaska run. Or maybe its heat doesn't work either.

I'm not sure self-debarkation is always available. On our October cruise on the Grand out of/into San Francisco, we tried for self-debarkation and were told it wouldn't be allowed because of the need to give priority to people with tight connections. We ended up on the ship until after 10:00.

Hal could learn something from Princess. I've done quite a few cruises on Princess and they never struggle in the MDR like HAL does.

 

 

 

Amen. We just did our first Princess cruise, and found the MDR experience significantly superior to our last couple of HAL sailings -- in food quality, presentation, and especially service.

We were on the 10/19 sailing of the Grand, and the food quality varied quite a lot. Some of it was fantastic - goat cheese soufflé for instance. Some of it not nearly as good in the past - pad thai. The pad thai used to have a sunnyside egg on top, which you could mix into the noodles and veg. Delicious. On the 10/19 sailing, the sunnyside egg had been replaced with about a tablespoon of dry, overcooked scrambled eggs.

 

There was also a lack of attention to details on several items in terms of garnishes being left off.

 

Over all, not too bad, but certainly not as good as on some past cruises.

 

 

 

We were on the 10/4 sailing of the Grand (Hawaiian Circle) and were actually quite pleased with the MDR dinners, taste, and presentation, except the last night of the cruise wasn't up to the prior 2 weeks. Horizon Court, however, was another matter - in 2 weeks were only ate there twice, and walked through several other times and decided to take a pass and head to International Cafe instead. We ended up doing MDR breakfasts most days also. I believe the 10/19 sailing was a one-week California Coastal. I wonder if the provisioning and menus are that much different based on length of cruise, of if we were just lucky. I certainly thought that our MDR dinners were superior to our last experiences on Holland.

My daughter and I were also on the Panama Canal cruise on the Zuiderdam last week. We did not have AC in our aft-facing cabin for the entire 10 day cruise (7145). After several calls and visits to the front desk for the first two days, I finally resorted to a handwritten letter explaining my problems on day 3. We were given a category HH “sleeping cabin” located 3 decks and half a ship away.

The front desk personnel were the MOST unhelpful group I’ve ever encountered on a cruise. I do not go on vacation to spend my time arguing and complaining about the accommodations. The final day of the cruise I met with a supervisor and I was told they were having difficulty adjusting the system on the aft facing cabins on decks 6, 7 & 8 after moving from the Alaska summer cruises. I believe they were aware of the problems before we ever boarded.

I cruise once or twice a year and have tried most of the traditional cruise lines. This is my first and last cruise with Holland America.

I feel it’s important to post my specific displeasure regarding the AC issue with the aft facing cabins so those of you planning your cruises can plan accordingly. I happen to travel with a thermometer; our cabin temp never went below 78 and was as high as 88 degrees. This was in spite of our diligence in keeping the veranda door closed at all times, placing clothes pins to hold the drapes together to keep the sun out, and only showering after dark.

 

 

 

Your report is a carbon copy of what friends we sailed with experienced on Zuiderdam in a November 2012 Canal cruise -- too hot aft cabin, many days of complaints, finally given a sleeping cabin, unresponsive front desk. (We had a midships cabin and were OK.) When the same behaviors are repeated a year apart, it's hard not to believe that HAL has ceased caring.

Mine is from Scorsese's "Goodfellas". It remains one of my favorite movies and is from a scene where Henry Hill introduces us to a bunch of the regular mobsters hanging around at their favorite bar.

 

I first used this way back on the old AOL cruise boards (pre-CC days).:D

 

 

 

"Gonna go get the papers, get the papers...." Great movie!

We ended up in Rome on a Eurodam TA. One of the off-the-beaten-track sites we visited in Rome was the cliff at the back of the Capitoline Hill where traitors to the state were executed by being thrown off the cliff - the Tarpeian Rock. Where they "landed" is now a parking lot. It was the one place in Rome where we got to be totally alone and feel the ghosts of Ancient Rome. Captured my imagination, thus my screen name. Also a tribute to the 4 years of Latin I survived in high school.

When you are outside the United States, whether it is a ship at sea or before you exit the U.S. Customs area at the airport, the United States Constitution does not apply.

