scifimonkey

I don't see the uncertainty of the Israel porting to be any different than cruising the Caribbean within Hurricane Season.

 

An itinerary is in place, if a hurricane comes up it gets interrupted and ports canceled or changed. Celebrity does not post ahead of hurricane season its "contingency plans" for all cruises in the region "just in case". Not would I expect them to do so for calls in troubled areas of the world. There are just watt too many variables and "what if's" to consider.

Except you cannot predict the location of a hurricane three months in advance. So the planning to deal with it would be quite different.

Also, with respect, Caribbean ports are not so different from each other as Med. Ports. So a switch has less impact on pre cruise planning.

Still we are not going to convince you or phxazz of this so will you go down the line or put up a lob next?

My block volley is

There is only one variable that concerns the passengers on these cruises -

What if we do not stop in Israel?

Apparently the answer from Celebrity is at present "we don't know".

Many of us folk who are actually on these cruises think that's a bit weak and that a cruise company should be able to say more and you think it's fine to leave it at that.

Think that summarises everything so maybe you should go back to worrying about how you will be treated in Jamaica and Dubai( which by the way is worse than Jamaica) and leave us to worry about our itinerary which is looking rather more holey than holy.

We could all probably spend our time more fruitfully trying to help other CC members across the rest of the board as this is looking more and more like a fifth set tie break that never ends. It would also appear that the thread seems to be being edited to remove many of the posts critical of Celebrity and requesting the publication of a plan b itinerary so I am not sure we are playing on a level court.

Sorry, confused you with the original poster.

Apology accepted

IMHO, you seem to suggest that Celebrity is in the "bait and switch" business. Not so. It is their intention to give their passengers the intended itinerary. BUT, in the travel industry, situations can change, and those that choose to travel should be aware that best made plans can change...very rapidly.

 

I do not work in the travel industry, but I have always realized that when I book a cruise or plan a land trip, etc. that I need to mentally prepared in case of a itinerary changes.

 

We've been on cruises that the itinerary had to be altered. It happens, and we just rolled with it. Some were do to weather, some to decisions the Port Authority made in that particular port, etc. Whatever the reasons, we were aware of what could "possibly" occur while cruising.

Not so,my response was just to illustrate to the previous poster that I did have some experience of running a successful business which clearly takes a little more customer focused approach than what we are currently experiencing. Bait and switch is not what I am alleging however this is not the normal last minute problem with weather or strikes this is a clear and measurable threat to the itinerary months in advance. If X have the information to assist their passengers in making an educated decision before parting with their money, and I think they probably do, then it seems reasonable to me to pass this information on. As I said I believe that this would secure far more sales than it would lose including the one most important to me! We can deal with change, even substantial change but if we find out later that X could have reduced the impact of that change through preparing us for it, or reduced the stress of the uncertainty by providing a clear plan B then we might reasonably think less of them.

I like cruising with Celebrity, I am not out to bash the company, I and others in the same position are just appealing for a little more info and communication from X to help us prepare and plan for that change , or bail out if we choose to without taking a large financial hit, and a little shared experience, preferably without the snide asides from CC members.

Clearly a much bigger ask than I thought at the outset.

You didn't originally come here asking people to list their own past experiences; you were asking for Celebrity to make a statements.

Before YOU tell ME why I came on this thread please have the decency to read my first post. Post 23. I think my reasons for originally posting were pretty clearly to ask people to help with their past experience!!! Where it went after that was purely a response to the replies.

Of course past responses are no guarantee but as I said in post 23 I will happily decide on a balance of probabilities, just need some info to base a decision on and to help me do some preparation for what might come. Ideally from Celebrity but failing that from others who may have experienced this before. Despite having been on CC for a while I did not quite expect the extent of the bile that was stirred up. The other boards I have used on CC have generally been helpful rather than sounding like the aggressive desk of the cruise companies P R department.

Thanks for the experience parts of the post.

I'm going to be very blunt. You really should just cancel. Maybe then you will be fully satisfied and can move on. I know it's disappointing not knowing but what you're expecting Celebrity to do is not realistic and in the end you just don't want to agree with this.

Thanks for the advice. Not willing to give up on it yet but will back off this thread and give someone else a chance.

Istanbul overnight was substituted when we missed Israel.

Mamarirs, Turkey and Rhodes, Greece were substituted when we missed Egypt. We were told about each cancelation a day or two before. New tours were available at the time of the announcements.

Thank you, finally someone tries to be helpful.

How many other cruise lines do what some of you are asking?

They don't all have climbing walls either !

Please read cruisemom42's response. Those are some of the exact reasons why the cannot give plan B. I could not have said it better. It seems that some of you posters do not understand business at all.

In my business we ensure that our customers are very clear about what they are buying for their money. We do not sell them one thing and then substitute another and we always keep them up to date with any product changes at the earliest possible moment and offer alternatives if we cannot fulfil their order to the letter. Strangely this seems to work well with very few unsatisfied customers.

What kind of business are you in?? Or do you work in the cruise industry for whom this honest and open approach would appear to be a surprisingly strange concept!!!

Exactly correct. We booked a Med cruise one time specifically because of two African ports. On our way out the door to the airport, we received a call that both ports had been cancelled 'for safety reasons'. Nothing 'special' was going on at the time, no specific reason given, and two ports in Spain were substituted. Were we disappointed? Yup, but we still had a great time.

 

Having said that, I think if I booked a Holy Land cruise minus the Holy Land, I would consider changing to a different itinerary for this year and rebooking my Holy Land cruise for next year, but there are of course no guarantees that that wouldn't be cancelled too in that volatile part of the world.

 

FWIW, I have been on more cruises with altered itineraries/issues than ones without. Ship happens.

If only we had the flexibility to choose another time. But with business commitments overlain with school holidays we are not that lucky. Not everyone can simply re-book.

We had a choice if we wanted to sail Celebrity between this and the Canaries out of Southampton ? Eastern med and antiquities or Atlantic and windswept rocks in late October, hmm now let me see???

I am not against them substituting other ports as they did in your case, I would settle for a commitment that we will not be left with 6 consecutive sea days but I cannot even get that at the moment. If even that commitment is not possible then we will have to cancel, lose our 2014 vacation and however much I'd like to think otherwise, as I really love their product, it will leave a very sour taste with respect to booking with Celebrity in the future.

Will keep calling periodically in the hope that at some point before final payment we can get a bit more than the current blank scripted response. Just a bit of reassurance that the product will be worth the outlay would be enough to 'keep me on board' but I am not holding my breath, it seems like both Celebrity and most of the contributors to CC just expect us to gamble thousands of dollars on a pot luck itinerary which might as far as we can establish at the moment have no ports of call for most of it.

Disappointing on both fronts, but you are entitled to your opinions which is after all what we seek by posting here and Celebrity are entitled to keep their customers as much in the dark about what they are purchasing as they choose to, however unethical it may appear. We are entitled to cancel and save our money to spend elsewhere which I guess as time moves on without any additional information will become our only option.

Truly wish my fellow travellers wrestling with this conundrum the best of luck in the decision they finally make.

Just where there is a clear and obvious risk to the published itinerary.

This would not be necessary very often as most risks are by their very nature last minute and unexpected and certainly not foreseeable before the final payment.

This is a clear and substantial risk, known to Celebrity in advance of receiving payment for their service. It is not a single port day but three port days, it is a large section of the cruise and furthermore the fundamental basis of the cruise description.

It is therefore a fairly unique situation.

Celebrity probably have no obligation to advise on the alternative due to the lengthy disclaimer in their conditions but to do so and clarify what their customers might actually be paying for would remove the uncertainty which will otherwise inevitably lead to significant cancellations and bad feeling amongst customers,(both those who cancel and those who continue but then get a much amended itinerary post payment).

It seems to me that publishing the alternative port itinerary in this case would reduce cancellations and underscore good customer service at zero risk.

Would I pay $15,000 for a 14day cruise with the risk of 8 sea days? No

Would I pay$15,000 if there was a risk that the Israel ports would be replaced by Istanbul and Cyprus when cancelling would mean the loss of my 2014 vacation, Yes.

Would I book again with Celebrity if they showed poor forward planning and a lack of openness and effort in communicating with customers, No.

Would I book again with Celebrity when they had clearly done everything possible to keep me fully informed in a difficult and rare situation, Yes, in fact more so.

When the answer to enquiries by telephone and on this board is, we don't know, we have no information, it is frustrating at best and annoying at worst. It's also almost certainly not true corporately, even if it is for the poor individuals having to deal with the enquiries.

We can all see the risk and we all expect the company to have contingency plans to deal with it because you cannot simply reroute a large cruise ship overnight.