 

If you are on a ship at sea the Captain does have the right to enter your cabin without a search warrant. He/she also has the right to detain you, lock you in the ship's brig, and even order a search.

 

To often, many U.S. citizens travelling abroad think that the rights that we enjoy in the U.S. will apply to them no matter where they area. Unfortunately this is not true.

 

 

 

Yes, I do understand that. So as a couple in our 60's who are light drinkers and who have never done so much as bring a bottle of wine on board, this still leaves me wondering how to protect ourselves against unreasonable searches and detention -- short of giving up cruising. Apparently there is no such protection.

The Passage Contract:

 

You agree Carrier has, at all times with or without notice, the right to enter and search Your stateroom, personal safe or storage spaces, or to search You, Your baggage and/or personal effects at any location.

 

 

 

Interesting. So in theory, ship's personnel have the right to enter our cabin in the middle of the night, strip-search my wife and me, without notice and without probable cause, and being totally subject to their rules and being in international waters, I have neither legal protection nor recourse. I never realized cruising could be so, um, exciting.

This happened to us in March on the Golden. Our bag did not show up at the cabin we had to go deck 4 by the medical centre to claim our bag where it was searched, all alcohol was removed and destroyed.

 

 

 

Is there something in the cruise contract or terms of passage that allows the cruise line to open and search bags in the passangers' absence?

Be sure to try the Chicken Pho. Amazing. Nearly life-changing (well, we thought so).

The wine or beer is intended to be an accompaniment to a meal, so ordering food would have to be a part of it.

 

My major points; however, were that the hours of service are restricted, and that bar, or lounge, service is specifically excluded.

 

 

 

You are truly a fount of knowledge about all this, so I have further questions paralleling what I've learned with your help on a related thread. We have the prestige package, so we - in theory anyway, though this has yet to be proven - aren't under the "lunch/dinner" restriction. But to your point quoted above: what are, in fact, the "bar hours?" Does the presence of the lunch/dinner restriction mean that something like a mimosa or Bloody Mary or for that matter a glass of champagne aren't in fact available with breakfast? I can't believe the ship is dry until lunch, but with the package language being couched in terms of bar hours, and with "bar hours" being nowhere defined, it got me to wondering.

 

And I guess I'm over thinking all this, but I'm even wondering if even the prestige package truly covers wine by the glass at lunch or dinner in a dining venue -- the reason being that with the limitation of ordering from the "bar menu" to qualify for inclusion under the package, if one is in the MDR, or Polo, or wherever, they aren't "in the bar," and therefore why would the "bar menu" (a) even be there; and, (b) apply to a physical environment (a dining venue) that wasn't in fact "the bar?" If your health insurance covers in-patient services, but you go to the Emergency Room, you're "in the hospital" but not an "in-patient." Similarly, drinks are served in the MDR, but you're not "in the bar," so the beverage package wouldn't seem to provide "coverage." I wish the terms of the packages were spelled out more clearly instead of that awkward and confusing wording on the website.

 

This is what a career in insurance contract law will do to your head!

You could say the exact same thing about the auction art. How much does canvas and paint cost? $50 at most? So why do they want thousands for a painting?

 

Clearly some people believe that art has intrinsic value beyond the cost of the physical components.

 

 

 

Well, for starters, paintings usually take longer than 1/200th of a second. (Although some of the "artwork" we've seen on board couldn't have taken too much longer than that!)

Adding our thanks for your photos also. We'll be on Riviera in March - our first with Oceania - and your pictures have helped with our "daydreams" of the cruise!

Sharks swarm to the scene when they smell blood. That was fast.

 

 

 

You've got that right. And to think that some people think Great Whites are the scariest kind of shark..........

Hi

 

I am not doubting you but on the HAL site there are two cruises to Panama November 9th Nov 19 10 day cruise

November 19- 11 day cruise.

 

Mary

 

Those people on thoses two cruises better be told soon.

 

 

 

We're on the 11/9 cruise, and these postings are giving us a huge case of "cold feet." We wouldn't be too crazy about going on any ship just before dry dock, but in the face of all the plumbing and a/c posts on the Zuiderdam, really don't know .......

Fully support this - - - and not the last of the post-Concordia changes to the cruising life.