The failure to share that plan with their customers leads to a fear that probably the only reason not to tell us is that it truly is a very poor alternative like 6 consecutive sea days.

Great to hear that standards on Silhouette are still high. We hope to be returning to her in October. Not sure where we are going yet but good to know that we will be able to enjoy getting there!

Clearly Celebrity cannot predict the situation in three months time, I don't expect them to, but it would be helpful and encourage me to complete my booking and probably a lot of others too if they could indicate just what they propose to do if they had to cancel the Israel ports.

Personally I do not think that that should be too much of a stretch for them as unless they plan to sail the ship in circles for 3 days they must already have a plan in place. ( if they do not then they are far less competent than I give them credit for). It would be disappointing to find that it was just another couple of Greek Islands but at least we could start some form of contingency planning to make sure that we could make the the very best of the alternative locations if the worst were to happen.

To find out about a change to the itinerary with little or no notice would reduce the potential of any alternative port,however superficially attractive, to a level where it would be unlikely dampen the disappointment of the passengers, disappointment that will raise a rash of claims and bad feeling that will undoubtedtly permeate these boards and the twittersphere for many months and maybe impact future sales well beyond those directly affected.

On the other hand if customers are preadvised of plan B they would have the opportunity to make their own contingency plan and more crucially could not complain to Celebrity that they were unaware of what would happen,in the event that Israel was not accessible, when they completed their booking.

I cannot see a downside to the release of a plan B. it does not commit them to do anything other than implement a declared contingency plan in the event that they cannot fulfil the original itinerary, a contingency plan that they almost certainly have in place already.

For this openness and transparency prior to final payment they are likely to get far less cancellations and a considerable amount of goodwill from their customers. Where is the problem with this?:confused:

We had Egypt canceled back in 2011 (which was the reason we booked THAT cruise). We still went and had the best cruise of our lives.

 

BUT

 

I don't think you will get an answer from X at this point as they will not cancel the Israel stops unless they absolutely have to and they will wait to see if the violence stops or slows down. On that same trip in 2011 the two cruises before us had their Ashdod stops cancelled because of bombing but ours kept our 2 days there because it had slowed down. Celebrity is in a difficult position on this, which I know doesn't help you, but if they cancel the ports now and all is quiet come Sept/Oct people will be very unhappy that the ports are cancelled....its' not as if they can decide one day to go and the next not to go and the next to go again...especially in Israel where port security is unbelievably tight.

 

All I'm saying is if Israel is a must port stop for you and the cruise would be a bust if you don't go there then you should cancel cause if the current level of violence continues there is a good possibility those ports will be cancelled.

Can you remember what Celebrity put in place when they cancelled the Ashdod stops in 2011?? It would be really helpful to know what has been done in the past.

There have been a number of posts regarding this issue and on the whole the OP's have had a hard time from other CC members (its easy to be flippant if it doesn't directly affect you!).

It would be really helpfull to me and the rest of us who are affected by this and much more in the spirit of CC if other members could let us know what Celebrity have done in the past as it may provide an indication of what they might do this time if, as looks likely, the troubles continue.

I suspect that most people who have booked this cruise consider Israel to be the highlight if not an essential component of this cruise , otherwise they would have booked one of the many predominantly Italian or Greek itineraries. I also doubt that many people wish to cancel if they can help it but are understandably worried about shelling out 10's of thousands of dollars on a pot luck itinerary.

It also seems clear that, rather disappointingly, Celebrity are unwilling to give us any help prior to final payment (which in itself only inflates the concern that the alternative will not be very attractive) so they have turned to other CC members in the hope that they might just be able to provide the confidence from their experience to allow them to take the risk of not cancelling.

There are clearly no guarantees but i would be more than happy to settle for an informed balance of probability!

Anyone actually want to help rather than carp!

Dear Celebrity:

 

Thank you for answering!

It would be much appreciated if you kept us informed about any further plans or changes.

 

Oliver

I also appreciate Celebrities interest and the fact that they take the trouble to monitor and respond to their customers concerns. It would be very helpful however for all those who are directly affected by this to have a little more transparency about both the Israel and the propulsion situation on Silhouette cruises ahead.

It would also be helpful if cc members shared their experiences of previous similar situations and outcomes rather than jumping on the OP as if they were being outrageous in wishing to know more about what for those involved is a difficult and worrying situation.

I will leave the propulsion issue as it is dealt with in other posts but it seems to me that the issue of Israel must have been on the table since the cruise was planned in the first place. The difficulties arising from the Alexandria cancellation with the originally inserted Katakolon having to be replaced by Argostoli also illustrate that it is not easy to find alternatives and I suspect it is nigh on impossible at short notice. The propulsion issues will no doubt limit options even further.

Israel is a volatile place and trouble is always likely to rear its head periodically so I find it hard to believe that there has not at least been an outline of a plan B in place since the outset. The current troubles will hopefully subside and the itinerary of the 4th and 18th October cruises pass off without incident however there is no way in which Celebrity can claim that any recurrence of the problem at the last minute is force majore or unexpected. This is not like a strike or bad weather or engine failure. The current troubles represent a known problem (as indeed are the engine issues) that clearly exist prior to their customers being asked to make substantial final payments of 10s of thousands of dollars.

It is not therefore IMHO unreasonable for their customers to request a statement as to what Celebrities plan B is, should the worst happen. Such a statement would allow customers to complete their booking in full knowledge of the facts and unless the plan B was a dreadful one, two extra sea days or a couple more dodgy minor Greek Islands, there should be no effect on take up and a big upswell of support for Celebrity as they underline their commitment to customer service.

If we know the potential alternatives we are forewarned and can do our own contingency planning. This will result in less stress for passengers, less need to compensate if things do go wrong and less unhappy passengers having to deal with unforeseen change.

Speaking for myself it would have a big positive impact on my willingness to complete my booking. I feel like at the moment,with no feedback on the impact of the troubles either with engines or Israel on my 18th October cruise I am being asked to speculate tens of thousands of dollars on a pot luck itinerary and much as I love Celebrity and the occasional flutter in their casinos this gamble is a bit on the rich side.

Hopefully more info will be forthcoming, we can all complete with confidence and the whole thing will be a source of amusing banter in the sunset bar overlooking Ashdod! (The alternative of a written off vacation for 2014, no chance of another cruise until summer 2015 and my faith in Celebrity seriously soured is not so palatable)

Silhouette, Venice

I wonder if anyone can give me some information.

 

We are due to sail on the Connie in April 2015, and one of the ports of call is Naples, unfortunately we have done this port of call to death, been there 3 times by cruise and also I stayed in Sorrento for 2 weeks during the 80s.

 

I have been looking at the tours, but it seems that Celebrity do not run a tour to Mount Vesuvius, this is the only place that Hubby and I have not been to, does anyone know if Celebrity do run tours up this Volcano.

 

Thanks

Not sure if they still do it but last October we did an X tour including climbing Versuvius in the morning with Pompei in the afternoon. The views from the top are amazing and the walk up is not too severe but may be challenging if you have any mobility impairment.

I assume that you are planning this route as part of a scenic round about route

to Rome. As has been said, certainly the latter part of this line is picturesque.

If you wanted to use trains but have a slicker experience than first great western however you could take the train all the way to Rome from London via Paris and Milan. 2hr30mins to Paris, 7hrs to Milan and circa 3hr 30mins to Rome. With a day or two's stop in each city it can make an amazing pre cruise tour through three of the fashion capitals of the world on really fast trains. Might need an extra case for shopping on route however. I think there is a sleeper train from Paris to Milan as an alternative to a daytime TGV. if you book well in advance you can get some pretty good deals.

I would not advise the bus to Plymouth unless cost is the most important factor. It would be really cheap but a bit wearing for part of a vacation.

....................................

Part of me really wishes they would just raise the prices of the cruise a little and at least maintain live entertainment and activities staff instead of just adding more and more "individual fee based" dining options. But that's just me!

Listen up Celebrity as the lady is talking a lot of sense!

Modern Luxury might work as a stripped down aesthetic but the entire X cruise experience is in danger of getting theadbare in places, particularly on the entertainment front. Add to this a perception that drinks prices and speciality restaurant fee levels are getting out of hand for experiences that do not always match up to the offer and there will be less satisfied customers.

You might just consider that whilst lowering the prices of the Cruise may make X more affordable and compete with some of the other mass market cruiselines for additional guests, firstly, those who can now just afford to cruise with X will not be shelling out on all of the extras, and secondly, in cutting back on the standard cruising offer, you are in danger of losing your USP of a luxurious experience and potentially cutting out the new passengers that in the past have looked to 'trade up' to X for a higher quality experience.

The introduction of the suites only experience seems almost to be a subliminal recognition that the standard offer has now dropped so low as to be under threat of still being percieved as luxury of any kind, modern or otherwise, hence the need to find ways of still attracting the higher rollers.

As I look for my next cruise, I can see less and less difference between the X brand and the RC brand and probably worse still for RCCL revenues less difference between X and Carnival brands, Princess and P&O.:confused:

The suite dinng room is being created from a "newly created space" off the upper port side level of the MDR.

It will be interesting to see how they do this without impacting on the general appearance and experience of the MDR on the S class as the MDR was designed as a single space with those raking structural columns passing through both levels. It will look rather lopsided if they enclose one side on the upper level and if it it remains open it will be difficult to generate a small dining room atmosphere with a few screens and some different furniture/finishes . I suppose that they could minimise the effect of the new enclosure by retaining a gallery around the edge but the impact of this change ( gallery or not) will be a much less efficient use of MDR space and an almost certain reduction in space for either traditional or select dining spaces. The end result will be longer queues for select dining as either there will be more select passengers due to less traditional space or simply less select dining space. I doubt if a high proportion of the suite passengers used the MDR a lot to offset the loss of space. From these boards it sounds like they mostly use Blu. Blu may end up being less crowded but the MDR may suffer a further downgrade which will affect many more passengers.

It will be interesting to see the results of the first conversion so some posts on any knock on effects, or the quality of the new dining room would be much appreciated. Is it already operational on Equinox?

Hi everyone,

 

I was reading another thread about the Summit and someone mentioned that evening movies in the conference facilities have been cancelled. That's so disappointing for us movie lovers who are not big production show fans!

 

I have heard that Celebrity reads these boards, so I am hopeful they will hear my plea and bring them back ASAP, I am on the June 29 cruise to Bermuda and I was looking forward to some mommy time watching movies at night.

 

Thanks!

Cannot understand why movies are not used more by cruise lines as a group entertainment option. It's surely a lot cheaper than a stage production and they should be able to get a similar deal to airlines for showing up to date pictures. There are also the also the potential additional f&b sales. Popcorn, premium ice cream, sweets and snacks. The outdoor screens do not seem to be that popular in the daytime as they can be disturbing for those looking to sunbathe but using some of the indoor facilities that stay pretty empty during the day even on sea days would seem a cost efficient option if they could get decent size screens installed. And in the evening I am sure there would be a significant audience if the movies were of the right quality and currency. They could also provide big screen presentations of major sporting events like the World Cup or the Olympics, the Super Bowl etc etc. those would get the beer sales flowing.

I know that celebrity have a fairly good in cabin movie service but it's not comparable with watching on a big screen and maybe in 3D?

Maybe it's more RCCL than Celebrity but someone will be the first to install an IMAX 3d theatre, got to be better than that adapted piece of window cleaning equipment that they just installed on the new RCCL ships.

Gets my vote!

Not sure if this applies for the US or not but for uk passengers I believe that if you book through choice air it becomes an integral part of your holiday package. In UK therefore, that puts the onus on celebrity/choice air to deal with the consequences of any flight delays which is a big comfort on the way to the ship. We have only used them once and were able to book business class flights on BA from London to Rome. A three hour flight delay would have caused us huge concern as we were flying out on embarkation day but in the event the knowledge that the the ship was unlikely to leave without us or that if it did they would have to arrange for transport to the first port/overnight accommodation etc was worth the marginal increased cost over a direct booking of the flights through a T A or the airline. in the event we barely got to the ship on time and missed the emergency drill but the fact that the whole thing was in their hands and not ours reduced the stress enormously.

Have booked through choice air again this year for the same reason but hopefully lightening will not strike twice in the same place and this time we will have a completely stress free trip.

Unless there is a big price difference or you are in a position to fly out at least a day in advance I would recommend the choice air route to anyone from the UK.

Don't you know you pay for luxury? ;)

And for ' modern luxury" apparently you have to pay even more!!!!:)

Think this is generally an airline issue so hopefully you will be fine. Good luck and hope all goes well. Have a great first cruise.

Very often the queues are all about timing. We generally eat fairly late and so have only once had to wait for a table in Blue on Silhouette. I guess that earlier diners had been and gone and the waiters were able to reset by 8.30 when we generally turned up. Maybe early in the evening there is some stress to push people through and turn tables in order to create space. Shame if this is the case as all our experiences eating later in Blue have been very positive, friendly and relaxed. Having said that please do not all start eating later otherwise we will end up having to wait.